Tagged With "Scorekerping"
Topic
Scorekeeping question
Bases loaded no outs One hopper back to pitcher. Ball gets stuck in glove while trying to get out at home. No outs recorded Fielders Choice?? Hit??
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Re: Scorekeeping question
I would score that as a Fielder's Choice, E1. As described, it's not a hit. I am not a pro scorekeeper either, but keep (my own) book at most games I watch.
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Gungi07 posted: Bases loaded no outs One hopper back to pitcher. Ball gets stuck in glove while trying to get out at home. No outs recorded Fielders Choice?? Hit?? As always, without seeing the play, it’s very difficult to make an accurate evaluation. But going on what was given, here’s a try. Assuming the pitcher could have thrown to 1 st and put out the batter-runner, the batter-runner reaches on a fielder’s choice. Assuming the pitcher fielded the ball cleanly but couldn’t make the...
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Whether or not the run was earned can't be determined until the inning is reconstructed. FI, if the next 2 batters strike out looking, the run would be unearned. But if the next batter singles the run would be earned.
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I'm giving it an error and an earned run. With no outs, you can't assume a clean play on the lead runner. Reconstructed without the error, you assume the out at first and the run scoring on a 1-3 put out.
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Again, no way to know earned or unearned without more information. How did the runner on third get on base
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Yesterday, bottom of the 12th, O's had no outs and bases loaded. A chopper back to pitcher, he throws home, catcher throws to 3rd and the result is a double play. In a bases loaded situation, I don't think the pitcher throws to 1st and takes the run. In fact I think you attempt the throw home and try to prevent the run from scoring while risking the out. Not sure you can assume how the outs would have happened, only what did happen. The inning has to be reconstructed before you assign earned...
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Yeah, but I was just assuming that the runners on base were all on without error, otherwise the play has no affect whatsoever on the determination.
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The problem is that if you assume he could have cut the run down at the plate and therefore the run would not have scored if he makes the play, then the scorekeeper has to make a lot of decisions during the course of play that they just do not do. Let's say there are no outs and a runner at first. The ball is hit sharply back to F1 who bobbles it and then throws out the BR at first even though it appears he could have easily gotten the lead runner at second if he fielded it cleanly. R1 then...
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FC. No throw, no error. It's only a hit if the ball got literally stuck in the glove's webbing. Assume the pitcher made a throw to HP but they couldn't get the runner in time, the batter is safe on a FC.
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Agree...FC. Not much different than a grounder to short where SS is late with his throw to 2B attempting to get the force on the runner coming from 1B (runner maybe running on the pitch). No error, but no hit either. Without seeing the play, I'm assuming the P was rushing to get the ball out of his glove to get the throw home. Probably would have had a lot more time to get the ball out of the glove for a throw to 1B. P made a choice (FC) on what to do.
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Agreed on the FC call. However, still have to account for how the run scored. The batter reached on a FC. I think everyone agrees with that as the original post implied that the pitchers intention was to throw home. However, the run scored and was it earned or not? When there is a fielders choice and both runners are safe there is always a reason why. The fielder may attempt the throw, but it was late for example. That would not be considered an error. In this case though, the pitcher didn't...
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Doesn't matter. You don't consider his intention as to the base he would go to on a reconstruction - you assume he would have gone to first. That way a scorekeeper doesn't have to make that kind of determination. Even if you give an error, it's an earned run. You can never assume the fielder will go for the lead runner.
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Agree...earned run. Also, mental mistakes are never errors (no matter how egregious).
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Thanks everyone for feedback. Runners on all bases got there via hit or walk. The ball did actually get stuck in the pitchers glove/webbing.
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Comment section under Rule 10 on scoring: Rule 10.12(a)(1) Comment: Slow handling of the ball that does not involve mechanical misplay shall not be construed as an error. For example, the official scorer shall not charge a fielder with an error if such fielder fields a ground ball cleanly but does not throw to first base in time to retire the batter.
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Additionally. Rule 10.16: (a) The official scorer shall charge an earned run against a pitcher every time a runner reaches home base by the aid of safe hits, sacrifice bunts, a sacrifice fly, stolen bases, putouts, fielder’s choices, bases on balls, hit batters, balks or wild pitches (including a wild pitch on third strike that permits a batter to reach first base) before fielding chances have been offered to put out the offensive team. For the purpose of this rule, a defensive interference...
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Hmmmmm......whoever wrote this obviously was an IF...and not the pitcher whose ERA gets dinged when a guy scores from 3rd with 2 outs because the IF is too slow getting the ball to 1B
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I'd have to get more info on what was meant by "stuck in glove." If the ball literally became stuck in the webbing, then it's a slowly made play, which is not an error. It's also not an FC because an FC is scored only if the out could have been made at first but for the effort to go home. If the ball truly got stuck, then no out could've been made at first, either, which means it's a hit. I know that sounds weird but it's no less of a hit than when someone's bat breaks and the ball bloops...
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When an inning gets reconstructed, it starts with the 1 st batter and doesn’t conclude until the inning is over, and ERs aren’t determined until the inning is over. I don’t know how other scoring apps reconstruct an inning, but I wrote one and couldn’t do it because it was so complicated. That’s why I compute ERs manually after every game. Most of the time it’s pretty simple, but as the example in this thread shows, it can get complicated as well.
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That's certainly true, but in this case no reconstruction is needed because there shouldn't be an error recorded (assuming again that all three base runners were on without an error).
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Additionally, this is not always the case. For example. Single. Fly out. R1 goes to 3rd on an error throwing the ball back in. Single scores the run (can't determine er on first runner yet). Home run. Inning is still going but reconstruction doesn't need to wait until the inning is over - the run is earned.
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roothog66 posted: That's certainly true, but in this case no reconstruction is needed because there shouldn't be an error recorded (assuming again that all three base runners were on without an error). It’s your opinion no error should be scored. From what I’ve read, MHO is there should have been one. roothog66 posted: Additionally, this is not always the case. For example. Single. Fly out. R1 goes to 3rd on an error throwing the ball back in. Single scores the run (can't determine er on...
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Trust me, I've read the rules about errors more times than you can imagine. But I do have a suggestion for you. Get rid of your copy of OBR and download a new one. Rule 10 is no longer The Official Scorer's rule. It's 9 now.
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Sure, I know that. So, given Rule 9.12(a)(1) still how do you justify giving an error on the play, as presented - ball stuck in glove? That is certainly not a "mechanical misplay."As presented, the pitcher fielded the ground ball cleanly yet did throw to a base in time to retire a runner. Seems a pretty clear demonstration of the rule. Rule 9.12(a )(1) Comment: Slow handling of the ball that does not involve mechanical misplay shall not be construed as an error. For example, the official...
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roothog66 posted: Sure, I know that. So, given Rule 9.12(a)(1) still how do you justify giving an error on the play, as presented - ball stuck in glove? That is certainly not a "mechanical misplay."As presented, the pitcher fielded the ground ball cleanly yet did throw to a base in time to retire a runner. Seems a pretty clear demonstration of the rule. Rule 9.12(a )(1) Comment: Slow handling of the ball that does not involve mechanical misplay shall not be construed as an error. For...
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Question on a remotely similar play. Slow R1, line drive to CF who fields it cleanly on 1 bounce. Plenty of time to force out the slow R1 at 2nd, but CF just can't pull the ball out of his glove, but never drops it and ends up not making a throw. I scored it a hit, because it looked like a hit, but our coach wanted it scored an error on CF. How would you score that one?
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Even if he mishandled it I could never justify giving an outfielder an error based on a force play unless the runner continued to third.
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Hit for the ball to CF. Errors require a misplay from ordinary effort. Firing the ball from CF to 2B to get a force would be a nice play if made...but clearly not a play made with ordinary effort.