13U/14U "All-Star Events"/Showcases

You're not showcasing unless a kid is demonstrating college/pro level potential and there's someone there who matters to see it. It's kind of like does the falling tree in the forest make a noise ... Coaches and scouts attend elite 16u and 17/18u events. 

If you want your son to get some experience in a showcase style event find an inexpensive one day college camp run like a showcase (sixty time, throwing short to first and right to third, BP from a short distance, bullpens and a scrimmage. My son once did one nine years ago for $125.

Agree w RJM. How much is it costing to attend these 2 events out of state?  Better to go to one locally for experience, esp at his age. Many are "invited" to these things, it's a business.  

playball2011 posted:

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Agree w RJM. How much is it costing to attend these 2 events out of state?  Better to go to one locally for experience, esp at his age. Many are "invited" to these things, it's a business.  

One of them is in-state for us, no hotel costs and certainly not much excessive cost at all.  The other one we're treating like a 1/2 Baseball Trip, 1/2 family vacation.  Site-seeing, camping out along the way etc....

I don't know of the specific events that you mentioned, but they sound more like tournaments than showcases.

Looking ahead a few years, to 15U in 2018, would it make sense to play in as many Perfect Game Tournaments as we can?  Thinking in terms of experience vs Top Flight competition as well as exposure

When you say "Midwest", what state?  You have to decide based on your team level, tournament level.  Son is playing 15U tournaments in Texas/Louisiana.  There are some very good teams in them, and some very average teams.  Not sure what pond you are fishing in, but here is the link for my son's summer schedule.  http://www.houstonathleticsbas...om/#!15u--2018/c179h   It's mainly Texas, OK and La Schools looking at the kids.  Look up V-Tool showcase http://vtoolshowcase.com/about  Look at some of their tournaments.  Contact them via twitter to get someone to talk to that runs it if curious about next/following years.

15's don't get much of a look, but V-tool scouts the kids, builds profiles/scouting reports on them and contacts coaches.  Tournament runs up to 17U.  Don't let the showcase word fool you, they do gun the kids while pitching, but they don't run 60's. etc.  It's a tournament.

We played a V-Tool this past weekend.  Competition was very good.  Our team is an "average" team.  Did see a few mid 80's velocity kids, most closer to 78 - 80 or "non-pitchers" filling in innings.

Go44dad posted:

When you say "Midwest", what state?  

Wisconsin/Illinois.  Currently playing Majors travel in those states but looking to put together a roster by 2018 that can play National Tournaments like Perfect Game.

3and2Fastball posted:

Go44dad posted:

When you say "Midwest", what state?  

Wisconsin/Illinois.  Currently playing Majors travel in those states but looking to put together a roster by 2018 that can play National Tournaments like Perfect Game.

When i created a 13u team i thought about the possibility of the team ultimately being a 17/18u showcase team. We had four very experienced coaches. But as the kids got older I thought, "How many contacts do I have in college ball?" Plus the talent on the team developed to be anything from D1 to D3. As my son started being contacted by showcase programs it didn't make any sense to me for him (and any of the other players) to be in anything less than the best situation.

When it comes to college/pro exposure the coaches and scouts gravitate to the known programs. Those coaches with the contacts and credibility often make pre tournament calls to herd in coaches for specific players. An unknown team can end up on a back field with no one watching.

To add what others mentioned,

After son played on the big field for several years, he switched teams.  If your son aspires to play in college, you want him to play on the best team he can, and still get playing time.  Hopefully, a team coached by someone other than a players dad, whose organization has college contacts.  

As for making your baseball/vacation experience a 50/50 trip, try to do this every chance you get.  Over the next several years you may head to different parts of the county, so see (and eat!) as much as you can.  We do this even now when we travel to watch college ball.   

I very much appreciate the replies.  2018 team would be 15U, getting a taste of national competition and Perfect Game competition, being challenged by great teams, getting very good experience.   There are a few established Showcase teams that I would get kids on, absolutely, for 16U/17U..... in total agreement there

Sounds like everyone is in agreement with me that 13U & 14U doesn't matter in terms of scouts, so play those seasons in terms of fun & get the best experience vs good competition you can to help prepare for High School ball?   Same with 15U? (i.e. scouts don't really follow 15U tournaments?  Even Perfect Game tournaments)

My goodness, forget about "scouts" until your son makes the HS Varsity team! Have fun, play multiple sports and once he gets to be a HS Jr then you can start to worry about the next level. 

3and2Fastball posted:

I 

Sounds like everyone is in agreement with me that 13U & 14U doesn't matter in terms of scouts, so play those seasons in terms of fun & get the best experience vs good competition you can to help prepare for High School ball?   Same with 15U? (i.e. scouts don't really follow 15U tournaments?  Even Perfect Game tournaments)

FWIW - Colleges were at some of keewartson's 15u games at PG WWBA (at the time in East Cobb, GA).   I think some college coaches hang around for 3+ weeks down there.....  

My son's been playing 15U this summer.  Recruiting coordinators don't come to 15U games, sit down and watch to evaluate all the players.  But 15U org coaches of the top teams with the best players will talk to RC's and say I got a player who projects, and he is pitching/playing Thursday's game.  That pitcher/player might get a look.  The relationship and trust has to be their between the coach and the RC.  Coach has to be able to evaluate his own talent and understand what particular RC's are looking for.

Also, PG, V-Tool, PBR and other scout tournaments are go betweens the RC's, coaches and players.  They are watching, recording, writing profiles on the kids.  And they are pretty good at recognizing talent.

3and2fastball, there is member on here called 2020dad, he is from your neck of the woods.  If you are looking for advice on local travel ball teams he can likely help.

I am the mom of a 2020 and I live in GA, less than 5 miles from East Cobb, less than 30 minutes from PG at Lakepoint and can guarantee you that 13/14u doesn't matter in the long run.  These super duper tourneys can be fun but I would HIGHLY recommend that be the height of your expectations.  Two 9th graders last year from my son's high school played on one of the local super duper teams and they decided they would do a showcase at Lakepoint since it was local.  While both of those boys were very high level 9th graders they could not hold a candle to grown men of 16/17/18!  Their PG grades were 7.0 and 7.5....why...because a 9th grader just couldn't compete at the arm speed and athleticism of a 17u elite player. 

I look at it like this, my kid will go to a showcase when he has $600 worth of something to show.  Maybe he will pitch 90+, maybe he will excel at hitting 90+, maybe he will become Flash Gorden fast....if he has a $600 skill I will take him.  If he doesn't have a $600 skill I'm sticking to local camps if he still wants to play baseball after high school.  I would, however, always encourage playing at PG events, not for any sightings just because they are usually pretty good competition with great facilities.

I was going to PM you this, but as some others have brought up, here are a few things to think about…

 Playing in the right baseball organization is probably the biggest determining factor to recruiting exposure. It almost sounds to me like you are trying to put together a team and then play in the proper events to get them exposure. From experience I can tell you that you have a steep hill to climb. In my opinion you would be better served getting involved in a program in your area that is geared to getting the kids the college exposure rather then trying to do it yourself. There are many good programs out there that play in high end tourneys every year but these are teams built to win tourneys not get kids college exposure. The true exposure programs probably are not playing in the run of the mill tourneys. The good programs have a deep network of college recruiting coaches they have cultivated over the years and either know what events they are going to be at or will develop events for these guys. In your area I would take a look at a program like "The Hitters". I’m not sure how far away from your area they practice, but they are part of an organization (Chicago Scouts Association) and the older kids play in events setup by CSA. These events attract many college guys. Starting after my sons Soph. year in HS we would see as many at 10 to 15 college guys watching his games each weekend in these events. These events were closed to normal run of the mill travel teams. They are only for teams involved with CSA. For the most part CSA is an invite only organization, so getting involved with them will not happen for independent travel teams. 

You can also take a look at PT Spiders, but I think they recently changed their name and program and I am not sure how much exposure they are able to get the kids.  There are others on here from your area.  If you ask questions specifically about programs in your area I am sure they can offer some advice.

 I would also caution you about the event types you are choosing to attend. The majority of the tourneys that market themselves as exposure or showcase events wont expose your son to anything more then the sun. I know of an organization here that runs tourneys with names like “Northern Illinois Exposure tourney” or something similar. They have events almost every weekend and rent out college fields for the kids to play on.   I have yet to see one college guy, who matters, watching a game at any of their events. You may see a “coach” from the school whose fields they are using watching the game for a few minutes. This is normally out of boredom rather then interest. These guys are grad assistances who are volunteering their time to help coach within the college program. The school throws them a bone by allowing them to rake and water the fields between games. For that they are getting paid through the tourney fees.   Most of these guys were playing for the college last year and are not true program coaches. In general they disappear into the press box or locker room while the games are being played. If they are watching its because they are bored sitting in the press box or locker room.

Another thing to watch out for are the organizations putting on showcase events. Some of these are actually legit but others will record the data and place it in a database. The hope is that at some point some college guy will search the database and become interested in a kid. Unless this organization is one of about 3 or 4 national organizations (PG, PBR, Headfirst) the odds of someone discovering a prospect from these showcases is slim. If your son wants to go to a true showcase for the experience and the measurable then I would suggest going, but don’t expect anything to come out of it.

Finally, as others have mentioned 13U is really too young to be showcasing. Heck 15U is too young unless you are a lefty throwing 88 with lots of ball movement.   My son plays in a program that plays in events like I mentioned above. The way they break down their showcases and events, the Sr’s showcase first, followed by Jr’s, Soph’s and then Frosh and “everyone else”.   All college guys watch the Sr’s and Jr’s. They are mostly interested in the Jr’s. After that the college coaching heard thins by about 75% for the Soph’s and then thins again down to maybe 1 or 2 small college guys for the frosh.   Those that stick around for the Soph’s and Frosh putting much put everything away except the clipboards. They may take a few notes, but not much in the way of radar guns or timing.

Not sure how much help I can be....  But I am pretty familiar with the program's up here. If you are Wisconsin/Illinois border area I am sure you are familiar with our rivals the Hitters. You are talking about 'forming' a team. I guess my first question is why?  With so many good travel organizations who place kids in college and get kids drafted I would stick with them. Of course expense is an issue. We (Stiks) are as we speak building a new facility and moving to waukesha so also not far if you are on the border. Both organizations had kids drafted this year and place nearly all their 'graduates' in a college program at some level. In Illinois of course there are many good programs. At 15 from my observations there are still not a ton of scouts because generally once you reach the high school years the best 15yo's play 16 or 17. So while in some ways 15 can be the hardest team to make as the funnel narrows it still doesn't have the 'big time' players. Not always the case of course but there is a pattern. I would have loved to have gone to Lakepoint this year. Not for scouts but for the experience. We are 14u this year.  So my son is one year ahead of yours. By the way if he's really good we could use him!  As for showcases, not sure how much good they do at this age. Know some who showcased, put up good numbers and have received very little attention.  I don't think they care if you throw 83 as a freshman.  Still waiting to see if you throw say 88 as a junior.  Now there are exceptions of course. We have in our town the number three ranked prospect in the nation for the class of 2018. I think he has been getting attention since he was 2 (slight hyperbole).  But you have to be truly great to get that early recruitment.  One thing I am definitely with the old timers about is my son won't showcase until he has something to showcase.  If you don't think his numbers will bring immediate recruitment why would you spend the money?  If you want to know how he stacks up just look at PBR or PG numbers for others in his class. But caution about looking at these young kids on PBR, almost all the great 14's I know have NOT done these early showcases.  So you won't have a fair comparison anyway. and as always all he can do anyway is be the best him he can be. Sorry for the long post. If you want to get more specific regarding baseball in our area and are uncomfortable putting it out there feel free to PM. 

Caco - I think we have a prospect for our little world!

3and2Fastball posted:

I very much appreciate the replies.  2018 team would be 15U, getting a taste of national competition and Perfect Game competition, being challenged by great teams, getting very good experience.   There are a few established Showcase teams that I would get kids on, absolutely, for 16U/17U..... in total agreement there

Sounds like everyone is in agreement with me that 13U & 14U doesn't matter in terms of scouts, so play those seasons in terms of fun & get the best experience vs good competition you can to help prepare for High School ball?   Same with 15U? (i.e. scouts don't really follow 15U tournaments?  Even Perfect Game tournaments)

See my earlier post.  I am replying directly to this post as well.  I would strongly suggest you take a look at getting your son on one of the exposure programs now rather then at 16/17U.  Many of these programs will have very few open positions by the time your son gets to 16/17U.  Yes they will bring him on if he is a total stud.  But even if he is a better then average player, but not a stud, they may not have room for him by the time he reaches that age.

2020dad posted:

Not sure how much help I can be....  But I am pretty familiar with the program's up here. If you are Wisconsin/Illinois border area I am sure you are familiar with our rivals the Hitters. You are talking about 'forming' a team. I guess my first question is why?  With so many good travel organizations who place kids in college and get kids drafted I would stick with them. Of course expense is an issue. We (Stiks) are as we speak building a new facility and moving to waukesha so also not far if you are on the border. Both organizations had kids drafted this year and place nearly all their 'graduates' in a college program at some level. In Illinois of course there are many good programs. At 15 from my observations there are still not a ton of scouts because generally once you reach the high school years the best 15yo's play 16 or 17. So while in some ways 15 can be the hardest team to make as the funnel narrows it still doesn't have the 'big time' players. Not always the case of course but there is a pattern. I would have loved to have gone to Lakepoint this year. Not for scouts but for the experience. We are 14u this year.  So my son is one year ahead of yours. By the way if he's really good we could use him!  As for showcases, not sure how much good they do at this age. Know some who showcased, put up good numbers and have received very little attention.  I don't think they care if you throw 83 as a freshman.  Still waiting to see if you throw say 88 as a junior.  Now there are exceptions of course. We have in our town the number three ranked prospect in the nation for the class of 2018. I think he has been getting attention since he was 2 (slight hyperbole).  But you have to be truly great to get that early recruitment.  One thing I am definitely with the old timers about is my son won't showcase until he has something to showcase.  If you don't think his numbers will bring immediate recruitment why would you spend the money?  If you want to know how he stacks up just look at PBR or PG numbers for others in his class. But caution about looking at these young kids on PBR, almost all the great 14's I know have NOT done these early showcases.  So you won't have a fair comparison anyway. and as always all he can do anyway is be the best him he can be. Sorry for the long post. If you want to get more specific regarding baseball in our area and are uncomfortable putting it out there feel free to PM. 

Caco - I think we have a prospect for our little world!

Wow, almost the exact same advice posted at the same time.  

3 & 2 , I am going to highly echo some advice from above.Sounds like I could live down the street from you.I am in your area of the midwest.maybe know each other.DO NOT wait to get your guy to what you feel is the best place at THIS summers tryouts.Unless your guy is the next sanburg/mantle waiting will only slow things or even hurt your son by loosing a yr. or two. Here in our area this is the summer (8th grade summer) that the best/better kids make the jump. After that its tpical that only pitchers (generally) can move on without missing too many beats.If you would like to PM me feel free.

"Showcase" events, or whatever the promoters call them, at this age are the most asinine thing I have ever heard.  It is a total scam and waste of your money as it relates to recruiting.  It is a pure money making venture.

redbird5 posted:

"Showcase" events, or whatever the promoters call them, at this age are the most asinine thing I have ever heard.  It is a total scam and waste of your money as it relates to recruiting.  It is a pure money making venture.

My 14 yo son just played in a 15U V-Tool Showcase.  And it was great.  Very well run. A very competitive tournament.  It was certainly to make money for V-Tool, it was not a scam and it was not a waste of my money.

Just be sure what you are buying.  I think the definition of "showcase" has changed over time.

Go44dad posted:

redbird5 posted:

"Showcase" events, or whatever the promoters call them, at this age are the most asinine thing I have ever heard.  It is a total scam and waste of your money as it relates to recruiting.  It is a pure money making venture.

My 14 yo son just played in a 15U V-Tool Showcase.  And it was great.  Very well run. A very competitive tournament.  It was certainly to make money for V-Tool, it was not a scam and it was not a waste of my money.

Just be sure what you are buying.  I think the definition of "showcase" has changed over time.

A showcase is an event where players can showcase their ability in front of college coaches and pro scouts.  It can be in the format of a tourney or a pro style workout.  The definition hasn't changed over time, except that people buying want to feel like their kid is being evaluated by college coaches. Just because someone looking to make money calls a tournament a "showcase" does not make it one.

redbird5 posted:

Go44dad posted:

redbird5 posted:

"Showcase" events, or whatever the promoters call them, at this age are the most asinine thing I have ever heard.  It is a total scam and waste of your money as it relates to recruiting.  It is a pure money making venture.

My 14 yo son just played in a 15U V-Tool Showcase.  And it was great.  Very well run. A very competitive tournament.  It was certainly to make money for V-Tool, it was not a scam and it was not a waste of my money.

Just be sure what you are buying.  I think the definition of "showcase" has changed over time.

A showcase is an event where players can showcase their ability in front of college coaches and pro scouts.  It can be in the format of a tourney or a pro style workout.  The definition hasn't changed over time, except that people buying want to feel like their kid is being evaluated by college coaches. Just because someone looking to make money calls a tournament a "showcase" does not make it one.

redbird, I think we are in agreement.  My message is just be sure what you are buying, despite the vernacular attached to it.

Thanks very much, again, everyone, for the replies.....  my kid is in one of the Majors organizations that you have mentioned.  He's not in Hitters, though we are very familiar with Hitters, especially as both Gavin Lux (1st Round this year) and Ben Rortvedt (2nd Round this year) both got drafted out of that program this year.....

My thought with playing Perfect Game events in East Cobb & Ft Meyers at 15U is that nobody else around here plays those events at that age (unless they are "playing up" at the 16U/17U level).   It would all be about challenging the kids with the best possible competition we can find for them.   While the point is well made that the very best 15U kids in the country aren't playing 15U, it still would be incredibly great experience for 15U kids who are just finishing their freshman or sophomore years of high school to spend that summer playing some of the best competition in the country.  The experience of seeing that level of pitching all summer would certainly make it easier to hit Varsity Pitching in WI & IL the next year!

In terms of jeopardizing chances to make a 16U/17U Showcase team, I don't know if that is accurate.  If you are a true D1 Talent, one or many of those organizations will have a spot.  I don't think those organizations run on nepotism, they didn't get where they are by that kind of practice.  And if you aren't a legit D1 talent it is somewhat questionable whether the top Showcase Organizations are the best for you in those years.....  

Hmmmm...  Joes87 only mentioned two organizations and I mentioned two. And you said you are not hitters...  That means you are either a STiKS brethren or you should run very fast to another organization if you are currently with the other one!  Won't get into that publicly but if you like to PM feel free.  

P.S. Joes, that spiders team blew up and is no longer all the same kids. But they were very very good. Only truly good team in that organization though. And don't you be leaving out our STiKS again or we will have to come down there and put a whoopin on your suburban teams!

2020dad posted:

P.S. Joes, that spiders team blew up and is no longer all the same kids. But they were very very good. Only truly good team in that organization though. And don't you be leaving out our STiKS again or we will have to come down there and put a whoopin on your suburban teams!

Figured something was up with Spiders, as I googled them and saw a name change and some other odd looking info on the internet.  

For the life of me I could not remember the name of your program.  Hence the reference to someone else from your area should be able to suggest teams comment.  I come to you on bended knees asking your forgiveness for this grievous mistake.

Our team made the jump from 14u to 16u when the kids were all fifteen (post freshman year). We played in local USSSA tournaments. That fall we played some local 17u wood bat tournaments. It was plenty to get kids ready for varsity ball. It also gave the kids earlier exposure for 17/18u showcase teams to start recruiting.

joes87 posted:

2020dad posted:

P.S. Joes, that spiders team blew up and is no longer all the same kids. But they were very very good. Only truly good team in that organization though. And don't you be leaving out our STiKS again or we will have to come down there and put a whoopin on your suburban teams!

Figured something was up with Spiders, as I googled them and saw a name change and some other odd looking info on the internet.  

For the life of me I could not remember the name of your program.  Hence the reference to someone else from your area should be able to suggest teams comment.  I come to you on bended knees asking your forgiveness for this grievous mistake.

Lol. Ok just this once!