60 yard dash time for 14 year old and 15 year old

I know this is an older post, but caught my eye because I was wanting to establish an ACCURATE 60 yard baseline time for my 15U son.  My son is usually one of the faster kids on any team he plays on, but usually not the fastest. I recently hand timed him in the 7.5 range. What's funny is that when I shared that w/a father on his summer team that Dad didn't believe me. He swears his son runs a 7.3 and since my son is faster than his, my son MUST run close to 7 flat!  Anyhow, I believe I came up with a VERY accurate way to measure 60 times and everyone has the tools to do it (or can download the tool for free).  That free tool (Windows based) is Kinovea.  It is a surprisingly powerful video analysis tool (NO, I'm not affiliated at all).  I went out with my boy today, measured off 180' exactly.  Marked his start and finish lines and handheld my camera (set to 120 FPS) perpendicular to the finish line.  I had my son setup to start and he gave me a 10 sec "heads up" prior to his start to begin recording. I started w/the camera fixed on his start, so I could determine his exact start time.  I then panned to the finish line where I captured the exact moment he crossed.  Taking this video into the software, it was then easy to setup a stopwatch (the software knows the source video was taken at 120fps) that begins the moment my son started his movement forward.   It was just as easy to stop the stopwatch at the moment my son crossed the finish line.  IMO, this method (assuming that most modern cameras are fairly accurate in their timing) is MUCH more accurate than hand-timing.   The results were a 7.39 first pass and 7.52 second pass.  If anyone is interested in more details or wants to see the video results please shoot me an IM and I share.  

DALEX posted:

I know this is an older post, but caught my eye because I was wanting to establish an ACCURATE 60 yard baseline time for my 15U son.  My son is usually one of the faster kids on any team he plays on, but usually not the fastest. I recently hand timed him in the 7.5 range. What's funny is that when I shared that w/a father on his summer team that Dad didn't believe me. He swears his son runs a 7.3 and since my son is faster than his, my son MUST run close to 7 flat!  Anyhow, I believe I came up with a VERY accurate way to measure 60 times and everyone has the tools to do it (or can download the tool for free).  That free tool (Windows based) is Kinovea.  It is a surprisingly powerful video analysis tool (NO, I'm not affiliated at all).  I went out with my boy today, measured off 180' exactly.  Marked his start and finish lines and handheld my camera (set to 120 FPS) perpendicular to the finish line.  I had my son setup to start and he gave me a 10 sec "heads up" prior to his start to begin recording. I started w/the camera fixed on his start, so I could determine his exact start time.  I then panned to the finish line where I captured the exact moment he crossed.  Taking this video into the software, it was then easy to setup a stopwatch (the software knows the source video was taken at 120fps) that begins the moment my son started his movement forward.   It was just as easy to stop the stopwatch at the moment my son crossed the finish line.  IMO, this method (assuming that most modern cameras are fairly accurate in their timing) is MUCH more accurate than hand-timing.   The results were a 7.39 first pass and 7.52 second pass.  If anyone is interested in more details or wants to see the video results please shoot me an IM and I share.  

I like it!

DALEX posted:

I know this is an older post, but caught my eye because I was wanting to establish an ACCURATE 60 yard baseline time for my 15U son.  My son is usually one of the faster kids on any team he plays on, but usually not the fastest. I recently hand timed him in the 7.5 range. What's funny is that when I shared that w/a father on his summer team that Dad didn't believe me. He swears his son runs a 7.3 and since my son is faster than his, my son MUST run close to 7 flat!  Anyhow, I believe I came up with a VERY accurate way to measure 60 times and everyone has the tools to do it (or can download the tool for free).  That free tool (Windows based) is Kinovea.  It is a surprisingly powerful video analysis tool (NO, I'm not affiliated at all).  I went out with my boy today, measured off 180' exactly.  Marked his start and finish lines and handheld my camera (set to 120 FPS) perpendicular to the finish line.  I had my son setup to start and he gave me a 10 sec "heads up" prior to his start to begin recording. I started w/the camera fixed on his start, so I could determine his exact start time.  I then panned to the finish line where I captured the exact moment he crossed.  Taking this video into the software, it was then easy to setup a stopwatch (the software knows the source video was taken at 120fps) that begins the moment my son started his movement forward.   It was just as easy to stop the stopwatch at the moment my son crossed the finish line.  IMO, this method (assuming that most modern cameras are fairly accurate in their timing) is MUCH more accurate than hand-timing.   The results were a 7.39 first pass and 7.52 second pass.  If anyone is interested in more details or wants to see the video results please shoot me an IM and I share.  

Thanks for the tip. I've often thought that a HTF time would be best measured by something like this approach, because without video it is really hard -- or takes a ton of experience and skill -- to get an accurate read. 

7.00 is Major League average in the 60.  Very few 14 year olds run better than 7.00. We had many of the very best 14 year old players in the entire country at the nationally televised PG Select Festival last year.  Most all of them ran the 60.  Most were between 7 flat and 7.5, but none of them were 7 flat or better.

Thanks, this is great, and very timely for me.  I've just become aware of the potential major differences between hand timing and electronic.  My son was hand timed twice by two different coaches at two different events last summer, and each time got a 6.7.  This year running indoor track was hand timed at 55 meters (a step longer than 60 yards) at 6.7.  Just recently, in the state meet he was electronically timed in the 55 at 7.0.

During our SF Giants Area Code tryouts at Fresno State, I prepared the daily schedule with the pro scouts. Over 200 college coaches and pro scouts were in attendance.

the second hour was running the 60 yard. As an extra test, after the 60 yard, I invited the Fresno State track coach to provide instruction as to "proper" running. After the instruction we ran the 60 test again. There was a 5% improvement on the running times.

In all our AC tryouts and games for 17 years, I encouraged the scouts [former players] to share their

knowledge.

Bob

Ok, instead of trying to describe the process I employed w/Kinovea, I put together a video, here is link to youtube.  Please let me know what you think in terms of an accurate measurement.  Thanks!  https://youtu.be/lcuZsWa8UHU

DALEX posted:

Ok, instead of trying to describe the process I employed w/Kinovea, I put together a video, here is link to youtube.  Please let me know what you think in terms of an accurate measurement.  Thanks!  https://youtu.be/lcuZsWa8UHU

Thanks for the video.  I will try it out.. Thx

Have him play a second sport where speed is key. Basketball, soccer or football. My son got a lot quicker being chased by big angry guys in football. These sports are also conditioning heavy and working on your speed while enjoying a sport is a great way to do that.

Have to second Dospeloteros suggestion.  My 2017 played soccer all the way through last week, and I think it helped his speed a lot.  He was at 7.0 until Nov of Jr. year, and then knocked about .2 off his time by spring of Jr. year, right after soccer ended.  He's been consistently at 6.8 ever since.

Winter Track helped my 2018...went from a 7.8 fall of freshman year to a 6.9 (at PG event)summer before junior year...

DALEX posted:

Ok, instead of trying to describe the process I employed w/Kinovea, I put together a video, here is link to youtube.  Please let me know what you think in terms of an accurate measurement.  Thanks!  https://youtu.be/lcuZsWa8UHU

Dalex,

Very cool.  I appreciate you taking the time to share this info and video.  Not sure who is having more fun with this "baseball thing?"   You or your son??  I've actually learned a lot about making sports videos on this site, chiefly from Shane52.  This adds a completely new chapter.

Thanks!

My boys were laser timed a few weeks ago at Parisi speed school.  

My 14.5 year old (8th grade) ran a 8.07.  

My 15 (almost 16) year old (Soph) was 7.15.   He plays OF and pitches.   His showcase coach told me "7.15 is slightly above average for 15 almost 16 year old".

There was a freshman teammate there, and he ran 6.96.  He plays CF.   He was the fastest kid there that day.   

If running is your "tool" (as it was key in son's recruiting), or position dictates footspeed (CF/MI) then it makes sense to seek someone who can improve speed technique (like a power hitter--weight trainer, pitcher- pitching coach). Son ran indoor track from sophomore to senior year in HS which taught him technique. I wasn't surprised when his best baseball 60s were run at showcases during the middle of indoor track season. Early on when you are prepping for a showcase, find a football field which is easy to measure 60 yards. That will give you some idea of times, and if you are consistent in way you are timing son, you will at least able to see improvements, and know when it is a good time to have 60 clocked by "third party."

Something to keep in mind with anything involving a stop watch. Home to first, 60 yard, Pop times, etc.

Don't be surprised if dads times are faster than scout times.  That is often the case.  I think it is because dad wants to record the best possible time and the scout wants to be extra sure he reports the correct time.  Over the years I've found real times like laser, tend to be a little faster than scouts, a little slower than dads times.  That is if the laser is used correctly.

I can't tell you how many times we have recorded 60 times and had dads tell us there must be a mistake.  Whenever possible we will run the player again and I don't recall ever seeing any big improvement, if any.  

Its not because dads are trying to mislead anyone.  It's just natural to anticipate with the trigger finger (thumb) on a stopwatch.  It can really make a big difference in the shorter times like H-1, or pop times.  Many will hear the pop in catchers glove to start the watch, but stop before the pop at 2B.  When you go be sound on one and eye sight on the other, you can have a big difference, especially when you anticipate at 2B.  As everyone knows the difference in a tenth second can be huge when it comes to pop times.  

I would suggest that dads or moms, be extra conservative and make sure your times are not too fast.  Your times won't ever count anyway, but you might be pleasantly surprised when your son compiles better times when it does count.  And at least you won't be disappointed if he doesn't.  Anytime a stop watch is used there is a chance for inaccuracy because of the human element.  Like I said that inaccuracy tends to be towards the slow side on a scouts stop watch (he wants to be sure).  It tends to be towards the fast side on a parents stop watch (they want the best possible).

Agree with PG stopwatch stuff is tough.  I think obviously velocities are what they are not too tough for a parent to take those.  But timing is hard.  I just go by what the football coaches get for the 40.  I figure if his 40 time is improving so will his home to first and 60 time.  Cause for him being a big guy its mostly about the start and getting  all that mass going.  Track season starts in a week and a half.  He will go work out with sprinters to work on his starts.  While he won't run in meets should help him for both baseball and football.