60 Yard Time...

My son got slower for a few months when he grew seven inches (five inches in four months/an inch in a week one time) over the course of the year when he was fourteen. From the agility drills the baseball team did over the winter he got his coordination back. I don't know the specifics of the drills. He said they were SPARQ oriented. He got faster from longer, stronger legs once he wasn't a spaz.

** His sister grew fourteen inches in eighteen months. Talk about awkward for several months. She looked like a newborn calf trying to find it's feet coming out of the batter's box.

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1. Is it feasible for a kid (age 15) who is growing (and hasn't been sprinting much)to get slower...only to regain speed later?
That is very common

2. What are some good drills techniques for clipping off say 2/10ths?
Working on an efficient start is the quickest way to improve your 60 time. Get with a sprinting coach and have him look at your running form. There are numerous drills that can help including some mind games. We have had a lot of success with using distance vs time. Play some music or something you can hear that gives you some warning and then lasts two seconds. Get set at the beginning and take off at a specific time using the music or noise. Have someone check and see where you are at (distance) at the end of the music or noise. Make a mark or put down some tape if it’s indoors. This will give you a distance to beat as you practice your start and first few strides. It also makes it a bit easier than running tons of 60s and getting too tired to practice your start. We actually wrote a long manual about this stuff years ago, but don’t think we have any copies left. There is so much more involved than what I can write here.

3. What is the ideal starting position for running a 60 at a showcase or tryout??

This can vary slightly depending on size and other considerations. You want to be in a position that allows you to feel like a cat. You will be in a lead off position with your right foot slightly open and the toes on your right foot being about even with the heel of your left foot. In other words slightly open. When you run the 60 you don’t have to worry about getting picked off… You’re only going one way! We often see players cheating too much, almost facing the target or finish line. This can be just as bad as not opening up at all. You want your first cross over step to go directly in a straight line to the target or finish. Anything other than straight to the target will cause you to make adjustments to get on a straight line. These adjustments can cause minor balance problems even if you don’t feel that happening. The more accurate and efficient your start the quicker your times will be. Spend lots of time practicing and perfecting your start. The largest portion of time eliminated from your 60 will be in the first 20 feet, unless you have exceptionally bad running form. Picture a small narrow tunnel that you will be running within. Do not stand straight up as you start. Think of every body part moving in a straight line to the target/finish line. Proper arm action is very important, but it can be an individual thing as far as up and back, but wtach out for sideway movement of the arms. This can get you moving sideways when you want to keep everything as straight as possible.

One last thing… think quick! In baseball we always hear coaches talk about running hard. Run Hard! Truth is the fastest people in the world don’t run hard they run fast. Sometimes the harder a player runs the slower he moves. Just like pitchers, runners who are loose are better than runners who muscle up and run tight.

I’m pooped! Hope something there helps you. There is so much more to all of this. Good luck.

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3. What is the ideal starting position for running a 60 at a showcase or tryout??

PG uses a an electronic beam at start and finish.
Work on getting started at full speed from the start.
The faster you get out the better for your time at the end.
A couple tenth's can be saved there.
EH

Some are good at both.

Thanks PG and all!

If anyone else has any insights, I'm glad to listen/read.

PG if you find and leftover copies of the manual, I would be interested in buying a copy and/or paying the shipping.

5for5,

Shoot me an email, I'll see what is still around. If I find one, not interested in taking your money.
jerry@perfectgame.org

5for5,

Speed is good - but once you develop it - or enhance it - then you have to use it.

There is pure speed - and then there is speed combined with knowing how to use it - and when to use it.

2 totally distinct matters.

Keep that in mind - as I think it is prudent to work on both.

My husband has lined up a reputable speed coach for this summer for our son, with a goal of shaving time with better technique. We have no clue, is this a process that can be completed in 1, 2, 10 or how many sessions?

Some posters mentioned PG on here, and another mentioned that the start would be in the baserunner's position as if leading off of first base. . . Is that how PG does its starts when timing the 60? How about Baseball Factory? TOP96?

I am trying to figure out what to expect at a showcase 60. Do you normally run with another player or more than one other? In spikes on grass? And do most of these have the players start in a leadoff sort of position? Do you run on your own on or at the sound of a gun?

quote:

How about Baseball Factory? TOP96?

I am trying to figure out what to expect at a showcase 60. Do you normally run with another player or more than one other? In spikes on grass? And do most of these have the players start in a leadoff sort of position? Do you run on your own on or at the sound of a gun?

Posts: 51 | Location: Virginia | Registered:

My kid ran the 60 at the BF showcase. They ran in pairs, on the grass in their cleats. Looked like a standard track start position and they started at a coach's "go." Best advice I have heard here is to run way through the finish line. Most kids stopped about 3 feet after the stopwatch.

quote:

Originally posted by 5for5:
2. What are some good drills techniques for clipping off say 2/10ths?

One of the best ways to get faster is to stretch. I am not talking about a few stretches during warmups but a serious stretching regimen. You might improve your time a little by improving on your starting technique and your running technique, but if you want some serious improvment you must become a better conditioned human. A very flexible person can do more than an inflexible person.

As an example, I could pick any male gymnast and he could outrun just about every ballplayer in the 60 yd dash. Their training makes them much faster than before they took up gymnastics. Conversely, training for baseball doesn't contribute to running faster.

You also might want to combine stretching with some weightlifting. But don't go heavy on the squats. Your leg muscles(quads and hammies) must be kept equally strong to avoid hamstring pulls. Too many kids go nuts on the squats and only build up the front of their legs. Do your homework before putting together an exercise program.

Also, make sure to let your son know that there are no shortcuts and it is a long process to dramatically improve yourself. But stepping out onto the field in top shape is a great feeling.

Sluggo

I would say 1 or 2 lessons are not enough....I'd say 2x wk for a month or 2

My kid ran the 60 at a D1 camp/showcase. They ran in pairs, on the grass in their cleats. The start position was just standing upright at the starting line (facing the finish line) and they started at a coach's "go." I agree with the idea to preach to the players "run through the finish line, not just to it!"

if the timing uses lasers at the start and end, i would take a running start instead of a static start. but that also means you will be running a longer distance.

in any event, speed is good but it wont get you on the team if that's all you can do. if you cant hit your speed is pretty useless.

Running starts are not permitted for a true 60 speed

At most PG events a Laser is used at start and finnish. You run in pairs on grass, I would advise cleats(!). You always start from a static (stopped) position, therefore getting a running start is not a possibility. Once you cross the laser your time begins and when you cross the laser at the finnish your time ends. Although you have someone you are running alongside, you are not racing them. They may get a better jump on you but your time does not begin until you break that laser line. There are various techniques for a start position, but the start is the critical point in time for the 60, you need to get to full speed in somewhere around 3 strides and finnish strong. Good Luck!

quote:

As an example, I could pick any male gymnast and he could outrun just about every ballplayer in the 60 yd dash. Their training makes them much faster than before they took up gymnastics. Conversely, training for baseball doesn't contribute to running faster.

Dear old Dad,

You can’t possibly be serious about what you posted above.

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My kid ran the 60 at a D1 camp/showcase. They ran in pairs, on the grass in their cleats. The start position was just standing upright at the starting line (facing the finish line) and they started at a coach's "go."

Mofireman,

This would be out of the ordinary as a starting position at any MLB tryout or any showcase. The lead off position (somewhat modified) is the standard starting position. The times would not be meaningful in any other way.

quote:

if the timing uses lasers at the start and end, i would take a running start instead of a static start. but that also means you will be running a longer distance.

Baseballtoday,

We use laser timing and players can not take a running start. They start from the standard lead off position just behind the start line. In addition to the laser, we time with stop watch. So if we see a huge difference in time we have the runner run again and watch very closely.

I hate to say it, but nothing makes a kid faster than a season or two of club socker. There just is no way to duplicate the panic hard running, over and over with the adrenaline that goes with competition. Be a midfielder.
I question speed without instincts though, our so called fast kids get thrown out over and over, don't know how to get a lead or read a pitcher.

quote:

Originally posted by PGStaff:

quote:

As an example, I could pick any male gymnast and he could outrun just about every ballplayer in the 60 yd dash. Their training makes them much faster than before they took up gymnastics. Conversely, training for baseball doesn't contribute to running faster.

Dear old Dad,

You can’t possibly be serious about what you posted above.

PG,

Gymnasts are fast. They need to be, just like pole vaulters. Considering the tremendous shape their in and the need for speed in their sport, why would you think that their not?

And thanks for the unkind way of disagreeing with me.

Dear old Dad,

I apologize if that sounded unkind.

Let me try again...

The fastest baseball players are often highly recruited football wide receivers and running backs. I can't think of a single gymnast who was also a track star or a football wide receiver or running back. Carl Crawford is fast, he was an excellent football option QB and a basketball star. I don't think he was ever involved in gymnastics. I doubt there is a gymnast in the world that can out run him.

Bo Jackson was a baseball player and an all pro running back. I'm absolutely positive that there has never been a gymnast who could run faster than him.

Which gymnast has ever run fast enough to out run the fastest baseball players? Which are often among the fastest football players, as well?

The fastest runners are the world class sprinters who run in things like the olympics. I've never known any who also did gymnastics. I guess it is possible though.

Which gymnast was ever timed in a sprint? If you said that gymnast's were more flexable and left it at that, I would agree.

So once again... You can't possibly be serious when you say this...

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As an example, I could pick any male gymnast and he could outrun just about every ballplayer in the 60 yd dash.

I don't know how to reply to that statement other than to ask if you are really serious!

If you can name one gymnast who has run a world class time, I will eat my hat. It wouldn't be my first hat meal.

PG, maybe he was just talking in general about high school guys, even college guys - if the two were just running straight 60's baseball vs gymnastic guys high school or college, I would probably put my money on the gymnastic team overall. They are built for sprinting and trained for explosive starts. Baseball guys may be naturally athletic and speedy, but in general they do not train so many hours for speed as football guys do. Of course the time is spent, just not as much, they have to spread their time between specialized training to hit, field, throw, etc. Many baseball guys just don't run too well.

Perhaps my problem is not knowing much about gymnastics. Certainly do not want to discount the agilty, strength, balance, and training involved.

Guess I don't understand the explosive starts used in gymnastics. It appears that even when tumbling there is a controlled start that then works up speed, much like a long jumper in track.

Of all the things gymnasts work on, how high on the list is running speed? How often do they work on 60 yard sprints? Don't they run mostly for conditioning purposes. Does the average gymnast run more than an outfielder in baseball? Which sport is the ability to run fast more important? Which sport has the most running involved?

I think great gymnasts can do amazing things. They deserve a lot of respect for the difficulty of their sport and the obvious hard work involved. I'm even sure there are "some" gymnasts who can run faster than "some" baseball players.

I just don't agree that you could take any male gymnast and he would outrun just about every baseball player in the 60 yd dash. That is discounting speed and quickness in baseball. Yes, there are some baseball players who do not run well, but there are many others who do. There are many who have played other sports where quickness and speed are important.

Is there a way of proving any of this. I must admit... I've seen thousands of baseball players run the 60, but I don't recall ever seeing a gymnast run the 60... Do they?

I still have a few hats around that I haven't eaten yet. But the supply is running low.

PG,

Let me clarify my statement. I did not mean to imply that any gymnast could out sprint every baseball player in the world throughout history. I'm not talking world class speed here. Besides, even at the pro level, there are only a handful of players with world class speed. There are hardly any at the H.S. level. I am talking about varsity age kids looking to improve so they can get to the next level.

I've been involved with gymnastics for the last dozen years and I have been involved with baseball all my life. After watching the top baseball players from the Northeast at a top showcase running the 60yd dash, I can honestly say that I could pick any gymnast on any H.S. team and he would beat 95% of the baseball players. Their overall speed is weak. You have pitchers, catchers, the corner positions and even many middle infielders who aren't very fast. And compared to the average gymnast, they are grossly out of shape as well.

The original question was how to improve on the 60yd dash. I suggested a serious stretching program and weight training as well. I used gymnasts as an example because they are not known for their speed. But they are fast. Their sport conditions them that way. If a gymnast, after years of training, still cannot get down the runway fast enough, he will not be a successful one. Speed is as important to gymnasts as it is to centerfielders. The difference is, the gymnast conditions himself to be as fast as he can be. Ballplayers do little to improve their natural athletic gifts. At least compared to gymnasts.

As far as crossing over into other sports, gymnasts rarely do. Gymnastics is a full time sport. Three to four hours a day, six days a week, year round with private lessons on the rare off day.

A child starting out in gymnastics at tee ball age would have to train for three years to get into good enough condition to make the team. Only team members get to compete. Can you imagine telling a little tee baller that it will be all pushups, stretching and running for three years until they can play in a game. And even if that tee baller finally made the team, can you imagine telling him there are only six to eight games a year. That's how many gymnastics meets there are in a year. Some gymnasts never get good enough to make a team but stay with the sport anyway. Some of them become cheerleaders.

My point here is that because of their extreme conditioning, gymnasts actually improve their ability to run fast because they become a superior version of themselves. That is why I highly recommend a winter of gymnastics for any ballplayer who wants to reach his peak physically.

One more point, you said that there has never been a gymnast who could run faster than Bo Jackson. One could make the same statement about baseball players. Has there ever been one who ran faster than Bo Jackson. Probably not, but how is the statement even relevant to the topic of me saying gymnasts can out run most baseball players?

I can make obvious statements as well. I am sure there has never been a gymnast slower than Mo Vaughn.

Are there 60 times for any gymnasts?

Any ever recorded?

3 Choices:

1. Frappier Acceleration Frappier Acceleration

2. Athletic Republic (formerly Frappier Accel);Athletic Republic

Not sure where your are located in Florida. There is an Athletic Republic in Orlando

3. Uphill & Downhill Sprints

We have had great sucess with the No. 2 and No. 3

My 16 yr old ran sub 6.7 at last PG showcase in the fall.

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Originally posted by TRhit:
Are there 60 times for any gymnasts?

Any ever recorded?

I don't know of any coaches timing their gymnasts in the 60yd dash or even the 40 yd dash. One of my best friends has his own gymnastics studio and nobody gets timed. My daughter never got timed and she went to several gymnastics studios.

Gymnasts don't pay attention to their speed other than to observe if they need to improve it to compete. The same with strength. A gymnastics coach might tell a student they need to get stronger, but there are no standards like in baseball or football.

A good baseball comparison might be the strength of a catcher's legs. We all know a catcher's legs are in great shape but nobody is testing them or comparing them to other catchers. The same would apply to gymnasts, as long as they are strong enough and fast enough to perform the tricks, nobody cares. It is all about how perfect they can execute the tricks. Getting as close as possible to the elusive perfect 10 score.

PG,

Here are some answers to your questions.

How important is speed? Very important for the vault. If a gymnast cannot run fast enough they are like a pole vaulter who can't run fast enough, doomed to failure and defeat.

They never work on 60 yd sprints. Their sprint work is contained to the blue mat they call the floor exercise.

Gymnasts run a lot. During a three hour workout there will be a couple miles of running. Baseball players do some running as well but it varies more in baseball than gymnastics, depending on the coach.

Being able to run fast enough to perform the tricks is essential to gymnastics. You cannot substitute another skill for it and still compete. In baseball you have many more options to achieve success. A strong arm alone can make you a millionaire.

When people watch gymnasts they see the obvious strength and balance but their speed is hidden. It would be interesting to take 100 random H.S. gymnasts and 100 random H.S. centerfielders and see how the 60yd times play out.

My daughter was a competative gymnast from the age of 9 until hs. ( her training began at age 6.)
From the age of 9 she trained in a gym year round,6 days a wk, 4 hrs a day for years... 2hr per day was only conditioning. Lifting weights, sit ups, chin up, push ups, plymetrics etc. and some running. Gymnasts are in amazing shape.
Id say pound for pound she was in better physical condition than any other athlete in her school.

No they don't run a 60 but...they do work on explosive starts when vaulting and tumbling.

Don't know much about gymnastics speed, but will say when my son's school did the Presidential fitness testing a GIRL gymnast whipped everybody. Among other things, she did 36 pull-ups (age 11).

5 for 5: If I am not mistaken, I think if you go to the Nike Sparq testing web-site there are videos of some of the speed drills they recommend.

Its a never ending process. You will never throw too hard , hit it too far , field too good or run too fast.

You never reach the point where you say "Im fast enough I dont have to work on that anymore. My 60 time is great so I can relax now."

For the player always looking to improve and get better its a never ending process of striving to always get better.

When our players come into our program we hope that they have already started working on the things that will enable them to become better players. But the work begins and it continues until they hang up the spikes one day. We can debate what is most usefull to the cows come home. But what can not be debated imo is the fact that the players that continue to work to improve at the things that will make them better players always get better. And the ones that do not reach a point where they are as good as they are ever going to be.

It does not mean squat if you can outrun a stallion if you cannot run the bases and read the pitchers moves--- Speed is great but you have to know how to use it--if you cannnot use it you in th eright way you might as well be a snail

Just curious to those in the know. What is a "sign on the spot" 60 time. I have heard urban legends of kids without any baseball experience getting signed because they could fly.

Actually, its not urban legend, I just can't think of any one particular name that pops ups, but I know it has happened.

A breakdown of 60 times would be helpful.

ie..6.6 considered average?
6.1 Vince Coleman-esque?

I have been told that the Div. I & Div II
guidelines for the 60 are: 6.8-7.2

Dont know what it is for pro. (???)

I run about a 9.5 60, but I can read a pitcher's move like a book. You can only hope to contain me this summer in the over 35 league.

Seriously, I know a sub 6.6 is consider fast but I was hoping someone with experience with camps and the draft could throw out some figures. Big League clubs will waste a couple late round picks each year on speed only guys hoping they can develop other tools. These players typically get a couple seasons to develop and since little money was invested, if it doesn't work out it didn't burn the club financially.

There is no "sign on the spot" 60 time. I once had a kid who ran a 6.24 in Busch Stadium at a tryout. He really knew how to use that speed. He stole 100 bases and set the all time small college record at that time. Thrown out only 9 times. He also hit over .400 that year and was a first team small college all american.

He was not drafted and did not get a chance to sign as a free agent.

He just couldn't hit well enough and he had a weak arm. Most every hit was a single, lots of bunting or beat out a ground ball. Also he was about 5-7/140 and had absolutely no power. Though he was a good defensive CF.

I'm thinking about getting some of the top local gymnastic guys and have them run the 60. You have my curiousity up.

Pitched against a guy in a rookie ball (not MiLB) game who was playing for an independent league team. Some of the other players told me he had reached AAA and there was a early to mid 70s Sports Illustrated article about him possibly being the best base stealer of all time (pre Rickey Henderson). I never personally saw the article. He never hit well enough to get past AAA despite the speed and base stealing ability. Me, I walked him. Oops.

PG,
Two very good examples of plus speed could be Eugenio Velez, the SF Giants rookie 2B, RF, you name it, and Fernando Perez, a 2004 Rays draftee from Columbia University.
Perez has/had 80 speed at Columbia. Played s****r pretty much through high school and only showed some raw talent in college baseball. Is now in AAA, likely to move up before long and is 3.6 seconds to 1B from the left side/3.8 from the right. Getting better every day. I saw him play in the MWL and he is proving himself.
Velez is a rule V player who was stuck in low A in 2005. His speed is a main factor in his game.
The Giants are doing everything they can to find places in the lineup to use his speed, while he learns to play the game.
Not sure about their gymnastics skills but speed of the type shown by these guys gets them a chance to play. If they get better, speed gets them more chances.

Im nervous about my 60 time for my upcoming PG event in june. Im working hard to shave off time,but to say the least,I run the stereotypical catchers speed.Average

Dont be nervous. Just go out there and have some fun. Be really good at catching throwing and hitting and it will make your lack of speed alot less important.

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Originally posted by Dear old Dad:

I can make obvious statements as well. I am sure there has never been a gymnast slower than Mo Vaughn.

Dear Old Dad,

Make your gymnast arguments - but dont be messin with Mo-Mo.

I once saw Mo-Mo sprint over to the stands from first base - suck down 7 hot dogs - and sprint back to first base in 9 seconds.

Count them - 9 (nine) seconds.

Immediately thereafter - of course - the Mets signed him.