1st and 3rd Basepaths

quote:

Originally posted by nickp:
Every schematic/diagram I find that shows the dimensions of a high school baseball field shows the 1st and 3rd basepaths six feet wide centered 3 feet each side of the foul line. However, most fields I see--including the pros--have about 2 feet dirt in fair territory and 4 feet dirt in foul territory along the basepaths. Is there a specification on this?

No. Here’s an excerpt from OBR, Rule 1.04.

… The grass lines and dimensions shown on the diagrams are those used in many fields, but they are not mandatory and each club shall determine the size and shape of the grassed and bare areas of its playing field….

In the NFHS Rule book, Diagram 2 showing the “official measurements”, if you look closely at that diagram, you’ll see that the only width associated with the base path is the 45’ box that leads to 1st base, and that may be on grass, dirt, or both.

Also why do you see a lot of fields filling in there basepaths with grass?

Regarding grass basepaths--I think many field maintenance people come to the conclusion that the grass basepaths are much easier to maintain than dirt basepaths. I am in the middle of trying to rennovate a field that has been neglected for 5 years. The lips around the infield have built up due to dragging--so I am in the process of knocking them down with a machine and will be re-planting grass. So, to answer your question, I think to maintain a field with grass basepaths is probably less work (although I prefer the look of dirt).

By the way--thanks SKeep for pointing out the flexibility of field construction specs. As a followup, the NFHS diagram shows that the grassline along the 1st to 2nd and 2nd to 3rd basepaths are 3 feet indented from the actual lines connecting the bases. Again, I look at most ballparks and that indentation is much less--probably more on the order of 18" to 2 feet. I'm wondering the reason for that--although as you point out--there is flexibility in the construction layout. The only thing I can see is that it makes the grassline closer to the runner--which more or less gives him a better straight line guide between bases...

quote:

Originally posted by nickp:
Regarding grass basepaths--I think many field maintenance people come to the conclusion that the grass basepaths are much easier to maintain than dirt basepaths.

I’m sure you’re at least partially correct in that many maintenance people THINK that the grass basepaths are much easier to maintain than dirt basepaths. Trouble is, either those folks don’t get a lot of play on their fields, or they don’t have much of a clue about how grass responds to a lot of concentrated wear and tear.

quote:

I am in the middle of trying to rennovate a field that has been neglected for 5 years. The lips around the infield have built up due to dragging--so I am in the process of knocking them down with a machine and will be re-planting grass.

What kind of “machine” are you talking about? I’ve got an AA in Horticulture and been maintaining ball fields for many a moon and wasn’t aware that a machine to do that had come out. I’m still using the hose with the pressure nozzle.

Something people don’t realize is, although the vast majority of “buildup” comes from ****-poor dragging technique, there are two other way that probably make up for 20-30% of the problem. Poor raking technique can do more to wreck a field than what people believe! No matter how careful a person is, when they rake, tiny particles of soil fly up and away from the rake, and the faster the rake moves, the more particles are kicked into the air and the farther they’ll go. The only real way to combat that is to make sure all raking is done with a damp soil, but even then it won’t stop all of it.

Raking will also cause more buildup in the direction the rake is moving. IOW, if you rake the baselines “across” rather than “with” the foul lines, not only will the center of the base path be lower than closer to the grass, those little particles will be sent in the direction of the grass, rather than just in random directions.

The other way a lot of soil gets into the grass, is on or because of player’s shoes. The next time you get the chance, watch the feet of the infielders closely. They’re kicking the dirt nervously, plus soil sticks to the bottom of the spikes and will get naturally scraped off in the grass.

quote:

So, to answer your question, I think to maintain a field with grass basepaths is probably less work (although I prefer the look of dirt).

Got take a look at any ball field that has no dirt base paths, has more than 2 games a week and practices on it, and I think you’ll see very quickly why grass base paths could suck the chrome off a trailer hitch!

quote:

By the way--thanks SKeep for pointing out the flexibility of field construction specs. As a followup, the NFHS diagram shows that the grassline along the 1st to 2nd and 2nd to 3rd basepaths are 3 feet indented from the actual lines connecting the bases. Again, I look at most ballparks and that indentation is much less--probably more on the order of 18" to 2 feet. I'm wondering the reason for that--although as you point out--there is flexibility in the construction layout. The only thing I can see is that it makes the grassline closer to the runner--which more or less gives him a better straight line guide between bases...

I think if you actually took tools and measured those fields, you’d find there was more of an indent than you thought. But even if it were true, I’d be willing to bet that somewhere along the line, someone had messed with the original layout. What normally takes place when a field is built, is that someone will get hold of the field specs from MLB. You can see them at http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/downloads/y2008/official_rules/0...ives_of_the_game.pdf

Unfortunately, people putting in fields don’t often realize that the specs used for MLB fields are for fields maintained by a crew made up of someone very highly trained to oversee the maintenance, plus a lot of guys running around taking care of things, and with a virtually limitless budget. That’s a little different than some volunteer at a HS field, doing what he can all by himself, with maybe a few hundred buck to buy some much needed supplies.

Unless someone goes out and cleans the soil from the grass, wherever the two meet, one of two things is going to happen, and usually it will be some combination of both. There will be “lips” built up, and/or the dirt will kill off some of the grass, effectively making the dirt areas larger. The only way to fight those problems effectively, is to clean off the grass after every field use.

I seriously doubt that the grass line being closer to a direct line from 1st to 2nd or 2nd to 3rd is because someone wanted to help the runner find the next base. More likely, if it was even a consideration, that consideration was to keep the ball on the grass as long as possible to slow it down or give the fielders the best hops possible.

But there’s one thing for certain, maintaining a field in tip top shape takes some time, but it takes even more time to try to fix it once its been screwed up.

SKeep--all points well taken. When I say a machine--I have access to the boro bull dozer. Lips were so bad I decided to cut them off about 18" and now in the process of re-planting grass. I've read all the pointers on power washing so I plan on doing that once I get the field back in decent shape.

Back to the grass line question... If you look at the MLB diagram closely you can see that the 1st and 3rd basepaths are 6 feet wide. The 45' restraining box is 3' wide--and by eyeballing the schematic--it looks like the dirt base path straddles the foul line 3 feet on both sides.

However, take a look at any major league game on TV tonight. I think you'll see that the outside part of the restraining box is actually in the dirt...which reinforces to me that the actual dirt basepaths are not centered 3 foot around the baselines. They look to be 2 feet dirt in fair territory and 4 feet dirt in foul territory. By eyeballing the grass line on TV between 1st and 2nd--it also looks more like 2 feet to me.

I know this is a pretty boring issue--but I am at a point where I can put this field back together the way it should be--and I find this grassline issue interesting. I guess I would just love to know the real reason why these grasslines in the pro's seem to be a little different than the specs....

quote:

Originally posted by nickp:
SKeep--all points well taken. When I say a machine--I have access to the boro bull dozer. Lips were so bad I decided to cut them off about 18" and now in the process of re-planting grass. I've read all the pointers on power washing so I plan on doing that once I get the field back in decent shape.

Well, if the lips were as bad as you’re making out, chances are you’ve taken the path of least resistance. I hope it wasn’t so bad that you can’t plant sod.

I don’t know what grass you’re gonna use, but I’ll offer this bit of info. The lower you can keep the grass cut, the easier it will be to wash off the soil. I much prefer reel mowers because they not only can get down to some really short heights, they also have a roller that helps keep bumps down at least a little. Trouble is, some grasses don’t like to be cut short. I’ve gotten used to Bermuda here at our local field. They used to cut it to 3/8th”, and at that height you can easily use a broom on it. But I don’t think Bermuda will work very well where you’re at.

quote:

Back to the grass line question... If you look at the MLB diagram closely you can see that the 1st and 3rd basepaths are 6 feet wide. The 45' restraining box is 3' wide--and by eyeballing the schematic--it looks like the dirt base path straddles the foul line 3 feet on both sides.

However, take a look at any major league game on TV tonight. I think you'll see that the outside part of the restraining box is actually in the dirt...which reinforces to me that the actual dirt basepaths are not centered 3 foot around the baselines. They look to be 2 feet dirt in fair territory and 4 feet dirt in foul territory. By eyeballing the grass line on TV between 1st and 2nd--it also looks more like 2 feet to me.

I know this is a pretty boring issue--but I am at a point where I can put this field back together the way it should be--and I find this grassline issue interesting. I guess I would just love to know the real reason why these grasslines in the pro's seem to be a little different than the specs....

As you should be able to tell by now, it isn’t boring to me! LOL.

If you look closely at all the ML parks, I’ll bet you’ll see that they’re all pretty much at least slightly different. But, If I were you, I wouldn’t worry about how it was as far as aesthetics go. What I’d do is set the base path width between home and 1st and 3rd, to whatever size drag I was gonna use on them, plus at least 6” to have a little leeway.

To me, there’s nothing worse than those base paths that aren’t dragged! There are people who know how to use a landscape rake well enough to put a really smooth finish on soil, but I pretty much guarantee you ain’t gonna find a lot of them volunteering to take care of a baseball field. So, the easy answer is, make them wide enough for the drag!

But remember, even that drawing in the ML Rules is not carved in stone. I remember when they were building what was then Pac Bell Park in SF. My friend’s son worked on the drawings, and I got to see everything from the original blueprints through the as builts, and they were making changes all the time. They even had to get special permission from MLB for the distance to the fence down the line.

In fact, the original plans had a soil path from home plate to the mound like in Detroit, and when the original infield was put in, that’s the way it was. But for some reason they decided to change it, and they yanked the entire IF grass and redid it just because of that.

Here’s a strange hint for ya if ya really want to make the IF top notch. Several years back, we had a carnival set up on our Kommie Kickball field and it overflowed into our 60/90 field. The fields got really torn up pretty bad by all the trucks, and our maint super took a big risk. He decided that it was so bad, he’d have to take drastic steps to fix it, and if that didn’t work, the entire 5 acres would have to be regarded and replanted.

So, he rented an asphalt roller like they use repairing streets. It wasn’t a giant one, but it was fairly good size, and guess who volunteered to drive it? YEAH! Of course it wasn’t very glamorous driving back and forth covering only 6’ at a time over 5 acres, but the whole thing wasn’t torn up. Surprisingly, it did a pretty nice job and only a few spots actually had to be replanted.

But the funny thing was, as I was doing the outfield, I got a brilliant idea. I took that thing over to the IF on the big field and did a back and forth, just to see what would happen. Well, I didn’t hurt a thing, and it seemed to look better, so I did the whole IF from e to w, n to s, ne to sw, and nw to se. I swear, it came out like a pool table! When the folks saw what I’d done on the big field, they squawked until I did it on the small field too, and it came out like a table top too!