4.6 GPA.. are you serious?

That is a bunch of garbage - the school your son is going to is stealing money from the kids in scholarships. I am all for having high standards and having the kids accomplish something but those kids have no chance.

How in the world can an A- be only 3.7? I would look into forming a parents protest group and get information on scholarships and the requirements to get them from local schools or even nationally. Put some pressure on the board of education in the news media. Stuff like that seems to work wonders.

Many colleges do not consider weighted grades at all. Weighting is so random across the country some school districts score on a 7.0 scale. Stanford turns down something like 80% of all Valedictorians, so they must be looking at something else. Like the quality of the courses your son is taking. If he is really interested submit an application let them make the decision.

A little twist on bb1's comment. Many schools take the raw grades and recompute GPA based on their own systems. I think you can feel pretty confident that your son will get the appropriate recognition for the difficult course load he carries.

Don't fret. Most colleges are aware of the different grading scales and they take that into account when making decisions. No worries!

quillgirl


You are correct---I can get a reading from many college coaches when I tell them where a player attends HS---they know the story about the schools and the grading---which systems are weak and which school systems are strong

Relax Bum. It all comes out in the wash! TR Hit made a great point; many of the coaches (or school administrators) seem to know if your son goes to a strong or weak academic HS.

Bum:

Your concern is well founded, but I think the advice that was offered by bb1, Holden, quillgirl, and TR is correct.

You may want to turn the bummobile around and take another look at Stanford.

And a 3.7 for an "A"? How many of your school board members were members of Spinal Tap..."turn it up to 11?"

If they allow room for an "A+" do they then, in turn, allow for an "F-"?

College admissions offices actually keep track of students who came there from certain high schools, and how they fared vs. how they looked as applicants. If you come from a strong school, they know it.

I support the concept of extra points for advanced classes, because otherwise the incentive is to take less challenging classes in order to protect your GPA. So I understand where you're coming from with your complaint.

With the extra points systems, no matter how high the GPA number gets inflated, in the end your class rank will tell the tale. But if your school doesn't give the extra points, don't despair. The known caliber of your school and the toughness of the course load your son took will pull him through, esp. if he aces the SAT's/ACT's.

Before Midlo Son made his decision, he had some discussions with Stanford (lots of e-mails and a couple of very long phone calls). One thing the Stanford recruiter told us was, they LOVE kids who take challenging courses! And if you look at their baseball roster, and then look up those kids' HS info on PGCrosschecker, there are plenty of sub-4.0 kids. But you can bet they took tough courses and went to tough schools, just like your son.

Sounds like your son might be EXACTLY the kind of kid they're looking for -- as long as he can play, too! So don't give up on that dream too soon.

Bum - Stanford recomputes your son's GPA based on their own criteria...in other words the way your HS computes it will not matter to them. He should be fine...or at least evaluated evenly with other kids.

BTW, if he ends up there they do use the +/- system and compute their in-college GPAs just like your HS.

Our HSs give credit for an A, B, C, etc. There's no such thing as minus or pluses. However, there are "weighted" GPAs included on your transcripts... but that's in addition to your regularly calculated GPA. As stated earlier, some schools consider weighted and some won't. Regardless, when they see the grading scale, they'll translate those grades into one they consider fair and accurate. Sounds like your son is taking care of business in the classroom and that's all he has to do... don't need to worry about that funky system.

When universitites look at the "Core Classes" your son took, those core classes are defined by the institution itself. Therefore, they not only know those "core classes" but also other vital information such as weighted courses, and grading scale. It all comes out in the wash as was already pointed out. A lot of that other stuff is really fluff and colleges know it.

Grade inflation, etcetera is the reason that standardized tests are so important. And that classroom "security" is so high while it is being administered. And that ACT and SAT prep classes are not only expensive, but big business.

I knew a senior from a high school with more than 8000 students and his rank was in the top 10 of his class of over 2000. I was very impressed until he told me that he scored a 25 on the ACT. While a 25 is a good score, it was not what I expected a student near the very top of his class to score....

As much as I hated to take standardized tests, I understand the importance of them.

Gaming the grade system is now big.

Bright kids avoid course such as Drivers Ed where the top grade possible is "only" an A.

My school does both weighted and unweighted. I have a 4.0 unweighted (straight A's through HS) and about 4.5 or so weighted (ive taken some AP classes worth 5 points.

They really should standardize it.

A local baseball pitching star played for Duke for one year. PG said he had a 3.9 HS GPA and an ACT of only 22. (and 90 mph fastball)

Last I heard he transferred to a local JUCO. Don't know about his grades there, but his ERA was above 7.

Things change.

Thanks all for the great input! No, Bum Jr. is not "Bummed" out. In fact, the bum is on MySpace right now oblivious to it all.

That's good to hear bum...

Your concerns are my concerns...we've got to stick together!

...and...

This is a timely topic for me. In my sons frosh and now spoh year the classes are ranked as follows – Top to bottom.

Gifted
Honors
College Prep
Technical

There is no weighted average. So given the above – baseball talent excluded, which student would be accepted to an ACC or SEC school:

Student 1 – Gifted – GPA= 3.0
Student 2 – Honors – GPA=3.2
Student 3 – College Prep – GPA=3.5

I realize the factor of SAT is not included and one would assume a Student 1 would score higher then Student 2 and 3. But lets just speculate they all have a good score.

Bum....my son's school has weighted and unweighted numbers reported on his transcript, and these schools know what to look for. Also, what most schools look at is what is called the "Carnegie GPA", which is the unweighted GPA in core courses. For example, my son is in a special arts magnet program and has been throughout high school. However, despite the fact that he had to audition to get in and there are limited slots, and the courses that he takes in visual arts are advanced, those don't count for him when it comes to his high school GPA. Too bad, really, cause he's REALLY good at it

catcher09:

I would guess if they needed help putting their Erect-A-Dugout together they just might go with...

Student 4 - Technical - GPA=Good with his hands and brain together.

Pass me the channel locks please...

We have "weighted" gpa calculations at our high school. About 4,000 students.

If you take Honors Classes (not everyone is permitted to register for them), you get an additional higher letter grade when calculating your gpa. For example, if you get a B in an Honors Class, they calculate it an A in your grade point average. The Honors Courses help your grade point average for all 4 years...increasing each semester you are in school...i.e., a 4 year benefit for taking Honors Classes as a Freshman.

Only problem that I see, are those kids taking regular classes and getting straight A's, plodding along with the 4.0 grade point averages. It catches up to them when their 4.0 places them 144th in a class of 954...because virtually all of the kids above them have been taking Honors Classes for 3-4 years.

That is why the standardized testing is so important for Admissions Counsellors.

Tell your kids to take all of the Honors Classes that they can. It should help them with their class standings; and, most certainly, it will help them when they take the ACT and SAT.

So many kids "go with the flow" and get their 3.5 in bogus classes. Catches up with them when they take the standardized national tests and they wind up in the 22-24 range for the ACT; and, do very modestly with the new SAT format.

Only so many times you can take Ceramics; Film Study; Gym; Small Engine Repair; Cooking; Baking; and Gardening in high school.

quote:

Originally posted by catcher09:
There is no weighted average. So given the above – baseball talent excluded, which student would be accepted to an ACC or SEC school:

Student 1 – Gifted – GPA= 3.0
Student 2 – Honors – GPA=3.2
Student 3 – College Prep – GPA=3.5

With baseball talent included - all.

Without baseball talent included - the same three would be admitted to most of those schools and probably be turned down by the same ones.

catcher09,

As I've been told (because I complained to my sons' counselor about this very topic)--although the unweighted GPA may be higher if no honors or AP classes are taken, if those classes are offered and a kid doesn't take them, the college takes that into consideration and it will "count against" the kid. The number of AP or honors classes taken are considered, too. They "look at everything"--the strength of the schedule, the strength of the school, and whether a kid slacks off senior year....

In addition to the ACT or SAT and counselor and teacher recommendations.

Not to mention activities.........and service projects........

On all of this stuff - don't get too hung up on it.

Good friend of mine's daughter graduated 2nd in her HS class. Why? She played softball and each time she did, she got an "unweighted" 'A' which lowered her GPA relative to the #! student who didn't play any sports. Otherwise they were equal.

While neither would have problems getting into nearly any college...which one do you think Harvard, Stanford, etc... would admit first? Yep, the #2 ranked kid...she's at Stanford now.

Point is the college's admissions offices sort all this stuff out.

quote:

Not to mention activities.........and service projects........

Just be a little careful with this statement. For the more selective schools, its not about volume but about quality and uniqueness. An elite athlete, an elite violinist, someone who has written a book or published a short story or poem, worked for a Congressman with something to show for it, etc...

Everyone is working at the local hospital and thats great. That won't necessarily raise you to the top of the admit pile. My friend's daughter had an experiment on the space shuttle. Those types of things get their attention.

quote:

For the more selective schools, its not about volume but about quality and uniqueness.

I agree.

But you have to do SOMETHING. And something is better than NOTHING.

play baseball - You are absolutely right. I'm sorry if I sounded critical...didn't mean that at all.

Just make sure the weighed classes and honors classes are on the Clearinghouse core class list

Many are not

quote:

Originally posted by Midlo Dad:
With the extra points systems, no matter how high the GPA number gets inflated, in the end your class rank will tell the tale.

Must beg to differ here. Class rank only tells the tale within a given school. Some schools are exceptionally strong academically, and someone who is in the top 20% at one of these schools could easily be in the top 10% at another. SAT's are probably a better standard, but even that is not perfect.


It sure would be nice if schools would at least standardize on the advanced course multiplier. Around here some schools use 1.2, others 1.1.

quote:

Originally posted by BeenthereIL:
Only so many times you can take Ceramics; Film Study; Gym; Small Engine Repair; Cooking; Baking; and Gardening in high school.

Don't I know it Been...at my high school the number of times they allowed was four...they wouldn't let me take Small Engine Repair for the fifth time (I was trying to improve upon the D I got in it the fourth time I took it)...my dream of earning the much coveted Briggs & Stratton Gas Powered Gumption Award just wasn't going to fall in my grasp...so close, yet so 4-cycle away...lousy administrators!



Briggs & Stratton "For a start...pull on us! "


...but check the choke first.

Bum:

Intersting observations here. But if your son has great grades within his own school and if that school has a history of high performing students, particularly at Stanford, and if he has stellar test scores and if he is a stud among studs as a baseball player, then you have no worries. Otherwise, his list ought to go deeper than just Stanford.

most any HS transcript shows weighted and unweighted gpa and colleges also sort that out. They also look to what your courses consisted of and the trend in your gpa as you progress through HS.

Any college worth its salt knows about grade inflation and knows what to look for. Heck many colleges practice grade inflation themselves so they know what they are looking at.

GPA inflation and disparties from school to school is also why tests such as the ACT and SAT continue to carry more and more weight, which is not necessairly fair or a true measure either.

.
SAT whine....

What about the kid who busts his behind and gets grades mainly because he works hard?

Do we undervalue him/her by heavily weighting the Test scores? (which are not as influeneced by hard work)

Is there any larger lessons to be learned by the fact that we may value intrinsic intelligence over the kind won through effort? Does this send a message to our kids?

Does this parallel baseball where/when pure Tools are valued over a kid who knows how to play the game right?


Quote from a college coach at one of the top 4 academic instiutions in the country...

quote:

...our admissions dept REALLY likes underacheivers...kids with high test scores and much lower corresponding GPA's.....

44

O44,

quote:

Does this parallel baseball where/when pure Tools are valued over a kid who knows how to play the game right?

Right on, as usual...

I think that is the reason that admissions takes the whole kid into account--not just GPA and not just ACT/SAT scores and not just recommendations and not just extra-curricular......but the sum total of them....


I've often wished there was an "honor roll" for those students who work really really hard, and do all the homework and really study and STILL end up with C's....and that is the best they can do, no matter what....

Because we all know kids who are on the "honor roll" who don't do much work all, but who coast through their classes, AP included, and still get straight A's....

There is a parallel to baseball with this scenario, too...I think it's called "heart"...

My school grades on a 5.0 scale

I attend what is called an IB school(international baccalaureate).These schools offer college level courses,so I guess thats why the IB classes are a weighted grade

The only classes that are weighted are the IB classes,as well as AP(advanced placement) classes.I believe those are both recognized by most colleges

While Honors,Gifted,Etc classes may be tough,Im not so sure colleges "recognize" them

^^^or so Ive been told(meant to say that in the first post)

You are correct futurecatcher27.

jemaz,

His list is deeper than Stanford, although he has had interest from them, having seen him pitch in a high-profile tournament. He has also been invited to their All-Star camp as a LHP.

But my point to the discussion is not about Stanford but G.P.A.'s in general.

To make matters worst, at my son's school until just a few years ago you had to score 93+ on any test to get a 4.0. Get a 92? That's a 3.7. Pretty tough, don't you think?!

It is a good school with a solid reputation, but I was concerned about him having a level playing field when competing for a top school. Many of the posters here feel it shouldn't be a problem, and he'll probably end up pitching for a local school he really likes, but I thought it to be an interesting question.

Bum - It is a good question that has sparked a good discussion. Good job!

I really dug into the Stanford admissions process a few years ago for somewhat obvious reasons. Bottom line is no one knows the "secret formula" there or anywhere else. There as so many factors.

There's an interesting book titled, "Questions and Admissions," by Jean Fetter a former admissions dean at Stanford. Here is a link to it on Amazon.com:

Questions and Admissions

Even if Stanford were not a school of interest to you, this book is a good read for anyone considering selective admissions universities. It addresses most everything including:

* role of athletics in admissions
* legacy admissions
* faculty children
* role of other special skills/attributes in admissions
* some of the formulas they use in their process (for example, every applicant gets 2 scores right off the bat...one for academics (1-5) and one in "other" (1-5). They get about 15 5-5's every year and those kids are admitted immediately).

Anyways, this book will answer more questions on these types of universities than any of us.