3rd to 1st pick off

No, it does not apply. There is no need to stop on ANY pick off move to ANY base.

does anyone have a reference for the ruling?

He does not have to set to go to third.

Michael-
Can you tell me what action I can take as a coach if a call like this is made during the game? Should I reference the rule book?

Or is it something that I will be "up the creek without a paddle" on?

Once the umpire told you what and why he made the call. Which he did contrary to the rules. Then nothing more for you do but simply state, "I am protesting your ruling".

The umpire team will then mull it over, either "hopefully" correct the call or direct both scorebooks to note the exact situation at the time, note; the remainder of the game is being played under protest". The game resumes.

Once the game is over you follow your league, district, state, chain of command for protest review.

If you are playing under Fed rules then there is no type of protest. You bend over and take it with a smile. If this guy is habitually missing calls then call the assigner and tell him you never want him doing your games again.

quote:

Originally posted by coach2709:
If this guy is habitually missing calls then call the assigner and tell him you never want him doing your games again.

Make sure you also explain why and that you believe he is incorrectly applying the rules. This should carry more weight than if the assigner believes you are disagreeing with the umpire's judgement.

quote:

Originally posted by coach2709:
If you are playing under Fed rules then there is no type of protest. You bend over and take it with a smile. If this guy is habitually missing calls then call the assigner and tell him you never want him doing your games again.

It depends on the state, but I believe the great majority allow protests. And this would be a valid one - the umpire has misapplied a rule.

There are no protests allowed in my neck of the woods and if you, I don't care how politely, mention the rulebook or checking the rulebook you get the heave ho...

so yes, In 2709's terms, I've been bent over quite often.

Dash I'm not doubting you but I have never heard nor seen any coaches talk about having any kind of protest. That's coming from talking to other coaches at clinics and things like that.

Frankly, the fact that you can't protest in certain states amazes me.

Are protests allowed during tournament time?

I find it hard to believe protests are not allowed other than some local youth rec leagues. Even select tournament play with timed games and crammed schedules has some type protest tools in place. At the HS level, I'm confident there is means other than just a complaint.

So, blue decides, due to lack of time, you only get two outs an inning, 2 balls and 1 strike; fly balls are outs as long as they are caught on no more than the second bounce. You telling me the only recourse is to complain afterwards to an assignor or an AD? Nah.

Protests are in the scheme of things pretty rare, but just because you've never heard of any doesn't equate to, there's no protests allowed. Please dig in and search a bit more. I only filed one protest in 17 years of coaching, we wound up winning so it was moot, only saw 2 in 41 years of playing, one when I was 9yrs old in LL, and one in a softball state tournament. I had to rule on 2 as a local league UIC and Pres (protest committee).

I cannot imagine an entire state would not allow protests at the HS level.

The FED rule book specifically provides for protests, but leaves it up to individual state associations to preclude them. My state association (NY) allows protests.

See FED 4-5.

It is correct that many states do not allow protests. I think that's rediculous, umpires make mistakes and there needs to be a mechanism to fix it when they do. We allow them in our area but I don't remember anybody actually following a protest out. I saw a game where the crew was dead wrong, the manager protested but didn't follow it out. I know they were wrong because I saw the play and the ruling.
If your area des not allow protests, then your only option is to call the assigner or rules interpreter so find out who is wrong and make sure the umpire is notified if he is wrong. I have been called on twice in 25 yrs and was right both times. So in this case the manager learned the right call, but in other cases we will call the umpire and make sure they learn the proper call.

Sorry JJK but the state of Kentucky does not allow any type of protest for high school athletic events. It's covered in Bylaw 16 in their handbook.

quote:

Case BL-16-1- May decisions of offi cials in athletic
scrimmages or contests be protested to the
Commissioner?
No. The decision of the offi cial, right or wrong, must prevail. This
is based on decisions made at the national level when protests
have been referred to the National Federation offi ce.

Only recourse a coach in Kentucky has is to scratch an official from doing their games. Even then the assignor might mess up and send him / her to the game.

I only scratched one guy in my 9 years as head coach in KY. We had him several times before the incident that made me want to scratch him and he was terrible. I get along with umps and appreciate they have a difficult job and as long as they are trying I'm going to accept their rulings (after I get a few words in myself).

This guy shows up on time for the game but doesn't come out to start it on time. Both teams ready, both umps at the field and he decides to wait 15 minutes before coming out. Then he demands his check then and there. I tell him to start the game and he's not happy but he does. Each half inning as I'm going back to the dugout he asks me about his check. Finally in the 4th inning I blew up on him but he took it. After the game I called the assignor and told him what happened and I never wanted him again. I scratched this guy for 3 years until I moved to NC.

He showed up to ump a JV game after I scratched him. I called the assignor that if it was a varsity game we wouldn't take the field. He said he messed up and forgot. He was still terrible in that game.

Anyway that is a long winded story to say that coaches in Kentucky do not have a protest option. I'm not sure about North Carolina because I'm an asst coach and haven't checked into it yet.

quote:

Originally posted by Michael S. Taylor:
He does not have to set to go to third.

Correct. Nor does he have to come set prior to throwing to any other base.

quote:

Originally posted by jjk:
I cannot imagine an entire state would not allow protests at the HS level.

Imagine it. The last I heard from FED an estimated 36 states did not allow protests in FED games.

Please excuse my igonorance. And accept my condolences. I see no advantages to not allowing protest's, and see a whole lot of disadvantages.
So to answer the orginal post, no, F1 does not have to come set before a PO attempt, "unless" the umpire doesn't know the rule.

quote:

Originally posted by jjk:
Please excuse my igonorance. And accept my condolences. I see no advantages to not allowing protest's, and see a whole lot of disadvantages.
So to answer the orginal post, no, F1 does not have to come set before a PO attempt, "unless" the umpire doesn't know the rule.

In many parts of the country, with weather and other considerations, leagues have a difficult time getting in their scheduled games. A protest takes time, and then, if successful, the game needs to be rescheduled for completion.

This can be impossible in many areas. Fed handles this by allowing states the option. Some states allow this by allowing leagues the option.

If you don't care for how your state handled the option, contact them.

As I already stated I think not allowing protest is a bad idea. Allowing to scratch umpires is as bad if not worse. I know of cases where scratches are allowed and an umpire will get scratched because he tossed a coach or enforced something he didn't agree with or understand.
I think in most cases if there is a real problem between a coach and umpire, the assigner generally won't send him back. I had a case several years ago where I had the same team three times in five days, on the plate all three times. It wasn't assigned that way but I got switched onto two of the games, and because of who was with me, I was the PU. The team was undefeated when they started this series, the other three teams were chasing them. They lost the first by slaughter, won the second on a balk in the seventh, and lost the third. After the second game I decided I needed to not be on the third game, so I scratched myself and sent another top guy in my place.
Later in te season I explained myself to the manager which he appreciated and kept from having a bad relationship from developing.

They may not be statewide but I am fairly certain the Bayside does allow them. But as I say, the only one I actually saw protested didn't follow through so I may be making an assumption.