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I equate the steroid-era in baseball to the the Chicago Black Sox. These are dark days in baseball. Steroids and huge contracts have contributed to a public-relations nightmare of baseball as the sport of the greedy. And that's unfortunate because for the most part it is untrue: How many minor-leaguers struggle to pay their bills.. for "love of the game?"
Even the World Series received amazingly low ratings, although having the Rockies in the Series had something to do with that. Baseball has become a somewhat marginalized sport, at least in these parts less popular than basketball. That hurts. It is up to our kids, and us parents as the caretakers of this great sport, to help rebuild its credibility. One inning, one game, one season at a time.
Let's clean up the sport once and for all. Perhaps make it more equitable (more revenue-sharing for the small market clubs), and begin to sell the product to the inner-city market we lost years ago.
Even the World Series received amazingly low ratings, although having the Rockies in the Series had something to do with that. Baseball has become a somewhat marginalized sport, at least in these parts less popular than basketball. That hurts. It is up to our kids, and us parents as the caretakers of this great sport, to help rebuild its credibility. One inning, one game, one season at a time.
Let's clean up the sport once and for all. Perhaps make it more equitable (more revenue-sharing for the small market clubs), and begin to sell the product to the inner-city market we lost years ago.
Bum is on to something. The Black Sox scandal threatened to ruin baseball. However, a young slugger named Babe Ruth came along and wowed the fans with mammouth home runs, effectively saving baseball and eventually placing it above all other sports.
In 1994, fans were sick of baseball, culminating with the strike. It was the home run - again - that saved baseball. This time, hoever, the home runs were not being launched by a lovable rogue with an open heart and open flaws that many related to in that era. These home runs were being hit by millionaires jacked up on designer steroids. The owners knew it and let it happen, keeping tunnel vision on the revenues pouring in.
Ruth proved that baseball fans love the long ball. Owners of today exploited that fact all the way to the bank.
In 1994, fans were sick of baseball, culminating with the strike. It was the home run - again - that saved baseball. This time, hoever, the home runs were not being launched by a lovable rogue with an open heart and open flaws that many related to in that era. These home runs were being hit by millionaires jacked up on designer steroids. The owners knew it and let it happen, keeping tunnel vision on the revenues pouring in.
Ruth proved that baseball fans love the long ball. Owners of today exploited that fact all the way to the bank.
Bud is the problem!MLB will remain a Bush league
until an independent commissioner/non owner is
named.Who will be the new Kennesaw Mountain
Landis?
until an independent commissioner/non owner is
named.Who will be the new Kennesaw Mountain
Landis?
quote:Originally posted by ECTBDAD:
Bud is the problem!MLB will remain a Bush league
until an independent commissioner/non owner is
named.Who will be the new Kennesaw Mountain
Landis?
They only need to look to the NFL for the best business model.
Let me just throw this out there. Could it be that they dont believe in their product? They dont believe that "pure" baseball can compete with the other major sports?
Pro football became very popular. The AFL and NFL merged. Fans were coming out in droves. The rise of the NBA and the glory days of it.
They lower the mound to get more runs scored. They bring in the fences. The bring in the DH in the AL. They turn their back on the steroid issue because the long ball sells. Im more and more convinced now that the baseball is or has been juiced as well.
In their attempt to make baseball sell in anyway possible they threaten the integrity of the game. Then they turn and try to make scapegoats out of the very superstars they created. In otherwords its not our fault.
Just some thoughts. The casual fan goes to games to see 11-10 slugfest with multiple HR's. The pure baseball fan goes to see Pitching , Defense , Strategy , Moving runners and clutch hitting. The fact is there are way more casual fans. These folks buy tickets. They love the circus like atmosphere , fireworks after every home run , sumo wrestlers between innings etc etc.
They knew they had a huge problem. But the seats were full of fans. I used to love seeing the pitchers duels and the pure game. JMO
Pro football became very popular. The AFL and NFL merged. Fans were coming out in droves. The rise of the NBA and the glory days of it.
They lower the mound to get more runs scored. They bring in the fences. The bring in the DH in the AL. They turn their back on the steroid issue because the long ball sells. Im more and more convinced now that the baseball is or has been juiced as well.
In their attempt to make baseball sell in anyway possible they threaten the integrity of the game. Then they turn and try to make scapegoats out of the very superstars they created. In otherwords its not our fault.
Just some thoughts. The casual fan goes to games to see 11-10 slugfest with multiple HR's. The pure baseball fan goes to see Pitching , Defense , Strategy , Moving runners and clutch hitting. The fact is there are way more casual fans. These folks buy tickets. They love the circus like atmosphere , fireworks after every home run , sumo wrestlers between innings etc etc.
They knew they had a huge problem. But the seats were full of fans. I used to love seeing the pitchers duels and the pure game. JMO
I don't think a commissioner who isn't closely affiliated with the owners will ever happen. The owners elect the commssioner, and thus will always choose a commish who will side with them. If there is one group of people associated with baseball that loves Selig, it's the 30 owners. I think the idea of an independent commissioner, while possibly the best thing for MLB, may never be seen again.
The fact that a second baseman named Boone once hit 50 home runs in a season was enough for me to believe that the ball was juiced and that so were some of the players.
It is not just baseball; it is part of the contemporary American culture.
If a young women die's her hair blond and has breast implants gets a promotion or a rich husband we accept this as OK. Yet what is the real difference between a man using every means available to enhance his career. I don't see it.
It is our culture. We spend hour’s fascinated with the celebrity of young women in show biz. Yet, if we "criminalize" men that have used artificial means to enhance their abilities. Yet it is what we asked for, it is what we want.
Where is the media in when women aspire to be like Britney, Paris, etc. Why does the American population revere the pretty women that are as fake as a baseball player that used "performance enhancements."
Yet every day we tell the American male, can't get it up, use "viagra - the ultimate performance enhancing drug."
Let's all be honest. We celebrate performance, good looks, a pretty girl. Let it be, put it behind us and move on. We created the problem, let's not be hypocrites. Rules have been changed, we have created moral indignation, realize it as what it was a period in the history of the game which has a history of "having the rules bent."
If a young women die's her hair blond and has breast implants gets a promotion or a rich husband we accept this as OK. Yet what is the real difference between a man using every means available to enhance his career. I don't see it.
It is our culture. We spend hour’s fascinated with the celebrity of young women in show biz. Yet, if we "criminalize" men that have used artificial means to enhance their abilities. Yet it is what we asked for, it is what we want.
Where is the media in when women aspire to be like Britney, Paris, etc. Why does the American population revere the pretty women that are as fake as a baseball player that used "performance enhancements."
Yet every day we tell the American male, can't get it up, use "viagra - the ultimate performance enhancing drug."
Let's all be honest. We celebrate performance, good looks, a pretty girl. Let it be, put it behind us and move on. We created the problem, let's not be hypocrites. Rules have been changed, we have created moral indignation, realize it as what it was a period in the history of the game which has a history of "having the rules bent."
I think you're right on, Coach May.
Football has its PED questions as well, the NBA keeps making scoring easier as the players get ever taller. Americans like scoring, and the casual fan is not interested in the process --- a big reason footie doesn't generate much interest in this country.
Ask around this website --- fans of the game --- what everyone's favorite baseball moment (not related to son's performance) is, and I would bet the answers would be a range of well executed hit-and-run or DP, a triple, great pickoff, killer curve for the K, diving catch, close play, hr robbed, clutch hit, squeeze....and hr. Ask on many MLB fan forums, and you'll get primarily hr.
On the few MLB boards I visit, they may detest Bonds, but they don't all detest PEDs as their use isn't personal as it is here.
But it's not just the casual fans. Remember Manny 'celebrating' his hr even though the Sox were still down by 4? Our Pujols has missed out on MVP repeatedly because Bonds hits hr's. Missed it in 2006 as well to Howard who trailed Pujols in every stat but HR & RBI. Pujols had a higher slugging percentage, more runs scored, hit over 60 points higher than his average with RISP (Howard hit nearly 60 points lower), Pujols struck out 50 times all season while Howard struck out 181 times (that would be an additional 5 games worth of outs), Pujols was the definition of clutch with RISP and 2 outs, hitting .435, almost 100 points above average; Howard hit .247 (66 points below average).
Oddly enough, it's not just because I'm a Cardinal fan that this still grates on me. It's because I'm a baseball fan. That vote showed me the writers who cover the game have no bloody clue about what makes a player valuable. If they don't understand and love the game, they won't be educating any fans or advertising the poetry and symmetry of the game any time soon. And don't even get me started on ESPN.
We can only hope that Bonds' indictment and the resultant spotlight on PEDs will diminish the importance of the Sham HR. Wonder what odds Las Vegas is giving on that idea.
Hey, those casual fans will still show up for the sumo wrestlers and t-shirt guns
Football has its PED questions as well, the NBA keeps making scoring easier as the players get ever taller. Americans like scoring, and the casual fan is not interested in the process --- a big reason footie doesn't generate much interest in this country.
Ask around this website --- fans of the game --- what everyone's favorite baseball moment (not related to son's performance) is, and I would bet the answers would be a range of well executed hit-and-run or DP, a triple, great pickoff, killer curve for the K, diving catch, close play, hr robbed, clutch hit, squeeze....and hr. Ask on many MLB fan forums, and you'll get primarily hr.
On the few MLB boards I visit, they may detest Bonds, but they don't all detest PEDs as their use isn't personal as it is here.
But it's not just the casual fans. Remember Manny 'celebrating' his hr even though the Sox were still down by 4? Our Pujols has missed out on MVP repeatedly because Bonds hits hr's. Missed it in 2006 as well to Howard who trailed Pujols in every stat but HR & RBI. Pujols had a higher slugging percentage, more runs scored, hit over 60 points higher than his average with RISP (Howard hit nearly 60 points lower), Pujols struck out 50 times all season while Howard struck out 181 times (that would be an additional 5 games worth of outs), Pujols was the definition of clutch with RISP and 2 outs, hitting .435, almost 100 points above average; Howard hit .247 (66 points below average).
Oddly enough, it's not just because I'm a Cardinal fan that this still grates on me. It's because I'm a baseball fan. That vote showed me the writers who cover the game have no bloody clue about what makes a player valuable. If they don't understand and love the game, they won't be educating any fans or advertising the poetry and symmetry of the game any time soon. And don't even get me started on ESPN.
We can only hope that Bonds' indictment and the resultant spotlight on PEDs will diminish the importance of the Sham HR. Wonder what odds Las Vegas is giving on that idea.
Hey, those casual fans will still show up for the sumo wrestlers and t-shirt guns
IMHO, if it weren't for Jose Canseco, steroids would be just as prevalent now as they were in the 90s. I can't think of any other incident that resulted in the exposure. MLB and the commisioner would be just fine with them if they hadn't been caught. They continue to look exclusively for the "big" guy even now. That's a mindset that evolved over 20 years that wasn't there previously.
quote:Originally posted by ILVBB:Yet every day we tell the American male, can't get it up, use "viagra - the ultimate performance enhancing drug.""
Well, at least he didn't cork his bat.
But hey, who am I to talk? I have my own performance enhancers.
Nice post, Coach May. Agree 100%. It's why I actually prefer a minor-league or college game over a MLB game. 
When the game switched from the Ty Cobb to the Babe Ruth era and they were winding the ball tighter, do you think fans lamented a loss of the "pure" game then? How about when baseball transformed from station to station to the running game of the Jackie Robinson era? Did that again dilute the pureness of the game. There have been dozens of changes to the game, from no outfield fences to short porches.
I understand your concept of the "pure" game, and even agree with the appreciation, however using terminology like that is elitist and I don't understand the need for it. If it is pure, then the other must be what, unclean? Diluted? Impure?
Baseball doesn't do everything right or everything wrong. Lumping things like the DH in with steriods is like mixing corn flakes and cement. The two subjects aren't close to each other. If you want to be a purist, how far back do we get to go? Do we get to bring the spitball back?
In short, you didn't love the "pure" game, because you aren't old enough to possibly have seen one. You love the game of your youth, which is understandable, but we can't go back.
And just an FYI, for those practicing revisionist history, Kennesaw Mountain Landis was an egomaniacal, overbearing, racist pig, who was considered one of the worst judges of his era, having an unprecedented number of cases overturned on appeal. The owners chose him because he knew a bit about baseball and there is some speculation that it was a mutual backscratch with owners because he had sat on the issue of the baseball reserve clause and MLB anit-trust rather than make a ruling. It stands to reason that using an ex-judge familiar with the argument could help the owners maintain the status quo with favorable judicial rulings.
I understand your concept of the "pure" game, and even agree with the appreciation, however using terminology like that is elitist and I don't understand the need for it. If it is pure, then the other must be what, unclean? Diluted? Impure?
Baseball doesn't do everything right or everything wrong. Lumping things like the DH in with steriods is like mixing corn flakes and cement. The two subjects aren't close to each other. If you want to be a purist, how far back do we get to go? Do we get to bring the spitball back?
In short, you didn't love the "pure" game, because you aren't old enough to possibly have seen one. You love the game of your youth, which is understandable, but we can't go back.
And just an FYI, for those practicing revisionist history, Kennesaw Mountain Landis was an egomaniacal, overbearing, racist pig, who was considered one of the worst judges of his era, having an unprecedented number of cases overturned on appeal. The owners chose him because he knew a bit about baseball and there is some speculation that it was a mutual backscratch with owners because he had sat on the issue of the baseball reserve clause and MLB anit-trust rather than make a ruling. It stands to reason that using an ex-judge familiar with the argument could help the owners maintain the status quo with favorable judicial rulings.
quote:Originally posted by CPLZ:
And just an FYI, for those practicing revisionist history, Kennesaw Mountain Landis was an egomaniacal, overbearing, racist pig, who was considered one of the worst judges of his era, having an unprecedented number of cases overturned on appeal. The owners chose him because he knew a bit about baseball and there is some speculation that it was a mutual backscratch with owners because he had sat on the issue of the baseball reserve clause and MLB anit-trust rather than make a ruling. It stands to reason that using an ex-judge familiar with the argument could help the owners maintain the status quo with favorable judicial rulings.
CPLZ it is true Kenesaw Mt.Landis was a racist,egomaniac & overbearing,but he had absolute rule and banned
any player even rumored to be a cheater(the blacksox were not the only cheaters)not a nice guy for sure,but
he brought integrity back to the diamond.Baseball could use an impartial non fan/player /owner to rid the
game of cheaters.My 2 cents
The one thing I'll say is, better late than never.
Let's face it, hitters weren't the only ones juicing up. Anyone else notice that all the 98-100 mph fastballs seem to have disappeared since they started testing for steroids? And so many of those who did throw that hard have hit a run of ligament/tendon problems? I was reading Baseball America's rundown on each organization's top prospects and couldn't help but notice how suddenly, a kid throwing 90-93 is again being considered a really hard thrower.
You want controversy? I think Roger Clemens used steroids. Let's see if they ever blow the roof off THAT one.
A friend made this point to me and I couldn't agree more: With our sons getting into college ball now and maybe some day in the pros, we are so grateful that the culture of steroids/HGH etc. is dying now. We hope they drive a stake through its heart. For the past 10-15 years, a player couldn't help but get the message that if he didn't do these drugs he would be at a competitive disadvantage, whether he was Bonds trying to hit Clemens, or whether he was a $14,000/yr. minor leaguer trying to break through to the big money of MLB.
Now, we can hope that our sons will not find themselves surrounded by apologists for this behavior, or by peer pressure to do it themselves. If they take the high road, they can hope they are still on a level playing field as they compete for playing time or for greater opportunities.
I don't mean to be naive, but with testing underway and hopefully to be improved in coming years, I hope we're heading into a time when even those who would consider cheating won't, if only for fear of getting caught.
Let's face it, hitters weren't the only ones juicing up. Anyone else notice that all the 98-100 mph fastballs seem to have disappeared since they started testing for steroids? And so many of those who did throw that hard have hit a run of ligament/tendon problems? I was reading Baseball America's rundown on each organization's top prospects and couldn't help but notice how suddenly, a kid throwing 90-93 is again being considered a really hard thrower.
You want controversy? I think Roger Clemens used steroids. Let's see if they ever blow the roof off THAT one.
A friend made this point to me and I couldn't agree more: With our sons getting into college ball now and maybe some day in the pros, we are so grateful that the culture of steroids/HGH etc. is dying now. We hope they drive a stake through its heart. For the past 10-15 years, a player couldn't help but get the message that if he didn't do these drugs he would be at a competitive disadvantage, whether he was Bonds trying to hit Clemens, or whether he was a $14,000/yr. minor leaguer trying to break through to the big money of MLB.
Now, we can hope that our sons will not find themselves surrounded by apologists for this behavior, or by peer pressure to do it themselves. If they take the high road, they can hope they are still on a level playing field as they compete for playing time or for greater opportunities.
I don't mean to be naive, but with testing underway and hopefully to be improved in coming years, I hope we're heading into a time when even those who would consider cheating won't, if only for fear of getting caught.
Putting word(s) in quotation marks, when used properly, means either a direct quotation (obviously not in this case) or word(s) used in an ironic sense. IMO, Coach May used "pure" as shorthand for non-PED-enhanced-baseball (excuse the redundancy).
Pure baseball would be both in the eye of the beholder (there may be AL fans out there who don't regard the DH as an abomination) and within the context of the time it was being played. I doubt many people felt that pre-Jackie Robinson baseball was impure at the time, for example; if they did, the game would have been integrated long before.
Ignoring PEDs is another in a line of tailoring the game to the masses (woo-hoo, HR races). MLB (encompassing the owners and the PU) just didn't take account at how this might turn around and bite them in their collective.
Pure baseball would be both in the eye of the beholder (there may be AL fans out there who don't regard the DH as an abomination
) and within the context of the time it was being played. I doubt many people felt that pre-Jackie Robinson baseball was impure at the time, for example; if they did, the game would have been integrated long before.Ignoring PEDs is another in a line of tailoring the game to the masses (woo-hoo, HR races). MLB (encompassing the owners and the PU) just didn't take account at how this might turn around and bite them in their collective.
Midlo
With Thanksgiving a few days away; how do you think that turkey got so big? I know it spent alot of time in the gym.
Yet you won't think twice about the turkey, you have come to expect it.
Yet you won't think twice about the turkey, you have come to expect it.
I just hope my son doesn't end up doing Viagra ads, like Palmiero did ....
They say that's another side effect of steroid use.
I'm not in a hurry to have grandkids, but I am sure they would be wonderful to have SOMEday!
They say that's another side effect of steroid use.
I'm not in a hurry to have grandkids, but I am sure they would be wonderful to have SOMEday!
Midlo thank you. I have been saying that same thing to my close friends for years.
quote:Originally posted by ECTBDAD:
Baseball could use an impartial non fan/player /owner to rid the
game of cheaters.My 2 cents
After kicking this around a bit (yup, I'm that slow
), the thing that made Landis fearless, was a lifetime contract. I understand that we couldn't do the same in todays environment, but couldn't we get the same result with a 10 year, irrevocable and unrenewable contract? With enough dough, and the understanding that there is no way he keeps the job at the end of the term, all politics go out the window and he is free to legislate altruistically.
Something about "absolute power corrupts absolutely" comes to mind ....
How about Colin Powell for commisioner
How about Kevin Costner. His baseball background (in Hollywood) is unmatched and, unlike Bud Selig, the ultimate flunky, he can ACT like a commissioner.
My vote is Rudy Guiliani, if the presidential bid doesn't work out. I'm serious. If he can clean up N.Y., he can clean up baseball.
And who says he cleaned up NYC?
The reviews on Guiliani always have been mixed as to whether he cleaned New York City up or not. Prior to 9/11, remember that he wasn't very popular.
You can walk around Times Square and 42nd Street without running into prostitutes and drug dealers on every corner. 42nd Street was infamous, that has changed dramatically. Although Guliani has not been mayor for some time so it is possible that the trend has reversed.
He was a tough prosecuting attorney that had a lot of enemies.
He was a tough prosecuting attorney that had a lot of enemies.
Guiliani would be the answer to a trivia question if not for 9/11 (remember how he was regarded prior to the attack?). Having been mayor then, however things were handled, doesn't (IMO) qualify him for either proposed job.
He's 73 and that could be an issue, but I'd propose Bill White. Player, broadcaster, and League President resume.
He's 73 and that could be an issue, but I'd propose Bill White. Player, broadcaster, and League President resume.
Guiliani made his fame with 9/11---he did what I felt was a great job--
Floridafan
when was the last time you were in Times Square?
Floridafan
when was the last time you were in Times Square?
George W Bush had wanted to be baseball commish
I like the Powell suggestion, although that would be pretty far beneath him and I doubt he'd have interest.
But someone of that ilk, no former MLB ties, unquestionable character, resolute values, proven leaders...there are people of that caliber out there...
But someone of that ilk, no former MLB ties, unquestionable character, resolute values, proven leaders...there are people of that caliber out there...
Before Bud Selig got the job, I remember a lot of folks pushing the name of Bob Costas. Of course he has a long record as a baseball lover, and he has authored at least one significant book on baseball.
Whether he would rule with an iron fist is another matter. Being a "talking head" and being an administrator are two different skill sets.
Whether he would rule with an iron fist is another matter. Being a "talking head" and being an administrator are two different skill sets.
Peter Ueberoth did a good job even if he didn't stay long. He didn't take sides. He got in the middle, kicked both side's tails and got them to meet in the middle.
I think Robert A. Bowman would be a great choice for baseball.
He loves the game - he is a successful businessman - he has several years of experience as President of MLB media - and he wont back down to anyone.
He is the man IMO.
As for Guiliani - you cant really be taken seriously unless you - and your family - lived in NY City before Rudy came in. It was a cesspool.
Rudy cleaned up NY City unlike anyone that ever came before him. He accomplished things that noone even dared try to accomplish - no less be successful at it.
Lots of whining and wailing from the usual crews, criminals and politicos in NY City - but he just overwhelmed them - and made NY - once again - a great place to be.
He loves the game - he is a successful businessman - he has several years of experience as President of MLB media - and he wont back down to anyone.
He is the man IMO.
As for Guiliani - you cant really be taken seriously unless you - and your family - lived in NY City before Rudy came in. It was a cesspool.
Rudy cleaned up NY City unlike anyone that ever came before him. He accomplished things that noone even dared try to accomplish - no less be successful at it.
Lots of whining and wailing from the usual crews, criminals and politicos in NY City - but he just overwhelmed them - and made NY - once again - a great place to be.