Time to get nervous about Ivy and/or D3 HA?

I think that you left out some content in this OP.  Are you suggesting that your son has not had any interest?

@CoachB25 posted:

I think that you left out some content in this OP.  Are you suggesting that your son has not had any interest?

totally correct.  posted by accident, now edited to be more complete.

Most Ivies are targeting RHP’s throwing 90+. Even the top HA schools were targeting 88-90 when my son was going through a couple summers ago. HA D3’s will start their recruiting in June. I’d recommend going to a June Showball or Headfirst and see what the interest is.

Does he have his SAT/ACT scores yet?

If he has a chance, Gary from PTW will find a spot for him. Gary knows his stuff and is well connected in the HA network

Welcome to the site!

HA D3 recruiting picks up in late May and June, when the regular college season ends.  Ivies are probably already mostly set, and, as TBP said, unless his velo is much higher that's not going to fly.

You have to have something to sell.  What, exactly, have you said in the emails to coaches?  You need to have better information to send than "was throwing 78-81 a year ago."  It's not hard to measure pitching velocity, you should get it done.  Is he playing for his high school?  Starting on varsity?  Doing well?

"the kind of kid coaches dream about - works hard, quiet leader, uber competitive, and is coachable" - well no, what they dream about is a kid like this who can perform successfully at their level of baseball.

Also, D3 baseball has no roster limits.  There are all kinds of levels of D3 baseball, from schools where they will take as many players as want to go there, to the super-high-academic (HA) schools where admission rates are so low that the coach has to really want your son in order to help him in admissions.  You have to figure out precisely which kinds of schools your son fits, between academics and baseball.

He's got a local 1 day showcase to grab his current metrics.  He is varsity starter for second year now.  Hits well and leads his team with EBH so he has some pop.  Its tough, he's all around very good - just not a fireballer or bomb hitter.  I suspect he might be able to throw low 80s, nowhere near 90. 

The numbers lend themselves to D3 far more than D1 (Ivy). I’m guessing Ivy League competition and ranked D3 is far better baseball than you understand. There are a couple of ranked D3s nearby. Their pitchers are in in the 85-90 range. Anyone throwing any lower has such great command they can knock a zit of a gnat’s ass.

D3 ball can vary from very competitive and being able to beat a lower end D1 with their top pitcher to all bodies welcome. Your son wants to put himself in a position where the coach wants him to apply ED and is willing to help get him through admissions.

Here’s an example of a delusion you don’t want. One of the kids I mentored fell for this despite my warnings. It was a HA competitive D3. They competed on the fringe of the top twenty-five. The coach told the kid if he gets accepted he’s on the team. The kid was confident he would get accepted without help. He did. He was excited he was on the team.

The team had an unlimited roster. In four years the kid got about twenty-five at bats and never traveled for away games. The kid’s family had money. He was a full pay. The coach probably got a bonus for luring a full pay athlete to campus.

The upside is he got a great education. His parents could afford the school. He’s been successful professionally post college. But baseball was nothing more than making friends.

Hi. Welcome.

I am going to be straightforward -

6''2" 180 lb RHP with a 3.98 uwGPA / 4.25 wGPA and playing multiple sports and being a nice, hardworking, coachable guy are all strong attributes.

But throwing low 80s unless he's a low slot/submariner means he is probably not going to pitch in college, def not D1. And a 7.0 60 is not enough either. HS stats don't mean much since the level of play and competition varies greatly.

Great idea to attend Showball and PTW and get updated metrics from a neutral third party....really hope he has a big jump in velo and running speed.

But unless something pops soon, you need to go into selling mode and open up your lens as far as schools if he wants to play college ball. The competition for slots at HA D1s and D3s is intense. Based on the metrics you've provided your son is a marginal D3 player, at best.*

An advocate - a club or HS coach typically - who can field interest and make calls on his behalf will greatly help.

Open up your lens. Be open to any and all feedback you get from Showball and PTW, even if that feedback is silence.

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Someone posted this a while ago and I think it's still accurate. Thought it might help.

Tier 1:  MIT/Cal Tech.  freakishly hard to get in.  Need 3.9+ uwGPA, impressive extracirriculars,  1520+/35+. Even if you are a stud player... total crap shoot.  Mandatory test scores.

Tier2A: Johns Hopkins/UnivChicago.  3.9+ uwGPA.  1500+/34-35+.  Mandatory test scores.

Tier2B:  Swarthmore/Williams/Pomona /Tufts/WUSTL/Emory/CMS/W&L/Amherst/Bowdoin/Middlebury/Colby/Haverford/Babson: 3.8-3.9 uwGPA, Still definitely will want test scores.  Maybe as low as 1400+ can possibly do it if you have mad skills or even lower if you have under represented minority status.

Tier 3:  NYU/CWRU/Hamilton/Brandeis/Rochester/Wesleyan/Grinnell/Trinity (CT)/WPI/RPI/Stevens/Bates/Carleton/Macalester/Wesleyan: 3.75 + uwGPA, Still generally will want test scores.  Maybe 1300+ can do it?

Tier 4:  DePauw/Denison/Gettysburg/Washington and Jeff/Trinity TX/Franklin Marshall/Kenyon/Occidental/Wooster/Chapman/Whittier/Centre/Clark/Wheaton/Lewis and Clark/Dickenson/Muhlenberg/Whitman/rose hulman)/a few others.   Now we're getting to schools that might be test optional.

* My daughter dated a baseball pitcher at her HA D3...he was 6'5" and threw 93mph at the end of his freshman year. In D3.

It's rough out there.

@RJM posted:

The numbers lend themselves to D3:far more than D1 (Ivy). I’m guessing Ivy League competition and ranked D3;is far better baseball than you understand.

Thanks for honest feedback. We never pushed our son to play ball.  He just loves it and declared along the way he wanted to play at the next level.  We are not athlete producing parents despite being former D1 athletes ourselves.  We value academics, so we know he will be fine, but he has to chase his dreams.  Once we learned how competitive this process had become, he put in everything he could to improve.  To his credit he's put on weight and improved his play.  We won't be heartbroken if he applies to college the old fashioned way, but he will. 

@SpeedDemon gave spot on advice. Great list BTW. I would add maybe go to Headfirst. Based on his metrics from a year ago he likely won't play college ball...who knows coaches make these decisions not a bunch of posters on a board, and you will know after a few events.  Long time legendary poster here  @Coach May said "You will know if they are interested"

My advice would be to make a list of schools he is interested in and do an A-B-C list forgetting about baseball and then add BB to the equation. If there are some schools that are fringe baseball programs he could email the coach. My son played D3  and he had a teammate that maybe played 10 games over 4 years (due to large roster) only in clean up innings, but he was loved by the team and coaches and while he did not travel much he had the full college baseball experience. Now that I think about it he did travel with the team to the CWS.

I will add that college baseball is hard, freaking hard, and most parents/posters/non-college players have not idea how hard it is, until they see their sons, or experience it. It is particularly difficult for STEM students so keep supporting his dream as long as it is his dream.

Best of luck!

@BaseballDadBig4 posted:

Thanks for honest feedback. We never pushed our son to play ball.  He just loves it and declared along the way he wanted to play at the next level.  We are not athlete producing parents despite being former D1 athletes ourselves.  We value academics, so we know he will be fine, but he has to chase his dreams.  Once we learned how competitive this process had become, he put in everything he could to improve.  To his credit he's put on weight and improved his play.  We won't be heartbroken if he applies to college the old fashioned way, but he will.

When did he decide he wanted to play at the next level?  What has he done to try and get there?  Lift, pitching lessons, long toss in the off season?    Of this decision was made recently then you never know what can develop if he works really hard.  If he has been working really hard and is still only throwing 80, might not be good.  Where is he physically wise in terms of maturity?  Is he done growing, still looks like he will add height?   Lots of things to consider

SpeedDemon’s post is a great starting point. Figure out which school he fits into academically, then try to determine which fit athletically. Every year there are 20 or so good players who are academically qualified for the top 4 or 5 academic schools. Once those kids commit (usually August-September), the coaches begin to fill in the rest of their classes. You can outsource a lot of this to PTW. They can tell you pretty quickly which schools will be interested and how many kids that coach is looking for. They are also very honest and don’t beat around the bush.

Does he have a wicked changeup or curveball? Throw a funky pitch that gets outs? Every team has a spot for a reliever specialist.

@Dadof3 posted:

When did he decide he wanted to play at the next level?  What has he done to try and get there?  Lift, pitching lessons, long toss in the off season?    Of this decision was made recently then you never know what can develop if he works really hard.  If he has been working really hard and is still only throwing 80, might not be good.  Where is he physically wise in terms of maturity?  Is he done growing, still looks like he will add height?   Lots of things to consider

He decided somewhere during his sophomore year.  Since he's never been velocity oriented, I don't really know what he's capable of.  He's slender but starting to show some muscle growth for sure.  Maybe 10 pounds in past year.  He's got a wide shoulder base and a wingspan longer than his height, so I think potential-wise, he's got a lot going for him.  He's been spotted as potential candidate collegiately for his dedication to his changeup which is a solid pitch for him.

All of the feedback has been good to think about.  Thank you.   I'll be sure to keep everyone posted.  Anything we can learn can be helpful for others too.   

In 2018, a parent on here created the following list, in which he averaged the academic ranking (US News) of schools with with their baseball rankings (Massey), and came up with a top 100 list.  Obviously some of the data is out of date and it fluctuates from year to year.  But I remember finding it helpful as a way to think about which top academic schools have strong baseball programs, and which do not:

https://community.hsbaseballwe...ranking-2018-edition

Sounds like he has potential!  He’s got to make sure his mechanics are good.  Not sure if you have an instructor or not, but that could add some mph.  Good luck and keep us posted

@anotherparent posted:

In 2018, a parent on here created the following list, in which he averaged the academic ranking (US News) of schools with with their baseball rankings (Massey), and came up with a top 100 list.  Obviously some of the data is out of date and it fluctuates from year to year.  But I remember finding it helpful as a way to think about which top academic schools have strong baseball programs, and which do not:

https://community.hsbaseballwe...ranking-2018-edition

My son added the math and physics major rankings to make the academic ranking more specific. Some of the schools at the top might be really strong in economics and other areas, but not great for STEM, or the opposite. The list is a huge starting point though!

Hi BaseballDadBig4. When I look at the people who've responded, they are all people I've learned a lot from over the years when I was figuring out my 2023 MIF.  I currently have a 2025 LHP who has similar grades. 1480 PSAT. 6ft, 190lbs, plays on a top 30 travel team.  We did a Showball, AZ Fall Classic, big PG tourneys last year.  He was throwing 82-85 all year. He had exactly 3 D1 schools have single conversations with him and no offers.  I know he is on a bunch of D3 follow lists.  Maybe he's on some D1 lists but if so, he's in that group of 50-200 players below their top tier of desired players.

He was 85-87 this winter before he hurt himself.  Unfortunately it will now be late summer before he throws again... if we're lucky.

I suspect the Ivy have almost all got their 2025 position player spots figured out.  Pitching recruiting is more flexible and can be later.  But I think you HAVE TO find out his current velocity to know whether or not a D1 is possible.  That said, I think you would probably know if he was 85+ currently.  In high school, particularly if you are in a non-metro area, 85+ blows the doors off most hitters.

So I suspect he is in the D3 pool which is just fine.  Honestly, I learned with my 2023 MIF that finding the school that fits his academic goals; and where he will actually play; is the most important thing.  With 2025, it was a bit hard because he is a D1/D3 "tween'r" but I suspect the injury will help figure it out for him.

My observations have been a smart 6'2" RHP at 83+ with good stuff can find a place at a HA D3 if you go to Headfirst/Showball/PTW.

Good luck!

@Dadbelly2023 posted:

finding the school that fits his academic goals; and where he will actually play; is the most important thing.

^^this

If you have the resources you should get your son to attend the camps of the HA D3 he is interested in or the super camps. Most of them are in June as playoff are about to start.