I'm surprised there's no discussion. Anybody from here down there?
Original Post
Replies sorted oldest to newest
I'm familiar with the Texas teams but I don't have a boy on any of them. Been following it online.
Lots of comments about the running of the Elite 24. Will have a long commentary in a day or so.
Our team just returned from the Elite 24 WS on Sunday Evening. Our ONLY complaints about the tournament were NO concessions (except in the Milk House) until the last 2 days of the tournament and on day one, when it rained. They told the team a "minimum" of 2 hr. rain delay and it ended up being more like an hour.
Overall, it was a great experience for our team.
Overall, it was a great experience for our team.
My son went last year as a 13 and this year as a 14, playing with different organizations. Both years his team lost in the semifinals. Frankly, last year was a much better experience, even though it was hotter. There was quite a bit of rain this year, and it put pressure on the tournament schedule. By the end of the week, the tournament was close to one day behind. The tournament directors can't control the weather, but they certainly could have done a better job of releasing and communicating revised schedules. Saturday's schedule and field assignments for the quarterfinals were released on the previous night at 10:30PM for an 8:00AM game time. One 13U team played Friday night starting at 10:30PM, and then lost their quarterfinal game starting at 8:00AM Saturday. Basically games on Saturday were arranged on the fly to finish as soon as possible. Two of the four 14U semifinal teams played 3 games in a row without a significant break, and then the fields lay quiet for the rest of Saturday afternoon and evening. Yet the sky, as forecasted, was clear. Before the tournament, teams were instructed to arrange their travel to leave Sunday open as rain day, but the tournament administrators made minimal use of the rain day.
On Friday morning, our team was required to start a game in steady rain, which worsened until the game was stopped in the middle of the second inning. Disney has free wireless at the fields, and the radar images coming to my laptop at the gametime showed that the rain wouldn't clear for hours.
Field assignments also seemed odd. My son's team played 6 of their 8 games in the stadium. That was great for us, but it does seem unfair to a number of other teams.
Finally, perhaps I've become spoiled by the quality of umpiring we saw this summer at a USA Baseball Champions tournament and a PG wood bat event at East Cobb, but the umpiring at the Elite 24 was not very good throughout the tournament. It was fitting that the Championship game was stopped for 40 minutes while the 4-man unpiring crew and the tournament directors deliberated how to rectify an umpire's error following catcher's inteference.
On Friday morning, our team was required to start a game in steady rain, which worsened until the game was stopped in the middle of the second inning. Disney has free wireless at the fields, and the radar images coming to my laptop at the gametime showed that the rain wouldn't clear for hours.
Field assignments also seemed odd. My son's team played 6 of their 8 games in the stadium. That was great for us, but it does seem unfair to a number of other teams.
Finally, perhaps I've become spoiled by the quality of umpiring we saw this summer at a USA Baseball Champions tournament and a PG wood bat event at East Cobb, but the umpiring at the Elite 24 was not very good throughout the tournament. It was fitting that the Championship game was stopped for 40 minutes while the 4-man unpiring crew and the tournament directors deliberated how to rectify an umpire's error following catcher's inteference.
This tournament is in our coaches "game plan" for this year. Please tell me at the 14U age level is it worth it. Whats it really like. Any hints or suggestions you can give personally for for a team trying to plan this will be greatly appreicated. Thanks!!
You'll need to finish top two in a NIT to qualify I believe. Memorial Day in KC is usually one of the qualifying tournaments. You'll face several of the better teams in the Midwest in KC such as the Oklahoma Elite, Rocky Mountain Steel, Omaha Pacesetters, etc...
Expensive trip if you stay at Disney I'm told.
Good luck in getting there.
Expensive trip if you stay at Disney I'm told.
Good luck in getting there.
There are a few NIT's where the top two teams make it into the Elite 24, but I think you have to win most NIT's to qualify.
Here's some comments based on my son's experiences in the last two years at 13U and 14U. Twenty of the teams gain berths by competing in 16 different Super NIT tournaments. Four of the Super NITs offer two berths, while the rest offer one. Generally, a team needs to win the SNIT to get a berth (or finish 1st or 2nd in two-berth tournaments), but sometimes the tournament winner has already qualified, and usually, but not necessarily, the berth is passed down to the 2nd place team. There are 3 SNITs in California in November, January, and February, two more in the Southeast in April, and the rest are throughout the country in May and June. Getting a berth isn't easy, even for excellent teams. My son's teams needed three tries each year to qualify, but then made the quarterfinals in the Elite 24 both times.
The other 4 berths are an at-large berth, and the winners of the previous years East and West World Series, and the previous Elite 24.
I believe the Elite 24 has no entry fees, and there are $75/night hotels near the Disney Complex. A car is essential. Two years ago we stayed in condos w/kitchens that are very nice, and ran around $800 for the week, but that is less cohesive for the team.
During the same week, the Complex also hosts an AAU basketball tournament, and the Tampa Bay Buccaneers use the Complex as their training facility--lots of football enthusiasts come to watch.
I think this is the best competition of any tournament for this age player. More than half the teams are pretty darn good. The winner will play a minimum of 7 and a maximum of 10 games, so there is a lot of pressure on pitching.
Is it worth it? For baseball academies and programs, simply being in the tournament is good advertising, and placing well can attract new players. For a player, it can be a lot of fun, and doing well can be a real confidence booster. It is also an opportunity, if the player's team goes far in the tournament, to see if baseball is in fact fun when played for 5 or 6 days straight in less than desirable weather. Some players will have played in a similar number of games at Cooperstown in their 12U year, and had a blast, but the Elite 24 has a much more serious feel, with no easy games, and it can be very tiring.
For me personally, I found my son's first year at the Elite 24 to be illuminating. Clearly some of the best players in the country don't play in this tournament, but I suppose that perhaps a third of the Elite 24 players are within the top thousand or so players in the country at their age level. If you take the trouble to compare your player's talent and tools (as opposed to his stats or performance) to the better players in the tournament, it is possible to get a pretty good calibration of his potential.
Whether any of these benefits are "worth it" is hard to say. The simple fact that a player participated in the tournament will have no impact on making his high school team. Nor will he find himself on somebody's list of "players to watch". But the experience of playing may whet his appetite for baseball, or on the other hand, perhaps make him realize that baseball isn't so much fun. I think there is real value in the experience of competing at the highest level. You'll need to decide for yourself.
The other 4 berths are an at-large berth, and the winners of the previous years East and West World Series, and the previous Elite 24.
I believe the Elite 24 has no entry fees, and there are $75/night hotels near the Disney Complex. A car is essential. Two years ago we stayed in condos w/kitchens that are very nice, and ran around $800 for the week, but that is less cohesive for the team.
During the same week, the Complex also hosts an AAU basketball tournament, and the Tampa Bay Buccaneers use the Complex as their training facility--lots of football enthusiasts come to watch.
I think this is the best competition of any tournament for this age player. More than half the teams are pretty darn good. The winner will play a minimum of 7 and a maximum of 10 games, so there is a lot of pressure on pitching.
Is it worth it? For baseball academies and programs, simply being in the tournament is good advertising, and placing well can attract new players. For a player, it can be a lot of fun, and doing well can be a real confidence booster. It is also an opportunity, if the player's team goes far in the tournament, to see if baseball is in fact fun when played for 5 or 6 days straight in less than desirable weather. Some players will have played in a similar number of games at Cooperstown in their 12U year, and had a blast, but the Elite 24 has a much more serious feel, with no easy games, and it can be very tiring.
For me personally, I found my son's first year at the Elite 24 to be illuminating. Clearly some of the best players in the country don't play in this tournament, but I suppose that perhaps a third of the Elite 24 players are within the top thousand or so players in the country at their age level. If you take the trouble to compare your player's talent and tools (as opposed to his stats or performance) to the better players in the tournament, it is possible to get a pretty good calibration of his potential.
Whether any of these benefits are "worth it" is hard to say. The simple fact that a player participated in the tournament will have no impact on making his high school team. Nor will he find himself on somebody's list of "players to watch". But the experience of playing may whet his appetite for baseball, or on the other hand, perhaps make him realize that baseball isn't so much fun. I think there is real value in the experience of competing at the highest level. You'll need to decide for yourself.
I see the only value of a tournament like the Elite 24 at younger ages to be the thrill of competing. I find how a player compares to other players and players from other parts of the country to be irrelevant until they all physically develop. At thirteen and fourteen years old (or any baseball age before the teens) a kid can be physically +/- three years of his actual age.
Let's compare two kids:
12U: 5'8", 170 v. 5', 95
13U: 5'8", 170 v. 5'2", 105
14U: 5'8", 180 v. 5'4", 110
15U fallball: 5'8", 180 v. 5'9", 135
Which kid do you think is more likely to be the player in high school? The first kid's dad is 5'6". His mother is 5'2". The second kid's dad is 6'1". His mother is 5'8".
Let's compare two kids:
12U: 5'8", 170 v. 5', 95
13U: 5'8", 170 v. 5'2", 105
14U: 5'8", 180 v. 5'4", 110
15U fallball: 5'8", 180 v. 5'9", 135
Which kid do you think is more likely to be the player in high school? The first kid's dad is 5'6". His mother is 5'2". The second kid's dad is 6'1". His mother is 5'8".
quote:Originally posted by RJM:
Let's compare two kids:
Why don't you send a PM to TG and ask him? I think he is familiar with and fascinated by two boys of those growth characteristics.
My own opinion is that both boys are big enough to play in high school. The degree of success will be mostly determined by their talent combined with their mental and emotional makeup.
In the 2004 USSSA "Elite 16", as it was then called, the Richmond Braves 2008 won one semifinal, the Scottsdale Storm the other, and the Storm won the championship.
The Braves came up short when their # 1 pitcher developed a blister and could not throw on "final 4" Friday. Their # 2 guy won the semi, but they had no one left to pitch the finale.
The Storm had an ace still fresh for the finale, and thus, the game wasn't close.
Who were those three pitchers?
Two would become 2007 AFLAC All-Americans. One was named U.S. High School Player of the Year for 2007. The third -- actually the winner of the championship game -- later had an arm injury but has recovered well enough to get a scholarship to UCLA. He was throwing 94 in Jupiter last weekend so I would say the recovery was complete.
One of the three would play for USA Baseball's Youth National Team and Junior National Team, the other two would be finalists for the Youth National Team.
The top pitcher is a likely millionaire come June. (The other two are on watch lists but the jury is still out.)
Moral: Enjoy the games and make note of those you see who stand out. You may be amazed to learn that, in a few years, you'll have a few "I saw 'em when" stories of your own!
It goes by faster than you would ever think possible, guys, enjoy it while you can!
The Braves came up short when their # 1 pitcher developed a blister and could not throw on "final 4" Friday. Their # 2 guy won the semi, but they had no one left to pitch the finale.
The Storm had an ace still fresh for the finale, and thus, the game wasn't close.
Who were those three pitchers?
Two would become 2007 AFLAC All-Americans. One was named U.S. High School Player of the Year for 2007. The third -- actually the winner of the championship game -- later had an arm injury but has recovered well enough to get a scholarship to UCLA. He was throwing 94 in Jupiter last weekend so I would say the recovery was complete.
One of the three would play for USA Baseball's Youth National Team and Junior National Team, the other two would be finalists for the Youth National Team.
The top pitcher is a likely millionaire come June. (The other two are on watch lists but the jury is still out.)
Moral: Enjoy the games and make note of those you see who stand out. You may be amazed to learn that, in a few years, you'll have a few "I saw 'em when" stories of your own!
It goes by faster than you would ever think possible, guys, enjoy it while you can!
quote:Originally posted by RJM:
I see the only value of a tournament like the Elite 24 at younger ages to be the thrill of competing. I find how a player compares to other players and players from other parts of the country to be irrelevant until they all physically develop. At thirteen and fourteen years old (or any baseball age before the teens) a kid can be physically +/- three years of his actual age.
Let's compare two kids:
12U: 5'8", 170 v. 5', 95
13U: 5'8", 170 v. 5'2", 105
14U: 5'8", 180 v. 5'4", 110
15U fallball: 5'8", 180 v. 5'9", 135
Which kid do you think is more likely to be the player in high school? The first kid's dad is 5'6". His mother is 5'2". The second kid's dad is 6'1". His mother is 5'8".
What does this have to do with the original post?
"If you take the trouble to compare your player's talent and tools (as opposed to his stats or performance) to the better players in the tournament, it is possible to get a pretty good calibration of his potential."quote:Originally posted by Tiger Paw Mom:quote:Originally posted by RJM:
I see the only value of a tournament like the Elite 24 at younger ages to be the thrill of competing. I find how a player compares to other players and players from other parts of the country to be irrelevant until they all physically develop. At thirteen and fourteen years old (or any baseball age before the teens) a kid can be physically +/- three years of his actual age.
Let's compare two kids:
12U: 5'8", 170 v. 5', 95
13U: 5'8", 170 v. 5'2", 105
14U: 5'8", 180 v. 5'4", 110
15U fallball: 5'8", 180 v. 5'9", 135
Which kid do you think is more likely to be the player in high school? The first kid's dad is 5'6". His mother is 5'2". The second kid's dad is 6'1". His mother is 5'8".
What does this have to do with the original post?
I see no correlation between what was posted to bring your response.
If a parent wants to have their player in this kind of competition, isn' that their perogative? Did anyone mention this was a must attend to play HS ball?
Besides, haven't you posted your theories before about this (and everyone knows) again, what was the purpose?
Read Midlodads post carefully, some who participated in this tourney you will hear names called in June. Were they playing for the thrill of competition or because they felt it would be an important step to reach their goals?
If a parent wants to have their player in this kind of competition, isn' that their perogative? Did anyone mention this was a must attend to play HS ball?
Besides, haven't you posted your theories before about this (and everyone knows) again, what was the purpose?
Read Midlodads post carefully, some who participated in this tourney you will hear names called in June. Were they playing for the thrill of competition or because they felt it would be an important step to reach their goals?
I know I am kind of slow. But I am following that the teams at the Elite 24 are some of the best teams in the country, and those teams have some of the best players on the teams. And by watching those players one could see compareing the skills and tools of players on those teams, including your own.
But,,,
I am not sure I am following,what the post about the sizes of two kids has to do with this thread about the Elite 24. Where these kids at the Elite 24.
But,,,
I am not sure I am following,what the post about the sizes of two kids has to do with this thread about the Elite 24. Where these kids at the Elite 24.
"If you take the trouble to compare your player's talent and tools (as opposed to his stats or performance) to the better players in the tournament, it is possible to get a pretty good calibration of his potential."quote:Originally posted by GapFinder:
I know I am kind of slow. But I am following that the teams at the Elite 24 are some of the best teams in the country, and those teams have some of the best players on the teams. And by watching those players one could see compareing the skills and tools of players on those teams, including your own.
But,,,
I am not sure I am following,what the post about the sizes of two kids has to do with this thread about the Elite 24. Where these kids at the Elite 24.
Not at 13U and 14U. While there will be some future stars there will also be many early bloomers who fade way.
gonna have to disagree with you.
If these players are on a sucessful team at the Elite 24 , chances are they are some of the best players at thier age group, Now, not Future.
No one has said unless a kid plays there, E24, they will never make a High school team. And the group of kids who are the "Best" will change.
But back to TPM question, how does posting the height and weight of 2 kid have relivance to this thread?
If these players are on a sucessful team at the Elite 24 , chances are they are some of the best players at thier age group, Now, not Future.
No one has said unless a kid plays there, E24, they will never make a High school team. And the group of kids who are the "Best" will change.
But back to TPM question, how does posting the height and weight of 2 kid have relivance to this thread?
The origonal poster stated "If you take the trouble to compare your player's talent and tools (as opposed to his stats or performance) to the better players in the tournament, it is possible to get a pretty good calibration of his potential." I gave the examples of two baseball players. One who is physically imposing at 13U and one that isn't. One is an early bloomer. One is a physical late bloomer. The larger kid may be done growing at 5'8". The late bloomer will probably grow to be 6'2". The late bloomer will most likely become a better baseball player and a better college prospect (assuming either become prospects) despite the early bloomer would be the kid far more likely to dominate a 13U game. Bottom line: You can't decide who the studs are at 13/14U. The two kids are an example why. It doesn't sense the futures can be determined when a large majority of players haven't passed through puberty and developed by 13U/14U.quote:Originally posted by GapFinder:
But back to TPM question, how does posting the height and weight of 2 kid have relivance to this thread?
quote:Originally posted by GapFinder:
But back to TPM question, how does posting the height and weight of 2 kid have relivance to this thread?
Gapfinder,
Oz will answer TPM's question, it has nothing to do with the topic, which, BTW, began back in August.
CAP ...
If you would like to discuss this further rather than having a third party intruder horn in, please feel free to PM me. I prefer to speak for myself rather than have an intruder tell others what I think.
If you would like to discuss this further rather than having a third party intruder horn in, please feel free to PM me. I prefer to speak for myself rather than have an intruder tell others what I think.
Wait I was not a third party intruder, I asked a question, obviously I didn't understand your answer and neither did some others.
One more time, this thread is entitled 14u Elite 24.
It was about a tournament and someone's perspective tehy gained as a parent of a participate.
Your post, as I may see it, is that this tournament means nothing, other than just for a thrill for competition.
Now that may well be, I am not one to argue that point, have not experience in that tourney. However, I honestly can't see how someone's height, weight and parents dimensions making the HS team has anything to do with 14uElite24.
I was just curious as it appears to me that this has happened a lot lately when you posted as TG. Just wanted you to make clear your new intentions, is it to honestly help others, aid in discussion to make posts meaningful, or just to start the same stuff all over again?
One more time, this thread is entitled 14u Elite 24.
It was about a tournament and someone's perspective tehy gained as a parent of a participate.
Your post, as I may see it, is that this tournament means nothing, other than just for a thrill for competition.
Now that may well be, I am not one to argue that point, have not experience in that tourney. However, I honestly can't see how someone's height, weight and parents dimensions making the HS team has anything to do with 14uElite24.
I was just curious as it appears to me that this has happened a lot lately when you posted as TG. Just wanted you to make clear your new intentions, is it to honestly help others, aid in discussion to make posts meaningful, or just to start the same stuff all over again?
RJM has a point, but not as great a point as he may think.
It is true that some players grow later than others, and that there are "late bloomers" and "early maturers".
But you can often tell which are which at the time, if you are paying attention. Some people are easily fooled, but you don't have to be one of them.
Also, to coin a phrase, size isn't everything.
It is true that some players grow later than others, and that there are "late bloomers" and "early maturers".
But you can often tell which are which at the time, if you are paying attention. Some people are easily fooled, but you don't have to be one of them.
Also, to coin a phrase, size isn't everything.
Separate point: The reason you will see so many top players at the Elite 24 is because (a) you start with teams who were good enough to qualify, which means they were pretty darned good in the first place, and (b) USSSA lets the teams add new players right up to the tourney.
Can you say "ringers"?
All of these teams will be picking up the best players off the teams they beat along the way. Especially pitchers. So, you will no doubt see some of the very best pitching in the class at the Elite 24 every year. In fact, of the three pitchers I mentioned in my earlier post, two of them were ringers brought aboard for that one tourney, at least at the time.
The dark side of that is, sometimes a kid gives his all for a team to make it there, then when he gets there his playing time is taken and given to a ringer. But that's a discussion for another thread. The point of my post above was, you will indeed see some big time young talent at this tourney.
Can you say "ringers"?
All of these teams will be picking up the best players off the teams they beat along the way. Especially pitchers. So, you will no doubt see some of the very best pitching in the class at the Elite 24 every year. In fact, of the three pitchers I mentioned in my earlier post, two of them were ringers brought aboard for that one tourney, at least at the time.
The dark side of that is, sometimes a kid gives his all for a team to make it there, then when he gets there his playing time is taken and given to a ringer. But that's a discussion for another thread. The point of my post above was, you will indeed see some big time young talent at this tourney.
" You can't decide who the studs are at 13/14U. "
For some reason you seem to be missing the point. The kids at the Elite 24 13/14U are the Studs now. will they be tommorrow? who knows. But Athletic ability , gloves, arms and speed have more to say about a kids baseball future than how tall he might be.
For some reason you seem to be missing the point. The kids at the Elite 24 13/14U are the Studs now. will they be tommorrow? who knows. But Athletic ability , gloves, arms and speed have more to say about a kids baseball future than how tall he might be.
Midlodad,
You are correct that TG does have a point, but it has been brought up and discussed in another thread (s) and still not understanding why it was brought in this one.
Done.
You are correct that TG does have a point, but it has been brought up and discussed in another thread (s) and still not understanding why it was brought in this one.
Done.
Wow!-- Almost sorry I asked. When the coach brought this tournament up at the fall parents meeting I wanted to have some understanding before we got started and thought this was the best place to ask.
I want to know - what it takes for a team to get there. Are there too many distractions for players who can be a little immature, therefore being tired and sinking the ship for those boys who are intense and more mature. Costs and if it was a good or bad experience for those who went already. Thats about all I was wondering about.
As for the rest of all this, my kid is big, but, if he does anything with baseball it will be all about him, he's the one who has to put in the work to acheive it. Thats our thought.
I want to know - what it takes for a team to get there. Are there too many distractions for players who can be a little immature, therefore being tired and sinking the ship for those boys who are intense and more mature. Costs and if it was a good or bad experience for those who went already. Thats about all I was wondering about.
As for the rest of all this, my kid is big, but, if he does anything with baseball it will be all about him, he's the one who has to put in the work to acheive it. Thats our thought.
You have to win a qualifying event to get to the Elite 24 as a team. So, you have to join a team that makes that their goal.
Bear in mind that many who set that goal will fall short. So also keep your eyes open for opportunities to jump to other teams, if you really want your son there. In other words, think about whether your son could be some other team's ringer.
Bear in mind that many who set that goal will fall short. So also keep your eyes open for opportunities to jump to other teams, if you really want your son there. In other words, think about whether your son could be some other team's ringer.
My son has played there the last three years and hope to get back this year and play in the stadium. He played with his team as a 11 and 13 year old and picked up with a team as a 12 year old. Finished 5th, 22nd, and last year tied for 3rd. All three experiences were great. Just watching these kids play at this high level is so much fun. I buy a program every year and plan on pulling them out in 10 years to see who made it to the big time. Facility is great, all though its always hot and it always rains. Have a good pair of walking shoes, because the fields are a long way away from the parking lot. I would play in as many Super NIT's as you can. Some of the Super NIT's are really strong, others are small and weak. There are always two or three teams that get at large bids, so if you play 3 or 4 Super NITS and you are highly ranked on the USSSA point system you could get a bid that way.
3FingeredGlove... Great comments
I would say that the experience is well worth the trip (if your team is up for the pressure situations that will arise at these type tournaments) I would suggest going a couple of days early and doing the fun stuff first , get a days rest and be ready to "PLAY BALL".
If you work in advance you can get some pretty good deals on hotels, condos, or theme park tickets for your trip.
Drink plenty of water...It will be very hot and humid if you are not use to it.
I would say that the experience is well worth the trip (if your team is up for the pressure situations that will arise at these type tournaments) I would suggest going a couple of days early and doing the fun stuff first , get a days rest and be ready to "PLAY BALL".
If you work in advance you can get some pretty good deals on hotels, condos, or theme park tickets for your trip.
Drink plenty of water...It will be very hot and humid if you are not use to it.