14yo Pitcher

He looks good to me. Might want to end in a better defensive stance but that surely wasant on his mind in this video. Tall, lanky, good build for the sport from the little I can see. Would be much better to post several pitches to show how consistant his delivery is.

How fast does he throw? Tell us about him.

1) No, do not worry about defensive stance. A pitcher has far too much to worry about than fielding come-backers. For one, the odds are very low during the course of the game that a combacker will occur. Second, to get in the "proper fielding position" requires a weight shift from a) over balance position to slightly left (falling off the mound slightly.. this is actually okay), to b) stepping to right of mound (to get ready for fielding position). Advocating "b" seems a scenario for short-arm action.

2) Elbow slightly low at foot plant.

3) I don't like the stepping back behind the mound during the windup, a common approach of youth pitchers. It screws up the balance and timing. Rather, I'd say stepping to the side is better, allowing the pitcher to stay more balanced and rythmatic.

4) Release out in front more.

micdsguy,

Here are the only other clips I have....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JHe6x-4JARU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VPeKivxzuDA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pquwPoQ7jwM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVCiNXkIhu0

He is about 5'-8", 125lb, 8th grader. He was gunned at 77 max. last fall, but probably threw low 70's in games. Might be a bit faster now. Not a guy who was going to throw it by good hitters, but was pretty effective hitting his spots and changing speeds. Good composure on the mound.

Bum,

I agree with landing falling off to first a little. Regarding taking his rocker straight back, he used to step to the side as you suggest, but found it easier to hit his spots when keeping his head directly on line with his target. Since his motion is relatively slow, he has been able to maintain (or regain?) his balance even with this initial movement. Good points on the low shoulder and releasing out front. Both could affect his velocity (and possibly arm health.)

Apparently the lack of leading with the hip did not stand out to either of you?

Thanks for your comments!

I think that his step behind will allow for better momentum development. I would keep that.

Yes he could lead with the hip better.

He looks to be too careful with his delivery. To slow and controlled. He should try and speed up his delivery. His loading and unloading should be as fluid as possible. He needs to start thinking about throwing the $%#@ out of the ball as soon as he starts his leg lift.

Right now it looks like the last 20% of his delivery he starts to think about that.

It will take time, but keep at it. 77 is pretty good for a kid his age. Try doing more long toss withg him and incorporate those "long toss mechanics" when he's on the bump.

quote:

77 is pretty good for a kid his age

Average HS freshman top-out from my experience (and gun) is about 67-71 for a starter on a decent larger HS team. 77 would probably put him in the top 10-15%, and he's just in 8th grade and still skinny. My experience is that about age 16 is when MOST kids rapidly add speed. He should do well in HS.

micdsguy is correct. A lot can happen with velocity between age 14 and age 18. Here are my son's recorded velocities. Note he's a 5'10" LHP.

Mar04: 68
Mar05: 74
Mar06: 80
Mar07: 84
Mar08: 89

..on the "falling off" the mound thing. A high-3/4 guy should only be falling off ever so slightly. The lower the arm angle the more pronounced the fall.

And remember. You'll get velocity from not only good mechanics but a consistent long-toss program to develop arm speed. That's what worked for Bum, Jr.

It's interesting that there are three paths that fast pitchers follow:

1) Born fast, and improves.
2) Starts even with other little kids but adds speed more quickly.
3) And the rare kid (like Bum's son) who has normal speed thru early HS but keeps gaining at 17, 18, 19 and perhaps beyond.

I think #3 is fairly rare.

Bum,

21 mph increase from 14yo to 18yo is amazing! A great testament to his long toss program. Do you know how much taller he grew over the same time span?

About 5 1/2 inches. I don't get caught up in the height-thing much anymore. It sure hasn't held him back, as he'll be pitching in the Pac-10 starting next year. The curious thing about his velocity improvement is that it has been fairly straight-line and hasn't tapered down much. But definitely I expect that this year. In the World Showcase in Florida in January he was cruising 85-87 Stalker. I'd like to get that to 88 which PG Staff has indicated is an average MLB fastball for a lefty. At least now he'll have plenty of time in college to get there.

quote:

A great testament to his long toss program

For most pitchers, a ton of Long Toss after age 16 or 17 will mainly produce weary and perhaps damaged arms.

Most colleges work pitchers far beyond anything they've done in HS. Some are brutal. But I don't see many college freshman (who can be 17) adding much speed.

I do see many college freshman having TJ and being red shirted for various lesser ailments.

I can think of at least one good HS freshman who had a healthy arm and gained virtually no speed after age 14. 70 MPH freshman-72 MPH senior. But that also is very rare.

Yes, did BUM Jr grow taller at age 17-18?

quote:

Originally posted by micdsguy:

quote:

A great testament to his long toss program

For most pitchers, a ton of Long Toss after age 16 or 17 will mainly produce weary and perhaps damaged arms.

Disagree with this statement. You hear all the time kids gaining velocity after HS.

I would think you could gain velocity up until you're in your early 20's (depending on if the kid is a late bloomer or not).

And if your long toss program is giving you a "weary and damaged arm" then you're doing something wrong and have been for a long time.

quote:

Originally posted by micdsguy:
Long Toss after age 16 or 17 will mainly produce weary and perhaps damaged arms.

Wrong! Wrong! Wrong!. Long-toss helps keep his arm healthy, helps increased arm speed (and thus velocity), and allows him to pitch deeper into games and into the year. He can throw 120+ pitches easy without getting tired, he threw about 145 innings last year, and felt great and threw harder at the end of the year.

I think that he should hold the ready position before starting out just a second longer and have the glove (and whole forearm) more vertical and left elbow tucked a bit more until balance position. Get the right hand and wrist all the way in the glove. Pretty minor but the left hand stuff is one of the differences between HS and more advanced pitchers, generally.

quote:

a ton of Long Toss after age 16 or 17 will

Key word is "ton." I think an 81 mph 17-YO who tries to long toss his way to 90 will be disappointed. Lots of kids do long toss; few hit 90 or even 85 (or EVEN 80!).

Don't want to start on the subject of adding significant speed after HS. I think it's not common, but some experts here have vocally disagreed with me. I know what I have gunned but it's not a huge sample of college age players.

IMHO the few that don't get to 85 (not 90) are contributed to three main factors: 1) Improper mechanics, 2) Lack of long-toss on consistent, year-round basis, 3) Poor conditioning. As for 90, you probably should add God's gift of genetics.

There are many, many kids who gain speed in college. I know PG Staff's kid did. Mainly it's getting bigger and stronger and the college coach helping refine his mechanics. Although Bum, Jr. won't start college til Fall, already he has had pitching lessons from D1 pitching coaches.. not some knucklehead garage "Academy". And no weighted balls or non-stop bullpens. Now, I can't predict the future and say he'll add "x" MPH in college. We're taking this one year at a time.

What is your definition of "ton"? Is it Bum, Jr.'s 5-6x weekly, long-tossing roughly 110-120 throws each time? (Note this is from start-to-finish using the Jaeger approach.)

Every parent of a pitcher has their own idea of what is wrong or wrong, and I can only tell you what has worked for Bum, Jr.

I originally posted this a couple of years ago. I have some new video now. (Not the best quality.) As is evident, his style has changed somewhat. I am curious as to thoughts as to whether the change is a positive one.
Pitch 1
Pitch 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6vQsEdii5kPitch 4

What's the size, age and velocity these days?

CADad,

He is now a 16 year old sophomore. He is 5-10 and about 150lbs. He could use some more muscle on his frame. I am not sure about his velocity. Several months ago he was clocked at 81. Maybe slightly more now. Still not an overpowering pitcher. He can throw his fb, cu and cb all for strikes at any count. Just not sure he will ever get his velocity up enough to play past high school. Genetics not in his favor!

He can certainly play past high school at some level. There's a fairly good chance he'll pick up at least a couple more mph and there are JC's, D3s and NAIA schools out there if he knows how to pitch.

He will likely spend a couple of years here at home at the local JC regardless of whether or not he is able to play after high school. We are lucky that they have a very nice baseball program. Whether or not he will continue to progress enough over the next 2 1/2 years to have a chance to play here, only time will tell.

Any thoughts on the change in style? Obviously he is now leading much more with the hip than he was a couple of years ago. This is something he has only picked up in the last 3 months or so.