Time to get nervous about Ivy and/or D3 HA?

I was clueless as a baseball parent (so clueless that in the beginning of my son's sophomore juco season when he said he'd verbally committed to Arkansas, I'd initially thought he'd settled for some second rate school). I went through the first part of the process in a vacuum, learning through his experiences but no community like here (didn't know it existed) to bounce things off of...  

There are parents here like me, who've navigated the process with their sons and have unique perspectives, but IMO the biggest value to others parents with sons nearing the transition to college baseball is what you've done below. Taking the time to concisely layout your experience with a relevant information for others in the process.

Without a horse in the race, I enjoyed reading your take on the experience and I'm sure it will help others.

Thanks for taking the time,

-Bill

@BaseballDadBig4 posted:

Hello all.  Long time lurker.

@BaseballDadBig4 posted:

Just returned from Showball and PTW with some college visits mixed in.  

Showball was great.  Everything is run well and all the players worked well together.  While shagging fly balls for the hitting session, lots of guys were trying to field balls between their legs and such.  Some great talent but I was amazed at how they had trouble staying relaxed and loose.  The parents, as you'd expect, paced nervously for two days, lol.  

At the end of day 1, it was fun to go to the top of the grandstand and watch the players scurry around to talk to the coaches.  My son had a plan and was able to talk to every coach he had interest in talking to.  There were some players who used their entire time waiting to talk to a single Ivy League coach.  My son had a blast talking to the Penn coach and I hear he is quite animated.  Overall, he got good feedback and only one coach seemed to think his test scores might be a problem.  This was a surprise to him as he knows the school is test optional.  I mention this to alert any other parents out there.  Even the test optional school coaches seem to want scores.  It's adds a whole extra layer to this process.  (I mean, with his grades, I feel that my son's chances at admission to some of these HA schools might actually be higher without the baseball).  Make no mistake, I know exactly how competitive these schools are with admission.  I'm a former D1 walk-on at an Ivy (not baseball).  

Day 2 he was not allowed to hit in game as he was a primary pitcher.  Showball policy.  He was a bit bummed about that, but no worries.  His pitching was his usual.  Had great command of his breaking stuff and gave up only a couple of infield hits on ground balls.  No walks and struck out quite a few.  His fastball was not on - he only threw 79.  Really tough, as a parent, as the previous pitcher hit 92 and every coach in the joint moved in for a closer look.   This was the only 1 of 16 pitchers that broke 90 in our session.  Highest pitch I had seen up to that point was 84.  I definitely expected more velocity.

He left Showball feeling that he had played well.  

Until PTW, we went out the East Coast to see some schools and have fun for a few days.  Toured Fenway.  Met with a NESCAC coach on campus and had talked with at Showball.  Got the skinny on this particular school's test optional approach which did not necessarily jive with what we had learned earlier.  So that left us pretty confused - in the end we all realized that we can control what we can control and son is trying to improve his ACT score in July.  I'm sure it will be clearer down the road.  

Our campus visit approach was to see schools based on their environment more than anything.  Hard to visit any schools in particular when you don't really know who will be interested come September and October.  

PTW was the end of our 11 day trip.  It was hot and we were the last of four sessions.  The showcase was very well run and again the players seemed to remain loose and have a good time.  Son did well with skills assessment, at least from I could see.  He didn't hit as well as he would have liked.  The strike zones at these showcases are intentionally big and my son has a little trouble with making good contact with pitches out of the zone so he ended up getting rung up looking twice.  Not what you want to do at these things, but that's ok.  His pitching was so-so.  Have no clue what his velo was since it wasn't posted.  Most of the coaches looked exhausted after 2 days in the heat, so I'm not sure it mattered too much.  

He got interest from 2 mid to lower tier HA D3 programs on a day he felt like he did not play well.  

Most important things we took from our experience:

1. there are a lot of players at these Showball and PTW events with similar skill level to my son.  So either they are all on the outside looking in or he's right where he should be.  

2. he learned that he likes smaller schools in rural, but not too rural, areas.  I'm really glad we took him to see Dartmouth.  It's an amazingly beautiful campus but it is on the extreme edge of that rural spectrum. When a 17yo notices that he didn't see a grocery store the entire day and that bothered him...  

3. Showball and PTW (related groups) are both well run.  No shade to either one of them.  Coaches were approachable for the athletes and we don't regret our decision to attend either.  

Happy to report that son has a few teams (4) interested in him after his showcases.  He's traveling back to East Coast to his top one or two schools for their camps but we are undecided on one as it's a reach.  Took ACT this weekend.  Kid is busy - that's for sure.  Showball just finished up their back-to-back Boston showcases and we expect that if there is any interest from the schools in attendance that we will hear some chatter in the coming weeks.

Metrics from his showcases: ended up running a 7.1 in the 60.  His infield and outfield throwing velo's were above average.  Hit 82 on his FB, so he knows that's going to restrict him a bit but his changeup and curveball got some attention from coaches at events, so he's hopeful. Hitting metrics looked average to me.  I don't really know much about exit velos but his weren't bad compared to the mean.

Congrats, interest is great!  Are they doing academic pre-reads?

Headfirst's last summer sessions end the first week of August, same for Showball.  Then the shuffling gets fast and furious; last Ivy commits are made, those left out become top D3 prospects, players being invited to campus visits, and/or fall camps, etc.  Be prepared to be flexible with travel.

I'm going to expose how naive I am on this whole process, but it isn't it late in the game to wait until August to attend a showcase (for 2025s)?  We are hearing coaches tell parents they typically like their rosters solidified before early decision deadlines, ie: September and October. 

As for pre-reads, no.  The interested coaches are telling us that they have seen enough of my son play that they don't need any more film or camps.  FWIW, my son is now reaching out to these programs to establish more defined relationships.

Fast and furious.  Hmmm.  Sounds like it's going to be a zoo! 

The term "pre-read" refers to academics.  The player gives the coach GPA, transcript, and test scores, coach takes it to the admissions office, who will give a quick yes, no, or maybe about the likelihood of admissions with coach support.  Coaches at HAs focus on the best players who have the best chance of being admitted.

Early decision deadlines are usually end of October, and yes, that's when they need things finalized for admissions support.

In addition to their camps, they might bring prospects to campus for visits, but only once the semester starts (so they can meet the current team).  That mostly happens in September and early October, hence fast and furious.

One of my sons, a LHP, went to Showball in August before senior year. After then, things progressed with his final commitment being to a D1 that saw him there first and then offered after he went to their camp in September. There was plenty of time for HA D3s at that point as well as several D1s. It was very busy with calls, texts, financial and academic pre-reads into late September with multiple schools when he then made his decision. So, I don’t think August Showball is too late at all. Rather, schools are ready to make offers and act accordingly given players who go to Showball (or Headfirst) generally self-select as HA students and have a good idea where they want to go. Therefore my review of SB is that while expensive, was certainly the most efficient for their target player.

Good luck with next steps for your son! It sounds like he is doing a great job evaluating environments and will end up where he is meant to be as a student-athlete.

@anotherparent posted:

The term "pre-read" refers to academics.  The player gives the coach GPA, transcript, and test scores, coach takes it to the admissions office, who will give a quick yes, no, or maybe about the likelihood of admissions with coach support.  Coaches at HAs focus on the best players who have the best chance of being admitted.

Early decision deadlines are usually end of October, and yes, that's when they need things finalized for admissions support.

In addition to their camps, they might bring prospects to campus for visits, but only once the semester starts (so they can meet the current team).  That mostly happens in September and early October, hence fast and furious.

Great advice.

I would just add that the pre-read process varies by school: some will start it in early June, others wait until early August, most are in July. And don't expect admissions to be "quick" with a decision - in every case (my kids and their friends) that wait for a likely letter or a call seemed to take forever. Usually it took a week or two longer than what the coach said it would. And the coach really can't speed things up...it's truly out of their control once the materials are in with admissions.

You could/should ask what number your son is on the coach's list:  is he their #1 recruit, #2, #5, #10? That will give you an indication of where you stand and if you should be maybe considering other options.

Most ED applications are due Nov. 15th. Some are Nov. 30th.  Decisions come out usually by Dec. 15th, but again, it varies a bit by school. Check their website.

@BaseballDadBig4 posted:

I'm going to expose how naive I am on this whole process, but it isn't it late in the game to wait until August to attend a showcase (for 2025s)?  We are hearing coaches tell parents they typically like their rosters solidified before early decision deadlines, ie: September and October.

As for pre-reads, no.  The interested coaches are telling us that they have seen enough of my son play that they don't need any more film or camps. FWIW, my son is now reaching out to these programs to establish more defined relationships.

Fast and furious.  Hmmm.  Sounds like it's going to be a zoo!

Not to be a a jerk, but if the coaches aren't calling your son to schedule a call with him and his parents, and haven't asked for transcripts, test scores, and senior schedule, and say they don't need to see him again - what makes you think they're interested?

Hate to say it but if your son isn't being asked for pre-read materials here in mid-July, he's probably not really in contention for a slot, or he's on their back burner, at best. Hope I'm wrong and your son is in close contact.

"Not to be a a jerk, but if the coaches aren't calling your son to schedule a call with him and his parents, and haven't asked for transcripts, test scores, and senior schedule, and say they don't need to see him again - what makes you think they're interested?

Hate to say it but if your son isn't being asked for pre-read materials here in mid-July, he's probably not really in contention for a slot, or he's on their back burner, at best. Hope I'm wrong and your son is in close contact."

I don't take it that way.  It's hard to be up-front and honest on the internet.  That being said, half of what I read here has been spot on and the other half has been proven, at some level, inaccurate. 

Further, you couldn't have known that we did recently bring in PTW to work with our son.  Since we are so geographically isolated, we felt that we needed some help in the process.  Trips out East to go to specific camps are $2000/pop minimum for him and one parent, not to mention 1 day of travel each way.  Our math basically says the cost was a push at worst and additionally we save ourselves loads of time and stress.  So far, they have been great. 

All of the information regarding test scores, transcripts, and schedules are being given and updated through on-line questionnaires and emails.   Since he had little knowledge of the 4 schools with interest, he is investigating them before anything else.  Further, we are waiting to see how his top choices view him before going further.  That's all at the advice of PTW.   

I mean I'd love for the phone to be ringing off the hook, but literally every school we are interested in was at Showball Boston all last week and basically told us they haven't put together their recruit boards yet. 

Finally, I'll point out that Showball later in the summer has a completely different list of schools than in June/July.  That can't be an accident. 

Best of luck. Let us know how it goes.

While @SpeedDemon is SPOT ON, I do think you're both referencing apples vs oranges? BTW, PLEASE don't ignore/overlook/ forget about the AZ Senior Fall Classic tryout event in late September. The majority of the HF/SB schools AND THEN SOME from all levels will be there. Historically, it's MERGED the 2 DIFFERING pools of SB schools (East vs West coast centric). Many schools that lost players to the portal/ draft/ decommit or other unforeseen circumstances, esp WEST coast-centric will be there and will be MOTIVATED... all for 1/6.5 the cost of SB. PLUS, you have a significant chunk of time to potentially improve and gain a new audience or perhaps turn the tables and incite FOMO amongst existing interested schools. Good luck!

HA baseball recruiting is a niche thing, but it has its ins and outs; having an agency like PTW explaining to you what's going on (and especially, who might have real interest) is a good thing.  I agree that travelling to camps is expensive; having a sense of how much interest there is should factor into any travel plans.

D3s finalize their boards after the last HF showcases in early August, but, as SpeedDemon noted, they are already going after top recruits they've seen or heard about before that.  However, there are not enough of those "top recruits" for all the HA D3 schools, so slots will continue to be offered throughout the fall, from camps.  AZ Classic is at the end of that window.

How to gauge interest, visiting, etc?  These threads have good info (mostly from 2019, but I think it still applies):

https://community.hsbaseballweb.com/topic/d3-slots

https://community.hsbaseballwe...ir-level-of-interest

https://community.hsbaseballwe...stages-of-recruiting

Emphasis mine.

@TerribleBPthrower posted:

Today (5/27/24/) would be a great day for 2025 kids to fire off those emails to HA coaches. Most of their seasons are over and the coaches will begin recruiting season this week. There are Showball and Headfirst events over the next few weeks. If a player is ready to show and can afford to attend, I’d recommend going.

@TerribleBPthrower posted:

Is that the Showball in Cali? Has he created a short list of top schools he's interested in there? Most of the kids are going to spend a lot of time talking to Ivy coaches. Make sure he contacts the coaches he's interested in ahead of time and fills out their recruit form.

@TerribleBPthrower posted:

Most Ivies are targeting RHP’s throwing 90+. Even the top HA schools were targeting 88-90 when my son was going through a couple summers ago. HA D3’s will start their recruiting in June. I’d recommend going to a June Showball or Headfirst and see what the interest is.

Does he have his SAT/ACT scores yet?

I personally like to sweat the small stuff, so please DO NOT overlook filling out the recruit questionnaire at the websites of baseball programs one's interested in. It's almost as though you dont officially exist if you haven't filled it out. Also, if it's functionally incomplete (ie NO test scores, transcripts) you're in no man's land as far as existence; maybe you do maybe you dont. Have relevant video links highlighting your baseball skill set too. You can craft a gorgeous and personal email even with outstanding video attached, but programs will STILL ask you to fill these out. (As always) make it easier on the coaches. Take advantage of recency bias and fill it out when you feel coaches have down time (ie RIGHT after their seasons are over or in the fall for rising junior year) and are receptive and prepared to digest and consider it and it stands out.  I imagine if metrics/skill/ TEST SCORES improve and/or there's NEW (better) video, refill and resend the recruit questionnaire within reason. Over and over, we were gently reminded of the importance of the questionnaire.

  Veterans of this board already know what I’m about to say. But for the sake of any newcomers, here is something you need to know.
  The recruiting process is different for the various levels of college baseball. D1 is different from D2 is different from D3 is different than JuCo. HA D3 is different than ordinary D3.
  The sooner you can accurately determine the proper level of play for your player the sooner you can start getting familiar with the applicable process. When seeking advice about recruiting it’s paramount that you get it from someone who went thru the same process as you. Get advice on D1 recruiting from someone whose son is playing D1, and so on. Otherwise you may be wasting your time and your resources.

@GratefulNTXlurker posted:

Emphasis mine.

I personally like to sweat the small stuff, so please DO NOT overlook filling out the recruit questionnaire at the websites of baseball programs one's interested in. It's almost as though you dont officially exist if you haven't filled it out. Also, if it's functionally incomplete (ie NO test scores, transcripts) you're in no man's land as far as existence; maybe you do maybe you dont. Have relevant video links highlighting your baseball skill set too. You can craft a gorgeous and personal email even with outstanding video attached, but programs will STILL ask you to fill these out. (As always) make it easier on the coaches. Take advantage of recency bias and fill it out when you feel coaches have down time (ie RIGHT after their seasons are over or in the fall for rising junior year) and are receptive and prepared to digest and consider it and it stands out.  I imagine if metrics/skill/ TEST SCORES improve and/or there's NEW (better) video, refill and resend the recruit questionnaire within reason. Over and over, we were gently reminded of the importance of the questionnaire.

Second this.

I once had a former RC tell me that recruits should email the coaches on Tuesday and Wed mornings - bc that's when they're slowest and no one else is emailing them then.

@SpeedDemon posted:

Second this.

I once had a former RC tell me that recruits should email the coaches on Tuesday and Wed mornings - bc that's when they're slowest and no one else is emailing them then.

"That's gold Jerry, GOLD!"

Wish we knew that!...

Update. 

1 pre-read on-going.   Good school with a coach son likes. 

In the mix with about half dozen more programs.  Velocity just a bit low for most HA D3 right now.  Son is trying to eke out a few more mph through mechanics and continuing to grind.  One of these schools is his first choice, so he's not giving up.

Went >30 on his ACT so he feels confident in his academic side of the equation. 

We'll see how he does with his late summer bullpens now that the traveling is done for the summer. 

@BaseballDadBig4 posted:

Update.

1 pre-read on-going.   Good school with a coach son likes.

In the mix with about half dozen more programs.  Velocity just a bit low for most HA D3 right now.  Son is trying to eke out a few more mph through mechanics and continuing to grind.  One of these schools is his first choice, so he's not giving up.

Went >30 on his ACT so he feels confident in his academic side of the equation.

We'll see how he does with his late summer bullpens now that the traveling is done for the summer.

Now that summer season and showcases are over....

I would hit the weights and include days for movement and flexibility, giving throwing about a month off. Weights should include speed reps.  I won't go into much more here as he really should find a qualified S&C coach for baseball pitching he can work with.

(Flexibility is equally important to velo and health).

Then after a good 4 weeks of purely strength training,  throw mornings and lift/movement days in the afterrnoon,  throwing days include long toss days, catch play and bullpen days (no more than 20-30 pitches in bullpens depending on how he is feeling).  No more than 2 bullpens a week.

Often one will find that after a good 10-12 weeks of full off season strength training, flexibility training and throwing, if you take a couple weeks off the velo will spike a few extra mph as the body recovers, at that point you go into maintenance mode leading into the season so you don't lose what was gained.

Final update.  Son was accepted ED to an HA program in the midwest.  Glad it's over.  Son is very happy with the program he's going to, for both school and ball.  Looking back, I think the west-coast states are at a big disadvantage cost-wise with so many teams located near or east of the Mississippi.  We would have attended more on campus camps but the resources and time required was insane. 

Not sour grapes though, the process worked out and I think my son ended up at the type of program that made sense.  Thanks for everyone's help.

Congratulations to your son!  Wonderful news!

Congratulations!  Very exciting that he has things settled.  Enjoy his senior season next spring.

Congrats to you and your family @BaseballDadBig4!   That is great news just in time for the Holidays.  Cheers!

In terms of your comment about east coast schools, and west coasters being at a disadvantage I agree, but I think it depends how the school recruits their talent whether it is national, regional or local.  My son went to an east coast HA school and about 66% of the team were from the west coast.  The majority of the west coasters were from Cali.  My son's freshmen year roommate was from SoCal, and he hadn't even visited the school prior to being accepted.  I don't recommend his approach, but knowing him now it makes sense.   I found this out as I was watching him unpack his clothes.....all beach gear, short pants, flip flops and polos.   No winter clothes or jacket.   My wife and I thought this was hilarious as we both grew up in New England.  He attended west coast showcases, and was recruited directly from those events.  He was a 4-year starter.

@fenwaysouth posted:

Congrats to you and your family @BaseballDadBig4!   That is great news just in time for the Holidays.  Cheers!

In terms of your comment about east coast schools, and west coasters being at a disadvantage I agree, but I think it depends how the school recruits their talent whether it is national, regional or local.  My son went to an east coast HA school and about 66% of the team were from the west coast.  The majority of the west coasters were from Cali.  My son's freshmen year roommate was from SoCal, and he hadn't even visited the school prior to being accepted.  I don't recommend his approach, but knowing him now it makes sense.   I found this out as I was watching him unpack his clothes.....all beach gear, short pants, flip flops and polos.   No winter clothes or jacket.   My wife and I thought this was hilarious as we both grew up in New England.  He attended west coast showcases, and was recruited directly from those events.  He was a 4-year starter.

I’m guessing admission to an Ivy without visiting is worth the risk. Ithaca in the winter must have been a shock for him.

We moved from Southern CA to to the east coast when my son was six months old. Due to unique circumstances my son flew to college in the Midwest days before classes started. I didn’t meet the roommate or parents until Parents Weekend.

My son called the first day to tell me his roommate was from the town we moved from in Southern CA eighteen years previous. When told his name I asked if his parents are named X and Y. It turned out we knew them. My son and the roommate had been in the same Mommy and Me class before we moved.