I believe I read that in the history of MLB there have only been 175 3-pitch innings, which would make that kind of a rare event statistically. My GS had two during the past year but he does not include this in his resume. Since he has signed an NLI this month we no longer worry about the resume but I still would like to hear some opines on the subject. Thx in advance.
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I'm shocked that there are that many in MLB but here is the likely scenario that makes it happen.
One pitch one out
One pitch single
One pitch DP ball
Don't think it really has anything to do with the skill of the pitcher other than they threw three hittable pitches.
Agree with backstop. Obscure, but nothing that makes me think "WOW" with regard to pitching skill. Nothing that I think would give an edge of one guy over another on a resume.
Also, my guess is it's far less rare in youth/amateur ranks than MLB, so the fact that it's happened 175 times in MLB is irrelevant. There are certainly a lot more no hitters and perfect games thrown outside MLB than in.
All this means is the pitcher threw a strike and the 2nd out and Especially 3rd out of the inning had no awareness what was going on. I have a group of young players that are to passive and I have made them start swinging more on the 1st pitch but even I won't let us run a 3 pitch inning.
I would have thought there were 10x that many in MLB history. I'm thinking about late innings with a pure fastball reliever and a bunch of pinch hitters who are down by 1 or 2 runs - swinging for the fences. Any one have any idea of how many MLB innings there have been in history - I guess you would then multiply that by 2x as there are two opportunities for this to happen each inning. An to think someone can actually get a hit and not necessarily break up the 3 pitch inning assuming a double play ball is hit next.
If you ask some of the best pitchers in baseball, (i.e. Greg Maddux) he would tell you that a three pitch inning is the perfect inning. It gives pitchers like him a chance to go deep into almost every game he starts. I think that this type of stat shows how effective pitcher's other pitches are.
If you ask some of the best pitchers in baseball, (i.e. Greg Maddux) he would tell you that a three pitch inning is the perfect inning. It gives pitchers like him a chance to go deep into almost every game he starts. I think that this type of stat shows how effective pitcher's other pitches are.
Of course it is, but against the best hitters in baseball, as IEBSBL points out, there is too much discipline and self awareness on the part of hitters to allow this. It is completely in the hitters control. All they have to do is take a pitch. Especially if he's just watched two batters in front of him sit down on two pitches. The three hole guy probably hasn't even gotten on deck yet.
I think this stat has far less to do with the pitcher than it does the three hitters in this case. That's why it's probably far more prevalent in the lower levels where hitters aren't as aware and disciplined and coaches may not be paying attention to allow this to occur. All it really says about a pitcher is that he threw three hittable pitches in a row. All three could have been pissrods to the SS vs. the effective rollover off Maddux.
To build on BackstopDad32 and Nuke93's point that a 3-pitch inning primarily signifies three consecutive hittable pitches, I wouldn't expect the feat to be a resume item for a high school pitcher.
In fact, for amateur players, extremely low pitch counts may be an indication that a pitcher is getting close to his ceiling. He's getting guys out efficiently, but he's getting hit and he's not striking many people out.
My son once threw a 56-pitch 7-inning CG in a collegiate summer league. 3 dink hits--each followed by a double play. Only 14 balls called all night. No walks. Never got to ball 3 on anybody. Perhaps a half dozen K's, maybe less. Didn't have a double-digit pitch inning until the 7th when the leadoff batter fouled off a couple and managed to see six pitches. The game barely lasted an hour.
No 3-pitch innings, but he had a 4-pitch inning that I sort of missed. As the first pitch was thrown, my daughter asked for money for a hot dog. By the time I reached into my wallet, handed her the money, and received her kiss of gratitude, the inning was over.
That game remains one of my favorite memories of watching my son pitch. Batter after batter, he'd throw a first pitch strike to one corner, then get a dribbler or a pop up when the second pitch hit the other corner with different speed or different movement.
But inducing weak contact quickly doesn't qualify one for the next level. The scout who was there to watch the guy on the other team who got drafted the following year was completely unmoved by the artistry of the pitching performance.
I guess the three-pitch inning may be a statistical oddity akin to what a baseball writer (Tim Kurkijan, maybe) said about hitting for the cycle. If Babe Ruth never did it, how big a deal can it be?
Interesting theory Swampboy. Not many swing and misses. Hmmm...you might be on to something. Hope not though 
Swing and miss pitches - particularly in the zone pitches to decent batters - are the holy grail to scouts.
Swing and miss pitches - particularly in the zone pitches to decent batters - are the holy grail to scouts.
http://www.baseball-almanac.co...3_pitch_inning.shtml
I don't think I counted the number or times it may have ocurred multiple times; anyway
I was able to watch my 2016's video and the situation was this: It was a game where the coach was letting just about everyone pitch ( other than his big 3). My 2016 came in to pitch the bottom of the fourth. First batter ground out to 2nd, Next batter fly'd out to center, last batter popped up to 2nd. The game was on TV and the announcers were making a big deal over it. He has had several games where he has K'd 6 or 7 and one tournament game where he K'd 11. He made the All Tourney team at Jupiter and has committed to a D1; so I'm not looking for validation of skills..just opinions on an event.
Sorry I was a victim of thread drift.
A three pitch inning. A fairly rare event; and since baseball loves oddities, it's no surprise that there would be some comments made about something that is pretty rare at the MLB level.
A three pitch inning may just signify that the last of the three pitches was put in play - whether the first two batters made an out, a hit, or were hit by pitch could only be told by the score card. (Late edit: actually, a three pitch inning could even have three hits. Followed by some bad base running and/or bad luck.)
None for 28 years (41-69) and then another 10 year span with none (69-79) with none in the AL. A 49 year span with none in the NL (20-69). First off, this just doesn't seem correct. The more recent years seem logical with 3-4 most years.
A 3 pitch inning might demonstrate some level of skill, but only if the innings before and innings after were similar (maybe a 10 pitch inning was highest). A three pitch inning when a kid throws 80 pitches over 5 innings (as a random example) is purely a fluke. Not saying a fluke is necessarily bad, just saying you can't take away any real findings from one inning of pitching.
Swing and miss pitches - particularly in the zone pitches to decent batters - are the holy grail to scouts.
Goosegg is right -- this is a big deal. There was a thread recently about projecting 12 year olds at 18, and some commentary about how people tend to focus on results. Take two pitchers who have a 3 strikeout inning -- the first gets foul ball after foul ball, and called strike threes on borderline pitches. The second gets 7 or 8 swings-and-misses on pitches in the zone. Equally effective at the current level (the results are the same), but my money is on the swing-and-miss guy to be effective at the next level.
Why do we come on here sharing obscure stats to get point across. He threw 3 pitches and inning was over. A grounder, fly ball to OF, and pop up shallow. IMO, tells me batters that innings were not that good. Doesn't mean IMO P was great, just pitched 3 and contact was made. he did his job
Then we hear info like GS struck out 11 or x amt and he got picked up by D1 so all is good, in response to perceived negative comment.
Honestly in my sons Jr yr he had 4-5 games were he SO 11or more and we still lost(by one each time but it was a loss none the less) be aware if u come asking for opinions u might not like them all.
Hopefully this player will have a good experience at college.
Probably more impressive on the other end (hitters) was Reggie Jackson's three pitches. Went deep three times in WS against Dodgers all on first pitch of AB.
Why do we come on here sharing obscure stats to get point across. He threw 3 pitches and inning was over. A grounder, fly ball to OF, and pop up shallow. IMO, tells me batters that innings were not that good. Doesn't mean IMO P was great, just pitched 3 and contact was made. he did his job
Then we hear info like GS struck out 11 or x amt and he got picked up by D1 so all is good, in response to perceived negative comment.
Honestly in my sons Jr yr he had 4-5 games were he SO 11or more and we still lost(by one each time but it was a loss none the less) be aware if u come asking for opinions u might not like them all.
Hopefully this player will have a good experience at college.
Thank you. You said what a lot of people were thinking.
I am not sure what comparison there is with the ml stats, the player is pitching against HS players.
He is also a soft tossing lefty who had a better than average defense behind him. Got to give credit where its due.
I'm partial to the 9 pitch, 3 k's, inning myself!
I remember a relatively recent Nats game that was a 2-pitch inning. Ian Desmond was up and he took a perfect, center-cut meatball. The announcer said something like "Clearly, Ian was not going to allow a 3-pitch inning."
Why do we come on here sharing obscure stats to get point across. He threw 3 pitches and inning was over. A grounder, fly ball to OF, and pop up shallow. IMO, tells me batters that innings were not that good. Doesn't mean IMO P was great, just pitched 3 and contact was made. he did his job
Then we hear info like GS struck out 11 or x amt and he got picked up by D1 so all is good, in response to perceived negative comment.
Honestly in my sons Jr yr he had 4-5 games were he SO 11or more and we still lost(by one each time but it was a loss none the less) be aware if u come asking for opinions u might not like them all.
Hopefully this player will have a good experience at college.
typical
I'm partial to the 9 pitch, 3 k's, inning myself!
Can boastfully state that NTGson at 16 recorded not only a 9 pitch inning, but 3 such innings in a row....he was dialed in and relaxed on mound as guest pitcher for a local 16U travel team. 27 pitches, 18 FBs, 9 CBs. Opposing coach followed the "take the first pitch" philosophy and never changed.
I can boastfully state that my 16 year old is a handsome young man - a little on the skinny side. And, he had an unassisted triple play - how many of those do you see in the MLB? I'm thinking it was during his 8-9yo season - but he was playing up for his age.
Originally Posted by Swampboy:
…In fact, for amateur players, extremely low pitch counts may be an indication that a pitcher is getting close to his ceiling. He's getting guys out efficiently, but he's getting hit and he's not striking many people out. …
Why does everything have to be about getting to the “next level”? I talk to a lot of coaches every year who’d love their pitchers to get guys out efficiently, and encourage pitching to contact. I know the coaches I’ve scored for without exception preach pitching to contact like a bible belt traveling preacher.
My son came into an 18U travel game this summer with bases loaded and nobody out. First pitch ground ball back to him....threw home...1 down. Second pitch, ground ball to second for a DP.....he was pretty happy! 
My son played on a team recently where the coach (former major college D1 assistant) seriously wanted 10 or fewer pitches per inning. Luckily most of the pitchers were on their game and largely threw low strikes. One benefit from this approach was that a kid could throw 5-6 innings and sometimes be at 50 or fewer pitches. I will say the coach, while not familiar with all the pitchers, was quite familiar with most of the infielders and outfielders and I did see some plays made that his high school defense probably would not have made - certainly helped the pitchers' stats when in came to W/L and ERA not to mention pitch counts. None of these pitchers seemed to be getting close to their ceiling. A the high school level "pitch to contact" can be instrumental - if you can get your #4 and #5 to throw predominately low strikes (albeit with only medium velocity) you can get some wins playing defense and stretch your pitching assets. I do think some better pitchers can focus a little more on strikeouts when pitch counts become less of an issue - for instance in playoffs where you can have 5-6 days off between weekend playoff rounds.
If Strasburg threw a 3 pitch inning, you'd never hear the end of it. Bob Gibson would rather have three outs on three pitches, but who was he anyway. It's a big deal. Pitchers can't do it without a defense. Any no hitters thrown without a defense? It's not possible.
3 pitch inning is great!
The third hitter should never allow it to happen.
Only possibility should be if the third hitter has legitimate home run power and is the last out of a tied or one run game.
If Strasburg threw a 3 pitch inning, you'd never hear the end of it. Bob Gibson would rather have three outs on three pitches, but who was he anyway. It's a big deal. Pitchers can't do it without a defense. Any no hitters thrown without a defense? It's not possible.
Exactly what I said. This can't happen without the defense.
There were somewhere around 22,000 innings played in the Major Leagues this year.
There were zero three pitch innings. It is kind of rare.
There were somewhere around 22,000 innings played in the Major Leagues this year.
There were zero three pitch innings. It is kind of rare.
Based on this report (not mine) it happened at least twice in 2015.
Given the data gaps evident in that report prior to 1988, I'm assuming the necessary PBP data is scarce for dates prior, so it's pretty sketchy before that, but it looks like it happens 3-4 times a year on average these days, so I'd guess the 175 number might be based on verifiable ones, and doesn't account for all the ones that happened prior to comprehensive PBP data.
Edited to add, it looks like that report might have been limited to 1-inning relief outings (possibly due to limitations in the search functionality at BBREF), since there are a bunch of 2-pitch innings in there. But that would probably mean there are a bunch more by SP that aren't getting caught.
most Amateur coaches give the third hitter a take sign after 2 one pitch Outs.
pitching to contact is often good and MLB pitching coaches preach that all the time. but being able to miss bats at the highest Level is important. it all depends on the Situation. with 2 Outs in the 4th I probably prefer a BIP over a K to save pitches. likewise if you are up 4 runs in the 9th you can give the leadoff batter a meatball, I rather give up a HR then a walk then.
but if there are RISP I would always taking the K over taking the Chance that the defense does not make the out. it is definitely a plus to be able to get the K in a tight spot.
Why do we come on here sharing obscure stats to get point across. He threw 3 pitches and inning was over. A grounder, fly ball to OF, and pop up shallow. IMO, tells me batters that innings were not that good. Doesn't mean IMO P was great, just pitched 3 and contact was made. he did his job
Then we hear info like GS struck out 11 or x amt and he got picked up by D1 so all is good, in response to perceived negative comment.
Honestly in my sons Jr yr he had 4-5 games were he SO 11or more and we still lost(by one each time but it was a loss none the less) be aware if u come asking for opinions u might not like them all.
Hopefully this player will have a good experience at college.
typical
CoachJackE,
I am not really sure what the point was of your original post. Was it to point out a specific accomplishment or for congratulations on your grandsons signing to Old Dominion?
I say that because its obvious he was throwing all off speed pitches and that works for slower throwing lefties. Most softer tossing pitchers do have to rely on their secondary stuff for success. That's OK, no problem with that at all. Now you want to WOW me, than be able to throw that 90 mph + FB past a hitter and than be able to produce soft contact for a DP ball when needed to stop runs from scoring!
Now that is what I consider a skill. Remember, you did ask for opinions on the subject!!!!
BTW, congrats on your grandsons signing.
Yes it looks like 2 did it, though one was 3 pitches to only 2 hitters. Relief pitcher and double play I guess. The site I checked was... http://www.baseball-almanac.co...3_pitch_inning.shtml
They probably haven't updated it.
I want pitchers that can do at least three of the following four things with regularity:
Miss bats (by far my #1)
not issue walks
get ground balls
keep the ball in the park.
I'd rather have all 4 in one package, but I will take any combination of three. If he's an extreme fly ball pitcher and doesn't get a lot of ground balls, I can live with that as long as his fly balls aren't the out of the park kind, and he can miss bats when needed.
If he doesn't miss a lot of bats, I can live with that, as long as he can get me a ground ball with regularity.
If he gives up a lot of walks and so generates traffic that way, he'd better be able to shut an inning down with a K or with a timely DP.
What does a three pitch inning here and there show me? On it's own now much. I want to know more the three pitches and the outcome. And I want to know if it's a projectable skill. If it was three heavy sinkers pounded into the ground that one thing. If it was three crush meatballs to the warning track -- well, that's something else entirely. Plus, I would think a guy with a heavy sinker that gets pounded into the ground on contact often, should also miss his share of bats as well
SluggerDad,
Are you speaking from the perspective of a scout or a coach, and how do you measure what it is you’re looking for? I often hear people say similar things, but when asked that last question do little more than stammer and mumble, “I can tell the difference by eye.”
Now me, when I see something like that said, the 1st thing I do is look at the data to see if what’s being said can be backed by the numbers, so I’d appreciate you providing a bit more information on your 4 criteria.
FI, when you say “miss bats”, do you mean strikeouts, swings and misses, or something else? When you say “not issue walks”, do you care if he gives up a lot of hits and runs, or is very often behind in the count?
Miss bats measured by K/9. Lots of ways to get K's obviously. fastball with wicked movement, sinker that starts in the zone and disappears, nasty, nasty changeup. Slider . Don't care what your swing and miss pitch is, but gotta have one or more if you are going to be a high K rate pitcher.
Lack of walks is measured by W/9
GB measured by GB/FB rate
No homers means no homers, but if you're going to give them up, let's not generate a lot of traffic around them.
I said I will take any pitcher that can do 3 of those 4 things. Seems to me if you can do 3 of those 4 things, you have a pretty good shot at preventing runs. As far as run prevention, the K is king, I would think. And I feel pretty certain that not issuing walks is the queen, but that's just a hunch, really.
Not sure how to rank order the other two though. FB tend not to turn into hits, but some of them fly very, very far. GB's very rarely turn into dingers but often into hits. They also help to erase unwanted traffic.
Probably my least favorite pitcher is the extreme fly ball pitcher (high FB/GB ratio) who is not also a strike out pitcher.
Originally Posted by SluggerDad:
Miss bats measured by K/9. Lots of ways to get K's obviously. fastball with wicked movement, sinker that starts in the zone and disappears, nasty, nasty changeup. Slider . Don't care what your swing and miss pitch is, but gotta have one or more if you are going to be a high K rate pitcher.
Lack of walks is measured by W/9
I get the feeling you’re talking about college and above by the x/9 rather than x/7 or x/6 for most amateur levels. Personally, I prefer K or BB per PA. That way it doesn’t make any difference what level.
But I do wonder about whether you really mean “miss bats” or strike batters out. The reason I ask is, I generate a few metrics that show percentage of missed pitches, and the pitchers who are the “best” at that aren’t necessarily the pitchers who get the highest K rate.
GB measured by GB/FB rate
This one always confuses me because I see it most often as GBO:FBO as opposed to GB:FB. I keep looking at the outs because that’s the way the stat rats have generally done it.
No homers means no homers, but if you're going to give them up, let's not generate a lot of traffic around them.
This is another one of those, doesn’t have a lot of meaning below pro ball, metrics. The reason there are so few HRs in HS is just as likely to be the hitters lack the strength to hit the ball out as the skill of the pitcher.
I said I will take any pitcher that can do 3 of those 4 things. Seems to me if you can do 3 of those 4 things, you have a pretty good shot at preventing runs. As far as run prevention, the K is king, I would think. And I feel pretty certain that not issuing walks is the queen, but that's just a hunch, really.
In my experience in HS, 1 in 3 runs scored typically comes because of a walk or hit batter, regardless of how many Ks are posted.
Not sure how to rank order the other two though. FB tend not to turn into hits, but some of them fly very, very far. GB's very rarely turn into dingers but often into hits. They also help to erase unwanted traffic.
Here again, I think your opinion is formed mainly from MLB, and that’s very different than other lower levels, so it’s difficult for me to see the usefulness of the metric. Now if HS teams got smart and pulled the fences in until the rate of HRs approximated the rate of HRs in the MLB, then analyzing it would make a lot more sense to me.
Probably my least favorite pitcher is the extreme fly ball pitcher (high FB/GB ratio) who is not also a strike out pitcher.
I agree in general, as long as the team plays in a “band box”. But a team like KC doesn’t really care if a pitcher’s giving up lots of fly balls without getting lots of K’s.
I hope I’m not coming off as contentious. It’s just that evaluating players ML players and HS player where I spend most of my time just isn’t the same thing at all.
at the lower Levels avoiding walks is definitely extremely important. an occasional walk is ok but you can't defend a walks galore no matter how good your stuff is.
