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10 replies

2 umpires - sac fly

C CoachTHusker10+ posts
Happened to us last week. Runners on 2nd and 3rd. 0 outs. Fly ball down the right field line. Home plate umpire had catch. Base umpire had the runner tagging at 2nd. No one watching runner on 3B. I appealed runner leaving early from 3B and they had no response. Can you help me with where they are supposed to be and who is watching what ??

I offered to watch 3B for them but they didn't appreciate that. haha.
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D DECK10+ posts
The play you've just described is one of the toughest mechanics for a 2 man crew, but that's no excuse for the coverage being blown. The base umpire is responsible for BOTH the tags at 2nd and 3rd. If I were the base ump in this situation, I would drift (facing left field) several steps from position C towards the 45' on the 3rd base line...giving me as good an angle as possible to see both 2nd and 3rd. I'd take a quick peek over my right shoulder to check F9's position and the flight of the ball...then LISTEN for the ball to hit the glove while watching the runners.
D dash_riprock1,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by CoachTHusker:
Happened to us last week. Runners on 2nd and 3rd. 0 outs. Fly ball down the right field line. Home plate umpire had catch. Base umpire had the runner tagging at 2nd. No one watching runner on 3B. I appealed runner leaving early from 3B and they had no response. Can you help me with where they are supposed to be and who is watching what ??

I offered to watch 3B for them but they didn't appreciate that. haha.

PU's responsibilities are, in order of priority: 1) fair/foul, 2) catch/no-catch, 3) R3's retouch. PU must not look toward 3rd base until the catch is complete. Whether or not R3 left early is going to be an educated guess by the PU.

A (somewhat) advanced mechanic calls for PU to tell his partner "I'm on the line!" when he determines he will take the ball. He is telling the BU: "I've got the fair/foul & catch-no catch calls, but I probably won't be able to see R3's retouch of 3rd. If you have the chance, can you get it for me? Thanks."

A good BU will then do his best to get a look at the retouches at both 2nd and 3rd. If there is an appeal at 3rd, BU will step up and take the call.

In any event, R3's retouch is the PU's responsibility, and it is impossible for him to judge - with 100% certainty - whether R3 left early.

Get over it. If you want that call to be 99.99% correct 99.99% of the time (we aren't perfect), pay for another umpire. Then you will have a U3 lining up that tag perfectly.
M Matt1310,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by dash_riprock:
quote:
Originally posted by CoachTHusker:
Happened to us last week. Runners on 2nd and 3rd. 0 outs. Fly ball down the right field line. Home plate umpire had catch. Base umpire had the runner tagging at 2nd. No one watching runner on 3B. I appealed runner leaving early from 3B and they had no response. Can you help me with where they are supposed to be and who is watching what ??

I offered to watch 3B for them but they didn't appreciate that. haha.

PU's responsibilities are, in order of priority: 1) fair/foul, 2) catch/no-catch, 3) R3's retouch. PU must not look toward 3rd base until the catch is complete. Whether or not R3 left early is going to be an educated guess by the PU.

A (somewhat) advanced mechanic calls for PU to tell his partner "I'm on the line!" when he determines he will take the ball. He is telling the BU: "I've got the fair/foul & catch-no catch calls, but I probably won't be able to see R3's retouch of 3rd. If you have the chance, can you get it for me? Thanks."

A good BU will then do his best to get a look at the retouches at both 2nd and 3rd. If there is an appeal at 3rd, BU will step up and take the call.

In any event, R3's retouch is the PU's responsibility, and it is impossible for him to judge - with 100% certainty - whether R3 left early.

Get over it. If you want that call to be 99.99% correct 99.99% of the time (we aren't perfect), pay for another umpire. Then you will have a U3 lining up that tag perfectly.


And to piggyback, using this advanced mechanic requires a BU that is baseball-aware. With R2 and R3 and a fly ball down RF line, I (as BU) don't need my partner to tell me that he's got the ball and that he won't have the tag. I also know if there's going to be a play, it's most likely going to be at home or 3rd. This allows me to cheat towards the 45-foot line (that would be in the area between home and third) so that I can see R2 and the ball in front of me and R3 in my periphery, and be in position to make a call on a tagging R2. This, however, sacrifices positioning on throwback to 2B (which I can live with, because if it's on BR, I'll probably have time to get there, and one on R2 is way down on the likelihood scale.)
Jimmy03Jimmy031,000+ posts
This is sometimes known as a "$50 call", meaning, "You want this seen? Hire a third umpire."

Piece of cake in a three man crew.

PU is primary, but as Dash and Matt have indicated he can pass this off to his partner, depending on the difficulty of the fair/foul situation. This should be discussed in a pregame.

Regardless of who takes this, it is not a primary. The umpire needs to open his field of vision as much as practical while taking care of his primaries and then quickly turn his head, not just his eyes, (this demonstrates to coaches and others that he did look) and judge whether or not R3 left early.
JMoffJMoff1,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by Jimmy03:
The worst, without a doubt, is the six man system.


When Jr was 12, we went to Cooperstown, made a run and got to the round of 8. Game was officiated with six umpires on a field with 200' fences. 3rd base and LF U's were within 15' of each other.

They were all just having fun, but it seemed like overkill squared.
Last edited by JMoff
piaa_umppiaa_ump5,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by Matt13:
quote:
Originally posted by Jimmy03:
The worst, without a doubt, is the one-man system.


Fixed that for you. Unless, of course, the other five are named Scott or Lance.


Ahh, the great Lance Cokalinski.......


many a chuckle I've had over the postings of Lance and his umpire musings..

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