2005 college pitch count reports

What is the significance of PAP. How calculated? Is there any study correlating to injuries/T John surgeries? Wouldn't number of injuried pitchers/total on roster be a more reliable measure of pitcher abuse?

Snoop,
Welcome, interesting name.

http://www.boydsworld.com/breadcrumbs/ncaa_pap3.html

You can read and formulate your own conclusions.

Interesting article. On the surface the argument makes sense, pitching is destructive to the arm, arm takes time to heal, etc., so more pitches = more damage. For example the stats in the Arizona Fall League are decidedly tilted towards the hitters with many team ERA's > 6.0. I don't think this is a measure of pitcher quality in this league, maybe just the fact that by now the pitchers are pretty much worn out (but someone here more familiar with the AFL may be able to explain the gaudy offensive stats more effectively). Seems that the better, more reliable pitchers will throw more pitches and have a higher PAP as a result so I'm not sure this really measures 'abuse', certainly it measures 'use'.

I would rather see a compilation of arm injuries/surgeries by school - I think this would be a better indicator of abuse & coaching ability, and if I were evaluating colleges for a pitcher I would investigate the injury trends at the schools of interest.

Snoop,
It's hard to get a good idea of college injuries, as many pitchers that come have already been injured due to overuse in HS or younger.

I find most interesting the information on Mark Prior, his substantial work load in college, were his injuries afterwards a result of that?

The reason I posted this info was although there is no positive proof, I am a strong believer that over use evetually leads to injury. We all know that there is a strong probability that many pitchers will eventually break down, but I feel that the less stress put on a young arm the better, for his future. Of course, good sound mechanics and conditioning are helpful in preventing injuries. Some productive college pitchers are relied on too heavily to "win the game", but for the most part, nowadays, I think that coaches are more aware that a very fine pitchers future may be affected.


I have been watching Boyd Nations report over the past few years and have seen a decline in pitch counts over 125. Some pitchers are able to throw a game or two over what some feel is safe over the pitch count limit, but not on a continual basis. For me, 5-7 category IV starts in a year just doesn't cut it. Either does seeing the same schools every year with high pitch counts for their pitchers.
I feel it is important for a parent of a future college pitcher to be aware of these things.

JMO

quote:

Wouldn't number of injuried pitchers/total on roster be a more reliable measure of pitcher abuse?

Injured pitchers would have to be broken down further to give the best assesment...

If you use a few MLB teams as a for instance
Halladay, Clement, Wells, Schilling, Foulke, Wright, etc....

There was a post in another forum this week about the training staff/managers being responsible for a healthy team. A couple posters immediately responded that this idea was nonsense.....Staying healthy is one of the biggest factors in a team's success. And it ain't easy....

The fly in the ointment here, as I see it, is that the arm injuries in college are not necessarily the result of over use in college. It is , in many cases, the end result of overuse and abuse in HS coupled with improper training in HS.

As for the MLB injuries I dont blame the team trainers because most MLB pitchers have their own trainers and they march to their own drummer

TPM,

Thank you for bringing up Boyd's website. Lots of very interesting stats. I've looked at the site several times since you mentioned Boyd's RPI page.

I especially like the (about Boyd) page. Sounds like a good guy who's not overly caught up in himself. He sure is smart, though! Lots of interesting and valuable stuff. Thanks again.

Thanks Jerry, I consider that a compliment coming from you
So sorry that woodbat in jupiter was interrupted once aain by a hurricane. I personally know how frustrating it must be.
I discovered Boyd's World many years ago while working 2nd shirt supervisor at American Express. It helped pass teh long 10 hour shift days. I really didn't begin to appreciate his statistics, information and reports until son went to college. I especially enjoy reading his leaders pages during season. Don't know how he manages to compile all of that stuff week to week?
Interesting to compare PAP from year to year.

That is a great site. Lots of great info.

Must be nice to not have to put up with hockey. I think half the kids here play hockey all summerand has led to a decline in baseball membership here in Ontario.