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3/4 Arm Slot

floridafanfloridafan5,000+ posts
My 14 year old Son throws from a 3/4 slot. He is consistant in his delivery and keeps his elbow above his shoulder. All his pitches have movement, he throws a fastball, a great curve (tomohawk variety, no wrist movement) and is working on a change-up and he appears to have a "natural" slider...again, no wrist movement. No pain, other the occasional bicep after a longer then usual outing. His fastball is hitting 71, curve about 63. He is currently successful with his current arm slot. For the longest time we worked on trying to get him to an over the top delivery, but could never get him to adopt that. Any comments would be welcome.

The Journey Continues!

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T thepainguy1,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by Texan:
Sorry, but that is wrong. Arm slot is the angle of the arm relative to the axis of the shoulders. Tilting the body does not change arm slot.


This is a very common misconception about pitching.

People think their elbow remains bent 90 degrees as they throw the ball.

The reality is that, for every pitcher older than 10 or 11 years old, the centripetal force of the shoulders rotating causes the elbow to extend such that the upper arm and forearm are aligned (and at the level of the shoulders).

In others words, the only difference between Jeff Weaver (a high side-armer)...



...and Daniel Cabrera (who throws high 3/4)...



...is how much they tilt their shoulders.
Last edited by thepainguy
T Texan1,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by thepainguy:
This is a very common misconception about pitching.

People think their elbow remains bent 90 degrees as they throw the ball.

The reality is that, for every pitcher older than 10 or 11 years old, the centripetal force of the shoulders rotating causes the elbow to extend such that the upper arm and forearm are aligned (and at the level of the shoulders).


What does that have to do with a proper definition of arm slot?

Nothing as far as I can tell.

A sidearm slot is a sidearm slot. The delivery may be from higher due to tilt. But the slot is still sidearm.

How many times have you heard coaches & scouts talking - "He looks like he is throwing overhand, but he really is in a 3/4 slot. He just leans a lot."?

I have heard that on many occasions.


I'm gonna leave it at that.
Last edited by Texan
T thepainguy1,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by Texan:
What does that have to do with a proper definition of arm slot? Nothing as far as I can tell. A sidearm slot is a sidearm slot. The delivery may be from higher due to tilt. But the slot is still sidearm.


The point is that at the end of the day everyone throws "sidearm." Everyone has their pitching arm side upper arm and forearm at the level of their shoulders.

No high level pitcher whose throwing the ball with any speed releases the ball with their elbow bent 90 degrees (which some people think is what happens when someone throws from a 3/4 arm slot).

The only way to get the pitching hand higher off the ground is to tilt the shoulders.
T Texan1,000+ posts
We might just as well say that every pitcher starts with his hand at his waist/chest.

I have never known of anyone who talked about arm slot being the angle of the arm at release, which is what you are doing.

Certainly the arm extends at release. But the arm slot does have an effect on the pitch (what happens prior to release really does matter).
T thepainguy1,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by Yankeelvr:
IMO this is a prime example of why you should never use "still" pics. How did each of these players arms get to the split second in time the photos capture?


Their upper arms were at the level of their shoulders and forearms were laid back horizontally with their elbows bent 90 degrees (e.g. extrenally rotated). Their elbows then rapidly extended 90 or so degrees (as their shoulders started to decelerate) to the position you see in the photos above.
T thepainguy1,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by Texan:
And this one???



Pretty standard.

Shoulders pretty much level. Elbow at level of the shoulders. Hand is higher than the shoulder-shoulder-elbow line but there could be a couple of reasons for that.

First, the elbow could still be extending. Second, many pitchers have decreased range of motion in their pitching arm side elbow (which is why many cannot brush their teeth or comb their hair). Wood's elbow could be fully extended at this point.
T thepainguy1,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by LouisianaTexan:
No, if your body is pulling your arm through, a) you're going to have arm problems and b) you won't be able to control the ball as well or throw as hard.


I completely disagree.

By getting the hips rotating ahead of the shoulders, it allows you to generate force using your body and not your arm. That lets the muscles of your shoulder focus on holding the humerus in its socket.

This picture of Casey Fossum pitching is an (extreme) example of what I am talking about...



The only reason a string bean like him is throwing hard is because he is tapping into the large muscles of his legs, hip, and torso.
Last edited by thepainguy
L LouisianaTexan10+ posts
In this picture his body is not pulling his arm through. A powerful hip rotation is a completely different thing than what I'm talking about. Look where is hand is. His arm is going to come through at the same time as his sholders. You can tell that because his arm is up and hand is no longer on top of the ball...thus, his body is not pulling his arm through.
T thepainguy1,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by LouisianaTexan:
His arm is going to come through at the same time as his sholders.


No it won't.

As his shoulders start to rotate his pitching arm side forearm will bounce or lay back 90 degrees (aka external rotation). As his shoulders rotate, his elbow will come through at the same time as his shoulders but his pitching hand will be the length of his forearm behind his back (with his elbow bent 90 degrees). As the rotation of his shoulders decreases, his elbow will then rapidly extend those 90 degrees and he will look like this...



...but reversed since Fossum is a LHP.
Last edited by thepainguy
C cap_nMember
thepainguy-

The only way to illustrate this is to post an overhead clip of a high velocity pitcher. You will see that just prior to internal shoulder rotation that the elbow is behind the axis of the shoulders.


Texan-

How about the difference between throwing arm angle and throwing arm slot. Will you expand on these phrases for everyone?


captain
T thepainguy1,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by cap_n:
The only way to illustrate this is to post an overhead clip of a high velocity pitcher. You will see that just prior to internal shoulder rotation that the elbow is behind the axis of the shoulders.


Agreed.

Here's a link to a great high speed video that ASMI did of a guy throwing a fastball. It shows everything in great detail.

- ASMI High Speed Video Of Pitcher Throwing Fastball
Last edited by thepainguy
T thepainguy1,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by LouisianaTexan:
You should probably find out what it means for the body to pull the arm through before you try to debate me.


Ok, so exactly what do you mean when you say "the body pulls the arm through." Can you give a photographic example of what this looks like?

What does the alternative look like?

What do you see in the video I referenced? Is he doing it the right way or the wrong way?
Last edited by thepainguy

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