13U pitcher

He actually looks pretty good, I wouldnt change anything at this point. your camera is a frame or two behind to get the actualseparation. you need to freeze it precisely at the point when their is maximum separation. this frame is obviously a frame or two after that maximum separation. i was able to freeze it just before and the separation is spot on. His big plus going for him is that his arm and hip timing is spot on. A future flamethrower there if you just be careful to not to go changing his mechanics.

Thanks Skylark.

 

This is a slo mo of the video...made it much easier for me to see things.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7KxuHD0n6c4

I try not to watch the front shoulder but where the relation of the hips are with the throwing arm and shoulder. Some pitchers place their front shoulder differently than others naturally. Whats important is how much separation between hips and rear pitching side shoulder and arm. Generally- if arm and ball is up and behind head at front foot contact then you have excellent timing and separation. Problems arise when that timing is off and you either have early- arm and ball already on the third base side coming through at initial front foot contact, or late- ball is still down and trying to come up in high cockrd position when front foot contact is made. This latter (late cockinng) is commonly associated with elbow issues.

One more comparison, at external rotation.  I think this is close to the right frame:

 

 

 IMO, to me he doesn't look any different (at the place he is in his delivery) than many pitchers. I don't see the delivery being the same, but he has really nice stuff for a young pitcher and agree with skylark, don't mess with him.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kKc2w7JbgWY

I see one other thing in that he has great front leg position and bend. This will help in having good follow through. The best thing you can do for your kid at this point is teach him everything about how to protect his arm and that he has the ultimate say on when and how much he's going to pitch. Teach him what normal pain is in pitching arm and what is not normal. Get him to recognize that and know it. I see lots of good things in your kid but your biggest risk as he gets older and matures is the all too common case of overuse. Most of the little things that most pitchers struggle with and need help with your kid already does good. As he gets older and muscles mature he will definitely pitch very well with good velocity. My own kid took so much bad advice several years ago that we went to a camp and one of the best evaluators in our state watched him and gave simple advice"don't change a thing, a few more years and he will be a great pitcher, do everything to protect his arm".  We have lived by that advice for the last three years taking every precaution to protect his arm and let his talent develop on its own. I expect nothing but good results from your kid as he gets older. Just dont change nothing at this point, let it develop on its own.

Skylark,
What bad advice?   I thought that you have always been his advocate? 
How is your sons season coming along?

He got a lot of bad advice from little league coaches, parents, local. We went to that camp to ensure we were on track. we have only got 2 games in so far because of snow- slow start so far...He started opening day for varsity, was a little rusty in his 2 innings of work but his velocity looked like midseason already so he is excited. His goal by fall is to be in the 86-87 range.

Skylark, how old is your son?

He is a junior in hs

mcloven.

 #1.Get on Top Velocity.net

Pitching analysis.

 #2.pitching velocity and the first move, listed on the same site.

If you want to you can send in to Brent some video footage of your son and can also receive one free excellent pitching analysis, plus you can also scroll through a bundle of very helpful, free, non opinionated information.what you will learn is based on scientific research about what proper pitching mechanics are and how they should be executed, which are in a series of sequenced, chain reactive movements.

It is too late right now for me to go into detail concerning what the proper pitching mechanics are.

He has blogs, forums with question  and answer segments.

Don Ervin

dfervin32@yahoo.com

 

mcloven,

 

You've obviously done a lot of things right to get him to this point.  I'm surprised that you're using "The Freak" as your template.  I've always read that Lincecum's mechanics are unorthodox, and not a great blueprint for young pitchers.  I'm not criticizing, just interested in your thinking.

Hey Guy's.

As far as using any major league pitcher as a template, one must realize that when doing so one is copying not only the good parts but also the bad parts as well, now very few people have the experience and knowledge that goes with experience which is that most information directed to an aspiring pitcher is coming from uneducated  pitching opinion.even at the major league level, for instance, Barry Zito at one time as we all are aware of had some very successful seasons, then he listened to the wrong people, changed his mechanics and his velocity and every thing else with his pitching went haywire, after he went back to his college video tapes he realized that he needed to get back to his mechanics when he was in college, Why then did his Giants pitching coach Dave Rihgetti who was an excellent Major league pitcher tell him that he could not pitch like that and also did not realize what his problems were? Why? Because he is not up with the new scientific research findings that Dr.James Andrews and his associates at their American Sports Medicine Research Institute in Bermingham, Alabama have brought to the table, such as, how the pitchers body in forward motion from from the rubber to it's finish position {SHOULD OPERATE/FUNCTION,} {INDIFFERENCE} AS TO HOW IT DOES NATURALLY AND TOTALLY INEFFICIENTLY FUNCTION/OPERATE,} which is within a series of sequenced, chain reactive movements. refer back to my previous comments and get on the {TOP VELOCITY SITE}  to properly inform your self about the proper way to execute proper pitching mechanics {GET AWAY FROM OPINION,} and {LEARN TO LET THE BODY, THE LARGE MUSCLES OF THE LOWER BODY} absorb the tremendous amount of {TENSION,STRAIN AND ABUSE} acquired during the throwing motion/movement instead of just the arm and all other body parts which are negatively effected during the throwing motion/movement.

Great Pitching AND Baseball-n  to all.

kom_don

 

 

 

.

 

Two things:
We've long used as a general model mechanically, especially when it comes to explosiveness.  His mechanics are great for showing how to get the most out of a smaller frame, efficiently.  We don't 'copy' them, but i use them to illustrate general concepts.  I don't think lincecum's mechanics are 'freaky'. :-). We also use other smaller framed pitchers such Bauer or Collins (or even pedro) and some times other non small framed guys such as King Felix...it just depends on what I'm looking for.  But generally Lincecum or Bauer...and really never to copy everything.  Every pitcher is different and there are occasionally things a kid just can't do.

Secondly, we do work with Brent and TopVelocity and have for a couple of years (along with some Wolforth).  I am a big fan of Brent's stuff.  Here is his discussion of my son:
http://www.topvelocity.net/for...ing-analysis/page-2/

(By posting here, I was looking to get another set of eyes from folks who have been down this path.  I appreciate all of the feedback so far!)

mcloven,

Why would you use any part of Collins delivery for visual aids or proper teaching purposes? His velocity has improved considerably since he went to Eric Cressey for instruction but, if you will notice he gets virtually no initial forward movement due to the fact that he collapses his hips and drive leg knee down before he acquires any forward movement and momentum, also his first movement forward certainly is not with his hips it is with his stride foot and leg Which leaves his body just hanging there doing absolutely nothing until finally it has to just follow along which is {backwards} due to the fact that the hips should lead the way from the rubber through weight shift to stride foot touch/ plant down, the stride foot and leg should follow the hips through weight shift then on to touch/plant down.The first/initial move{HIPS} is the most important move to get the body properly started into it's {SERIES} of {SEQUENCED }{CHAIN REACTIVE} movements.

 

In your video clip comparison to Lincecum above the head and body tilt off center to his glove side is detrimental to his forward movement and is certainly not good on his arm and shoulder.

Don Ervin

New E mail add.

dfervin32@yahoo.com

Latest video:

My suggestion is to get rid of that piece of junk, portable mound you are attempting to pitch off of, it is entirely too narrow and small for you, stepping off to the side and 8or10 inches down to the surface and then back up before your forward body movement begins is entirely ridiculous and detrimental to your having good balance.

The pitchers body in forward movement should function within a series of sequenced chained reactive movements to be executed at the proper time in their proper sequence with the hips first starting and leading the movement then the stride foot and leg {follow,} not the stride foot and leg {leading the hips} which is {beginning backwards.} from the rubber. the stride foot and leg should not swing out and around they should follow the hip movement straight to the target, these body movements must be directed straight forward {Sideways} to the intended target{Catchers Glove}

An aspiring young pitcher desperately needs an experienced and knowledgeable pitching coach who Follows sports science research findings who is capable of teaching him/her the proper pitching mechanics and how to execute such mechanics, after an aspiring young pitcher learns these proper mechanics it is then up to said pitcher to direct his/her body through the sequence and timing of said mechanics.

I do not have time at the present time to detail the mechanics.

dfervin32@yahoo.com

Sorry about that, I took a closer look and I guess you never stepped down to the surface after all but it does not look like you have much of a place for your left foot to stabilize on.

I view numerous demo's on hip to shoulder separation which do not explain how to execute and do not show the separation which lets it appear that hips and shoulders move together at the same time.

For the record there are three pivots during the pitchers body movement, in this order, #1.Hip pivot.

#2.Collar pivot, #3. Shoulder pivot.

dfervin32@yahoo.com