60 Yd. Question

PG uses the lazer or otherwise non hand held time -- others I've seen use hand held. PG runs on field as do others. PG gives one shot at it. others 2.

Hop your kid gets to run against a fast guy. My kid always runs better if he's got a kid that's up with him.

At the Perfect Game National Underclass Showcase in Ft. Myers, FL back in December, the runners were given a 2nd chance on the 60 to improve their times. There was a specific time set up on day two to run again if you wanted to.

Perfect Game does use laser timing, but we also use the stopwatch on every runner. If we get "big" discrepencies in the two times, we ask the player to run again.

Also we now try to set up the 60 on two different days. We have had some who run the 60 three or four times.

We found the video and suggestions offered on Rick Stephenson's Showcase DVD to be very helpful. http://www.showcasethemovie.com/

We were looking forward to laser timing at PG NJ indoor showcase last month. However, players were only given one run and stop watch timed. Have to say we were disappointed as this was a "main" reason for attending (accurate laser timing). Son has been stop watched at other showcases and college camps (by college head coaches) 4-5 times in last 6-8 months, all timings outside and some in damp/slipper conditions...all timings were within .2 range. At the indoor showcase, on turf, he was timed .25 seconds slower than his previous slowest recorded time. Needless to say, he was very disappointed when seeing this time in PG profile as he felt he ran his personal best in prime conditions after several speed and agility classes. It just seems odd to us as all timings were done by well respected baseball folks (human-error?). Needless to say, if we attend another PG event we will verify first that times will definitely be "laser" as advertised.

DevilDog,

Most indoor state camps don't run the 60 unless space provides for it. Then they are not often timed by laser.

If actual laser timing is important, I do recommend everyone check with our office ahead of time, just to be sure.

Please feel free to email me DevilDog, I feel bad about your son. We are most interested in helping young players whenever possible.
email - pgjerry@qwest.net

Thanks

Thanks PGStaff for your reply. This was our first PG event (after many invitations the last two years)...being right in our area it was a no-brainer. My son is a 2007. I by no means want to discredit your organization as I do respect the good reputation you've built over the years. After purchasing the Showcase dvd and the emphasis on the laser 60 yd. dash, we obviously thought the 60 time would be one of the main player grading criteria at a PG showcase (in this case, plenty of room in the heated dome). Perhaps to avoid confusion, non-laser timing should be noted in your state invitations in the future. Thanks again and we look forward to possibly attending a NE showcase in August.

Thanks for all the replys.

Just so I'm clear.....the 60 is run primarily on grass and with cleats?

I'm going to a PG showcase in Washington and am wondering how much the 60-times are considered in different decisions made by the scouts there?

A 60 time is like the theory of physics...it's all relative to the player, position and other tools.

If a player is an accomplished pitcher, then his time means nothing. If he can consistently rake the ball and is an accomplished offensive player, they'll find a spot for him somewhere even if he's a 7.5ver'. If he's a position player with avg. tools, then the 60 becomes a major factor.

I just talked to a former pro who said the rule of thumb for college and pros was <7.0 (give or take a .1 or .2) and you're fine. Anything more, then it starts becoming something they look at. This doesn't mean you can't play at the next level if you're at 7.4, however, there are a lot of great players who also have great speed, so time becomes a factor sometimes with a lot of good competition.

Unless the player consistently hits the ball 400 ft, the 7.4 position player, (at the high D1)
a) Will NOT be an Outfielder
b) Will NOT be a Middle Infielder.

In addition, the 7.0 position player is NOT going to play the OF (nor the middle) for many upper D1's. 6.8 is probably the low end.

There are simply too many 5'12" HS guys
that run 7.4 and will NOT be getting a sniff
at the next level (ie high D1 Conf).

A 60 time is a part of the tools one needs
to become a complete baseball player.
- Throw
- Hit
- Power
- Field
- Baserunning
Are other required tools.

Another difficult predictor is the HS player's forecast to hit as a college freshman at the high D-1. To predict correctly is an art (vs a science).

Of course predicting a college player to hit with wood is another art (vs science).

Regards

bear

Why not ? (to all of your statements)

This is my LIMITED observations of seeing the 60yrd tests run.

A. I have seen three invite only showcases, and at those showcases have seen approx. 225 kids run the 60. Out of those 225 kids approx 10 ran sub 7.0 60 times. The best time I saw was 6.75, and the dude was flying. At a recent one day camp that had 130 kids, mostly sophmores and juniors, not even one sub 7.0 60.

B. One of the coaches for my kids summer team is a Associate Scout for a Major League team. He has worked at many of the annual tryouts that the team puts on. In his estimation about 5% of the participants have run a sub 7.0 60. For the guys that due run sub 7.0's, lack of some tools will be overlooked in favor of the speed.

Here's another way to see my point. Go onto Perfect Games web site, and look up previous showcases that have profiles of the participants. Pick a showcase, and look at all the non-pitcher profiles. See how many are sub 7.0. I believe if you look at enough showcases you will see that sub 7.0 are not very common

JMHO

On the high end of Showcase events, the following link will show the numbers from last year's PG National held at Turner Field in Atlanta. (Scroll down to see 60 times by laser)

Note: 74 of the 127 players who ran the 60 at this event ran under 7.0

Obviously this is far from the norm as these are many of the very best prospects in the nation.

Here's the link - PG National Showcase

PGStaff is telling us that way over half of the "top" prospects in the nation ran <7.0 60, which would be expected, because these are the best of the best. However, this does not mean that the best of best who were over >7 will not make it to the next level, as I'm sure PGStaff will agree.

As Bear stated, if you're talking about the top elite D1 schools i.e. Miami, Texas, Rice, Florida, Fl. State, etc, etc, then those schools have the pick of the absolute best, therefore between two players with all tools equal, except one runs a 6.75 and one runs a 7.1...the 6.75 is probably signing with the top school.

With all of this said, there are MANY DI baseball programs across the country (even within small schools who are D1-AA in other sports) who have spots for good players, even those who run a >7 60.

One of Bear's favorite all-time Terps was a self admitted 7.2 60 guy who had a very successful career and was even called up to the Big Dance.

Agreed

In fact, without using names (you can find them if you search) here is where a few of those from the National, who did not run 7 flat or better, are signed to go to college.

Pos-College signed with
SS - Miami
OF - Cal State Fullerton
3B - Rice
C - Miami
SS - Auburn
1B - UCLA
C - LSU
OF - Louisville
C - Kentucky
C - North Carolina State
1B - Mississippi
OF - South Florida
1B - Georgia
SS - North Carolina
C - Alabama
C - Auburn
C - Arkansas
C - Georgia
C - Arizona State
3B - Alabama
SS - LSU
OF - Florida
C - Florida State
1B - South Carolina
1B - Alabama
3B - Boston College
C - Illinois
OF - Hawaii
C - Florida Atlantic
C - East Carolina
C - North Carolina

Note: Obviously all those above are very talented, but did not run 7 flat or better. It's not mandatory to be a fast runner to reach the top.

Thanks guys !!!

PGStaff, I didn’t see any H-1 times on your charts. Do you time your prospects for this?

I have read what most people consider a good 60 time, but what is considered a good home to first time from each side?

Bear:

I thought this discussion was about the 60, not a forum to lambaste individuals.

I spoke with a Chi Sox scout a few weeks back and was told that for the 60 yd dash, the everyday MLB average is around 6.8 and that there are plenty of 7 guys who are not pitchers. Here's a link that backs that up.
http://www.purebaseball.com/Editorial/Storvick/storvick110100.asp

Actually, from his account, he did get called up and the day when he arrived the GM who traded for him was fired and the deal was nixed with the new GM (he was sent back down), so technically he was traded and sent up, but you're correct, he never actually played....although he did say he saw the inside of the clubhouse....

Bear,

Not sure what you’re talking about regarding the individual that was NOT called up?

Generally I agree with what you’ve said about MIF and OFs, but there are many who don’t run average playing some of those positions at the top college programs in the country.

Once again, if you check the list of those who did not run 7.00 or better at the PG National last June… You will see the following who signed during the early period. They all had good tools, they just didn’t run 7 flat or better.
SS - Miami
SS – Auburn
SS - North Carolina
SS - LSU
OF - Cal State Fullerton
OF – Florida

6 pretty highly regarded baseball schools! Also, there aren’t any NO tools guys in the Big Leagues at any position ever, let alone having a 9 year career.

Speed is important, but other things can overcome lack of speed. Of course, I'm sure you already know that.

The next thing you going to want info on
is to calculate the probability of success of an average runner stealing a base while taking a 12-foot lead off first or a 27-foot lead off second against an average pitcher's delivery and catchers release times.

J - He actually played 12 years in the Bigs. Billy Ripken made this statement about himself to all the scouts in attendance at the MASA Banquet in Baltimore a couple of years ago. One of those backhanded complements if you know what I mean.

Heck, it only cost Mr. Kaufmann (in '69 dollars) $3/4 Million recurring costs to see if
there were athletes who were not scouted or that never played much baseball since the establishment, at the time, did not believe as he thought, that an athlete did not necessarily have to play baseball all his life in order to be a good (major league) baseball player. If he had excellent running speed (specifically run a 60 yd dash in less than 6.8 seconds), exceptional eyesight, fast reflexes, superb body balanced..... then go get him.

CB- Many believe the genes are just not there. Citing facts. If those facts stings, might be time for 'Intervention' to encourage he finish the degree (if we are referring to the right person). Obviously he lied to you about his big league experiences.

With respect to link, ...last heard the Mariners GM is sending Storvick back to P-Rim, since it appears there is excellent value to finding 'international' talent (and at < 1/2 mill)

Lastly, the area CHW scout is a F.T guy, and knows baseball and is probably not the same guy you spoke with. (Since the CHW Scout is up north most/all the time) your info probably came from either of the two local birds dogs. Keep in mind, each are learning what talent vs skill is (and may have not played the game!).