4A regionals. Conferences 17, 18, 19?

This is just how it was done.  In the past the East Regional for AAA was on a seasonal rotation.  

EX. Beach vs. SED

      Peninsula vs. Eastern

The next year, the rotation would change.  I'm not positive that this is how the 4A South Regional will play out in future years, but it has the same look.  FWIW, I agree with you.  At this point, I think it should be reseeded.  As it is presently, the top two teams in the state in 4A (according to computer polls, human polls, and probably the eye test) are Hanover and Nansemond River.  They will play in the 2nd round of the 4A South Regionals if they can get by their respective opponents on Monday.

suppose two #1s or #2s are scheduled to play each other in the 2nd round?  where would the game be? are there current VHSL power rankings for all baseball teams?

Thanks

It is my understanding that the highest seed would host.  In the event of two 1s or two 2s, it would then revert to power rankings.  This too may end up being controversial as some teams played more games than others...some teams play in Spring Break tournaments against great competition (out of state).  I'm not sure how all of those variables accurately play into the power rankings, in regards to which games count, and which don't.  Or do they all count?!

the only issue wit Power Rankings is it actually doesn't address the level of competition you play. You get 7 for a win, regardless of the opponent. You get 0 for a loss unless its against a higher regional opponent, in which case you get 2 points. That point total is divided into the number of games played to determine a power ranking. The problem is, the point totals are not weighted by the level of talent in your district. You get 7 for a win against a 1-15 team and 7 for a win against a 12-5 team. The districts (the old now going away districts) are not created equally from a talent perspective. Here in lies the issue....Look I understand that VHSL cant run a BCS type program and i would not expect them to do so, but the talent disparity among the districts is probably the biggest offset to the Power Ranking

Agreed.

If we're going to use power rankings though, it should be done in an effort to re-seed at this point in the tournament.  If you were to re-seed the 4A South, it may look like this (or some combo thereof).  Personally, I think it should be re-seeded throughout the regional.  Just my opinion.

1/2 Hanover and Nansemond River

3/4 Grafton and Midlo

5/6 Kings Fork and Churchland

7/8 Jamestown and Wilson

In such a case, Grafton and Midlo would not be facing each other in the first round, regardless of who was the three and who was the four.  Also, Hanover and NR would not be on the same side of the bracket.

Yes we need a 1 thru 8 seeding now for sure... and I really don't care how they came up with the power rankings... But my huge confusion is:

WHERE ARE THE PUBLISHED VHSL POWER RANKINGS FOR EVERY HIGH SCHOOL BASEBALL TEAM?

Kind of remiss not to have them on the VHSL and always current in todays age of technology. And should be available to everyone right now, for planning and consistency.

Football always has them available

Great job being done to turn around the Wilson baseball program. First year coach who had to replace 7 graduated starters. Five underclassmen in the starting lineup. Won the conference tournament, and first time in regionals since 2000. 

Pitchout

What power rankings...???  That has never been used in VA baseball?? What are you asking for?

Teams have points associated with them based on a huge criteria laid out by VHSL. Whether they use them or not for anything purposeful seems up for debate. Power rankings may be the wrong label; but that would be the result, if you use the score?

In the 5A South Regionals, it is set up as a "mini-regional" so to speak.  Whereas, the Tidewater group is on one side of the bracket, and the Richmond/North group is on the other.  Therefore, one program from Tidewater will end up playing another from the Richmond/North Group for the Regional Championship.  Also, that ensures that one program from each area is represented in the sate Final Four.  It is my understanding that 6A South is doing the same thing.

That seems reasonable to me.  By no means perfect (what is?), but sensible.

http://www.vhsl.org/doc/upload...5A-south-bracket.pdf

The most frustrating aspect of the reorganization is that there is no consistency.  The VHSL goes and reorganizes an entire statewide classification system, and meanwhile, your neighbor has no clue what's going on, because they operate under a different set of guidelines.

What happened to that whole, convoluted points system they were talking about before the season?  I haven't seen any evidence that it's been used anywhere.  Seems like all the conference tourneys have been seeded purely by W-L record.

Midlo,

I've seen it, I understand that it exists, and is supposed to be used...but can't locate it anywhere on the VHSL website.  How it is going to be used is a wait and see, I'm afraid.  Like everything else, I think it's at the discretion of each conference, and then region.

Closest thing to it, is this guy who claims he isn't affiliated... but you can clearly see some of the VHSL rating system in use.

http://www.centralvahighschool...aseballstandings.htm

The stats listed are incorrect but good reading. Wish VHSL supplied something like it to the general public. Hanover is unbeaten in VA. Shows loss to Midlo in Conference final wish is just misprint. And they are only ranked 3rd in Divison 4 South? Didn't they win States with big schools last year too?

grrrrrrrrr

I think the "3rd" you are referring to is how the individual ranks them in accordance to others in the Richmond area.   Not 3rd in the 4A South Region.

The #3 ranking you refer to is for the entire Central Region not Division 4 South.  Hanover is #3 behind Cosby and Douglas Freeman.

Well the #3 ranking i was refering too was actually 4A South as 

1- Churchland who lost

2-Nansemond River who won and will host Hanover

3- Hanover who won and will travel to NR

4- Grafton who defeated Midlo.

the same is true in 4 North

as 

1- Eastern View lost to Sherando

2-Amherst who won and will host Millbrook

3-Millbrook who won and will travel to Amherst

4-Pulaski County who lost to Louisa

so point is what does regular season stand for if you are just going to appoint said conference seeds randomly each year anyway? Still Great Baseball being played just wrong that some Great teams won't get to experience the State finals based on improper seeding practices. IMHO...Though there always is the topic of who the teams play Strength of schedule etc....example only ( Millbrook beat Defending State Champ Sherando twice this year and they might not get by Amherst) where Sherando is playing Louisa who some say might not be on par with Amherst?

Thanks for getting me straight on this.  I agree that how Hanover could be the #3 seed in 4A South without losing to any VA team is strange.

Incorrect.  Churchland is the No. 4 Power Ranking behind, in order,
Nansemond River, Hanover, Grafton.   There is no "seeding" in the 4A South.  Not sure where you are getting your info!

The tournament was set up to cross bracket conferences.  This was predetermined last summer.  As a matter of fact...the brackets for 4A South are IDENTICAL to other sports.  ie. softball, field hockey, soccer, etc. have run, or are running through the same bracket structure.

I understand that the Power Rankings for 4A South were as follows:

1 Nansemond River

2 Hanover

3 Grafton

4 Churchland

5 Midlothian 

6 Kings Fork

7 Jamestown

8 Wilson

I agree though, from the standpoint that the region would better served by seeding the teams vs. a predetermined cross bracket system.  I even like the 5A and 6A structure much better than what 4A is doing.

Semantics, your right, I 'm right depending on how you read the post I put up. All good I just feel sorry for one of the teams that is deserving of playing at States that won't get the opportunity. As you are a NR Fan probably will be more thread on this tomorrow after you'll end up disappointed...and the same in the Millbrook  vs Amherst game..all I am saying.

There is nothing that you posted that is accurate regarding "ranking" or "seeding".  I read the post precisely how you wrote it.  It's not semantics.  It is incorrect.

Otherwise, I agree that the regional tournament for 4A South could use some tweaking.  You also assume that Hanover is going to walk over Nansemond River?

What is your take on the bracket then? If I am so inaccurate What seed was Churchland? draw up a bracket that has the seed numbers next to them other than 1 2.

Most times 1 plays 8, 2 plays 7, 3 plays 6, 4 plays 5.... isn't that the brackets you guys use..? So my take is the NR and Hanover were 3 & 4  and the same with Amherst and Millbrook. But reality is the seedings were predetermined and the regular season didn't mean that much expect practice. As my original post stated Hanover didn't lose to Midlo which was also accurate on my part?  But all good, as there is some good Baseball for everyone tomorrow. I didn't mean to insinuate that Hanover would roll over your boys. But believe if they do, you will be talking about the seedings  That's all. Good Luck to your team tomorrow. Whomever they may be

Explaining this to you is the equivalent of giving an open book test.  The problem is, you want to argue with the text.

The difference between your view and mine is simple.  You want "my take".  I don't have a take.  I and others, have already explained the bracket.  What I have stated is not up for interpretation.  I have stated precisely how it works!  There is no "drawing another bracket"!   You are simply trying to interpret what you think it means, or what you think it should mean.  Just go with it!

For the final time...the bracket for baseball, and most if not all other sports for 4A, was predetermined.  They simply cross bracketed the first place finishers with the second place finishers of other conferences.  Hence, the 1 and 2 seeds!  Beyond that, there is no re-seeding.  Power Rankings are used to determine tiebreakers.  (If you would like to view anything as a "seed", you would use the Power Rankings)

The 1s were/are:  Churchland, Grafton, Nansemond River, Hanover 

The 2s were/are:  Wilson, Jamestown, Kings Fork, and Midlothian

Games are not "seeded" at the Regional level.  Only at the conference level, and for the purpose of beginning the bracket.  The bracket is set and then played out.  I've already given you the final power rankings if you look above.  Churchland was the FOUR power ranking, behind Nansemond River, Hanover, and Grafton.  (Had Churchland won, they would have traveled to Grafton today).

Finally, there will be no need to talk about the "seedings", as you say, after the games today.  That has already been done.  The bracket format was being discussed before any games were played, much less prior to you joining the thread.  I am on the record for stating that I don't like it.  Regardless of who wins or loses today, anywhere in Virginia, I don't like the format.  If you go to the top of this thread and read it...you will see that.

Pitchout31 and Dodgerdog,

As GoHeels has tried to make clear, the VHSL system of predeterming the matchups by districts / regions (now conferences / regions), without a “seeding,”  has been in place for years (at least 14 which is the reaches of my memory of the matchups.)  One used to be able to (and may still be able to) look up the predetermined matchups for 3 years or so out.  (Perhaps one of you might wish to do the research.)  The matchups were set on a rotation, as GoHeels has explained.  It has always been possible that the best two teams might meet in a semifinal contest, whether it be a region semifinal or a state semifinal.  However, in the past, it was not possible for teams from the same district to meet until the championship of the region or state.  What I don’t like in the “new” matchup system is that teams from the same conference (e.g., Hickory and Great Bridge in the South 5A Region or Nansemond River and King’s Fork in the South 4A) could meet in the semifinals of the region without any opportunity to both advance to states.  There needs to be a cross-matching like in years past where that could not happen.

WB,

I actually don't mind the "mini-regional" look of 5A and 6A.  While I agree that it stinks that only one can go to the State Tournament...the variables are different.  The State Tournament is only 4 teams now instead of 8.  In essence, WB & Granby are two of eight remaining teams in the state at this point, which shares some consistency to the previous set-up.  Also, to the extent that there are twice as many opportunities to advance (6A vs 3A), the mini-regional structure works for me.  The SED alone could have 4 teams in their respective Final Fours.  (or zero)

We also have the Power Rankings now, which previouly did not exist.  While there is plenty of room for improvement and clarification as to how they work, I find it mind-numbing that the VHSL would go through such a process, and we would only use them for tie-breaking purposes.  Why bother?

Otherwise, thank you for trying to clarify my previous points.

My whole reason for being in dismay has only been amplified and justified.

The issue here is also the TRANSPORTATION and driving 200 miles round trip to play a team that you may have had a higher POWER RATING THAN. I am not saying this is the case with this bracket; but according to what has ben done, it actually could be the case... and that's just wrong.  Where are the precise VHSL Power RATINGS??? utilizing the point system for wins, losses and strength of schedule (weighted for classification, i.e. 4A 5A 6A)... Where are these numbers so we can see how legitimate or convoluted this all was??  It's about who deserves to be playing at home as much as anything - and I don't see how this was at all considered?! Savvy?

Pitchout,

Your point is well taken, and I agree with you.  I have seen the power ranking worksheet before, but cannot find it on the VHSL site today (or in recent days).

The way it was written is as follows:

7 points for a win

1 point for a loss when playing above your classification, per level.

EX.  4A team loses to 6A team, 4A team gets 2 points.

       5A team loses to 6A team, 5A team gets 1 point.

There are no point deductions for losses.  The total amount of points earned, divided by the games played = Power Ranking.

This is what I saw many (and I do mean MANY) months ago.  Is it the same today?  I don't know.  I appreciate your attempt in being politically correct and classy at the same time!  But let's go ahead and put the terd on the table.

NR has 21 wins and 2 losses.  They lost to Western Branch (6A) and Hickory (5A).  That equals 150 points, divided by 23 games.  Power Ranking = 6.52

Hanover, I believe, has 16 wins and 2 losses (both of which occurred in SC).  The 16 wins are worth 112 points (they did get credit for the win in SC also), divided by 18 games.  Power Rankings = 6.22

I cannot verify that this is exactly how it was calculated, as I am not privy to that information.  I am only presenting as a hypothetical example.  I could be wrong, but it is my understanding that the same Power Rankings system is used for other non-football sports.  I think football has a different system entirely.

This conversation would not even be taking place if they (4A) had actually used a seeding system or the min-regional approach that other classifications have implemented.  As it is, there will be a very talented bunch of young men playing their hearts out on a Wednesday night...all across Virginia.

Go Heels,

Still don't accept the mini-regional approach.  I hear you when you say that only 4 teams go to the state tournament.  However, under the old system, theoretically, two teams from the same district could be in the state championship.  Can't happen now?  What if the two best teams are in the same conference?

Transportation and power rankings are two independent issues.  What if teams with the highest and second highest power rankings were from the same conference?  How does that fit into your transportation argument?

For years, teams from the Southeastern District (Indian River, Great Bridge, Western Branch, Nansemond River) have had to travel to West Field HS in Chantilly to play in the state tournament.  On a couple of occasions, when rain and lightening result in a postponement, the teams had to travel back for the night and then return the next day (ala, Indian River and Western Branch.)  Oops, looks like if a team from the SED makes it to the state tournament this year, it could have to travel to northern Virginia again, where the state tournaments have resided, not just for baseball, but for many other spring sports, for years.

Why haven't you complained before on behalf of those schools making the many mile trek?