[QUOTE] [OK, so this catches me off guard. How does a freshman team play 62 games?/QUOTE]
Just trying to help clarify this since I was a part of that team, that record was a combination of spring and the Sophomore Summer League we had. We went 32-3 in the spring and 19-0 in the summer of that same year.
CP Lake Zurich. Hopefully now you can see how tough it is to win in a one and done tournament. The fact that your team got beat in the first round does not mean that they are not one of the better teams in the state. They have great coaching and one of the best players, Joey Debenardis in the state. As Playball2 said it is very hard to win in a one and done tourney. Hopefully now you can appreciate what Carmel has done....for a long time.
quote:Originally posted by CPLZ:
That may be a big number, but have you watched them play? Who were the wins against? Their play has not been indicitive of their ranking. The ranking is supposed to rank strongest teams, and Carmel has for the past few years, not been a strongest team, and that usually bears itself out when they get in the state tournament.
You have to remember that Lake Zurich has been missing one of their better players in Tanner Witt for most of the year due to an injury. Tanner was primed to have a big year and im sure the Lake Zurich coaches were counting on him to be a major producer for their team.
quote:Originally posted by esccfan:
CP Lake Zurich. Hopefully now you can see how tough it is to win in a one and done tournament. The fact that your team got beat in the first round does not mean that they are not one of the better teams in the state. They have great coaching and one of the best players, Joey Debenardis in the state. As Playball2 said it is very hard to win in a one and done tourney. Hopefully now you can appreciate what Carmel has done....for a long time.
It has only been the last two years that LZ has had any recognition, last year they were two and done, this, one and done. You're assertion of "great coaching" would not rest quietly in LZ.
So to compare the two is folly. Carmel is perenially talked about as a powerhouse.
It does not change my position that Carmel gets more love than it deserves and more benefit of the doubt than most other programs.
Does anyone anywhere really LIKE their coach? That's really a serious question - is the coach at your school well-liked or even just respected for his coaching skill or knowledge of the game?
And CP - we still agree on this one...
And CP - we still agree on this one...
there are a few teams from the SWSC with upcoming juniors who will primarily start. Watch out for Lincoln Way Central, since they began HS their record is 61-12
mythreesons, boy is it easy to rip a high school coach on this board. I am sure many of the people here have played and coached before. If you have coached before did everyone like you? Did everyone respect you? It is sure easy to coach from the sidelines and to second guess a coach and what he does for his school, program, and players. In the Chicagoland area we have some great baseball coaches who know the game very well. I am sure just like any other profession there are those that aren't as good. You are not being very fair to all of the excellent, dedicated, educated, and talented high school coaches out there when you ask "Does anyone anywhere really LIKE their coach? That's really a serious question - is the coach at your school well-liked or even just respected for his coaching skill or knowledge of the game? I can tell you this. I don't coach to be liked by parents. I don't coach for personal achievement. I coach because I love and respect this game and expect the same level of committment from my players. If a parent or a player doesn't like me or respect me I can't control that. As a high school coach it is my job to teach the fundamentals necessary for our team to compete on a daily basis. I have found that there have been many players over the years that don't committ to the fundamentals. They want, want, want, and aren't willing to pay the price for success. Winning and success come from doing things right. Not the other way around.
Here is something else that I have found is a trend in the past few years. SELFISHNESS! I have seen too many players that are more concerned about themselves than about the team. They could care less if the team loses as long as they had their hits, etc. These players pay to go to all of the exposure camps and come back thinking that they know the game inside and out and clearly they don't. I have players that think they are DI or draftable and I laugh because they and their parents have no idea what it takes to compete at this level.
I don't think some people realize the effort a good hs coach will put into his program. Off season conditioning, summer camps, summer league, one on one or small group work, checking on grades and behavior, coaches clinics to attend and give, field work, in season practices indoor and outdoor, parent meetings, college recruiting, budgeting, purchasing equipment, and the list goes on. What a thankless profession this has turned out to be. If a parent's son doesn't play it is easier to blame the coach and to say he doesn't know what he is talking about instead of looking in the mirror. LIKE and RESPECT don't seem to exist on a wide scale in today's selfish me first world.
I personally know Playball2 and know how passionate and knowledgeable he is about this game. Is he any less liked or respected because he didn't win conference, regionals, or state., or win 20 games, or because Johnny Bullpen had a terrible year?
Here is something else that I have found is a trend in the past few years. SELFISHNESS! I have seen too many players that are more concerned about themselves than about the team. They could care less if the team loses as long as they had their hits, etc. These players pay to go to all of the exposure camps and come back thinking that they know the game inside and out and clearly they don't. I have players that think they are DI or draftable and I laugh because they and their parents have no idea what it takes to compete at this level.
I don't think some people realize the effort a good hs coach will put into his program. Off season conditioning, summer camps, summer league, one on one or small group work, checking on grades and behavior, coaches clinics to attend and give, field work, in season practices indoor and outdoor, parent meetings, college recruiting, budgeting, purchasing equipment, and the list goes on. What a thankless profession this has turned out to be. If a parent's son doesn't play it is easier to blame the coach and to say he doesn't know what he is talking about instead of looking in the mirror. LIKE and RESPECT don't seem to exist on a wide scale in today's selfish me first world.
I personally know Playball2 and know how passionate and knowledgeable he is about this game. Is he any less liked or respected because he didn't win conference, regionals, or state., or win 20 games, or because Johnny Bullpen had a terrible year?
If there was a button for " standing ovation " ...I just pushed it. Well said !!!
DC33,
I don't see where anybody ripped thier coach here. I think mythreesons was simply pointing out a pervasive attitude among many parents, and that is that they don't neccisarily "like" their coach. That doesn't mean they don't respect them.
Lets not confuse activity with achievement. People that work very hard but are poor at their jobs, are still poor at their jobs. That doesn't mean that they aren't respected for their dedication. But on the other hand, that dedication shouldn't be counted as the prime element for evaluation either. Bing Crosby was a dedicated parent that abused the tar out of his children. His dedication did not make him a good parent.
The measurement of a good coach factors in a good many facets. These include, talent evaluation, skills evaluation, player development, game management, team principles and ethics, personal work ethic, player motivation, program success, community and parent relations, and the list continues. Being good at one or two of these, does not make for a complete, or neccisarily good coach. Parents are just as quick to discount a coaches good attributes as coaches are quick to discount their own shortcomings, it's just human nature. None of us is perfect, and criticism comes with the territory. It takes big shoulders to be a good coach, it always has.
I chose my words about the coaching here in LZ very carefully, and if you notice, I did not take a stance either way. In a previous post by esccfan, he asserted that the LZ coaches were "great". I simply pointed out that there is some debate about that here among the people of the town.
I don't see where anybody ripped thier coach here. I think mythreesons was simply pointing out a pervasive attitude among many parents, and that is that they don't neccisarily "like" their coach. That doesn't mean they don't respect them.
Lets not confuse activity with achievement. People that work very hard but are poor at their jobs, are still poor at their jobs. That doesn't mean that they aren't respected for their dedication. But on the other hand, that dedication shouldn't be counted as the prime element for evaluation either. Bing Crosby was a dedicated parent that abused the tar out of his children. His dedication did not make him a good parent.
The measurement of a good coach factors in a good many facets. These include, talent evaluation, skills evaluation, player development, game management, team principles and ethics, personal work ethic, player motivation, program success, community and parent relations, and the list continues. Being good at one or two of these, does not make for a complete, or neccisarily good coach. Parents are just as quick to discount a coaches good attributes as coaches are quick to discount their own shortcomings, it's just human nature. None of us is perfect, and criticism comes with the territory. It takes big shoulders to be a good coach, it always has.
I chose my words about the coaching here in LZ very carefully, and if you notice, I did not take a stance either way. In a previous post by esccfan, he asserted that the LZ coaches were "great". I simply pointed out that there is some debate about that here among the people of the town.
quote:Originally posted by DC33:
mythreesons, boy is it easy to rip a high school coach on this board.
DC33, should you or anyone else come across posts that you want reviewed by moderators such as myself, all you have to do is click on the "report button." I wouldn't say, in fairness, that it is easy to rip on anyone on this board. This is not a flaming board. In fact, I'd go further and suggest that some posters have been critical of me and my moderating style in that they feel I protect coaches too much. I'm sorry you feel that coaches get an unfair shake on this board especially since I've coached for most of my life and more than a couple of decades at the HS level as an assistant and as a head coach.
I did not view mythreesons posts as a rip on the coach. Rather, it was a statement suggesting, IMO, that regardless of wheter the coach had success or not, there are people that are not going to be happy. Again, that is how I took his post.
Coach C. 
I didn't think that he was ripping any particular coach. The line that got me a bit fired up was "anyone anywhere". If you were to poll parents from my present and past team (s) and I am saying all of them. You would get some parents that think I am the best most likeable coach ever and others that would run me over if I were crossing the street. It is hard if not impossible to please everyone.
CP I totally agree with you as far as what it takes to be a "great coach". Is a coach that has the horses year in year out (and can recruit)a better coach than someone that has to compete with what comes through the doors in the fall? Am I or anyone else any better when we do have the players one year and not the next. What about this year when my #1 pitcher was ineligible for the final two weeks of the season and we lost in the regional championship game because he was on the bench?
Believe me I can take the heat otherwise I would have been out of this profession long ago.
I am not saying that any one coach or coaching staff was being attacked. I am trying to defend all of the coaches that do a tremendous job day in day out. I have had players that have been great "cage" or "bullpen" guys but when you put them in a game they are a different player. But mom and dad paid some coach $75 an hour and he was great there so why isn't he playing? I have had players play on "elite" summer teams yet can't get regular hs lineups out. What's the deal here?
I think the bottom line here is that players and parents have to take a look and honestly evaluate their son's potential as an athlete. Too many players I have seen only work on the things that they are good at and not enough on those that they aren't. Too many parents think that baseball scholarships grow on trees and just because they went to XYZ university's camp and were invited to 50 other exposure camps their kid must be a scholarship athlete. My advice is to go check out a DI practice not necessarily a game to see the athletes.
There will always be debate on whether or not a coach or staff is the best for the particular team. I got an annonymous letter sent to the superintendent this year asking for me to step down. Not going to happen. I am all for debate. But unless you have been at all of the meetings, preseason conditioning, practices, and games do you really have all the information necessary.
I spell out the expectations of my program before the season with all of the players and parents and I reiterate them throughout the year consistently.
CP I totally agree with you as far as what it takes to be a "great coach". Is a coach that has the horses year in year out (and can recruit)a better coach than someone that has to compete with what comes through the doors in the fall? Am I or anyone else any better when we do have the players one year and not the next. What about this year when my #1 pitcher was ineligible for the final two weeks of the season and we lost in the regional championship game because he was on the bench?
Believe me I can take the heat otherwise I would have been out of this profession long ago.
I am not saying that any one coach or coaching staff was being attacked. I am trying to defend all of the coaches that do a tremendous job day in day out. I have had players that have been great "cage" or "bullpen" guys but when you put them in a game they are a different player. But mom and dad paid some coach $75 an hour and he was great there so why isn't he playing? I have had players play on "elite" summer teams yet can't get regular hs lineups out. What's the deal here?
I think the bottom line here is that players and parents have to take a look and honestly evaluate their son's potential as an athlete. Too many players I have seen only work on the things that they are good at and not enough on those that they aren't. Too many parents think that baseball scholarships grow on trees and just because they went to XYZ university's camp and were invited to 50 other exposure camps their kid must be a scholarship athlete. My advice is to go check out a DI practice not necessarily a game to see the athletes.
There will always be debate on whether or not a coach or staff is the best for the particular team. I got an annonymous letter sent to the superintendent this year asking for me to step down. Not going to happen. I am all for debate. But unless you have been at all of the meetings, preseason conditioning, practices, and games do you really have all the information necessary.
I spell out the expectations of my program before the season with all of the players and parents and I reiterate them throughout the year consistently.
.
We all know that Bing was dreaming of a White Christmas...his kids were probably thinking "all I want for Christmas is to keep my two front teeth!"
quote:Originally posted by CPLZ:
Bing Crosby was a dedicated parent that abused the tar out of his children. His dedication did not make him a good parent.
We all know that Bing was dreaming of a White Christmas...his kids were probably thinking "all I want for Christmas is to keep my two front teeth!"
as a former high school player...I can tell you one thing...I had and still have nothing but the upmost respect for my coach....Based on the circumstances i was under, going into my senior year...He never in his right mind had to pick me...but he thought I could help his team....he gave me a 2nd chance and i made the most of it and for him to do that....it meant the world to me.....And i know for a fact that the players on my team wouldnt have wanted to play for anyone else....we were taught the value of being a team when we played hs baseball....and it was because of our two coaches that we learned to work as one
LPbaseball 44 You must have had one heck of a coach!! I am glad to hear good things from one of my own. Thanks Phil! It was a pleasure of mine to have had you with us. I know that you had grown and matured into a fine young man. I was happy to have given you that opportunity.
I absolutely was NOT ripping on high school coaches. I was expressing amazement at the number of times that I see a program that is successful and then hear that the coach is STILL not universally well thought of by players, parents or the community. You wonder what it would take to be well thought of in the coaching profession. And I know that coaches don't coach to be liked by parents or players, but I bet it would make it easier to enjoy your job if you weren't facing constant criticism...
In our case, our coach is very, very good at some things and just OK at others - I constantly encourage parents to see the things that he does that are good (he's very big on character, for example, which I happen to think is a big, big deal) and to realize that one person is not going to be the best at everything... it's just not possible. And also to consider that beauty is in the eye of the beholder... what's important to one is not always important to another.
So the question was a real one, and definitely not intended to disrespect anyone or to cast aspersions on the coaching profession.
In our case, our coach is very, very good at some things and just OK at others - I constantly encourage parents to see the things that he does that are good (he's very big on character, for example, which I happen to think is a big, big deal) and to realize that one person is not going to be the best at everything... it's just not possible. And also to consider that beauty is in the eye of the beholder... what's important to one is not always important to another.
So the question was a real one, and definitely not intended to disrespect anyone or to cast aspersions on the coaching profession.
mythreesons. I appreciate your last post. I have no problem with the criticism because I understand that it is part of the game.
Streator should be able to hold their own with some of the states best. Will get early test in Galesburg tournament, then play IVC, L-P, and perennial small school power Putnam County. They are young, mostly juniors, and maybe a year away from making a serious run into the state playoffs. Pitching should be a strength for the Bulldogs this year and next.
dnick, I like what you are saying. Move this to the 2009 thread instead of the 2008 one. You may get more hits.