25% of what total?

usually COA (cost of attendance). BUT, ask if offered what it is, do not assume.

Under the new rule, any offer must be at least 25%, and to keep to that minimum, you would have to offer 25% of the total cost of attending, inclusive of tuition and fees, room, board, and books.

If the offer is for a greater %, you may see some salesmanship going on. I have heard of coaches making "full ride" offers where the term referred to tuition and fees only. A football player could tell you what a "full ride" really includes.

If you are going to a state school and there is an additional tuition fee for out of state students, it also includes that fee in the 25%.

TPM, Midlo Dad & Homerun04... thanks for the quick response.

Homerun04,

Are you sure about that?

I know that the 11.7 is calculated based on average cost of attendance, and at state-supported universities that can mean they actually have more than 11.7 to spread around if they focus on in-state recruits.

But I think the 25% rule applies to whatever cost the player is incurring, whether in-state or out-of-state, and not to the average cost. Do you have contrary information on that?

Midlo Dad,

I was talking with a D1 coach at a UC school in Calif and I asked how he was able to get out of state players and how does that effect his 11.7.

I don't know what the formula is but it sounded like he was permitted to get some additional funds allocated for the out of state player vs 11.7 times the average cost of in state players.

I may be wrong....

My impression was that it's an accounting agreement with the Administration. It doesn't actually cost the university more to educate an out-of-state student, so the school isn't 'losing' money --- just waiving it. However, the Administration doesn't look kindly on recruiting a lot of out-of-staters as the object of the excersize is to educate their taxpayers' offspring.

I htink that Orlando is correct but it still counts in the 11.7.

However, if I recall when son was interested in Miami, a private school, 50% would be the total, 25% from the school and mentioned that 25% came from a private benefactor. Am I to assume that as long as it was reported to the school it might not be used against the 11.7? That was a while ago, but some schools must have private funds they can use without going into the 11.7? It costs over 40K a year to attend UM and I know many players that go cannot in any way afford to attend and are not academically eligible. The funds have to come from another source, if the family does not meet the citeria for tuition reduction.

TPM,
The source can come from anywhere, but the wording the NCAA uses, paraphraseFunds that must be available to all students, not just athletes, and awarded to the student in the normal manner based on the same criteria , not reflective of his athletic status.

If it is available at the discretion of the benefactor, then it would be counted as athletic aid. Normally funds from benefactors are pooled, but may have stipulations attached...such as, must be an engineering major, etc.

They may also designate the funds for "baseball scholoarships", but that would be for funding the 11.7 and nothing additional

How often has or does anyone know how often out of atate tuition is waived? A couple of schools have hinted at reduced or waived out of state tuitions.

Ryno,
Not sure, but that would be on the coaches end and I am assuming he can get a yes or no from admissions when he asks. I would also imagine that coahes have some leeway to waive some out of state tuitions without asking.
He just makes the offer and gives you the total of the players COA. The player says yes or no.

I think a lot of schools waive out-of-state tuition if you have a certain A.C.T. score, if you are in top 10% of class OR if you are national merit scholar etc.

quote:

Originally posted by RYNO:
How often has or does anyone know how often out of atate tuition is waived? A couple of schools have hinted at reduced or waived out of state tuitions.

It's not uncommon, but there are certain states/universities that if I remember correctly, have a policy of not waiving out of state tuitions. If they hinted at it, they can do it.

Did the rule end up with the athletic scholarship able to be under 25% as long as the scholarship package comes to 25% or more? Or does the athletic scholarship have to be a full 25%?

There are also schools that offer in-state tuition to out-of-state students whose GPA's are above a certain threshold. Clemson I remember specifically offers that to kids who graduate in the top 10% of their high school class. That's not a baseball thing, it's university wide, but when you package it with a baseball offer it's a nice deal.

quote:

Originally posted by Midlo Dad:
There are also schools that offer in-state tuition to out-of-state students whose GPA's are above a certain threshold. Clemson I remember specifically offers that to kids who graduate in the top 10% of their high school class. That's not a baseball thing, it's university wide, but when you package it with a baseball offer it's a nice deal.

Could be but mine wasn't offered that and he met that criteria.

Thanks I'll have son ask some more questions.

CADad, I would think that since academic money no longer counts against the 11.7 that it's simply the total that must be 25%.

According to multiple sources now, the 25% minimum must be all baseball money counted against the 11.7. They cannot blend academic and baseball to reach that threshold.

CPLZ,
You didn't trust my source?

To give 25% athletic money would be logically correct also. I was wrong.

I am in the process of trying to reach one of the committee members for a clarification---lets hope I get lucky

BASEBALL ONLY

https://goomer.ncaa.org/wdbctx/LSDBi/LSDBI.home


2008-3 FINANCIAL AID -- BASEBALL LIMITATIONS -- MINIMUM EQUIVALENCY VALUE -- EXCEPTION -- NEED-BASED ATHLETICS AID ONLY
Status: Adopted, 60-Day Override Period Process Diagram
Intent: In baseball, to specify that an institution that awards athletically related financial aid based solely on demonstrated financial need, as determined for all students by the institution's financial aid office using methodologies that conform to federal, state and written institutional guidelines, is not subject to the 25 percent minimum equivalency value per counter.
Bylaws: Amend 15.5.4, as follows:

15.5.4 Baseball Limitations. During the 2008-09 academic year, there shall be a limit of 11.7 on the value of financial aid awards (equivalencies) to counters and a limit of 30 on the total number of counters, in baseball at each institution. During the 2009-10 academic year and thereafter, there shall be an annual limit of 11.7 on the value of financial aid awards (equivalencies) to counters and an annual limit of 27 on the total number of counters in baseball at each institution.

15.5.4.1 Minimum Equivalency Value. An institution shall provide each counter athletically related and other countable financial aid that is equal to or greater than 25 percent of an equivalency.

15.5.4.1.1 Exception – Need-Based Athletics Aid Only. In baseball, an institution that awards athletically related financial aid based solely on demonstrated financial need, as determined for all students by the institution’s financial aid office using methodologies that conform to federal, state and written institutional guidelines (including institutional financial aid that is considered athletically related financial aid based on the intervention of athletics department staff), is not subject to the 25 percent minimum equivalency value per counter.

Source: NCAA Division I Board of Directors.
Effective Date: August 1, 2008
Proposal Category: Amendment
Topical Area: Financial Aid
Rationale: Without this legislative change, an institution that awards all aid in baseball based solely on demonstrated need will likely not be able to comply with the requirement to award a minimum of 25 percent of an equivalency value. Oftentimes, a student-athlete will not qualify for need at the level of 25 percent of an equivalency. Without the exception in this proposal, an institution must choose to either change its financial aid policies and provide assistance above demonstrated need or choose to not award any athletically related financial assistance to student-athletes with demonstrated need. Undoubtedly, the first option presents a significant philosophical dilemma and financial burden to the institution and the second option presents a student-athlete well-being issue for institutions that have high costs of attendance that are not able to assist with any athletically related need-based aid simply because the student-athlete does not need aid at a level of 25 percent of an equivalency. It is important to note that institutions that would qualify for the exception are truly committed to both the student-athlete and the sponsorship of baseball at the Division I level; however they simply have a different funding model with respect to financial aid.
Estimated Budget Impact: Elimination of anticipated budgetary increases for an institution that meets the exception.
Impact on Student Athlete's Time: None.
Primary Contact Person:
na

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
History Dec 21, 2007 Submit; Submitted for consideration.
Jan 14, 2008 Board Consideration, Adopted; Adopted as emergency legislation.
Jan 15, 2008 Adopted, Override Period; Start of Override Period
Mar 14, 2008 Adopted, Override Period; End of Override Period