Tagged With "All-American"
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Re: POP Time, 1.88 good?
Catch and release is .8 seconds of pop time (good footwork and mechanics), means that the ball needs to travel the 127 ft going 86.6 mph to get to 2b in one second, making pop time of 1.8 seconds MPH to Feet per second is 86.6 Miles per Hour = 127.013333 Feet per Second s = d/t Pitcher to home of 1.4 added means you should throw out a runner that is timed 3.2 seconds from 1st to 2b or slower. I'm not a mathematician, there are variables in this (HS, College, Pros - all differ), but you get...
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Re: POP Time, 1.88 good?
MLb most guys arent throwing down on a blocked pitch if the runner was already going. They are already half way there. At the lower levels they are running on the play on the dirt so the typical equation is changed up. Runner is getting a late jump and hopefully the catcher is quick with his recovery and kept the ball close. In the big leagues you see balls squirt away 5-6 feet with no runner advancing. In HS thats enough to move up in most cases... I WILL readily agree that blocking isn't...
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Re: POP Time, 1.88 good?
As an aside, depending upon the situation, if a runner is going and the pitch is in the dirt the catcher may attempt to pick it rather then block it. i.e. the base is stolen whether its blocked or goes to the backstop so attempting a pick and throw is a viable option. Personally I feel 80 is a very workable speed for catchers at the D1 college level. I read a lot of discussion on arm speed, blocking, framing etc..,, in many ways its all meaningless if the player can't hit college pitching. A...
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Re: POP Time, 1.88 good?
2forU, you did make me chuckle with this post. I won't argue with your math. But... For arguments sake, you are using 3.2 seconds as your benchmark for running from 1st to 2nd. So the gist of your argument is that with the parameters you chose, a successful catcher has to have a velocity of 86.6 MPH...in your scenario. So how many baseball players can steal a base in 3.2 seconds? Billy Hamilton, arguably the fastest player in baseball, swipes the bag in a little over 3.1 seconds. So in your...
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Re: POP Time, 1.88 good?
Best argument yet for why higher velocity is better, but it still goes back to the "all else being equal" statement. If you're a catcher throwing 90, you have usually already been turned into a pitcher, especially if you can't hit. You'd be surprised at how many coaches want every pitch in the dirt to be blocked and will penalize catchers for picking rather than blocking.
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Re: POP Time, 1.88 good?
Well, this is turning into a fun discussion anyway. Regarding the OP velo aspect - Forget the numbers for a moment. Forget the pitcher combo because we are only talking about the OP's son's ability to attract college attention as it relates to his velo and POP time and ability to throw a runner out. I will offer up this simple observation... I have not seen a prospect get any attention as a catcher that has the arc on his throw that OP's son currently has. I have not seen a catcher at the...
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Re: POP Time, 1.88 good?
This "pick on a SB" topic is interesting in itself. I know there are coaches who are OK with the pick and, in certain circumstances, I am as well. But I think if that ball does go to the backstop, the runner lands on 3b sometimes instead of 2b (if he is given the heads up before the slide and depending on the depth of the backstop) so there is still added risk. I think it really comes down to instinct and reaction. If it is a true short-hop pick, the catcher will likely start his cheat and...
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Re: POP Time, 1.88 good?
I'll say this having watched the video: the kid is an interesting ballplayer who looks like he has potential. There is talent & athleticism there
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Re: POP Time, 1.88 good?
"You'd be surprised at how many coaches want every pitch in the dirt to be blocked and will penalize catchers for picking rather than blocking." To each his own level of understanding and/or comfort. There don't seem to be a lot of college or hs catching coaches that truly appreciate the need to develop a young catcher by allowing him to be aggressive with his throwing which in turns builds confidence, which in turns builds a lot of key outs rather then just letting the opposition take a...
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Re: POP Time, 1.88 good?
CPNM, I would argue that the percentages are better with the block than the pick but that goes back to which pitches the catcher attempts to pick. If C has a knack for recognizing depth properly and knowing his pitchers' movement, I'm with you. There is certainly some "chicken or the egg" to this.
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Re: POP Time, 1.88 good?
CURRYNC: I watched your son's video with my son, who is also a catcher. He immediately had several comments about the throw down portion to second base. First, he said that he hates those high feeds like the one in the video. As a catcher you have to choose the lesser of two evils, either you reach for the ball and keep your legs flexed or you come completely out of your crouch and lose the ability to quickly load the lower half, but you receive the pitch closer to your transfer point. My...
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Re: POP Time, 1.88 good?
Regarding pop time: if you upload it to the hudl app there is a time function, you can go throw in slow motion and get the time (need to subtract start from stop time).
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Re: POP Time, 1.88 good?
Regarding velo: it is probably most important but I know that coaches love a polished catcher, gives you more time to worry about other stuff. Velo is king but two guys with the same or similar velo and one can catch the coach will always prefer the catcher. So best is having both but of course if you don't have the velo technique wont save you either. But no reason to not work on both and make the coaches job easier.
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Re: POP Time, 1.88 good?
Interesting to see where this topic has evolved. As for picks vs. blocks, I'd say it is a continually moving fine line of when to do one or the other when runners are on. In GENERAL, I'm a fan of blocking, especially when it is hot and humid because tired catchers are more likely to keep the ball in front of them with a block than relying on an athletic pick (and that's when the balls seem to get to the backstop). Mistakes are still made on occasion by veteran catchers, and even a cleanly...
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Re: POP Time, 1.88 good?
Batty is 100% correct. I gripe at my son if he picks a ball that clearly should have been a block. There are some that are border line and he will pick those. But there are catchers who will back hand pick cause they cannot block or are being lazy. I remind my son he's a catcher, not a first baseman. And if he does pick it is almost always with empty bases. He typically blocks everything, even when no one is on base. Guess it's habit but it also looks good if someone is watching. As for...
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Re: POP Time, 1.88 good?
2forU, You've calculated AVERAGE velocity, not MAX velocity. Over a distance of 127 feet I would guess that velocity drops somewhere in the neighborhood of 15mph, so a throw averaging 86mph requires probably close to 95mph max velo. I don't think anyone, even Yadi gets this from a crouch. As an example, in some of Yadi's ~1.8s throws that I've seen broken down by Statcast, his exchange time (catch, transfer, footwork, release) is ~.65s or even better, allowing more time for ball in flight,...
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Re: POP Time, 1.88 good?
A ball traveling 79.4 MPH will travel 116.4533 feet in 1.1 second. Runner is safe unless the ball travels 86.6 MPH
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Re: POP Time, 1.88 good?
No bench mark, just an example. The quicker you get rid of the ball, the slower you can throw it, simple math. But a throw from home to second is still 127 ft. A ball needs to travel at 86.6 MPH to go 127 ft in one second. So a faster catch and release means he can throw slower, but the ball wont travel 127 feet in one second or 1.1 seconds. A ball thrown at 79.4 MPH only travels 116.453333 feet in 1.1 seconds. It will take 1.599 (1.6) seconds to go 127 feet, add 1.3 and .7 and your complete...
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Re: POP Time, 1.88 good?
Well, my math skills don't include gravity. That is where I draw the line - lol. I'm sure that is someone way better at math than I am.
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Re: POP Time, 1.88 good?
My point is that a catcher getting a ball down to 2nd base with flight time of 1.2s is really good and will result in a 1.9ish pop time if the other mechanics are good, and this would be an average velo of low 70s, and a max velo in the high 70s. A lot of people don't understand that throwing from the crouch makes it very difficult to get the kind of velo numbers you see off the mound or across the infield or outfield, and even the most elite studs are hitting max velos of low to mid 80s. I...
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Re: POP Time, 1.88 good?
If you go to the perfectgame homepage, on the bottom left there is a showcase leaderboard for each class. Max C velocity by Grad year: 2017: 88 2018: 86 2019:82 2020:77 Looking back at history, a couple of hit 90+. Seeing the progression by age, I guess you can assume they will get a little faster in college. So yes, 88-90 happens every year, but at least for PG showcases, you can still have a top 20 C velo with low-mid 80's.
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Re: POP Time, 1.88 good?
I don't think any catcher can throw 86 on average. you easily would need to be 92 at release which would equal to at least upper 90s from the mound. last year the hardest throw by a catcher was gary sanchez at 88.9 AT RELEASE which probably means an arrive velo of 69 MPH (pitcher loses 10 MPH to home so it should be about twice due to the double distance). that means his throw averaged at best 80 mph. I doubt anyone can make the throw in 1 second flat. this article here from 2012 claimed 83...
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Re: POP Time, 1.88 good?
Just a thought about PG and their "historical" Numbers. You need to look at sampling size too. 2017 will have a much larger sampling size than 2018...2018 than 2019 and so on. 2020 probably has only a handful of athletes listed and the reason a 2020 is already on their board is cause he is the best around. What my point is, my hypothesis is 2017 numbers are made up of more "averages" then a 2020. This make sense or am I way off!!?? My 2020 threw off a mound and he's 5'8 and 135 (listed him...
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Re: POP Time, 1.88 good?
Kevin, You are right about the sample sizes, but the velo range of the top 20 or so stays consistent year after year. I was just pointing out that both the above points were correct. Some people can indeed hit 90, but for the most part if you are low to mid 80's, you would still be in the top 20 of PG, which is good enough to get a look from coaches if you are doing everything else right. And keeping a catching thread alive for 3 days is pretty cool as well...
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Re: POP Time, 1.88 good?
lol- I soak up what ever I can on catchers...LOL... I was checking out some of the guys bio's who done 2017 show cases but are 2020 grads...Its throwing and hitting. Not a single remark that a catcher has or doesn't have polished receiving skills....
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Re: POP Time, 1.88 good?
@ CabbageDad, CPNM, Batty67, KevinA, et al: I think someone on this thread wrote that any player who wants to play catcher has to be a little "off" in the first place. I agree with that assessment. It's a physically and mentally grueling position to play. It also is a position that tends to be really hard on the body. Anyone who has blocked an 80+ MPH fastball knows that it can hurt like hell. Blocking pitches in the dirt is a skill that successful catchers must master, that's a given.
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Re: POP Time, 1.88 good?
Yup, nice post JDB. Of course. the problem is "a little off" and "situationally aware" don't always match up.
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Re: POP Time, 1.88 good?
Ok 2forU, I think that others have already addressed this, so I'll be brief. I also acknowledge that these are averages not initial velocities, so they aren't perfectly equivalent to real world velocities. They do show how required velocities decrease as upstream processes get faster. You said, "A ball traveling 79.4 MPH will travel 116.4533 feet in 1.1 second. Runner is safe unless the ball travels 86.6 MPH." - and "Well, my math skills don't include gravity. That is where I draw the line -...
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Re: POP Time, 1.88 good?
Any thread where people debate math when the point is to improve an argument lose their way, in general. Yes, a good catcher knows when to block and when to pick. On a beautiful day with defense making outs and pitching rarely putting one in the dirt, it might complete sense for the catcher to try and block virtually everything (since there is not much and that's good form). On a hot and humid day, a long day with extra outs due to errors, and/or lots of balls in the dirt, a good catcher...
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Re: POP Time, 1.88 good?
"Any thread where people debate math when the point is to improve an argument lose their way, in general." Point taken, and yes I did feel like I lost my way. I will redirect in the future, hopefully. My apologies to you too, CURRYNC.
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Re: POP Time, 1.88 good?
Yeah, that's probably why I always got B's in math. Thanks for the correction. Velocity is king, I will not change that!
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Re: POP Time, 1.88 good?
I found this from 2011 on HSBBW: Credit to Catching101 If a player has a release time of .70 and they throw the ball 75mph their pop time would be 1.85. The distance from the back point of home plate to the middle of 2B is 127.28ft (or 90*the square root of 2 for you geometry guys!). When the ball is thrown 75mph it is traveling 110fps (feet per second), which means it would travel the 127.28ft in 1.157s. So...if a player has a release of .7s and is throwing 75mph, the ball will get there in...
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Re: POP Time, 1.88 good?
Thanks to all for helping prove my point - Velo is king. I think Ironhorse is correct. Max velo at 90 is where you need to be or upper 80's so that your average ball speed combined with release provides decent pop time. By the time the ball slows down at 2b, your velo average is in the 70's (please insert something here on how fast the ball slows down or the faster you throw it the less it slows down - I'm sure there is more to it). Quicker release means you can have a lower max and average.
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Re: American Legion Ball
Some coaches swap out players every 3 innings and or have one kid start game 1 go 3-4 innings then swap him out. Game 2 have the second kid start then swap him out with kid 1 after 3-4 innings. This way both kids get to play the only difference is who gets to start. You may also take into account the team you're playing. I'd want the stronger kid against the stronger team. The dh role is also available. Kid 1 can dh for the pitcher the entire game. On game 2, kid 2 then dhs the entire game...
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Re: POP Time, 1.88 good?
I haven't been able to find a single HS catcher in PG database that hit 90. Austin Hedges hit 85 with a 1.75 pop, that's the best I've seen. Maybe they are there but I think it is WAY overstating it to say that 90 is where you need to be.
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Re: American Legion Ball
MACSDAD; Do you live near Cooperstown? How many of your players work? Can you use the "double" DH? How many left hand hitters? In my 6 years of coaching the Legion team in N-California, we had similar situation. Every player later played at a strong college program &/or in pro baseball. Bob
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Re: American Legion Ball
On a legion team this problem will partially take care of itself, as family vacations, jobs, girls, etc. limit the number of players who show up for each game.
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Re: American Legion Ball
When I played Legion the coach schedule extra games against teams in other zones. We played 28 regular season games and about 14 non conference games before the post season. The non conference games kept everyone ready to contribute when it mattered.
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Re: Senior All-Academic Tryout / Arizona Fall Classic
I would attend the event and explain the circumstances to anybody that expressed interest. IMO he really isn’t committed.
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Re: Senior All-Academic Tryout / Arizona Fall Classic
Same thought... actually, I never fully understood the idea of committing to a D3 school where you are not academically accepted yet. The wise advice always given here is to keep the foot on the pedal until there is a reasonable level of certainty (even then, keep doors and communication lines open). Your description of his status is far from that... "... this is one of those schools that does not have "slots" for athletes. He has to get past admissions, and the school is extremely...
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Re: Senior All-Academic Tryout / Arizona Fall Classic
Cabbage Dad just my 2cents but here goes just 1 reason to "commit" -- if a player has multiple offers of admission support for a D3 (even those very few elite hA without slots), they can only ED to one school (true for any ED school whether D1 or D3). You can apply internationally, to military academies I believe and also to state universities. So once the player opts to apply ED to their top choice, they let the other schools know they have made a choice and those other offers tend to go...
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Re: Senior All-Academic Tryout / Arizona Fall Classic
I'm mostly inline with 2Boys, but I can see a tiny bit of wiggle room. First of all you have to apply for the All Academic game tryout, and to submit that with incorrect info would not be an honest choice or fair to other applicants. To Adbono's point, a commitment to a D3 college _is_ a commitment, once the ED app is in. You're signing a contract that says you will attend that school if admitted (absent some limited mitigation circumstances.) But that said, if ED app is not in, and taking...
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Re: Senior All-Academic Tryout / Arizona Fall Classic
Thanks guys, very informative. I learned some things. Still, it seems that this player is not yet to the point where it wouldn't make sense to keep opening doors as backup. And, I'm not sure why the coach at school A would be upset if the acceptance is far from a sure thing.
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Re: Senior All-Academic Tryout / Arizona Fall Classic
We use the word "committed" for D3 recruiting but I don't think the players are committed until the school officially accepts them when their ED decisions go out in Dec. Submitting an application ED does not mean the student/player has to withdraw all other applications - that does not have to happen until they are accepted by their ED school (I googled just to be sure). Non-baseball playing students are allowed to submit applications to additional schools as back-up in case they are not...
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Re: Senior All-Academic Tryout / Arizona Fall Classic
What would be the point of going and communicating with new schools? To let them know you'd love for them to be a backup option? If he doesn't get in he can always apply to other schools, explain the situation and show up the first day of tryouts. If you're good enough they'll keep you, they don't have scholarship guys to account for. Recruiting means the least at the D3 level, your game determines your role, not so much the commitment you made. That being said, unless travel and all that is...
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Re: Senior All-Academic Tryout / Arizona Fall Classic
I am again probably showing my relative ignorance with D3 as I certainly have more direct experience with the other levels. Still, I have had a fair number of players from our program end up going D3. Most of those players still considered baseball to be a very big part of the equation. Again, the OP says acceptance is far from a sure thing. With recruiting at other levels, coaches generally would be more than happy to take a drop down should things not work out at the player's first choice.
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Re: Senior All-Academic Tryout / Arizona Fall Classic
So the real question is, did your son have more options before he committed to this one school for ED? And if so, what were those options? With extremely selective schools, ED is almost a necessity for admission (and even then doesn't always work); so, backups need either to be schools with ED2 where coaches can give support, or schools where he could be admitted RD without official coach support. Only you know if such schools are out there. At that point it will depend on how good his...
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Re: Senior All-Academic Tryout / Arizona Fall Classic
Keep your foot on the gas. Did your son go the classic and academic game as a junior? Then you know that that tryout is a meat market, and the senior event may be even more crowded. If you're worried about your son being accepted ED, then go. A coach at a school with no slots will understand your concern. I'd also let other coaches know your kid is gonna be there. Maybe he lights it up and some other school he actually likes takes a shine to him and piques his interest. People have the right...
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Re: Senior All-Academic Tryout / Arizona Fall Classic
You've submitted a pre-read in good faith. Your son will be submitting an ED application in good faith, yet there are no guarantees by admissions or the coach your son will be admitted. The risk is all on your son, and for this reason I would attend the showcase for the purposes of possible RD application to another school. You are dealing with a process where the outcomes are not always positive. My son kept in communication with some schools after he committed and applied ED to a D1 HA...
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Re: Senior All-Academic Tryout / Arizona Fall Classic
I think it is better to keep all options open , as you never know what can transpire. Especially if you are close to the event. It is a cool event. We had "almost" commited last year at this time but still went. My son wanted to keep his options open. He made the academic game(pitcher) last year after being extremely dissapointed as a junior and not making it. If you make the all academic game there are a lot of HA D3 schools as well as D2 and many D1. We had a lot of contacts at the event...