I've heard conflicting rules on this
1. Swinging 3rd strike that the catcher drops
2. Swinging 3rd Strike that bounces but the catcher catches the ball
are the the same thing ?
Original Post
Replies sorted oldest to newest
Yes, both are examples of a third strike not caught......and based on the runners on base/#of outs situation the batter may be entitled to attempt to reach first.....
The usual reason for the confusion is that this scenario is most often called the "dropped third strike"......while accurate in one example it is misleading in another....
The correct terminology is to call this the "Third strike not caught".....which covers both examples.....in 1 the catcher has failed to control the ball by dropping it, in 2 the ball has struck the ground making it impossible for the catcher to catch the ball in flight......
The usual reason for the confusion is that this scenario is most often called the "dropped third strike"......while accurate in one example it is misleading in another....
The correct terminology is to call this the "Third strike not caught".....which covers both examples.....in 1 the catcher has failed to control the ball by dropping it, in 2 the ball has struck the ground making it impossible for the catcher to catch the ball in flight......
quote:The correct terminology is to call this the "Third strike not caught".....which covers both examples.....in 1 the catcher has failed to control the ball by dropping it, in 2 the ball has struck the ground making it impossible for the catcher to catch the ball in flight......
Almost right.
True, the catcher cannot catch the ball that bounces in front of the plate with one big exception. If the batter swings and foul tips it, the catcher can then catch the ball for strike three and the batter is out.
you are correct of course.......but your exception would then be a "foul tip" and not a "3rd strike not caught". I was referring only to what the original poster asked....
piaa and tallump-just to clarify, a pitched ball that hits the ground on a third strike is not caught-correct? If a batter swings and tips the ball and it hits the ground before entering the catcher's mitt its a foul ball, isn't it? Or am I missing something? Thanks.
OK, I just went back and reread Tallump-he stated bounces in front of the plate. If the batter swings and then tips directly into the mitt it's a catch. Gotcha.
how do you score a dropped third strike by the catcher that allows the batter to reach first? I always put DTS-E2 Drop Third Strike,Catcher Error... just wondering if that is correct?
And if a runner was to score on that also, it is not a rbi for the batter correct? Runner scored off the E2?
And if a runner was to score on that also, it is not a rbi for the batter correct? Runner scored off the E2?
If anyone saw the Cubs/ White Sox game on Saturday, Tadahito Iguchi had an at bat just like this. There was a called third strike in the dirt, he tried to hold up and the catcher tagged him out.
CatchingTheHeat,
Score it: Third strike not caught and either passed ball or wild pitch. (not an error)
Score it: Third strike not caught and either passed ball or wild pitch. (not an error)
When you're dealing with a ball that is the third strike, either by swing or by call, and the ball is not caught (and not fouled at all), the question of whether it's a WP, PB or E2 is the scorer's judgment call.
A ball that hits the dirt before reaching the catcher and allows the batter to reach first is a WP. A ball the catcher should've caught, but didn't, is a PB. But suppose the ball bounces and the catcher scoops it up cleanly, then throws it away -- this is an E2 because you have neither a WP nor a PB, yet you must assign cause to the batter's reaching base.
If the catcher scoops it up and successfully throws the batter out, P gets credit for a K, C for an assist, 1B for a putout. No WP, PB or E in this situation, because the batter failed to advance -- assuming no runner advances, either.
If another runner does advance, then you have to assign blame to either a WP, PB or E2. How you do it depends on how it happened. There might also be a rare case where the ball is scooped immediately and the base runner takes off on the C's throw to first. If the throw is perfect to 1B but the runner is fast enough to make it while the play at first is being made, I might consider that a clean SB for the base runner.
In no case would there be credit for an RBI.
A ball that hits the dirt before reaching the catcher and allows the batter to reach first is a WP. A ball the catcher should've caught, but didn't, is a PB. But suppose the ball bounces and the catcher scoops it up cleanly, then throws it away -- this is an E2 because you have neither a WP nor a PB, yet you must assign cause to the batter's reaching base.
If the catcher scoops it up and successfully throws the batter out, P gets credit for a K, C for an assist, 1B for a putout. No WP, PB or E in this situation, because the batter failed to advance -- assuming no runner advances, either.
If another runner does advance, then you have to assign blame to either a WP, PB or E2. How you do it depends on how it happened. There might also be a rare case where the ball is scooped immediately and the base runner takes off on the C's throw to first. If the throw is perfect to 1B but the runner is fast enough to make it while the play at first is being made, I might consider that a clean SB for the base runner.
In no case would there be credit for an RBI.
Thank you Pilsner for the help. And thank you Midlo Dad for the very thorough explanation.. I love learning something new every day!!
This is very interesting. My son throws about 50% of his 3rd strike pitches that hit the ground about a foot in front of the plate. Usually with low ball count.
The catcher calls the pitch and his job is to smother the pitch ,keep it in front of him and make the tag or throw down to 1st.
I know technically they can be called wild oitches and or dropped balls but the catcher doesn;t have chance to catch it and the pitcher intenede it to hit there. It is one of those things that has no real reflection on the reality of the pitch.
I have also seen pitches that were called strikes that hit the batters rear foot. A great pitch that just had too much on it.
The catcher calls the pitch and his job is to smother the pitch ,keep it in front of him and make the tag or throw down to 1st.
I know technically they can be called wild oitches and or dropped balls but the catcher doesn;t have chance to catch it and the pitcher intenede it to hit there. It is one of those things that has no real reflection on the reality of the pitch.
I have also seen pitches that were called strikes that hit the batters rear foot. A great pitch that just had too much on it.