Some pretty good matchups. Who have you got for the title?
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Rays
Giants over Rays.
(I hope)
#28 for the evil empire.
My son and 6 teammates are at the Yanks vs Sox.... They are way out there but in the park.
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@Gunner Mack Jr. posted:My son and 6 teammates are at the Yanks vs Sox.... They are way out there but in the park.
Awesome place too see a big league ballgame. I’ve been to many at Fenway and it never disappoints.
@2022NYC posted:#28 for the evil empire.
Sucks when the very first game busts your bracket.
Money will keep a team consistently in the hunt. Typically the rest of the well run teams come and go as they develop talent and lose it.
It was great for about twenty years as a Boston fan the question for the four teams most of the time wasn’t can they compete for their division. The only question was can they win it all.
Most fans of a 14-2 football team would be convinced their team can win it all. There was a year despite being 14-2 Patriots fans knew the team didn’t have the defense to outgun three straight quality teams.
Baseball used to be two stud starters and a stud closer can get the job done as long as those two starters don’t lose. Now, with starters only going five or six innings it takes a complete bullpen.
@JCG posted:Sucks when the very first game busts your bracket.
Well at least it wasn't the pain of a #1 seed loss like I suffered in College basketball over the years
A couple of barbs from my beantown colleagues
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Just have to say that the Dodgers-Cards game was pretty thrilling. Not just the ending, but the whole game.
Four of the last five world series champs had the best record in the regular season.
But Houston to win it.
@Dominik85 posted:Some pretty good matchups. Who have you got for the title?
My brain say Rays over Dodgers for the World Series, and the Red Sox will be swept in the ALDS.
My heart says no Rays sweep of Red Sox in ALDS. Yes, I know I have high expectations.
@fenwaysouth posted:My brain say Rays over Dodgers for the World Series, and the Red Sox will be swept in the ALDS.
My heart says no Rays sweep of Red Sox in ALDS. Yes, I know I have high expectations.
Sox starters can’t go more than five when they get that far. Their bullpen has stunk for a month. They played .500 ball after the all star break. I have no expectations. I just didn’t want to lose to the Yankees.
The only (slim) shot the Sox had was Rodriguez winning game one (didn’t expect it to happen) followed by a Sale win. Then let the chips fall where they may. That’s now out the window.
This Sox team exceeded expectations for a half season. If has a lot of weaknesses now and moving forward.
The Sox haven't really developed enough starting pitching in the last 10 years. They developed some good hitters but they needed to always sign or trade for pitching which is raiding the farm and getting expensive plus it leaves you short in case of injuries.
Over the last 10 years the Sox had mostly good hitting but only just enough pitching so to compete they needed anyone to reach their ceiling and stay healthy.
This caused a lot of inconsistencies, some years pitching was good and they win 93 and other year two pitchers get hurt and 3 under perform and then they win 78.
@Dominik85 posted:The Sox haven't really developed enough starting pitching in the last 10 years. They developed some good hitters but they needed to always sign or trade for pitching which is raiding the farm and getting expensive plus it leaves you short in case of injuries.
Over the last 10 years the Sox had mostly good hitting but only just enough pitching so to compete they needed anyone to reach their ceiling and stay healthy.
This caused a lot of inconsistencies, some years pitching was good and they win 93 and other year two pitchers get hurt and 3 under perform and then they win 78.
I fully expect a different approach with the farm system and talent development with Chaim Bloom running the show. If Dombrowski was still there he would have traded away future prospects for a bag of magic beans. I've done a full 180 degree turn on Chaim Bloom, and I have a lot of confidence in his ability to spot value and not do something that is going to hamstring the club for the future.
He got skewered in the media for not making some trades at the deadline this year. I admit I was one of those knuckle-dragger-fans demanding a big name-at-the-deadline just a couple months ago. He showed me that he is sticking to his organizational philosophy come hell or high water. I'm a believer. We've got a keeper in the front office.
@Dominik85 posted:The Sox haven't really developed enough starting pitching in the last 10 years. They developed some good hitters but they needed to always sign or trade for pitching which is raiding the farm and getting expensive plus it leaves you short in case of injuries.
Over the last 10 years the Sox had mostly good hitting but only just enough pitching so to compete they needed anyone to reach their ceiling and stay healthy.
This caused a lot of inconsistencies, some years pitching was good and they win 93 and other year two pitchers get hurt and 3 under perform and then they win 78.
Last ten years? The last drafted starter that showed anything for multiple season was Buchholz drafted in 2005. He’s remembered more for injuries and unfulfilled potential. The last consistent winner drafted was Jon Lester in 2002.
You don’t win four championships in fifteen years without pitching. But, it was all acquired by free agency and trades.
I don’t have any problem with Dombrowski trading away the ranch to win a championship. Most teams would do the same just to win once. But, the team will ultimately pay the price. Dombrowski is not the guy you want in charge of a rebuild.
Don’t listen to Tony from Meffid ** (calling Felger and Spaz) who knows it all because he coached a LL team to a championship. The Sox didn’t need a big trade at the deadline. The Sox can’t afford to give up prospects just to have a better chance to win one round in the playoffs. The surgeon general has determined listening to sports radio causes brain damage.
The Sox are in a state of flux and rebuilding. They exceeded expectations this year. Winning 92 this year doesn’t mean they won’t play .500 or under ball next year.
You couldn’t name half of next season’s pitching rotation and bullpen at the moment. You could only guess. The Sox desperately need a reliable #2 pitcher behind Sale. With the exception of Whitlock they need a bullpenectomy.
** If you want to piss someone off from Medford call them a Meffie.
If this was the Haywood Sullivan years the Sox would have brought in a washed up Marichal or Seaver and tried to convince us they were still Hall of Fame pitchers who would make a difference.
It’s so loud when either the Rays or Sox do something it’s hard to tell who is the home team. There must be a lot of Sox fans at the game.
@RJM posted:It’s so loud when either the Rays or Sox do something it’s hard to tell who is the home team. There must be a lot of Sox fans at the game.
In the past, I know many fans "in the Nation" that fly to Tampa to see a game or series. I've done it a couple times and it is cheaper overall when you include ticket cost, ticket availability, transportation and hotel. Apparently this is still a trend even with jacked up Jet Blue tickets based on the noise at the "Trop" last night. The only bad thing about the "Trop" is that it is a "Trop". While I refer to Fenway as a dump sometimes..... it is a historic dump with quirky seating arrangements....and it is our dump. The "Trop" has nothing going for it other than available seating.
@fenwaysouth posted:The only bad thing about the "Trop" is that it is a "Trop".
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I don’t mind the Trop. They’ve done a decent job with what they have to deal with. I’d like to see something in east Tampa. You’d be able to pull some west Orlando and the Lakeland area. You’d lose some St Pete fans but they don’t go as it is so who cares. You’d definitely pick up a bunch of the Tampa fans.
@fenwaysouth posted:In the past, I know many fans "in the Nation" that fly to Tampa to see a game or series. I've done it a couple times and it is cheaper overall when you include ticket cost, ticket availability, transportation and hotel. Apparently this is still a trend even with jacked up Jet Blue tickets based on the noise at the "Trop" last night. The only bad thing about the "Trop" is that it is a "Trop". While I refer to Fenway as a dump sometimes..... it is a historic dump with quirky seating arrangements....and it is our dump. The "Trop" has nothing going for it other than available seating.
I didn’t burn frequent flyer miles going to see my daughter play softball in Tampa. Jet Blue was too inexpensive to burn miles. She did notice I was very partial to coming to watch in February and March.
I try to make sure I’m in Philadelphia on business and to see my kids when the Sox are in Baltimore on the weekend. I buy $10 obstructed view seats. Then I sit ten rows behind the dugout.
Once past historic Fenway is a dump underneath. But it’s my history of fandom. I spent a lot of time there as a kid. My first MLB game was watching the Yankees at Fenway in 1961.
Imagine how you would respond today if your 14yo kid told you he took the T into Boston and went to a MLB game by himself? I did it. I knew friends were there. Miraculously I ran into them among 34,000 fans.
The Rays averaged 9,000 a game for a 100 win team. They’re favorites to go to the World Series and only sell 65% of the seats. I don’t care how bad the stadium is or where it’s located. This is pathetic.
The owner is already talking about split city residence.** When MLB says no and there isn’t a new stadium in 2028 I’m guessing the Rays pack up and leave completely with total support from MLB leadership and ownership.
** Only a desperate free agent would agree to live in and pay for two cities in the same season. A player with kids likely wouldn’t consider it all.
@RJM posted:The Rays averaged 9,000 a game for a 100 win team. They’re favorites to go to the World Series and only sell 65% of the seats. I don’t care how bad the stadium is or where it’s located. This is pathetic.
The owner is already talking about split city residence.** When MLB says no and there isn’t a new stadium in 2028 I’m guessing the Rays pack up and leave completely with total support from MLB leadership and ownership.
** Only a desperate free agent would agree to live in and pay for two cities in the same season. A player with kids likely wouldn’t consider it all.
I heard this is more a move to put pressure on the city or state because they don't want to pay for a new stadium in California with tax payer money.
The ownership would prefer a stadium in Tampa instead of st Pete but there is no traction for them getting a new stadium there
San Diego refused to build a football stadium for the Chargers. Rams ownership completely financed Sofi in LA. The Athletics are struggling with the Oakland city council about a new stadium. The Raiders gave up and left. Raiders ownership had to pay 60% of the financing for Allegiant. Even while Vegas was desperate to steal away the Raiders Clark County only paid 40%.
The days of cities giving free stadiums to billionaires is over. It should be. Cities have more pressing issues. Rays fans have seven years to learn how to properly say “au revoir” to their team. Using Bill Belichick vernacular, “We’re on to Montreal.”
I'm holding out hope that the Rays or Athletics move to Nashville...
The Red Sox have returned to over performing. It’s the right time for it.
Have to say I'm kind of bored of the Dodgers. But, Mookie - wow.
@RJM posted:San Diego refused to build a football stadium for the Chargers. Rams ownership completely financed Sofi in LA. The Athletics are struggling with the Oakland city council about a new stadium. The Raiders gave up and left. Raiders ownership had to pay 60% of the financing for Allegiant. Even while Vegas was desperate to steal away the Raiders Clark County only paid 40%.
The days of cities giving free stadiums to billionaires is over. It should be. Cities have more pressing issues. Rays fans have seven years to learn how to properly say “au revoir” to their team. Using Bill Belichick vernacular, “We’re on to Montreal.”
I've always thought that if a municipality fully or partially finances a stadium for a team it should acquire an ownership stake in that team.
@anotherparent posted:Have to say I'm kind of bored of the Dodgers. But, Mookie - wow.
Mookie had a nice game. Mad Max was great in relief (1st career save), but terrible call and way to end the series (phantom check swing).
@Ripken Fan posted:Mookie had a nice game. Mad Max was great in relief (1st career save), but terrible call and way to end the series (phantom check swing).
Yeah, that left a mark. So did Eddings missing two pitches in the same Kris Bryant at bat.
https://twitter.com/UmpireAudi...837832902995973?s=20
Oh, well, @That's Baseball .
The officiating has been flat-out awful, across the board. Not an excuse for the Giants loss, they should have scored more runs. Bad calls do however affect a batters approach. The phantom called third strike...
@RJM posted:The Red Sox have returned to over performing. It’s the right time for it.
Hold that thought. Chris Sale is starting ALCS game 1 tonight against the Astros. He had TJ surgery 18 months ago, and is not the Chris Sale of yesteryear just yet. I'm having a difficult time thinking positive thoughts, and wondering if Cora has lost his mind. I hope Sale proves me wrong and I'm the idiot....and that is all I have to say about that.
When the Sox played great the first half of the season I figured they were grossly over performing or MLB sucks. I had them for 74-78 wins. When the played .500 ball the second half figured that's who they are. They were playing .500 in September. Even that couldn't knock them out.
I've had no expectations. I just wanted them to beat the Yankees in one game. I didn't think there was any chance in hell they would beat the Rays. Sox pitching sucks.
I don't think the Astros are any better or worse than the Sox. I can't even put up a delusional arguement for why the Sox should win. I can't be disappointed. I can only be pleased.if they win.
I didn't even bother to read the justification for starting Sale. Let the over performing continue.
@Picked Off posted:The officiating has been flat-out awful, across the board. Not an excuse for the Giants loss, they should have scored more runs. Bad calls do however affect a batters approach. The phantom called third strike...
From The Athletic (worth every penny, highly recommend):
“But when they (the Giants) saw the umpiring crew they drew for the series, alarm bells immediately went off. Crew chief and Game 3 plate umpire Ted Barrett’s 92.6 percent accuracy score calling balls and strikes was tied for 15th worst among 90 umpires to work at least 10 regular-season games. He was tied with Angel Hernandez, who drew the plate for Game 2. And Eddings not only had the 12th-least accurate zone, but his 0.16 average leverage index, a measure of the average absolute value of the run impact of each missed call across all games, was the worst in the major leagues.
The Giants, who built so much of their offensive success on zone discipline, and who would be facing the best pitching staff in the National League, felt that they would get just one better than average plate umpire, Pat Hoberg, in the series. They knew the umpiring crew would make a critical impact on the series one way or another. There was vigorous discussion over why umpires who rated so poorly, both in terms of metrics and reputation, would be assigned not only to a postseason series, but to one involving two highly successful, highly disciplined teams that featured the two lowest chase rates in the major leagues. This was a series and a matchup that by its nature would make a bad umpire uncomfortably stick out.
“I don’t know if you noticed how often we swung at early-count fastballs,” one Giants player said. “We had to change our approach. We knew it as soon as we saw who the umpires would be. You can’t leave it up to them.”
“We drew three total wild cards.”
The grumbles were less a complaint or excuse and more of a lament. After all, the Dodgers had to play with the same uncertainty behind the plate. The general feeling in the Giants clubhouse: It was just too bad that Major League Baseball assigned a crew like thatto a series like this.
“Like, how?” said one Giants source. “How did we draw such an awful crew?”
In their final game of the season, a Giants offense that posted the second-lowest chase rate in the major leagues drew no walks and struck out 13 times.“
Fascinating. Thanks for sharing, Senna.
Thanks for sharing the article @Senna. I know I'm going to catch a lot of sh*t for this, but I'll say it anyway.....for all that is holy please bring in the robo-umpires to call balls and strikes. I'm tired of this idea that "we've got to keep the human factor alive in the game". No we don't, we really freaking don't!
I'm your typical MLB fan today...I'm 59 years old and I've loved the game since I could say "Rico Petrocelli". At 59 I've embraced technology in my life and made a career of it. It can do very positive things for our everyday lives. Other major and minor sports across the globe have gone in that direction. All major tennis tournament line calls have gone 100% to computers through Artificial Intelligence and Machine Learning. There are no tennis player line call arguments and play continues. It really is that simple. If a computer can handle service line calls in the 130-140mph range it most certainly can learn and handle anything else with the video technology available today. Baseball is in need of a major overhaul. The money is too big and we've got to grow the fan base as we compete with other sports that use technology. If professional baseball want to appeal to younger generations they have to move forward with the use of technology otherwise baseball is going to become the sport that only grandmas and grandpas follow.
Sorry, end of rant. I'm cranky when the Red Sox lose. I'd be significantly crankier if I was a Giants fan.
@Senna posted:From The Athletic (worth every penny, highly recommend):
“But when they (the Giants) saw the umpiring crew they drew for the series, alarm bells immediately went off. Crew chief and Game 3 plate umpire Ted Barrett’s 92.6 percent accuracy score calling balls and strikes was tied for 15th worst among 90 umpires to work at least 10 regular-season games. He was tied with Angel Hernandez, who drew the plate for Game 2. And Eddings not only had the 12th-least accurate zone, but his 0.16 average leverage index, a measure of the average absolute value of the run impact of each missed call across all games, was the worst in the major leagues.
The Giants, who built so much of their offensive success on zone discipline, and who would be facing the best pitching staff in the National League, felt that they would get just one better than average plate umpire, Pat Hoberg, in the series. They knew the umpiring crew would make a critical impact on the series one way or another. There was vigorous discussion over why umpires who rated so poorly, both in terms of metrics and reputation, would be assigned not only to a postseason series, but to one involving two highly successful, highly disciplined teams that featured the two lowest chase rates in the major leagues. This was a series and a matchup that by its nature would make a bad umpire uncomfortably stick out.
“I don’t know if you noticed how often we swung at early-count fastballs,” one Giants player said. “We had to change our approach. We knew it as soon as we saw who the umpires would be. You can’t leave it up to them.”
“We drew three total wild cards.”
The grumbles were less a complaint or excuse and more of a lament. After all, the Dodgers had to play with the same uncertainty behind the plate. The general feeling in the Giants clubhouse: It was just too bad that Major League Baseball assigned a crew like thatto a series like this.
“Like, how?” said one Giants source. “How did we draw such an awful crew?”
In their final game of the season, a Giants offense that posted the second-lowest chase rate in the major leagues drew no walks and struck out 13 times.“
Thanks for the article. I think that most baseball fans prefer having umpires behind the plate. What we really need is ones that are accurate. Why would MLB assign some of the worst to a game that was so important. Why not treat them like we treat other athletes? If a player strikes out every at bat, he will eventually not get any at bats. These umpires seem to have lifetime contracts without any consequences for poor performance. In some cases, they wear it like a badge of honor. It’s a young mans game played by highly talented, well conditioned athletes, which by the way is the exact opposite what we see when Blue takes the field.
I have met a MLB ump at a holiday party who is personal friends with our friend. Nice guy, after a few beverages he had a lot to say about what it like behind the plate. Who gets the tight zone, who has a bad attitude. It was very interesting. By the way, they get treated like royalty. First class tickets everywhere, 5 Star hotels, and from the looks of most, they have a very a big food & beverage budget.
In the end, I think everyone just wants accountability. I’m sure it’s a really hard job, but most jobs are when you are making upwards of $400K working 162 games.
If players can be sent down for not performing why not umpires?
Agree with both of you. The balls and strikes were horrible both ways last night. The JD Martinez strikeout was borderline criminal negligence and I am an Astro fan.
I am one who is a traditionalist with regard to the robo ump discussion. I think things should stay as they are but there has to be accountability. The technology is already there and the umps get graded on balls and strikes every game. There just seems to be nothing done with the information. If an ump is consistently below par with his calls he should go, period.
An interesting side note from WWBA in Jupiter a couple of weeks ago. It seems PG was testing a hybrid robo ump arrangement during our exhibition game. The ump had an earpiece wired to a receiver on his belt. There was a PG official sitting at the scorers table with a laptop monitoring each pitch via the TrackMan system that is permanently installed on the spring training field we were playin on. It didn’t seem like the PG rep was making every ball and strike call but he definite made one in particular. My son was on the mound and throws a front hip 2 seam to a lefty batter that ran onto the inside corner. The ump hesitated, the TrackMan screen indicated the pitch was a strike and the PG official said “that was a strike” into his handset. The ump made the strike call. The PG rep at the computer had an earpiece so perhaps the ump was able ask on pitches he was unsure about. It was pretty crazy.
The red box on the top left would read “out” with a red background for balls out of the zone and “in” with a green background for balls in the zone.
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Here is how it works from an article when they experimented with it in the Atlantic League:
“Here's how the new balls and strikes technology works: An official in the press box monitors a laptop running the TrackMan radar system that electronically determines balls and strikes. That information is immediately relayed to the umpire using a wireless earpiece. The pitches are tracked through a large Doppler radar screen high above home plate. The radar system measures a player's height and creates a strike zone.”
I love this discussion and 100% agree on either accountability or some sort of in-game electronic check or both.
So then what is the plate umpire? Just an actor, representing an earlier era? Will they be chosen for the style with which they call a strikeout?
I was thinking of a) using the data to retrain or move umps back to the minors just like they do players and/or b) giving teams a real time challenge like tennis. Not one that takes forever to go to headsets and have to call NY or whatever they do.
@anotherparent posted:So then what is the plate umpire? Just an actor, representing an earlier era? Will they be chosen for the style with which they call a strikeout?
Considering the way things are going in other walks of life these days, that would fall right in line with other absurdities.
I wonder what pronoun we will be mandated to use when addressing the robo umpire ?!?
The umpire union is going to make umpires obsolete if they don’t start letting the league get rid of guys like Angel Hernandez. If they can use robo umps behind the plate they can figure out a way to cover the bases and foul lines.
@PTWood posted:I was thinking of a) using the data to retrain or move umps back to the minors just like they do players and/or b) giving teams a real time challenge like tennis. Not one that takes forever to go to headsets and have to call NY or whatever they do.
I like the real time challenge like Tennis idea. It could be done fast and might even be an amusing part of the game. I can hear the crowd getting into it.
@fenwaysouth posted:Thanks for sharing the article @Senna. I know I'm going to catch a lot of sh*t for this, but I'll say it anyway.....for all that is holy please bring in the robo-umpires to call balls and strikes. I'm tired of this idea that "we've got to keep the human factor alive in the game". No we don't, we really freaking don't!
I'm your typical MLB fan today...I'm 59 years old and I've loved the game since I could say "Rico Petrocelli". At 59 I've embraced technology in my life and made a career of it. It can do very positive things for our everyday lives. Other major and minor sports across the globe have gone in that direction. All major tennis tournament line calls have gone 100% to computers through Artificial Intelligence and Machine Learning. There are no tennis player line call arguments and play continues. It really is that simple. If a computer can handle service line calls in the 130-140mph range it most certainly can learn and handle anything else with the video technology available today. Baseball is in need of a major overhaul. The money is too big and we've got to grow the fan base as we compete with other sports that use technology. If professional baseball want to appeal to younger generations they have to move forward with the use of technology otherwise baseball is going to become the sport that only grandmas and grandpas follow.
Sorry, end of rant. I'm cranky when the Red Sox lose. I'd be significantly crankier if I was a Giants fan.
I agree. The mlb umps are really good, even the bad ones get over 90% of the calls behind the plate right, but the stuff of the modern pitchers is so good and powerful that even the best umpires are going to get fooled and a single wrong call can have no effect at all (say when it is 2 outs bases empty and a team leads 4-0) but also can have a huge impact (say 2 out with bases loaded at 3-2 count).
We don't need the human element there, just get tech that is getting it 100% right.
I know robo ump as it was in the Atlantic league has problems too, players report very strange strike calls because the machine would call pitches that clip the 3d zone in certain ways strikes that a real ump never would but you can adjust to that by adjusting the zone. The actual rule book zone is probably not ideal for the robo ump as human umps unconsciously have made the zone a bit more hitter friendly (wider but shorter top and bottom) but you can adjust the computer to account for that while still getting the accuracy benefit
@anotherparent posted:So then what is the plate umpire? Just an actor, representing an earlier era? Will they be chosen for the style with which they call a strikeout?
Bring back Emmitt Ashford!
So, the last couple nights I've caught the last few innings of the NLCS in Atlanta. Incredible comebacks by the Braves in both games. I have no dog in the hunt, so this makes it much more enjoyable to watch. Ron Washington might as well put up a green light at third base because he is sending everybody!
I spent most of the season being down on baseball thinking if the Red Sox are good the quality of baseball is bad. This has been an exciting post season regardless of how the Sox are doing so far.
@Dominik85 posted:I agree. The mlb umps are really good, even the bad ones get over 90% of the calls behind the plate right, but the stuff of the modern pitchers is so good and powerful that even the best umpires are going to get fooled and a single wrong call can have no effect at all (say when it is 2 outs bases empty and a team leads 4-0) but also can have a huge impact (say 2 out with bases loaded at 3-2 count).
We don't need the human element there, just get tech that is getting it 100% right.
I know robo ump as it was in the Atlantic league has problems too, players report very strange strike calls because the machine would call pitches that clip the 3d zone in certain ways strikes that a real ump never would but you can adjust to that by adjusting the zone. The actual rule book zone is probably not ideal for the robo ump as human umps unconsciously have made the zone a bit more hitter friendly (wider but shorter top and bottom) but you can adjust the computer to account for that while still getting the accuracy benefit
I'm barely aware of tennis, but I believe that the sport employs a hybrid system where technology is leveraged but the ultimate call is made by a person? Maybe there is something similar for baseball.
@K9 posted:I'm barely aware of tennis, but I believe that the sport employs a hybrid system where technology is leveraged but the ultimate call is made by a person? Maybe there is something similar for baseball.
K9,
FYI......Line calls are handled by the technology and kept in check (managed) by the chair umpire who activates the system during each point. Players have the opportunity to challenge 3 line calls per set plus an additional line call if the set moves into a 7-point tiebreaker. The number of challenges is reset back to 3 when a new set starts. If a player challenges the computer call, he will soon be disappointed when they display the video to him and the folks in the stands. I've heard announcers say the line calls are accurate to 1mm. When the ball is called out, a synthetic recorded human voice immediately makes the line call. The umpire is responsible for keeping the match moving forward in all respects. 2021 was the first year that all the major open tournaments (except the French Open because it is clay) have used this line calling system. It isn't a cheap system, but with the total prize money and exposure across network TV I think the folks that run these tourneys plus the ATP (men) and WTA (women) organizations really wanted this. There have been issues in the past where some players got screwed on some big calls (not all tennis points have the same value) and they didn't want to repeat it and give the sport another "black-eye"....or a Don Denkinger World Series moment calling the runner safe.
As for the players, they know immediately when a ball is in or out and that it is an ACCURATE call. The only reason a player is going to make a challenge is they want to see it with their own eyes, or they want to slow the momentum of the match which is typically about a 30 second break.
Drawback to technology: No more entertaining Earl Weaver and John McEnroe style tantrums.
Interesting that my post took an unintended but thoroughly interesting turn.
Those who are Athletic subscribers can see this article about grading umps: https://theathletic.com/288617...k-balls-and-strikes/
My only thoughts on this is that I like the way that it was done in the Atlantic league. Gives the ump the ability to overrule HAL, but also have HAL as a backup/confirmation. Ump is still the arbiter of calls.
Oy - Red Sox are doing damage to the Astros, the Braves are finding ways to win against the Dodgers, and the conversation is all about Robo-umps 
.
Tough break for the 'Stros with their pitching staff injuries... The Sox have caught lightning in a bottle and are looking to keep up the pressure. I know we still have a long way to go in both series, but surely no one saw this coming, right? I (still) wish these games wouldn't start at 8 especially when they last 4 hours and the next day starts way too early.
@JohnF posted:Oy - Red Sox are doing damage to the Astros, the Braves are finding ways to win against the Dodgers, and the conversation is all about Robo-umps
Tough break for the 'Stros with their pitching staff injuries... The Sox have caught lightning in a bottle and are looking to keep up the pressure. I know we still have a long way to go in both series, but surely no one saw this coming, right? I (still) wish these games wouldn't start at 8 especially when they last 4 hours and the next day starts way too early.
Correct. I think most in Red Sox Nation would say they never saw this coming. If they say they saw it coming they are liars! How they backed into the AL wildcard playoff is a great example. There is still a lot of baseball to play, and Houston is a talented team
Frankly, I was giddy they beat the Yankees and that more than met my expectations. Now, they are just showing off. That concerns me a little, but Cora will keep them in line. There were many times during the regular season that I questioned some of Cora's decisions. I questioned starting Sale in game 1 against Houston which ended up being a closer game than anticipated. I think Cora has also stepped up his game in the playoffs. He is managing with urgency in mind, and it suits him well.
JMO
Backing in is a bit of an overstatement for a 162 game marathon where teams were affected by Covid and injuries at different times.... IIRC, the yankees had early season troubles there, while the Sox had late season troubles.
I freely admit I still hold a grudge against both teams in the ALCS over the 2017 & 2018 cheating scandals that resulted in not a single player being penalized. (And I'm a Rays fan, so discount my views because of that as you wish.) But I can't help but think it's... interesting... that the team that stole signs in 2018 and is coached by the guy involved in both the Houston and Boston cheating schemes has suddenly had an offensive explosion after a less-than-stellar season. And this was two postseasons ago, so it's not exactly ancient history.
Don't get me wrong though--I can't imagine rooting for the Astros either.
Teams that advance in the playoffs are the ones that get hot at the right time. The Rays are a good ball club and I enjoyed watching them, but they didn’t play their best when it mattered the most. It’s as simple as that.
@adbono posted:Teams that advance in the playoffs are the ones that get hot at the right time. The Rays are a good ball club and I enjoyed watching them, but they didn’t play their best when it mattered the most. It’s as simple as that.
The Rays picked a bad week to have a bad week (and Boston definitely got hot). But is the Red Sox offensive surge necessarily "as simple as that"? MLB found that in 2018 the Red Sox, led by their current manager (who also cheated with the Astros in 2017) cheated and no one involved disputed the finding. Cora was out of baseball for a single season, but no player suffered any consequences--other than maybe some mild reputational damage, which comments like yours suggest is pretty minor. I have no idea whether Boston is cheating now (and neither does anyone commenting here); but I'm not even close to forgetting (much less forgiving) the guys who played for them in 2018. Same goes for the players on the 2017 Astros.
w/r/t: cheating - they got caught.... Stealing signs wasn't something invented in 2017... other teams have been rumored to have done similar things, but they weren't caught. I don't like it either. Let's face it video usage is the current equivalent of steroids which replaced other drugs which replaced betting...
w/r/t: getting hot - I think that's more true in hockey where the goalie can change playoff fortunes... Although Kike's current hot streak is unbelievable... Naturally he came from the Dodgers, right?!
The Sox pitching down the stretch was awful, but something has clicked - whatever I'll take it... It doesn't hurt getting huge leads early on that's for sure, but no lead is really ever safe. E-Rod and Eovaldi I think are the only two to make it at least 5 innings and Sale is just not a factor other than a cheerleader or fear role. Believe me I would never believe Brasier could be "this effective".
The irony of the Rays series loss is they are known for creating the opener and patching together games with varied bullpen relief. The tables got turned there it seems. One wonders if the history will look kindly on Baker using McCullers in Chicago - strange how weather played a role... Oh and wasn't there a White Sox pitcher talking smack about cheating after game 3? Did anyone really believe the Astros would not have that on their bulletin board for game 4 motivation?
@Chico Escuela posted:The Rays picked a bad week to have a bad week (and Boston definitely got hot). But is the Red Sox offensive surge necessarily "as simple as that"? MLB found that in 2018 the Red Sox, led by their current manager (who also cheated with the Astros in 2017) cheated and no one involved disputed the finding. Cora was out of baseball for a single season, but no player suffered any consequences--other than maybe some mild reputational damage, which comments like yours suggest is pretty minor. I have no idea whether Boston is cheating now (and neither does anyone commenting here); but I'm not even close to forgetting (much less forgiving) the guys who played for them in 2018. Same goes for the players on the 2017 Astros.
Give it a rest. The Red Sox played better when it mattered.
@adbono posted:Give it a rest. The Red Sox played better when it mattered.
Never questioned that. My comments aren't about the Rays.
Boston decided to re-hire a two-time cheater in Alex Cora rather than break with the past. I'm surprised MLB allowed it--essentially the Red Sox said "forget you, we're going to stay the course." The cheating scandals happened in 2017, not 1917. Many of those responsible are still representing Boston and Houston, and never faced any penalty. A sudden offensive surge has to raise some questions. I know that will rankle the many Red Sox fans here, but put aside the fan-colored glasses and I think you'll at least agree you have to consider it.
Rosenthal has a good article in (you guessed it) The Athletic about Brent Strom (Astros pitching coach) believing that they may be tipping pitches. https://theathletic.com/289905...-be-tipping-pitches/
"Strom...... was not suggesting the Red Sox were doing anything illegal through electronic means, something both these teams have been guilty of in the past. Rather, he was pointing to the Red Sox’s acumen at detecting anything opponents might be doing to tip pitches — old-fashioned inside baseball, the perfectly legal kind.
“This is a very good hitting team, and they’re very adept at picking up little things, much more so than most teams,” Strom said. “We need to be very cognizant of the little things, tipping-type things, things like that, that they’re very astute at. We’ve just gotten behind hitters.
“We have to re-evaluate and see if they’re seeing things that are maybe tipping the scales a little bit in their favor. These are veteran (hitters). And of course, they have the ultimate guy (Alex Cora) as their manager, who … he’s just very good at it. We just have to do a better job of watching what our pitchers do and getting ahead in the count.........
Strom said his belief the Astros might be tipping is based more on the pitches the Red Sox are laying off than the swings they are getting. On the other hand, it’s also possible the Astros are just pitching poorly, and that Cora and his players are inside Strom’s head......
Strom, while acknowledging the Red Sox are hot, said, “We’re making a lot of mistakes. Basically, we’re falling behind. We’re falling behind countless times.”
Despite what the Sox have achieved the Astros are one game from tying the series. Despite the appearance of an Astros pitching staff in shambles Sox fans are hoping their staff continues to pitch beyond the season standard. Two weeks ago I thought the Sox didn't have the pitching to win anything more than a one game crapshoot.
@Senna posted:Rosenthal has a good article in (you guessed it) The Athletic about Brent Strom (Astros pitching coach) believing that they may be tipping pitches. https://theathletic.com/289905...-be-tipping-pitches/
Dear Mr Rosenthal,
I'm not buying the article or the Athletic subscription. The Astros still have to field and hit the ball. They did neither the last two games. ALL their pitchers must be tipping pitches! Were they tipping pitches in the first game that the Astros won? I didn't think so. Did you have a deadline with nothing to write about? Total horsesh*t. JMO.
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@Chico Escuela posted:Never questioned that. My comments aren't about the Rays.
Boston decided to re-hire a two-time cheater in Alex Cora rather than break with the past. I'm surprised MLB allowed it--essentially the Red Sox said "forget you, we're going to stay the course." The cheating scandals happened in 2017, not 1917. Many of those responsible are still representing Boston and Houston, and never faced any penalty. A sudden offensive surge has to raise some questions. I know that will rankle the many Red Sox fans here, but put aside the fan-colored glasses and I think you'll at least agree you have to consider it.
You have an exceptional ability to beat a dead horse. You obviously have made up your mind that the Red Sox are having success in the post season because they have found another way to cheat - and this is based on no evidence whatsoever. SMH
I should have known better than say anything ... looks like a double whammy yesterday w/ Dodgers and Astros both making late innings comebacks.... that's baseball though I guess!
The Sox went from in control to must win tonight in one inning last night.
@RJM posted:The Sox went from in control to must win tonight in one inning last night.
“That’s how baseball go”
- Ron Washington
@JohnF posted:I should have known better than say anything ... looks like a double whammy yesterday w/ Dodgers and Astros both making late innings comebacks.... that's baseball though I guess!
That is what makes a 7 game series great. Despite the momentum swings up and down, it is almost always the better team winning the series. Great theater!
There sure are a lot of runs being scored in these games. Not a pitchers' playoffs.
@anotherparent posted:There sure are a lot of runs being scored in these games. Not a pitchers' playoffs.
I'm sure someone here will come up with some conspiracy theory as to why 
For the Sox - the postseason was a microcosm of their season - did really well at the start, held on for a few miles, but in the end too inconsistent with hitting, pitching, and defense. Kudos to the Astros and their pitchers for being able to make their adjustments.
I feel overall the level in the playoffs is not quite like in the last 2-3 years when we had a lot of real superteams.
The astros and dodgers are really good but with all the dodger injuries they are not quite at the level of 2018-2020, same goes for the astros who are really good but don't quite have the starting rotation Quality (Verlander, Cole, better greinke) and Bullpen Quality of the last years, same goes for Boston (rotation, pen) and Atlanta (back of the rotation, no acuna).
They are good teams but each team really has significant weaknesses too unlike the astros and dodgers of the last years.
I think the shortened season and covid have taken its toll, especially on pitchers who had to go from like 60 innings to 170+ causing a lot of injuries and wear and tear.
Everyone has injuries but it's true that the Dodgers have been hit particularly hard.
As a Giants fan, I have to admit to being a poor loser and I've watched only a few innings since they were eliminated, but it sure looks like Dave Roberts lost the war with the decisions he made in winning the battle with SF.
I think I'm going to have to come around and root for the cheaters to win one for Dusty in the World Series.
@JCG posted:Everyone has injuries but it's true that the Dodgers have been hit particularly hard.
As a Giants fan, I have to admit to being a poor loser and I've watched only a few innings since they were eliminated, but it sure looks like Dave Roberts lost the war with the decisions he made in winning the battle with SF.
I think I'm going to have to come around and root for the cheaters to win one for Dusty in the World Series.
That’s where our household has landed as well. Pulling for Dusty at this point.
It certainly isn't the year of the pitcher, that's for sure. I wonder if they can measure whether all these runs and home runs are increasing interest in the games?
@JohnF posted:.........................................................
For the Sox - the postseason was a microcosm of their season - did really well at the start, held on for a few miles, but in the end too inconsistent with hitting, pitching, and defense. Kudos to the Astros and their pitchers for being able to make their adjustments.
Bingo. 100%. Red Sox were red hot, then they weren't. Astros adjusted to the Red Sox and the Red Sox failed to make further adjustments to the Astros. That is sports and life. The better team won.
The NL series has been entertaining as well. A great contrast of acquired talent versus developed talent. I'm not a fan or follower of either team, but I think I've just become a Braves fan for the next few weeks. Originally, the Braves were founded in Boston before moving to Milwaukee then Atlanta during expansion in the 1960s. That's my story and I'm sticking with it....plus I despise the Astros. 
I'm jumping on the Braves bandwagon.
PS.....There will be no tomahawk chop or the annoying sound that comes with it.
@PTWood posted:That’s where our household has landed as well. Pulling for Dusty at this point.
Would like dusty to win one too.
Hiring dusty was a genius move by the astros owner.
Astros had this image of those math nerds finding out evil cheating methods in their analytics department and now with dusty all the old Sabermetrics hating old school guys have someone to root for with old dusty.
Of course dusty mostly did comply with the analytics staff in Houston but he still transports that old school throwback image and helped repairing the astros reputation as the astros cheating and astros analytics prowess were always lumped together and the old school stuff comes across as more clean (although it probably isn't true - even before analytics guys tried to get an advantage)
@PTWood posted:That’s where our household has landed as well. Pulling for Dusty at this point.
When he was with the Cubs the expression was "In Dusty We Trust." Interesting that Grienke was pulled after 30 some pitches, when Cubs pitchers Mark Prior and Kerry Wood piled up pitch counts which Dusty was later criticized. I think he was what the Astros neded. By the way, I am waiting for my 1971 Topps Don Baylor and Tom Paciorek rookie card to come back from PSA card grading company (been there almost 9 months). Oh, yeah there is a third player on the card. 
After watching the top of the 4th here, I cannot wait for the shift to go the way of the dodo.
For the casual fan, there is nothing more infuriating that seeing a ball punch straight through a hole where that fan knows a player should be. And as a more than casual fan like myself, it’s still a cause for groans and eye rolling.
Put it this way: never have I ever, when watching a game, heard someone scream “Why aren’t we doing a shift?!?!?!”
/rant
The shift has been exposed this post season by superior hitters. That last one should have been the most routine play to short…
@Senna posted:After watching the top of the 4th here, I cannot wait for the shift to go the way of the dodo.
For the casual fan, there is nothing more infuriating that seeing a ball punch straight through a hole where that fan knows a player should be. And as a more than casual fan like myself, it’s still a cause for groans and eye rolling.
Put it this way: never have I ever, when watching a game, heard someone scream “Why aren’t we doing a shift?!?!?!”
/rant
Shifts just look odd. It’s still four infielders covering the same amount of ground. They’re playing the odds/historical data the analytics provide. What bothers me is seeing a drive to right in the air fielded by a second baseman twenty, thirty feet into right field, then throwing out the hitter.
@RJM posted:Shifts just look odd. It’s still four infielders covering the same amount of ground. They’re playing the odds/historical data the analytics provide. What bothers me is seeing a drive to right in the air fielded by a second baseman twenty, thirty feet into right field, then throwing out the hitter.
I completely understand why the shift is being used. But again, it is infuriating to watch.
If MLB wants to improve watchability/enjoyment of the game AND increase OBA, that's a quick fix. Two infielders, no more no less, between 1B and 2B, and the same between 2B and 3B. I think this will be one of the items that comes out of the new CBA.
@Senna posted:I completely understand why the shift is being used. But again, it is infuriating to watch.
If MLB wants to improve watchability/enjoyment of the game AND increase OBA, that's a quick fix. Two infielders, no more no less, between 1B and 2B, and the same between 2B and 3B. I think this will be one of the items that comes out of the new CBA.
No, we don’t need rules. The game will find equilibrium as Paula indicated. Hitters started by bunting to beat the shift and now we are seeing pull side dominant hitters taking balls the other way in critical situations. The pendulum will swing back to valuing guys that can hit to all fields and those that can’t adjust will be replaced. This is the beauty of the game.
Braves fan here, should be a good series.
Braves fan here as well, and also an Astros fan from childhood (RIP JR Richard).
Pulling for the Braves, but have no beef with this Astros team. Only 4 players remain from the 2017 team, and we have no evidence if anyone other than Correa was an active & willing participant. Brantley, Tucker, Dusty, and the rest have nothing to do with it.
So I'm here for the drama on the field, not 2017 rehashing. Fine with people booing the remaining 4 if they want (and Crane as well), but the rest of the team doesn't deserve the vitriol.
Good luck to both, but Braves in 6....
I like Dusty Baker. I like the Braves. I can't stand Joe Buck, though.
Had the idea I would listen on the radio online, while watching the broadcast. ESPNradio was 5 minutes behind. Braves radio was about 2 minutes ahead. So, I'm back to Joe's portentious "strike two."
Buck literally called Ohtani “a freak” during the broadcast tonight. 😐
@anotherparent posted:I like Dusty Baker. I like the Braves. I can't stand Joe Buck, though.
Had the idea I would listen on the radio online, while watching the broadcast. ESPNradio was 5 minutes behind. Braves radio was about 2 minutes ahead. So, I'm back to Joe's portentious "strike two."
I can’t stomach Bill Walton. When he does UCLA basketball games on ESPN or PAC12 Network I synch up with the local KLAC UCLA broadcast.
You can pause the game on tv. If you pick up the radio broadcast on streaming you can pause. It’s not hard to synch them up.
I think it is crazy that both teams start game 1 of the WS with a BP game. I know that happens in the playoffs but I would expect that with the 3rd and 4th starter, not with the first.
@Senna posted:Braves fan here as well, and also an Astros fan from childhood (RIP JR Richard).
Pulling for the Braves, but have no beef with this Astros team. Only 4 players remain from the 2017 team, and we have no evidence if anyone other than Correa was an active & willing participant. Brantley, Tucker, Dusty, and the rest have nothing to do with it.
So I'm here for the drama on the field, not 2017 rehashing. Fine with people booing the remaining 4 if they want (and Crane as well), but the rest of the team doesn't deserve the vitriol.
Good luck to both, but Braves in 6....
I will hate the astros forever...I am all for stealing every sign possible within the spirit of the game. The Astros get a pass when nobody is left including the management and ownership. I am actually cheering for the Braves, a division rival who will forever be Ted and Jane's team...that should say how poorly i feel about the Astros.
@Dominik85 posted:I think it is crazy that both teams start game 1 of the WS with a BP game. I know that happens in the playoffs but I would expect that with the 3rd and 4th starter, not with the first.
They weren't bullpen games, the Houston starter got bombed and removed the Braves broke his leg....sadly i expect you will see some full bullpen games coming up in 4 or 5.
Yeah just saw that, that's terrible. Just checked the box score this morning and wondered about both starters only going two.
That is a big advantage for Houston now even though losing game one hurts, Morton will be hard to replace for the braves.
But anything can happen in such a series
@Dominik85 posted:That is a big advantage for Houston now even though losing game one hurts, Morton will be hard to replace for the braves.
But anything can happen in such a series
Morton is a big loss, but if you're a Braves fan you have to feel good about the pitching matchup tonight, and obviously going home up 2-0 would be huge.