A dose of reality.....

I have become familiar with two JUCOs this year. I was surprised to see how many 4 year transfers are on each roster. Some leave the 4 year schools do to playing time and others due to grades. I don't have any idea of the % but it is fairly common.

It seems that some young men are not ready to handle living on their own and making responsible decisions while attending school and playing baseball.

IMO the lure to play D1 baseball is sometimes too attractive to pass up. Even the average student with a 2.5 to 3.0 high school GPA can struggle at a 4 year school living on their own for the first time (or a JUCO) while playing baseball. The better option might have been a local JUCO to begin with, but playing at a D1 was the goal and the opportunity was given so it's taken.

The sad part is when a player with talent to play college baseball doesn't paly because he doesn't "get it" in time to salvage his baseball journey. Taking a step back to steady the ship is not a bad thing most times.

I have a son who played at a top 25 program. I will repeat again what I learned from this, the D1 experience isn't for everyone. Partly due to the above post.

Definetly, it's great to get an opportunity to a big program, make 100% sure that you understand what that would entail.

Flying Dutchman,

Agree 100%. This was one of the starkest realities for my wife and I this Spring. We've been checking up on former travel teammates, high school teammates, and players we are familiar with in our area. It is unbelievable how baseball life can change so quickly.

For us, it goes back to our orginial goal statement while being recruited. My son clearly understood he does not have all the physical tools to become a professional pitcher. He is 6'1" 185lbs has 3-4 pitches, but he gets people out with his brain. There is no pretense whatsoever that he will earn a living playing baseball. My son ONLY wanted to play college baseball IF he had an opportunity to actually get on the field. If we could do it all over again, we'd stick to this strategy.

quote:

Flying Dutchman said....I've seen a lot of conversation recently on some of the state threads about disgruntled freshman players, especially at some of the larger D-1 schools.

I know many disgruntled people like this. They are not used to riding the pine, not being the star, and not used to being patient. They are now seeing talented people in front of them waiting for their opportunity. It is a tough situation as I think most of these players have the dream of going pro. Some are sticking to their decision and others will be moving on or already have moved on. I hope it works out for them.

Yes Dutchman, that do your homework is a very sophomoric attitude. The coach is not going to tell you he has 5 other recruits that are every bit as good as you but he does.
There are a zillion unknowns out there, especially for position players. If a pitcher hits 92 on the gun guess what, he's going to get every opportunity in the world.

A position player not only has to beat out guys at his position he has to beat out the backup shortstops if you get my drift... A lot of time with pos. Players it's such a close call it's just something about a player a coach really likes that gets him into the lineup and since they're all good players they usually stay in the lineup... Just my ramblings

It has been our experience that as a position player the key is to learn to hit and learn to hit with power. If you can do this a spot will open up for you in the lineup.

Some folks are mistaken as to what it takes to learn to hit for power. A player does not need to be 6'2"+ and 200+ pounds to hit for power.

Batspeed, Batspeed, Batspeed. Learn an efficient swingpath with your hands and synconize your lower half for power and you will get plenty of extra base hits and RBI's.

There are plenty of players that weigh in at 170 and are 5'10" or less that hit with power.

Strikeouts and trying to beat out infield hits as well as lazy flies will find you on the pine.

Defense is important, but only after you prove you can hit.

It's a business.. Players/parents need to know what's going on when getting in to this.

quote:

Originally posted by Flying Dutchman:
I've seen a lot of conversation recently on some of the state threads about disgruntled freshman players, especially at some of the larger D-1 schools.
From what I've read here it takes a certain talent/toughness both mentally and physically to compete and endure the rigors on and off the field at a high level program and apparently that DNA is hard to come by.

It is sad to see these events, but it's a smack in the face about the reality of college baseball.
The reality of college baseball? There are 25 teams in the top 25, there are hundreds of teams at all levels that comprise the actual reality of college baseball IMHO. This site, and for that matter, this country is chocked full of parents who's kids play at that "un-elitist" level and IMHO that is the reality league and true pulse of college baseball. The media, ie BA, are the ones that ingrain the notion college baseball reality is based on the happenings of the elitist teams, I would tend to disagree

It is HIGHLY COMPETITIVE and it IS a business - livelihoods depend on the "W".
See above

Looking back, some of the best advice we ever received was to look at schools were my son could contribute and play, regardless of the level.
while at the same time fulfilling the academic reasons for going to college

You hear the term "do your homework" but even so, there are too many uncontrollable variables: coaching changes, personality changes, injuries, academic pressures, character changes, inability to adapt to college life successfully etc... A lot of unexpected change can occur from year to year.
Again . The old cliche "shet happens" fits this nicely. I tend to migrate to the "don't bring me problems, bring me solutions" mentality. Those are the life lessons that almost all of our kids will carry on through life, not an MLB paycheck.

I sure would be interested to see the percentage of players that remain with and graduate from the college they entered as freshman, exclusive of players drafted. Maybe it would be higher than I think?
That would be interesting but IMO you will see a significant % of students without the athletic tangible that do not finish at the school they started at. Then again I can't back that opinion up with data, just observations from working at, and managing student employees at a public institution for 28 years.

.
There is no magic formula for success...you do your homework...you hold up your end...but stuff does indeed happen...in our journey we found that power, lefthandedness, height, academics, coaches, ERA, SLG%, work ethic, attitude, team play...were no guarantee, ever...The fates always have something to say..

I actually believe that one of the biggest and least appreciated skills is an ability to adapt and grow and grind as a competitor and a player...regardless of situation, of current playing time....It is pretty easy to work hard and have the confidence to overcome when you have a been a big fish in a small pond for your whole life, but stepping onto a college field is a different animal altogether...everybody can play, everybody was a superstar somewhere...everybody has had smoke blown up their backside by the coaches in recruiting...everybody believes they are the one. The question is how long do you hold on emotionally, mentally, not being a superstar and keep plugging...when for the first time in your life you are really stuggling on the field and off? Can you overcome?

Have said this before, if not now when? Your son's may face this challenge moving from high school to college, or collge to the minors, or in the job world...but they will...the higher they get the more certainly they will. The sooner they learn to assess, adapt and grind quietly...the quicker they can make any reality work for them...even the challenging ones.


.

quote:

I actually believe that one of the biggest and least appreciated skills is an ability to adapt and grow and grind as a competitor and a player...regardless of situation, of current playing time....It is pretty easy to work hard and have the confidence to overcome when you have a been a big fish in a small pond for your whole life, but stepping onto a college field is a different animal altogether...everybody can play, everybody was a superstar somewhere...everybody has had smoke blown up their backside by the coaches in recruiting...everybody believes they are the one. The question is how long do you hold on emotionally, mentally, not being a superstar and keep plugging...when for the first time in your life you are really stuggling on the field and off? Can you overcome?

O'44, your comments are an amazingly accurate description of the mental transition that challenges players at every step once they are beyond HS.
Whether the challenge is college baseball, Milb, or college then Milb, those mental challenges are the one constant. They can, frankly, in our experience, exhilarate some and move/motivate them to higher levels while proving to deflate others to a point of being stopped and ineffective.
And the challenges change from year to year. The number of sophomores who step up and truly excel is probably about the same as the number who didn't fully appreciate there would be a freshman coming in to challenge them for innings, or that better players from JC's would be recruited in behind them.
I have often thought that while most players are so much better off with college as their choice coming out of HS, the ideal might be to have one year of Milb as a tutorial or internship, and then return to college.
Milb truly is a learning experience as player, but playing a full season of Milb is even more important in terms of appreciating and managing the mental aspects of being a baseball player, getting better, understanding what is expected of you and doing what is needed to meet and exceed those expectations, all combined with succeeding against the highest level of competition even within your own organization.

quote:

Originally posted by infielddad:
I have often thought that while most players are so much better off with college as their choice coming out of HS, the ideal might be to have one year of Milb as a tutorial or internship, and then return to college.
Milb truly is a learning experience as player, but playing a full season of Milb is even more important in terms of appreciating and managing the mental aspects of being a baseball, getting better, understanding what is expected of you and doing what is needed to meet and exceed those expectations, all combined with succeeding against the highest level of competition even within your own organization.

B,

I definitely see the direction you are going with this and from a baseball perspective agree to a point. However, do you think that most players who "lived" the MiLB life for a year could go back and adjust to college life/rules both on and off the field? I tend to look at MiLB life as an apprenticeship to their life long job career whatever that may be.

Then again being a lefty from the North, tagged a hick by a poster, I tend to read the page from right to left.

rz1,
Great question.
My tendency is to think that if there were a Milb college internship in baseball,most players would find out if they have the passion and mental discipline to want to play and do whatever it takes.
My guess is a considerable number would find baseball isn't for them. Whether they would return to college, "free of baseball" is a dilemma. I think most would.
Those who found baseball really is a "passion," during that internship, would go to college even more motivated and better equipped, mentally, to manage in the classroom and on the field, in my view.
Of course this will never happen so I cannot be proven wrong, can I?

quote:

Originally posted by floridafan:
It has been our experience that as a position player the key is to learn to hit and learn to hit with power. If you can do this a spot will open up for you in the lineup.

Some folks are mistaken as to what it takes to learn to hit for power. A player does not need to be 6'2"+ and 200+ pounds to hit for power.

Batspeed, Batspeed, Batspeed. Learn an efficient swingpath with your hands and synconize your lower half for power and you will get plenty of extra base hits and RBI's.

There are plenty of players that weigh in at 170 and are 5'10" or less that hit with power.

Strikeouts and trying to beat out infield hits as well as lazy flies will find you on the pine.

Defense is important, but only after you prove you can hit.

Amen brother! I preach this to players at all levels every day!

quote:

The question is how long do you hold on emotionally, mentally, not being a superstar and keep plugging...when for the first time in your life you are really stuggling on the field and off? Can you overcome?

Have said this before, if not now when? Your son's may face this challenge moving from high school to college, or collge to the minors, or in the job world...but they will...the higher they get the more certainly they will. The sooner they learn to assess, adapt and grind quietly...the quicker they can make any reality work for them...even the challenging ones.

quote:

My tendency is to think that if there were a Milb college internship in baseball,most players would find out if they have the passion and mental discipline to want to play and do whatever it takes.
My guess is a considerable number would find baseball isn't for them. Whether they would return to college, "free of baseball" is a dilemma. I think most would.
Those who found baseball really is a "passion," during that internship, would go to college even more motivated and better equipped, mentally, to manage in the classroom and on the field, in my view.

Great insight, and great points.

quote:

Originally posted by Flying Dutchman:
I sure would be interested to see the percentage of players that remain with and graduate from the college they entered as freshman, exclusive of players drafted. Maybe it would be higher than I think?

We were given those stats on my son's official visit and had to acknowledge in writing that we had received them. I had the sense that disclosing the info was some sort of requirement, though I don't know if it was required by the NCAA, the conference, or the school.

quote:

Originally posted by Swampboy:

quote:

Originally posted by Flying Dutchman:
I sure would be interested to see the percentage of players that remain with and graduate from the college they entered as freshman, exclusive of players drafted. Maybe it would be higher than I think?

We were given those stats on my son's official visit and had to acknowledge in writing that we had received them. I had the sense that disclosing the info was some sort of requirement, though I don't know if it was required by the NCAA, the conference, or the school.

It is a requirement. Most who receive them have no clue what they mean.

OB44 great post, the success of any college player is the ability to adapt, grow and grind.

I have been waiting for this thread…

It’s not a fun thread, so it’s not five pages long but, it holds a lot of important information for those of us who are at the early stages of this adventure.

Right now, we’re shovelling money into our high-powered travel teams; our beRecruited sites; making sure we nail the exams on our NCAA credits; planning to get to our PG Showcases; preparing to take SAT Courses in preparation for our SAT Exams; he’s working hard at perfecting his mechanics and his game… to attain that D1 Goal… only to find that it is a very precarious success in many cases.

I have done some research and the sense I get is that 30% graduate from the D1’s they started in.

It concerns me that:

1. Travel baseball and showcasing will cost us about $40K to $50K prior to College freshman year (he’s a HS Freshman now)
2. My son will never have a summer job to help with this expense (because he is playing baseball all the time)
3. Is my son going to choose a major on the basis of what he is capable of doing or one that would allow him to play baseball and thus, possibly under-shoot his career potential.
4. He is going to be in the “projectable” category until his senior year when either he does/does not throw at some velocity in the vicinity of 90 mph. Thus, we must shell out the majority of the cash “on spec”.

All of this… so he can have a 30% chance at making the sophomore year!

Don’t get me wrong here. I want my son to have the wonderful experience. I get the sense though that without a lot of research, the “wonderful” part is a very random occurrence.

quote:

Don’t get me wrong here. I want my son to have the wonderful experience. I get the sense though that without a lot of research, the “wonderful” part is a very random occurrence.

First great points.

Second it isn't always wonderful.There are wonderful aspects but it is a BUSINESS. You perform or they move to the next guy.They like some guys better than others, thats human nature I guess.

The question for many of these frosh is play time. If they stuck with the program they might have played more down the line.

The worse thing is when a frosh with a scholly is told to go to a JC by the coaches.This is a huge disservice by the NCAA allowing players to be cut.

Many will argue, but the schollys should be good for four years.If you recruit the "wrong guy" then develop him.(thats is a concept of college baseball)

Colleges now for the most part expect players to be ready.

If your son gets into a wonderful school with a great academic reputation and finds himself in similar situation as mentioned above, he does not have to LEAVE.He can finish his degree.

Most leave due to baseball, and some leave due to the baseball and academics are too hard together.

There are no guarantees with any of it, and injuries have not been discussed yet.

There are risks for the majority of kids.Only a small percent are the STUD players that walk into a Stanford, or LSU and play right away.

Every year they will try to find new, and better guys.

Through the help of a couple of posters on this site have I realized that the player has to battle every day.He has to battle in the classroom, on the field, off the field with homework, when and how to get things done such as laundry, FOOD.

The battle is sometimes in his own mind as to work through early struggles, battle for play time while struggling. Even when starting previous years, no guarantee you play if you do struggle.

It is not for the faint of heart, it is a dog fight.Every day, every game, every test, every class.It is tough stuff.

But while battling you hope they learn how to overcome.They play on beautiful fields, travel and get to do what many boys only dream of.It is years of rwaching this dream.

Just go into it with wide open eyes.many aspects are wonderful, many are not.Isnt that how life is???

Hi Fan:

I believe one of my son’s greatest strengths is a tough mental attitude and the ability to continue to do his job on the hill no matter what’s going on around him. He knows how to put in time for school, as well (I worked him 26 hours just to raise science 3% last term).

I have been hoping that the attrition I see has a lot to do with playing time and players’ anxiety about those in front of them. In other words they bail because they don’t see a lot of playing time in the first two years. My son could live with that. He has worked with older guys a lot over the last three years and he’s not always given the first opportunity.

We have been looking at schools that have pitching coaches that look like they could offer great development (U Conn, Kent State, Virginia, Western Kentucky, Louisville, Oregon). I have begun to periodically follow what they do with their freshman pitchers (who plays/who doesn’t). Next year, I will look at the rosters again (whose gone/whose back). These are places where I believe the pitching coaches have demonstrated the capability to move guys on to the next level. If he redshirts – he redshirts but, more importantly he would be with someone who was working with him and had the faith he could succeed.

For all the apprehension, we wouldn’t change the path. My son has realized a lot of personal benefit already and has learned a lot about life and himself in the process.

quote:

the “wonderful” part is a very random occurrence.

\i totally agree ! My son's experience was magical and a year after graduation , continues to be !
For us it was never about just BB. It was always about the experience and continues to be about the experience! He works for a large International marketing company and has had a huge promotion to a senior position and 2 awards after only 5 months. My wife and I are in shock at his rapid rise in the company !To us it is more exciting than everything he did in BB because this is reality !
His BB work ethic has served him well and as I have said no one cared about his college school but they all asked about the experience of playing D! in the South !
As to attrition of ball players, many reasons exist ! I saw excellent ball players leave due to marks, personal conflicts, running out of money and just being cut !One pitcher who was cut went on to have a great experience at a D11 and was drafted ! That also is reality ! My son has not picked up a BB since his final game 1.5 years ago. He even turned down a job with the Toronto Blue Jays coaching a team they sponsored ! The guy who offered him the job has since lost his job in cost cutting !
Reality is all around us and choices you make are always a risk !

Notlong,

Sounds like your son is willing to take opportunity and make it happen.Sounds like he undertstands the process, and that you yourself are not expecting him to walk on as a frosh and see significant playtime.(not that it cant happen, esp for a good pitcher)

Many of these young men have battled to get there as well.Development is key and one of the things I hope you do find for your son.


EVERY player will struggle at times, and as tough as your kid is, it isnt easy when it happens.

I wish your son the best, it can be a lot of fun for both the boys and the parents.

College baseball is a unique opportunity, and one that will stretch your son in ways you cant begin to imagine until you have beenthrough it.

We felt the same as you did about our path.My son wouldnt change it either, but I am not sure if I would.Thats just my mind reflecting on things missed out on from a moms perspective.

I know baseball has done and will do wondeful things for my son, but I sometimes ponder alternatives.

I am not sure I get spending 40-50K on securing a D1 scholarship. I just think there are some things you should do and other things you don't, regardless of where you live.


Not,
You ought to get together with BHD, who claims he sent videos out to coaches and also lays claim that his son got fabulous offers from that exposure, without spending lots of money and had one of the largest scholarships on his college team.

see the realty aspect s more a parent related problem than a player prblem. all too many prents wear rosecolored glasses with regard to college baseballit has been my experience with my own sons and our players that most of the players go in with eyes wide open' and come out of the experience as mature young men

Hi Fan, good to see you post. I see your son is playing regularly. Is he staying healthy?

I am so glad that you started this threat, Flying Dutchman. Just last week I was talking to some folks about the same issue. My oldest son also played for some elite teams. Many became good friends of my son, and their parent became friends of ours as well. I bookmarked their baseball roster and stat pages last year for about 8 of them, many of them playing at some good baseball schools.

A few weeks ago I pulled up the links to check and besides my son only 2 of the 8 are on the roster their sophmore year. Most got little playing time last year, maybe somewhere between 10 and 20 at bats.

I plan to find the roster for our 16U & 17U team and do a similar review. The players I bookmarked were some of the better players on the team.

The reasons expressed that many kids quit playing or transfer after their freshman year is an important lesson for parents & players to understand.

PUHD,

Yes hes getting back into the swing of things.LOL

Doing well, healthy, finishing up second semester of his junior year at a great school.Degree next year YIPEEEEE!!!!

Baseball is starting rough for USC.Hope it turns around.5 losses by one run, with runer on third and cant score him.UGHHHH

Hope all is well for your son.Next year hes off and running to his new D1 destination.I bet your getting excited.

I can say this I have just seen so many outstanding ball players that it blows my mind.Sooo many really, really good players.Make just outstanding defensive plays,pitching is outstanding.Just a lot of good players out there.

Fullertons pitching is really, really good.They pound the strike zone and they can hit the black with all their pitches.best pitching staff I have seen yet, with UCLA right there as well.

Tough stuff. Fun to watch.I am just amazed at the talent levels.It is quite an eye opener.

Hi TPM:

BHD emailed me and we've been PM'inghere and there since 2006.

His son did play for a team way back then for little money that is now somewhere between $5K and $7K.

There was an article on PG about our 18U team back in October - it said something like they were on the road 90 days a year. That's where a lot of the money goes. At 6 am tomorrow, 3 highway coaches leave with five teams for Vero. The program goes where the competitive baseball is played - in the south. As soon as your high school season ends, our program drops everything it's doing here, and they are on the buses.

I may complain about the burden of the cost but, I know why it's there. These are fairly well-planned events with games along the way - it's a system now. In truth, it is a pretty unique life experience even at this level - a taste of the minor leagues maybe.

Last night, we drove an hour each way through some pretty messy weather with partial white-outs for this session:

http://s910.photobucket.com/al...current=P1030836.mp4

Some of the pitchers in this video will arrive at 8:00 a.m. Saturday and take the hill at 10:00 a.m. in their first game after a 20 hour bus ride.

There have been times already after a night like last night where my son got home at 11:00 and worked on homework until 12:30. I gave him a six hour window to sleep and then prepared him for a morning test. Stuff he didn't think he could do at one time...

Not,

One can only imagine the sacrifces and cost to play baseball for Canadians. Your costs are unimagineable compared to the training and exposure we get locally to be able to play after highschool. I suspect if my son had wanted to play hockey our roles would be reversed. In Texas there are several Jucos with pipelines to Canadian Athletes. At their peak U of H which is re-building now actively sought players ( Jesse Crain with the Whitesox for example ). We're also starting see players from Austrailia.

Many Canadians who I knew personally, played in Texas colleges ! In fact Texas colleges used to recruit here from certain teams. I advise Canadians to check out elite teams to see where their players signed for the last few years . That gives you a good idea where to play ! When my son played there were approx 850 guys playing US college ball of some sort.
I kept our cost down by not doing showcases and relying a DVD campaign .

TDad

Your post brings to mind a Texas hockey team that we saw at one of our tournaments a few years ago. Their costs were ridiculously high, as well.

I have a list of where 300 Canadians went and in many cases where they transferred after. Grayson is one of the TX schools they go to a lot.

My guy is to young for the video to really take effect. He has some personal invites to camps as a result of beRecruited and we will start there.