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8.06 "Coach visits to the mound"

deadballdeadballMember
8.06(b) A second trip to the same pitcher in the same inning will cause this pitcher’s automatic removal;

Question: Removal from the game, or removal from the mound meaning he can still play at other positions.

The question is what does the word "removal" actually mean.

Thanks in advance for your responces.
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F 3FingeredGlove1,000+ posts
Some rules in OBR, like this one, are best suited to professional ball.

In professional ball, this rule is interpreted to mean that the pitcher is to be removed from the game.
The Major League Baseball Umpire Manual 7.12:
A second trip to the mound to the same pitcher in the same inning by a manager or coach will cause the pitcher's removal from the game. The bolding of "from the game" is in the text of the MLBUM.

Jaksa/Roder devote section 19 to pitcher substitution rules, and they too say the pitcher must leave the game. They also cross reference rule 3.03 Comment.

Of course, this situation is unlikely to be an issue in pro ball, especially where the OBR designated hitter rule is in effect. Most non-pro baseball rule sets have a different approach to substitutions.
JMoffJMoff1,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by baseball17:
So, in pro ball, in the very rare, but sometimes seen in the NL, occurrence when a pitcher is placed in an OF position for one batter, while a "specialist" is brought in to face a particular batter(s), that must occur on the first visit to the mound for him to remain in the game, and return to the mound after one or more batters?


I would assume this could be handled like a double switch, where the manager approaches the HU with the change instead of going to the mound first. That way he makes a change without making a visit to the mound.

Slightly off topic question. I was watching a MLB game a few days ago. Pitcher shows signs of an injury, manager properly asks the HU if he can go talk to him. Routine visit, "Are you OK?" "Yes", end of story.

It got me wondering when do you charge a visit? What has to be said to change this from a check on health to a 'visit'?
M Matt1310,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by JMoff:
It got me wondering when do you charge a visit? What has to be said to change this from a check on health to a 'visit'?


I think you answered your own question. When there's a health check, PU goes out to listen. If the conversation turns to anything involving strategy or the like, it's charged.
JMoffJMoff1,000+ posts
In my simple example, it was pretty straight forward. What if it changes to,
Coach: "Are you OK?"
Pitcher: "I tweaked my groin, things been bothering me for the last few starts"
Delay while they try and figure it out, throw a couple of pitches, etc.
Coach: "Well, can you go?"
Pitcher: "Yeah"
Coach: "Are you sure you're going to be able to throw the slider down in and to the next hitter, that pitch is tough on your groin..."

Again, I'm totally making this example up. When I coached, I never abused an injury trip, so I don't know if it ever happens in real life, just curious what you guys have experienced (it's been slow here lately).

Closest I ever came was a 12U kid getting rocked. After about seven line drives over the first few innings, he kind of walks around the mound, hangs his head and makes a decision, grabs his elbow and pretty obviously decides he doesn't want to pitch anymore. I go to HU, we walk out. Kid hands me the ball and says he's done and runs off, not saying anything even though I yell, "is your elbow OK?" as he runs to the dugout.

I turn to HU and tell him I've got nobody warmed up. That kid obviously just quit, we both know it. I can run a kid out here with no warm ups and risk another injury or you can give us the benefit of the doubt and give him some time to warm up. He winks and says two wrongs don't make a right.

Nobody was hurt that day, which is a good thing.
M Matt1310,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by JMoff:
In my simple example, it was pretty straight forward. What if it changes to,
Coach: "Are you OK?"
Pitcher: "I tweaked my groin, things been bothering me for the last few starts"
Delay while they try and figure it out, throw a couple of pitches, etc.
Coach: "Well, can you go?"
Pitcher: "Yeah"
Coach: "Are you sure you're going to be able to throw the slider down in and to the next hitter, that pitch is tough on your groin..."

Again, I'm totally making this example up. When I coached, I never abused an injury trip, so I don't know if it ever happens in real life, just curious what you guys have experienced (it's been slow here lately).

Closest I ever came was a 12U kid getting rocked. After about seven line drives over the first few innings, he kind of walks around the mound, hangs his head and makes a decision, grabs his elbow and pretty obviously decides he doesn't want to pitch anymore. I go to HU, we walk out. Kid hands me the ball and says he's done and runs off, not saying anything even though I yell, "is your elbow OK?" as he runs to the dugout.

I turn to HU and tell him I've got nobody warmed up. That kid obviously just quit, we both know it. I can run a kid out here with no warm ups and risk another injury or you can give us the benefit of the doubt and give him some time to warm up. He winks and says two wrongs don't make a right.

Nobody was hurt that day, which is a good thing.


Two parts to your story:

Coach makes a backhanded comment combining health and strategy: "So, Bill, is he in or out?"

Secondly, there is no absolute limit on warm-ups during a substitution--if the replacement exceeds the limit, the former pitcher cannot come back in. In your case, I don't think the original pitcher was coming back in that game (or ever again, depending on your mood.)
JMoffJMoff1,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by Matt13:

Secondly, there is no absolute limit on warm-ups during a substitution--if the replacement exceeds the limit, the former pitcher cannot come back in. In your case, I don't think the original pitcher was coming back in that game (or ever again, depending on your mood.)


I went with never again, since this was not the only such occurance, even though he miraculously recovered a few hours later...

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