For the Upcoming 2010 baseball season who will be the top preseason teams IN Private School Baseball in 2010 and who is rebuilding.
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STAB and PVI should be back in the State playoffs.
I would have to believe that Greenbriar Christian will be right back at the top of this list. They lost a lot of talent, but they seem to always reload with their younger players and transfers.
Look for Benedictine and Bishop O'Connell to be back in the DI rankings as always. The program to watch in DII is Atlantic Shores. Also expect good things from Cape Henry under a great first year coach. Bishop Sullivan will be young again, but it looks like they have some talented transfers and first year students.
The best D1 privates schools will be Trinity and St. Christopher's. Benedictine and STAB will be competitive, but have lost key players. PVI is always competitive, and one must think they will continue to be. Cape Henry had some huge wins last year, so you have to think they will be a contender for the state playoffs. There are 6, best I can do.
Lets not forget who made it to the state semis last season, and the game they played against PVI was pretty close. Flint Hill could be a contender with their pitching and defense, but lets see if they can hit
STAB, St. Christopher's and PVI have owned the VISAA Div I State Championship in the 21st Century. No reason to think anyone else would change that trend in 2010. The thing is, it only takes one great outing from one good pitcher, and a mental error here or there by the better team, and on any given day, you never know.
Anyway, if I were a betting man, I'd put money on PVI in 2010. I would put alot of money on PVI if these things were best of 5 or best of 7 series. PVI is stacked at pitcher, the hitting order will not have any easy out in it, and the defense should be much improved. Costello and McGee anchor the pitching staff. Both are college Div I players. Ruffin may contribute more than anyone is anticipating. Juniors Kidd, Frezza, and Veeder would be #1s or #2s on most HS staffs. They go about 8 deep at pitcher. There will be power and speed in the lineup. Against most teams, PVI will score better than 10 runs. And the defense will be much better, since almost every players returns having made, Coach Emerson hopes, all of their errors last year (and defense was a huge weakness last year that few teams exploited). Will wait to see who catches--regardless, it won't be a player of Chad Morgan's caliber, so there will be a drop-off there.
But here is the scary part--PVI will be better in 2011!
Anyway, if I were a betting man, I'd put money on PVI in 2010. I would put alot of money on PVI if these things were best of 5 or best of 7 series. PVI is stacked at pitcher, the hitting order will not have any easy out in it, and the defense should be much improved. Costello and McGee anchor the pitching staff. Both are college Div I players. Ruffin may contribute more than anyone is anticipating. Juniors Kidd, Frezza, and Veeder would be #1s or #2s on most HS staffs. They go about 8 deep at pitcher. There will be power and speed in the lineup. Against most teams, PVI will score better than 10 runs. And the defense will be much better, since almost every players returns having made, Coach Emerson hopes, all of their errors last year (and defense was a huge weakness last year that few teams exploited). Will wait to see who catches--regardless, it won't be a player of Chad Morgan's caliber, so there will be a drop-off there.
But here is the scary part--PVI will be better in 2011!
melkman makes a good point - FH have seemingly decided to improve their BB program, and were able to recruit a # of NoVa players. It's leading to some interesting conflicts as PVI have long viewed the weaker BB schools' (e.g. Fairfax) programs/areas as "their" territory.
A surging FH & PVI should make for good competition - they're only a mile or so from each other.
As an aside, I notice that PVI has (seemingly) started to trade speed for a bit more power....
PS - Don't forget ND's VISAA Championship in 07!
A surging FH & PVI should make for good competition - they're only a mile or so from each other.
As an aside, I notice that PVI has (seemingly) started to trade speed for a bit more power....
PS - Don't forget ND's VISAA Championship in 07!
FH is also a mile from Oakton, 4 miles from Madison and 5 miles from Chantilly, 5 miles from South Lakes. There are plenty of ball players in the area to draw from. FH has invested in their program, they can play more than 19 regular season games, compared to public schools, and academically they are very solid.
Flint Hill costs over 30K a year to attend, so they are obviously only able to "recruit" kids whose parents are willing and able to fork over that type of money. Its a great private school academically, but the notion that it's worth going there solely for baseball the way that many kids do at PVI is ludicrous.
While they have made some huge strides under Coach Freeman since he came on board, the conference they play in is terrible. They do play more games than the public schools, but the quality of competition they play in conference is not good at all.
I have a ton of respect for Coach Freeman, for the job he's done with Flint Hill's program, and for the strides they've made. However, my opinion is that as long as they play in the MAC (??), they are going to be at a serious disadvantage from PVI because of the comparitive strength of the WCAC vs. Flint Hill's conference.
While they have made some huge strides under Coach Freeman since he came on board, the conference they play in is terrible. They do play more games than the public schools, but the quality of competition they play in conference is not good at all.
I have a ton of respect for Coach Freeman, for the job he's done with Flint Hill's program, and for the strides they've made. However, my opinion is that as long as they play in the MAC (??), they are going to be at a serious disadvantage from PVI because of the comparitive strength of the WCAC vs. Flint Hill's conference.
No one is saying that FH is going to compete head to head w/PVI on a purely baseball basis.
You are right in that the relatively low cost of PVI, compared to many other private schools, helps their recruiting situation with respect to both public, and many other private schools. They aren't that expensive (compared to public) and they are a bargain (compared to some private).
The fact that FH baseball has improved, gives parents/players (that can afford it) more choices than they used to have as they evaluate their options. PVI continues to attract more players than they can reasonably play, and some who want more guarantee of playing time for their investment (no matter how large the $), may attend FH instead.
You are right in that the relatively low cost of PVI, compared to many other private schools, helps their recruiting situation with respect to both public, and many other private schools. They aren't that expensive (compared to public) and they are a bargain (compared to some private).
The fact that FH baseball has improved, gives parents/players (that can afford it) more choices than they used to have as they evaluate their options. PVI continues to attract more players than they can reasonably play, and some who want more guarantee of playing time for their investment (no matter how large the $), may attend FH instead.
quote:Flint Hill costs over 30K a year to attend
Not quite - it's approx $10K diff between PVI & FH.
There are a number of PVI boosters/supporters/fans now upset (in a fashion) w/FH for "poaching" or being the "upstart" in what many at PVI have long considered "their" territory - the huge swath from south of Burke to the beltway, around & out to Leesburg, the home of roughly 1M people.
Ludicrous? That's a harsh word, and I must strongly disagree. PVI now has competition for players. Either accept that fact or not... (and a # of PVI folks I've known for many, many years are not accepting it well at all)
I can understand what vabaseballfan is saying, but also need to remind that no one is saying anyone is going there SOLELY for baseball. Just trying to make a point that as far as private school baseball goes, and the upcoming season, don't think anyone should count Flint Hill out based on their past season success, not only in the weak MAC (which is accurate), but in their State game play (beating a ranked opponent in Bishop Ireton) as well as their showing in last year's state tournament; beating a strong program in O'Connel and giving PVI a good 6-3 game in the state semis. Not bad for a school that is practically an unknown in the VA baseball world and one that plays in an obvious weaker
regular season division.
regular season division.
Well, I dont really consider myself a PVI fan at all so I have no specific interest in the conversation. However, as a simple fan of high school baseball in Northern Virginia, I'll elaborate on the point that I was trying to make earlier.
In addition to strength of schedule, the other obvious difference to me in PVI vs. FH, or any other private school team with FH's enrollment and tuition is DEPTH. While PVI probably has 5-8 kids on their roster every year who end up playing D1 baseball, FH may have 1-3. As someone mentioned earlier, this doesnt mean anything on any given day (i.e. FH playing PVI closely in a state semi-final game), but it means over the course of a 25 + game schedule they are simply not going to perform at the same level. Pick whatever reason you want for this fact (tuition, size of school, reputation, academic rigors, whatever) but it is a fact.
O'Connell? Ireton? Beating these teams certainly serve as proof that Flint Hill is improving, but I would hardly refer to these wins as an indication that Flint Hill is becoming a powerhouse or that PVI should be worried about having their talent pool poached. PVI dominates these schools year in and year out in the WCAC (yes.....I know that BI beat them recently in their conference tournament).
Again, I really respect the improvements that are being made at Flint Hill. They are definitely on the right track and Freeman will keep making them better. On another note, what are the chances they could ever join the IAC? This would seem to be a much better and more competitive fit for them........in ALL sports. St. Albans is definitely an example of a local private school program that is expensive and elite, yet is still one of the area's best teams year in and year out. It would seem to me that playing the likes of St. Albans, St. Stevens, and Georgetown Prep in conference play would make a lot more sense for Flint Hill than playing St. James, St. Andrews, and the other schools that quite frankly are just not very good at all.
In addition to strength of schedule, the other obvious difference to me in PVI vs. FH, or any other private school team with FH's enrollment and tuition is DEPTH. While PVI probably has 5-8 kids on their roster every year who end up playing D1 baseball, FH may have 1-3. As someone mentioned earlier, this doesnt mean anything on any given day (i.e. FH playing PVI closely in a state semi-final game), but it means over the course of a 25 + game schedule they are simply not going to perform at the same level. Pick whatever reason you want for this fact (tuition, size of school, reputation, academic rigors, whatever) but it is a fact.
O'Connell? Ireton? Beating these teams certainly serve as proof that Flint Hill is improving, but I would hardly refer to these wins as an indication that Flint Hill is becoming a powerhouse or that PVI should be worried about having their talent pool poached. PVI dominates these schools year in and year out in the WCAC (yes.....I know that BI beat them recently in their conference tournament).
Again, I really respect the improvements that are being made at Flint Hill. They are definitely on the right track and Freeman will keep making them better. On another note, what are the chances they could ever join the IAC? This would seem to be a much better and more competitive fit for them........in ALL sports. St. Albans is definitely an example of a local private school program that is expensive and elite, yet is still one of the area's best teams year in and year out. It would seem to me that playing the likes of St. Albans, St. Stevens, and Georgetown Prep in conference play would make a lot more sense for Flint Hill than playing St. James, St. Andrews, and the other schools that quite frankly are just not very good at all.
You're making my point - why would PVI consider any area "their talent pool"?
Sure, PVI has some depth. FH has been actively improving their program for a grand total of 2 years, and yes, PVI folks are getting more & more, well, peeved.
That's the kind of competition that will improve the state of the game. It would be fun to see PVI play FH on a regular basis - but I'm guessing that the PVI folks won't see it that way.
Pretending that the strength of a given conference somehow improves a given team just doesn't fly as well - did Fairfax improve over the past 1/2 decade after being moved to the then Concorde district?
Sure, PVI has some depth. FH has been actively improving their program for a grand total of 2 years, and yes, PVI folks are getting more & more, well, peeved.
That's the kind of competition that will improve the state of the game. It would be fun to see PVI play FH on a regular basis - but I'm guessing that the PVI folks won't see it that way.
Pretending that the strength of a given conference somehow improves a given team just doesn't fly as well - did Fairfax improve over the past 1/2 decade after being moved to the then Concorde district?
No. Faifax did not improve. That could not be less relevant to what I thought we were talking about though, which was "talent pools", "recruiting", and whatever other terms apply to what makes a private school attractive to baseball players. Fairfax has no say whatsover in who enrolls in their school and they can't and obviously don't recruit.
Strength of schedule, and getting to play St Johns and the likes as part of their CONFERENCE schedule is something that will always make PVI more appealing to top baseball players than playing a MAC schedule. I understand there are other factors, but Im talking baseball only here.
Strength of schedule, and getting to play St Johns and the likes as part of their CONFERENCE schedule is something that will always make PVI more appealing to top baseball players than playing a MAC schedule. I understand there are other factors, but Im talking baseball only here.
As we all are.
You brought up strength of schedule.
2 keys - As FH continues to improve, they will find it easier to recruit better players, and since they & PVI share geography, they will go head to head for players.
In the past, the vast majority of those looking to play @ private schools in this area went to PVI - it wasn't a choice, per se, but rather a lack of options. Today, said players may (and are in increasing numbers) attend FH. To claim otherwise is, well... a river in Egypt. :-)
You brought up strength of schedule.
2 keys - As FH continues to improve, they will find it easier to recruit better players, and since they & PVI share geography, they will go head to head for players.
In the past, the vast majority of those looking to play @ private schools in this area went to PVI - it wasn't a choice, per se, but rather a lack of options. Today, said players may (and are in increasing numbers) attend FH. To claim otherwise is, well... a river in Egypt. :-)
In baseball, Fairfax has the same talent level they always had. They will be competing in Liberty this year which has some very good teams and some so so ones. Fairfax will be middle of pack in the Liberty.
Has Oakton lost some of their luster and are some potential Oakton kids considering FH as well? I don't know how many, if any, players PVI has taken from Madison and/or Oakton, but it has to be some. Without Rowland, and with losing some of its enrollment to South Lakes, Oakton baseball is not quite where it was. Granted they had fantastic 2008 class, so they are not at that level regardless.
Has Oakton lost some of their luster and are some potential Oakton kids considering FH as well? I don't know how many, if any, players PVI has taken from Madison and/or Oakton, but it has to be some. Without Rowland, and with losing some of its enrollment to South Lakes, Oakton baseball is not quite where it was. Granted they had fantastic 2008 class, so they are not at that level regardless.
Couldn't agree more w/ vabaseball in regard to FH joining the IAC or another, if available, league in which to play. I can only agree that when a team plays in a weak division, they play to that level. In the case of FH, I believe they step up when the task calls for it. Still, I think they could get more out of their team, when it really counts, if they played in a more competetive division. I am willing to bet that teams in MAC would like to see them go also.
PVI has lost some players to West Springfield. Not sure if PVI picked up kids from Oakton, but in this economy, the trend is going from Private to Public.
"I can only agree that when a team plays in a weak division, they play to that level"
Hm. Wonder what Charlie Manuel would say to that...
:-)
Hm. Wonder what Charlie Manuel would say to that...
:-)
There are going to be exceptions, but speaking of the NLEast: NY Mets?? Great individual athletes playing down to the likes of the Marlins, Nats etc... Just trying to make a point that "on average" you get better results at the end of the day based on the hard work you go through to get there
I cannot think of a single person who might be "peeved" that FH is "poaching" players from PVI. That is, to use the word, ludicrous. If anyone would have concern, it would be Coach Emerson at PVI, but given his track record, I doubt he cares what any of these other schools does. He concerns himself with the kids he has and making them into champions. That is it.
Congratulations to FH on its improving situation with respect to baseball. But does any player or parent choose to go to a $30K per year school for baseball? Now, if FH gave away baseball scholarship money, maybe. But otherwise, the answer is no. If someone decided his local public school was not the right school for him, and chose to go private, and if that person wanted to focus on baseball as his main extracurricular activity, then PVI is ALOT cheaper (what, maybe $10K for an Arlington Diocesan Catholic?). Moreover, PVI's academic reputation is now such that colleges look at PVI 3.75 GPA as the equivalent of a SSSA, BI, O/C, or even St Alban's or GPrep 3.75 GPA.
PVI as a school and as a baseball program may be the best bargains in private education in NoVa. Football? It is way down. Basketball? We'll see where it goes. But baseball--probably, year-in and year-out, the best program in the greater metropolitan area and state of Virginia (St. John's would be the only contender, though DeMatha and St. Alban's would want to argue to the contrary).
Yes, FH could beat PVI on any given day. As could BI, or SSSA, or any public school. But in a 5 or 7 game series, no way. PVI's pitching depth, especially this year and next, is almost unheard of at the HS level.
As for the exchange of speed for power, I don't know about that. It may be worth comparing the 2008 team's numbers with the 2010 team's numbers. The 2008 kids had both a ton of HRs and SBs. But Kianka, Veeder, McGuigan, and a few others are awfully fast.
With respect to pilfering public school players--I don't think Emerson does that. I am sure he does not do it in his own backyard (not to Pudge, anyway). If he did, why wouldn't Veeder's longtime teammate Luke Willis move from Oakton to PVI? Can you imagine PVI with another 5 or 6 pilfered players of that caliber. The kids who play at PVI come to PVI--PVI does not go out and get them.
By my count, based upon websites, the private schools breakdown financially something like this (assumes a kid is an Arlington Catholic):
--PVI, BI, and O/C: about $10K to $12K per year;
--FH: about $28K to $30K per year;
--SSSA: about $25K per year.
I don't see a kid going to FH or SSSA strictly for baseball. It makes no sense.
I would love to know, Jess, where you are hearing about PVI's attitudes towards FH's success. I just don't buy it. I also think it something negative to put out there if, in fact, there is no truth to it. I would appreciate it if you would let us in on where you found that.
Congratulations to FH on its improving situation with respect to baseball. But does any player or parent choose to go to a $30K per year school for baseball? Now, if FH gave away baseball scholarship money, maybe. But otherwise, the answer is no. If someone decided his local public school was not the right school for him, and chose to go private, and if that person wanted to focus on baseball as his main extracurricular activity, then PVI is ALOT cheaper (what, maybe $10K for an Arlington Diocesan Catholic?). Moreover, PVI's academic reputation is now such that colleges look at PVI 3.75 GPA as the equivalent of a SSSA, BI, O/C, or even St Alban's or GPrep 3.75 GPA.
PVI as a school and as a baseball program may be the best bargains in private education in NoVa. Football? It is way down. Basketball? We'll see where it goes. But baseball--probably, year-in and year-out, the best program in the greater metropolitan area and state of Virginia (St. John's would be the only contender, though DeMatha and St. Alban's would want to argue to the contrary).
Yes, FH could beat PVI on any given day. As could BI, or SSSA, or any public school. But in a 5 or 7 game series, no way. PVI's pitching depth, especially this year and next, is almost unheard of at the HS level.
As for the exchange of speed for power, I don't know about that. It may be worth comparing the 2008 team's numbers with the 2010 team's numbers. The 2008 kids had both a ton of HRs and SBs. But Kianka, Veeder, McGuigan, and a few others are awfully fast.
With respect to pilfering public school players--I don't think Emerson does that. I am sure he does not do it in his own backyard (not to Pudge, anyway). If he did, why wouldn't Veeder's longtime teammate Luke Willis move from Oakton to PVI? Can you imagine PVI with another 5 or 6 pilfered players of that caliber. The kids who play at PVI come to PVI--PVI does not go out and get them.
By my count, based upon websites, the private schools breakdown financially something like this (assumes a kid is an Arlington Catholic):
--PVI, BI, and O/C: about $10K to $12K per year;
--FH: about $28K to $30K per year;
--SSSA: about $25K per year.
I don't see a kid going to FH or SSSA strictly for baseball. It makes no sense.
I would love to know, Jess, where you are hearing about PVI's attitudes towards FH's success. I just don't buy it. I also think it something negative to put out there if, in fact, there is no truth to it. I would appreciate it if you would let us in on where you found that.
I heard Greenbrier had some transfers this year, I think Michael Curry and some others. Greenbrier Christian should have a talented pitching staff with Mcdonald and Curry on the mound.
Hobbs, youre right. Why would Emerson concern himself w/ other schools, especially while he is still winning championships. If anyone is looking for a private school, and the focus is baseball, PVI is the answer, no doubt. I also agree w/ it being the best bargain around for the private school as Hobbs has hit the tuition rates right on.
Don't think anyone can argue that PVI and St. Johns have more depth than most. Kianka, Veeder, Costello to name a few are top notch players. There is a hotbed of talent spread all over the Northern Region, PVI just seems to have a bit more than most as is obvious in their past season performances. Coach Emerson does a wonderful job coaching them year in and out.
Playing in a 5-7 series is always the way to decide better depth, but match up a #1 lineup against another #1 and this is what you get in highschool baseball (public or private) not a series. This string should be about who will come out on top at the end, and anyones guess is as good as the next. There are a bunch of top programs out there, but it is interesting listening to everyones opinion on who and why one is better than the other.
Don't think anyone can argue that PVI and St. Johns have more depth than most. Kianka, Veeder, Costello to name a few are top notch players. There is a hotbed of talent spread all over the Northern Region, PVI just seems to have a bit more than most as is obvious in their past season performances. Coach Emerson does a wonderful job coaching them year in and out.
Playing in a 5-7 series is always the way to decide better depth, but match up a #1 lineup against another #1 and this is what you get in highschool baseball (public or private) not a series. This string should be about who will come out on top at the end, and anyones guess is as good as the next. There are a bunch of top programs out there, but it is interesting listening to everyones opinion on who and why one is better than the other.
Only Willis can truly answer for what he did, but he is exceptional multi-sport athlete at Oakton. I would venture that playing for Oakton's outstanding football and outstanding baseball programs trumped playing for PVI's lousy football and outstanding baseball program despite whatever his long term relationship is w/Veeder.
By the way, haven't both PVI and FH picked up kids that might have otherwise been at Notre Dame, if the meltdown there hadn't happened?
Regardless, parents and kids help recruit and encourage other players and their families that they grow up playing with or competing with well before high school. Most high school coaches provide information and additional encouragement/discouragement to prospective players. Might some parents/players be dissappointed if a player they wanted to be with them at school X chose school Y? Sure, but this is just the standard jockeying/dialog that goes on between baseball fathers and sons and their counterparts.
Emerson is fine coach. PVI has a great program. The growing baseball successes of FH will provide an additional attractive feature for their school and its students. Families will continue to gather information and consider public/private options that fit their needs and budgets.
3,5 or 7 game series? Other than volleyball or tennis matches, all high school sports are decided in one game. Regular season results set up post season seeding, post season games are usually win or go home, unless, in the case of VA public schools, you can advance to the next round if you make the semi's (districts) and finals (regional).
By the way, haven't both PVI and FH picked up kids that might have otherwise been at Notre Dame, if the meltdown there hadn't happened?
Regardless, parents and kids help recruit and encourage other players and their families that they grow up playing with or competing with well before high school. Most high school coaches provide information and additional encouragement/discouragement to prospective players. Might some parents/players be dissappointed if a player they wanted to be with them at school X chose school Y? Sure, but this is just the standard jockeying/dialog that goes on between baseball fathers and sons and their counterparts.
Emerson is fine coach. PVI has a great program. The growing baseball successes of FH will provide an additional attractive feature for their school and its students. Families will continue to gather information and consider public/private options that fit their needs and budgets.
3,5 or 7 game series? Other than volleyball or tennis matches, all high school sports are decided in one game. Regular season results set up post season seeding, post season games are usually win or go home, unless, in the case of VA public schools, you can advance to the next round if you make the semi's (districts) and finals (regional).
NDA's loss was PVI's gain last year, but the impact was limited in some respects. Cody Reeves, a senior transfer, played OF for PVI and batted in the middle of the order. However, for whatever reason, he struggled at the plate, striking out some 25-30 times and hitting, maybe, an honest .200. Still, he was a senior anchor on defense and in the dugout, and was important to their success. Torey Mancari, another senior transfer, started out as a key player, but he, too, struggled terribly at the plate. He essentially was benched. But then someone (Coach Nolan?) got the bright idea to actually give him a chance on the mound (his real strength from the very beginning). He turned out to be their best pitcher and was THE key to their winning their Championships. Still, he sat for half the season, so, while a big player in the team's success, his impact was somewhat limited to only the second half of the season.
David Phillips was a soph transfer who is no longer at the school (in a Loudon Co. public school for a range of reasons, as I am told). There is also a catcher somewhere on the depth chart (3?) who was a soph transfer last year. Both of these played limited time at JV level.
So, the impact was really a one year thing, and only because Reeves and Mancari were standout players and kids.
One thing about Oakton--I don't think it is anywhere close to PVI in baseball. At least not year-in and year-out. Better in football, yes, but cannot stack up in baseball.
If sorting out a betting line for the VISAA Div I Championship for 2010, I'd give PVI about even odds. Anyone else is about 5:1 or even higher. PVI should be that good with the pitching they have. One never knows with injury, eligibility, and psychology, but the talent is there to win it all again to make it three straight. Then, four straight would be very realistic for them in 2011.
In fact, I would predict 1st Team All-State for Costello, McGee, and Kianka, with Costello and McGee having ERAs below 2.00 and Kianka hitting about .450 with at least 6 homeruns and 25 SBs. Veeder should be in that mix as well, but I don't know what his health is since his knee injury over the summer. If he is healthy, he joins the All-State club, hits .450 with 6 homeruns and maybe 15 SBs.
David Phillips was a soph transfer who is no longer at the school (in a Loudon Co. public school for a range of reasons, as I am told). There is also a catcher somewhere on the depth chart (3?) who was a soph transfer last year. Both of these played limited time at JV level.
So, the impact was really a one year thing, and only because Reeves and Mancari were standout players and kids.
One thing about Oakton--I don't think it is anywhere close to PVI in baseball. At least not year-in and year-out. Better in football, yes, but cannot stack up in baseball.
If sorting out a betting line for the VISAA Div I Championship for 2010, I'd give PVI about even odds. Anyone else is about 5:1 or even higher. PVI should be that good with the pitching they have. One never knows with injury, eligibility, and psychology, but the talent is there to win it all again to make it three straight. Then, four straight would be very realistic for them in 2011.
In fact, I would predict 1st Team All-State for Costello, McGee, and Kianka, with Costello and McGee having ERAs below 2.00 and Kianka hitting about .450 with at least 6 homeruns and 25 SBs. Veeder should be in that mix as well, but I don't know what his health is since his knee injury over the summer. If he is healthy, he joins the All-State club, hits .450 with 6 homeruns and maybe 15 SBs.
The Oakton from 2000-2008 was the peer of PVI as a program, with both teams peaking in 2007/2008. Scott Rowland w/Oakton, as Emerson did with PVI, got the most out of his talent, attracted kids to move into the school system (as Emerson attracted many, too many in some cases, players whose families could afford the tuition and transportation), and as result Oakton and PVI had numerous high regular season and tournament appearances. You could argue either way on the relative difficulty of winning a Northern region title (and proceeding to state tournament) versus winning a WCAC title, but the VIS tournament (winning 3 games to win it all) was no where near as tough as winning the Virginia public school state tournament (again, taking 3 straight wins). The competition across the public school state in a one and done format is just much tougher by comparison. As for developing players for higher level ball, Rowland sent many players to D-1, D-2 and D-3 programs, as did Emerson and PVI.
If you want to get into the inherent differences that playing 30+ games that PVI could do in addition to year round coaching that Oakton is not able to do, then fine, go there. This ground has been covered previously. Certainly you need more pitching to handle a larger game schedule, and PVI has/needs more pitching depth, no doubt.
Since Rowland left, Oakton has been hit by the loss of students in redistricting, the loss of Rowland as drawing card and field coach, and the inevitable fall back that occurred from 2008 to 2009 given the loss of multiple D-1 and D-3 players. PVI had less of a fall, but just as the Northern Region talent was off somewhat in 2009 vice 2008, only a 2009 or higher WCAC/PVI father would argue that the WCAC in 2009 and the VIS in 2009 was even remotely as talented as both were in 2008. In reality, someone much closer to the PVI program than I would be the better judge of one year to the next, but it should be expected that a team dominated by 3 year starting seniors (eg 2008) would be better than a team dominated by underclassmen (2009). The better comparison will be 2008 versus 2010, so that's good fodder for discussion...and again, in one game, anything can happen. As for your hypothetical 7 game series, would you take PVI 2008 or PVI 2010?
As for the impact of the ND meltdown being a one year thing, are talented baseball playing freshmen who want a private school education again choosing ND? If not, this may be a gift that keeps giving to PVI even if only 1-2 players some years and 0 in some years.
If you want to get into the inherent differences that playing 30+ games that PVI could do in addition to year round coaching that Oakton is not able to do, then fine, go there. This ground has been covered previously. Certainly you need more pitching to handle a larger game schedule, and PVI has/needs more pitching depth, no doubt.
Since Rowland left, Oakton has been hit by the loss of students in redistricting, the loss of Rowland as drawing card and field coach, and the inevitable fall back that occurred from 2008 to 2009 given the loss of multiple D-1 and D-3 players. PVI had less of a fall, but just as the Northern Region talent was off somewhat in 2009 vice 2008, only a 2009 or higher WCAC/PVI father would argue that the WCAC in 2009 and the VIS in 2009 was even remotely as talented as both were in 2008. In reality, someone much closer to the PVI program than I would be the better judge of one year to the next, but it should be expected that a team dominated by 3 year starting seniors (eg 2008) would be better than a team dominated by underclassmen (2009). The better comparison will be 2008 versus 2010, so that's good fodder for discussion...and again, in one game, anything can happen. As for your hypothetical 7 game series, would you take PVI 2008 or PVI 2010?
As for the impact of the ND meltdown being a one year thing, are talented baseball playing freshmen who want a private school education again choosing ND? If not, this may be a gift that keeps giving to PVI even if only 1-2 players some years and 0 in some years.
Not sure how this got into an Oakton vs. PVI. or FH. But here is what little knowledge I have about Oakton/Willis - Willis choose Oakton (over Annandale) when Rowland was there. Rowland left. I think the boy has established himself as a top athlete there, so why leave? Rowland left, Carroll came on board for JV and he (Carroll) and Willis have coached together and kids have played together for as long as Veeder and Willis.
Not sure why somebody would even say PVI is annoyed about poaching players, Emerson to my knowledge does not recruit - he does not have to they come to him.
Not sure why somebody would even say PVI is annoyed about poaching players, Emerson to my knowledge does not recruit - he does not have to they come to him.
"Emerson to my knowledge does not recruit - he does not have to they come to him"
And such was my point - does anyone wonder why that is?
At the risk of further threadjacking:
1)PVI will be one of the best
2)As will FH
3)FH will (seemingly) continue their efforts to improve
4)This (3) will have an impact on the program @ PVI. To deny this is simply naive.
As to RH - seems I touched a nerve, so thanks for providing some evidence of my assertions. In the future, though, please don't misquote me.
I live a short distance (Driver - middle iron) from PVI & have watched more games/events there over the decades than I can count. My wifes "best" friend's son plays there now, and spent time @ my house last weekend, and lastly, I had an eerily similar discussion (impact of FH)w/a well known Lay supporter of PVI/baseball program. So I do stick w/my assertions.
J
And such was my point - does anyone wonder why that is?
At the risk of further threadjacking:
1)PVI will be one of the best
2)As will FH
3)FH will (seemingly) continue their efforts to improve
4)This (3) will have an impact on the program @ PVI. To deny this is simply naive.
As to RH - seems I touched a nerve, so thanks for providing some evidence of my assertions. In the future, though, please don't misquote me.
I live a short distance (Driver - middle iron) from PVI & have watched more games/events there over the decades than I can count. My wifes "best" friend's son plays there now, and spent time @ my house last weekend, and lastly, I had an eerily similar discussion (impact of FH)w/a well known Lay supporter of PVI/baseball program. So I do stick w/my assertions.
J
Jess: I don't know what the heck you are talking about. Your post is nonsensical. Are you quoting another post with your enumerated points? I have no idea how I would have provided any "evidence" for you assertions and I certainly did not misquote you in any way. Finally, your anecdotal rumor-mongering over cocktails at your wife's friend's house is not an acceptable form of proof that FH is poaching PVI players (or potential PVI players) and that Emerson and the PVI crowd is "peeved" about it. You have offered nothing of substance in this regard, and I am certain you cannot.
PVI will be just fine, regardless of what FH does.
Superball: Oakton was a fine program, most certainly, but PVI has been, since Emerson first State Championship, a dominant program. Now, as for earlier in the decade, I will not argue. Emerson has been the key at PVI, and he did not get that program firmly established and into a dominant position until about 2006-07. But from the time the 2008 grads were sophomores (spring 2006) through 2011, PVI will have about a .800 winning percentage, will have won countless championships, and will have sent dozens of players to Div I programs. Oakton is simply not at that level. And, since that 2006 year, my best guess would be that PVI, in any of those years, would have beaten Oakton in a 5 or 7 game series--probably in fewer than the required number of games.
With respect to NDA--I am not aware of any 2012 or beyond players at PVI who hail from Loudon County or any of the traditional NDA area. I may not have that correct, and would invite someone inside PVI to educate us on that.
PVI will be just fine, regardless of what FH does.
Superball: Oakton was a fine program, most certainly, but PVI has been, since Emerson first State Championship, a dominant program. Now, as for earlier in the decade, I will not argue. Emerson has been the key at PVI, and he did not get that program firmly established and into a dominant position until about 2006-07. But from the time the 2008 grads were sophomores (spring 2006) through 2011, PVI will have about a .800 winning percentage, will have won countless championships, and will have sent dozens of players to Div I programs. Oakton is simply not at that level. And, since that 2006 year, my best guess would be that PVI, in any of those years, would have beaten Oakton in a 5 or 7 game series--probably in fewer than the required number of games.
With respect to NDA--I am not aware of any 2012 or beyond players at PVI who hail from Loudon County or any of the traditional NDA area. I may not have that correct, and would invite someone inside PVI to educate us on that.
"I don't know what the heck you are talking about"
I'll let that statement stand on it's own.
You continue to misquote me (e.g., you continue to claim that I mentioned PVI's coaches when I have not - I don't know them, but I do know a number of PVI baseball supporters and sponsors). At this point, I do not know if you have some agenda vis a vis PVI, or if you're simply being disingenuous.
You also continue to misrepresent costs & other issues in comparing the two schools, yet you claim that I offer nothing of substance.
Certainly PVI will do well - as will FH. Perhaps someday, FH will do better than PVI. Not today, though.
I'll let that statement stand on it's own.
You continue to misquote me (e.g., you continue to claim that I mentioned PVI's coaches when I have not - I don't know them, but I do know a number of PVI baseball supporters and sponsors). At this point, I do not know if you have some agenda vis a vis PVI, or if you're simply being disingenuous.
You also continue to misrepresent costs & other issues in comparing the two schools, yet you claim that I offer nothing of substance.
Certainly PVI will do well - as will FH. Perhaps someday, FH will do better than PVI. Not today, though.
Oakton has fallen off the top rung of the NR public baseball level, there is not debate about that. The loss of Rowland, the loss of some enrollment are contributing factors.
As for PVI and their "dozens of players" heading to D-1 programs, by my count from the PVI website, they've sent 14 players to D-1 programs from 2006-2009. They need another 10 in 2010-2011 to make 24 -- two dozen. It could happen.
Of the 12 from 2006-2008, half are at their second school or not playing college baseball this year. Is this a typical percentage for players heading to D-1 schools? I intend no criticism of PVI with this question, I'm just wondering about the transfer/quit rate for D-1 players. Playing baseball and doing well academically in college is no easy feat.
As for PVI and their "dozens of players" heading to D-1 programs, by my count from the PVI website, they've sent 14 players to D-1 programs from 2006-2009. They need another 10 in 2010-2011 to make 24 -- two dozen. It could happen.
Of the 12 from 2006-2008, half are at their second school or not playing college baseball this year. Is this a typical percentage for players heading to D-1 schools? I intend no criticism of PVI with this question, I'm just wondering about the transfer/quit rate for D-1 players. Playing baseball and doing well academically in college is no easy feat.
14 players is a pretty impressive for a 3 year tally. It would be interesting to know if their offers were the result of playing for PVI or for playing for the Canes/Braves or Showcase/Camp invites.
Most players do not get D1 offers by merely playing for their HS team. I don't know if PVI is the exception.
Most players do not get D1 offers by merely playing for their HS team. I don't know if PVI is the exception.
quote:Certainly PVI will do well - as will FH. Perhaps someday, FH will do better than PVI. Not today, though.
Maybe someday BI will do better, or O'Connell, or DeMatha...
14 is 4 year total (06-09), but nonetheless impressive. These kids have played for a lot of serious summer/fall teams. Multiple played for Ron Tugwell coached Virginia Cardinals, starting with Tugwell as 15's. Some played with Barnstormers and 1 or 2 with Canes (Morgan?). Bowers played a summer or two with Oriolanders, I believe, which helped his early signing with ECU. Verdin played with Midland Redskins for 3 summers. I don't know of any (06-09)who played with Braves organization but maybe some of the 2010, 2011, 2012+ are now or will in the future.
Superball -
My point was -Did these players get recognized because of the HS ball? or their showcase team, regardless of the organization. Or, prospect camps?
I don't know of many schools that can produce 4 D1 players per year.
My point was -Did these players get recognized because of the HS ball? or their showcase team, regardless of the organization. Or, prospect camps?
I don't know of many schools that can produce 4 D1 players per year.
"I'm just wondering about the transfer/quit rate for D-1 players"
There was an NCAA report some years ago (late 90's IIRC) that looked at this & found that non scholarship athletes dropped a given sport @ their first school at a pretty high rate - somewhere around 50% or so (again, IIRC).
I'd guess it's (dropping a sport) is fairly common.
There was an NCAA report some years ago (late 90's IIRC) that looked at this & found that non scholarship athletes dropped a given sport @ their first school at a pretty high rate - somewhere around 50% or so (again, IIRC).
I'd guess it's (dropping a sport) is fairly common.
Every one of these players were in different circumstances.
For the no-doubt D-1s, soph and junior PVI years plus quality showcase teams (and performance) earned them early signing offers. Verdin, Bowers, and Morgan were definitely in this group.
For the non-early signees, strong performance during their PVI senior seasons was the probably the determining factor in D-1 offers. Showcase teams put them on the radar as 'follows' for D-1, but outstanding senior PVI seasons solidified real (or higher level D-1) offers. Lamas, Moore, Shaw, Mitchell, Murakami, McMenamin, Wiegand, Costello, Reeves, Ralston, McCormack would be in this group, IMO.
Prospect camps might have been part of the process to introduce a player to a given school, or vice versa, to introduce school to player, but someone closer than I to these individuals would have to provide specifics. I wouldn't think any offers were achieved based on prospect camps alone.
I agree with the advice on the PVI website that pertains to recruiting. Essentially it says that playoffs and all star teams are determined during high school seasons (there are none for showcase teams) -- and making these teams is an effective tool in helping strong players get recognized. So for the truly outstanding player, showcases teams are the most critical in determining high offers. Might some of these other players who got D-1 offers only received a D-2 or D-3 offer if they had played for their public school. I would say maybe yes. While they might have gotten a D-1 at their local public school, playing well for PVI helped push them over the top.
For the no-doubt D-1s, soph and junior PVI years plus quality showcase teams (and performance) earned them early signing offers. Verdin, Bowers, and Morgan were definitely in this group.
For the non-early signees, strong performance during their PVI senior seasons was the probably the determining factor in D-1 offers. Showcase teams put them on the radar as 'follows' for D-1, but outstanding senior PVI seasons solidified real (or higher level D-1) offers. Lamas, Moore, Shaw, Mitchell, Murakami, McMenamin, Wiegand, Costello, Reeves, Ralston, McCormack would be in this group, IMO.
Prospect camps might have been part of the process to introduce a player to a given school, or vice versa, to introduce school to player, but someone closer than I to these individuals would have to provide specifics. I wouldn't think any offers were achieved based on prospect camps alone.
I agree with the advice on the PVI website that pertains to recruiting. Essentially it says that playoffs and all star teams are determined during high school seasons (there are none for showcase teams) -- and making these teams is an effective tool in helping strong players get recognized. So for the truly outstanding player, showcases teams are the most critical in determining high offers. Might some of these other players who got D-1 offers only received a D-2 or D-3 offer if they had played for their public school. I would say maybe yes. While they might have gotten a D-1 at their local public school, playing well for PVI helped push them over the top.
Getting recognized by a college is primarily a function of "playoffs" whilst additional potential players are discovered @ on campus programs. So called "Showcase" teams will give a player some additional good competition & tryout skills, but they won't get one additional "looks" (despite their [the teams] fevered advertising).