when do you think would be the proper time to throw a 4 seamer or 2 seamer, ie 4 seam outside or 2 seam in...and what do you think is the difference in velocity how much of an impact does the difference make?
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You will generally have more control with the four-seamer. The two-seamer may have more movement/sink than the 4-seamer but not always.
Throw whichever one you are most comfortable with and confident you will throw strikes.
Throw whichever one you are most comfortable with and confident you will throw strikes.
once heard from a DI pitching coach that to a hitter, i inch of movement was equal to 3 miles per hour. if your 2-seamer moves, it'll be harder to hit, especially if you mix a 4-seamer in. i'd throw them each regularly and teach my pitchers too, with one exception. if we know a guy on 1st is a good runner, we may try to spot the 4 seamer to help the catcher on occassion if the P has good movement, but thats a gametime adjustment. on the flip side, a 2-seamer tends to have downward movement, so its ideal in a DP situation! if your busting a guy hitting spots, i'd throw a 2-seamer off the plate, he'll chase it!!
Thrown with proper mechanics, the four seam will be the straightest, flattest and fastest pitch. However, the speed difference in a four seam and two seam may only be a mph or two. Often it is not a big difference. Depending upon the individual pitcher, there may be no difference in control.
The two seam should tail in a little when thrown by a RHP to a RH batter.
A two seam to the bottom inside corner (again, assuming RHP & RH batter for illustration purposes) can be a very effective pitch. Ditto for the four seam angled to the outside corner. A four seam angled up & in on the batter's hands can often result in a pop up. A four seam throw on the inside and a few inches above the top of the zone can get a batter chasing the pitch.
Think about the movement of the different grips.
Then think about the batter's characteristics (e.g., RH or LH, stance, stride, swing, etc.).
Then think about the situation and the desired result.
These things will factor into your pitch selection. If you would like some additional info on pitch strategy and selection, just let me know.
A good two seam, four seam and changeup will take you a long way.
The two seam should tail in a little when thrown by a RHP to a RH batter.
A two seam to the bottom inside corner (again, assuming RHP & RH batter for illustration purposes) can be a very effective pitch. Ditto for the four seam angled to the outside corner. A four seam angled up & in on the batter's hands can often result in a pop up. A four seam throw on the inside and a few inches above the top of the zone can get a batter chasing the pitch.
Think about the movement of the different grips.
Then think about the batter's characteristics (e.g., RH or LH, stance, stride, swing, etc.).
Then think about the situation and the desired result.
These things will factor into your pitch selection. If you would like some additional info on pitch strategy and selection, just let me know.
A good two seam, four seam and changeup will take you a long way.
thank you for all your thoughts and opinions, i have thought about mixing in my 4 seam while pitchin although as of late i only throw my 2 seam due to the fact i have been successful with it, but my only problems are occasionaly when im tryin to hit that outside corner for the punch out my 2 seam will end up tailing right down the middle so in those occasions i thought it would be good to use my 4 seam, yet my 4 seam sails leaving the ball up making it an easier pitch for the hitter to hit, but texan if you have any suggestions on what i should do to fix those small problems,would be great
If you have "life" in your release -- most common in those with very strong finger/wrist snap -- then your 4-seamer will NOT be so straight.
A 2-seamer can be used most commonly to sink, to tail, or to combine the two, depending on the release angle you use. You may find that it is actually more predictable, as opposed to a strong 4-seamer, that may have random "hop".
The 2-seam master is of course Greg Maddux. He can start his off the plate inside to a lefty/outside to a righty and have it tail back to nip the corner. But he can also get the same action on the other side of the plate, in reverse. Most pitchers use a cutter for that, but if you "load up" on the middle finger's seam instead of the index finger's seam, it can happen. But it's harder to do, and this is part of what makes Maddux a Hall of Famer.
What I would suggest is that you experiment and see what each grip does for YOU. Then think about pitch sequences/strategies that use your particular tools.
What I would also suggest is that you use both your 4-seamer and your 2-seamer regularly. Why give up use of one pitch just because you think the other is stronger? Your "go to" pitch will work even better for you if the batter has one more thing to think about as he steps into the box.
A 2-seamer can be used most commonly to sink, to tail, or to combine the two, depending on the release angle you use. You may find that it is actually more predictable, as opposed to a strong 4-seamer, that may have random "hop".
The 2-seam master is of course Greg Maddux. He can start his off the plate inside to a lefty/outside to a righty and have it tail back to nip the corner. But he can also get the same action on the other side of the plate, in reverse. Most pitchers use a cutter for that, but if you "load up" on the middle finger's seam instead of the index finger's seam, it can happen. But it's harder to do, and this is part of what makes Maddux a Hall of Famer.
What I would suggest is that you experiment and see what each grip does for YOU. Then think about pitch sequences/strategies that use your particular tools.
What I would also suggest is that you use both your 4-seamer and your 2-seamer regularly. Why give up use of one pitch just because you think the other is stronger? Your "go to" pitch will work even better for you if the batter has one more thing to think about as he steps into the box.
SD, trying to "backdoor" that two seam on the outside corner can be tough as you noted. Especially because of the angle. Your thoughts on going with the two seam for that pitch are sound.
You say your four seam is sailing. Are you using the same wrist snap with both pitches? Are you consistent in exactly where you grip the four seam with respect to the seams? Do you stride toward the outside corner when you throw there? Or do you stride staight ahead and throw across your body? Just a couple of things to check.
Keep working on both.
You say your four seam is sailing. Are you using the same wrist snap with both pitches? Are you consistent in exactly where you grip the four seam with respect to the seams? Do you stride toward the outside corner when you throw there? Or do you stride staight ahead and throw across your body? Just a couple of things to check.
Keep working on both.
i have had a little problem with throwin across my body, therefore me being right handed stepping toward the third base side during my stride, but i have toned that down so its not much of a factor anymore, but when i throw the 4 seam i grip it on the seams as a "C" with my fingers together no space between them, and i recently within the past month changed the way i hold my 2 seamer from actually holdin it on the 2 seams to holding my fingers together on the space inbetween the seams, but i have been workin on tryin to start my 2 seamer more out so my tail brings it right over the corner and it has gotten better but i need to work it a little more, and i think during my next bullpen session i will start mixing in my 4 seam to see what i can do with it
SD
Consider the general movement of each pitch and how you want both moving away from the bat as at moves past the plate. I encourage 2-seamers for all fastballs low in the zone (which is most of them) and 4-seamers up in the zone when you are going up the ladder.
Consider the general movement of each pitch and how you want both moving away from the bat as at moves past the plate. I encourage 2-seamers for all fastballs low in the zone (which is most of them) and 4-seamers up in the zone when you are going up the ladder.
LeeDog, that's not a bad strategy generally, but let me give you some food for thought.
I've always thought you could "teach" a batter what to expect, and then get the out by going against the expectation. The 2 vs. 4-seam question gives us one example.
Suppose you use your 2-seamer twice early in an at bat. Both times it sinks down. The first time the batter follows it down and swings; you get a strike. The next time the batter takes and it sinks low for a ball.
If you can get your second strike somewhere, on a foul or maybe a breaking pitch, an excellent pitch to go for the "backwards K" is the 4-seamer down low. The batter reads fastball down and reacts according to his expectation that this pitch will sink out of the zone -- he takes. But the pitch stays at the knees, and he's toast.
So many times we teach pitchers to get the K when needed with their breaking pitch. But if you set it up right, you can get them looking at the heater. And you don't even have to nibble the corners -- in fact, it's better if you stay aggressive and don't risk missing just off the plate when you had him frozen.
In the meantime the 2-seamer is a ground ball maker, so if the guy puts one of the first two in play, you've probably gotten him out, too.
I've always thought you could "teach" a batter what to expect, and then get the out by going against the expectation. The 2 vs. 4-seam question gives us one example.
Suppose you use your 2-seamer twice early in an at bat. Both times it sinks down. The first time the batter follows it down and swings; you get a strike. The next time the batter takes and it sinks low for a ball.
If you can get your second strike somewhere, on a foul or maybe a breaking pitch, an excellent pitch to go for the "backwards K" is the 4-seamer down low. The batter reads fastball down and reacts according to his expectation that this pitch will sink out of the zone -- he takes. But the pitch stays at the knees, and he's toast.
So many times we teach pitchers to get the K when needed with their breaking pitch. But if you set it up right, you can get them looking at the heater. And you don't even have to nibble the corners -- in fact, it's better if you stay aggressive and don't risk missing just off the plate when you had him frozen.
In the meantime the 2-seamer is a ground ball maker, so if the guy puts one of the first two in play, you've probably gotten him out, too.
SDBaseball, you have a PM.
