2 Teams or 3?

TCB1

Many years ago at Michigan State U. we had 125 players who "turned out" for the Freshman team. We played daily Inter squad games. Only 5 of the 125 players later played in the  College World Series for MSU.

Objective: is to select your Varsity and JV teams now and use your Freshman in daily Inter-squad games. This will prepare the Freshman to replace players on the JV and Varsity, who may not perform to your coaches expectations.

Keep daily records of your freshman.

Bob

TCB1,

It sounds as though you’re used to having what we would consider small teams. This will be the 3^rd year the 8 HSs in our district have only had JV and V teams, and its true, things have changed dramatically.  Some of the schools have gone to the philosophy of deeper cuts and maintain rosters of 15-18, and some have done what ours has. Gone to what you would call huge rosters of 22-28.

The play of the teams hasn’t really changed all that much, but there’s a big difference in the programs. Our VHC and JVHC both give players the option of getting cut or staying on the roster. Staying on the roster means they get to practice and travel with the team, but know there’s a strong chance they won’t get much if any playing time. If they can accept that, they stay on the roster and at least have the opportunity to practice and improve their skills during the spring, then all are welcomed onto the summer and fall squads and have other opportunities to make the team. So far, every player that’s taken advantage of the opportunity has eventually gotten at least some playing time on the Varsity, and are some of the most valued and respected members of the team.

The difference between us and you is, we don’t have the funds for Fr sports, so we don’t’ have a choice. I seriously doubt though that if we all had the opportunity for the 3 teams, it wouldn’t be taken. Its more fun for everyone when there’s more PT to spread around, but since most teaching and learning takes place in practice, the final result isn’t much different.

TCB1,

I don't know the background of your program or league so some of this may or may not apply...

Five or six years ago, a few schools in our league started dropping the frosh program for either budget or numbers reasons.  This made it easier a few years later for the league to drop frosh baseball for budget purposes.

We have never had frosh but after getting the program going in a positive direction, started getting numbers to consider it.  Ideally, I wouldn't want more than 16-18 on a squad.  Any more and it becomes difficult to provide adequate instruction and attention even with three stations going at all times.  I also wouldn't want less than 13.  Of course, you have to factor in how many you typically lose to injury, grades, etc.  It can be a good thing to be in a position to have to make a few cuts but if you have to cut ten or more and they are good kids with potential to play later, I'd make every effort to keep the JV gig going.  IMO, it is also ideal to have 3+ coaches, particularly if your roster is closer to 18 than 13.  So, the number of coaches you have in your system may factor in - sounds like you have two frosh, don't know about the other levels.

Another consideration regarding scheduling - if you drop your frosh for a year, your usual non-league opponents will also have to try to fill that hole and this can have a negative impact on them as well.

Perhaps the biggest consideration - if you have any number of kids who want to play organized ball and you have the capacity to provide that opportunity in a quality manner, you should do all you can to do so.  20 per squad is too many to do so IMO.

Originally Posted by cabbagedad:…20 per squad is too many to do so IMO.

I used to think the same way, but the last 3 years our JV has never had less than 25 players on the roster and the V never less than 24, yet both programs have been EXTREMELY successful.

I think its much more a matter of the HC being willing and able to juggle everything going on and put in the extra time, the players and parents being willing to work in the system, and the starters and 1^st of the bench players significantly superior players to those who don’t get into games very often.

All that really happens with a small roster compared to a large one, is there are fewer players who aren’t satisfied with their playing time, and that generally means less “griping” and “dissatisfaction”. Some coaches can deal with large rosters better than others, but I doubt teams with smaller rosters are generally superior.

I am the head coach at a highly successful school in Southern California.  We have won our league 3 years in a row as well as being ranked in the top 10 in our division every year for the last 5 years and we are the only team with out a Freshman team.  We run two teams and we do not keep kids that can not help us at the Varsity Level.  We might take a flyer on a kid as a but what we do not do is keep around Juniors at the JV level.  If you can not help the Varsity Team as a junior you will be cut.  This might sound a little heartless but at the lower level we truly view it as our minor league program.  Our JV team is incorporated into every aspect of our practice with the exception of hitting, to many players, and in the off season they are incorporated into everything.  Maybe I would view things differently if I was at a school of 4,000 and had solid numbers but at a smaller school I see no reason to fret over having 3 teams.  Put your emphasis on Freshman and Sophomores that will help you as juniors and you will be fine.

COACH; you have very "respective" program. Your system should be used as a guide for success. 

BOB

Stats,

How many games do you play a season?  Would it make a difference in your opinion if there were fewer games played?  Or do those extra players (say players 20-25) pretty much know they aren't getting much playing time?  Ohio only plays 27 games, and quite often, not all of those get played due to weather....

Originally Posted by TCB1:

How many games do you play a season?  Would it make a difference in your opinion if there were fewer games played?  Or do those extra players (say players 20-25) pretty much know they aren't getting much playing time?  Ohio only plays 27 games, and quite often, not all of those get played due to weather....

WE play a max of 30 games a season. To me as the SK, it wouldn’t make any difference if it were 3 games or 300. To me as a parent or player, the more games, the more opportunity for playing time, the more players on the roster would seem to make sense. To me as a pragmatist, I know most “learning” and “teaching” takes place on the practice field, so the number of bames is really immaterial.

In our program at least, there’s no doubt in anyone’s mind that the lion’s share of the playing time is going to the starters and 1^st of the bench players. The others will be used for pinch running, supporting the bullpens during games, and other such things. But plate appearances and pitching appearances will substantially be a rare thing.

I was born and raised in Ohio and know full well what effects the weather has on HS baseball, and that effect can very often be brutal. But again, what our coach is doing has a lot more to do with giving kids who want it, a place to practice and get some instruction during what can only be called a wasteland of non-HS baseball aged opportunities during the HS season.

There just aren’t a lot of places to play during the HS season, other than HS, and around here its especially bleak. Our coach feels its worth his sacrifice in time and trouble to keep the kids who can’t earn playing time but have the desire to play the game, a place to play. Maybe in other places where there’s more opportunity, he’d feel and act differently.

I like what he does! He’s told people over and over that he’s not trying to develop MLB or college players, but rather trying to give kids a place to grow and learn by playing baseball.

Thank you Bob.  To hear that from someone like you means a lot.

I would err on the side of participation.  With the way boys develop, one of your "deeper cuts" could be a kid who has potential, but has not physically developed yet.  If you feel that you will have enough to field three teams, I would do it.