A Great Day For Baseball

I agree.
I do think things will get better and the contracts should have drug clauses in them that allow owners to recind contracts and recapture some of the money paid to these cheaters. They should also be banned from pro sports.
There may have to be an amnesty period where all drug users can come forward, serve a suspension and a fine levied. After that anyone cuaght should face automatic suspension.

Nothing will change until the Players Association allows thorough testing for all enhancements.

quote:

Originally posted by RJM:
Nothing will change until the Players Association allows thorough testing for all enhancements.

Lock 'em out. I'm serious. Starting this spring. MLB needs to set it up. Nobody plays till they test negative for everything.

From the report summary:
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"The Players Association was largely uncooperative.

(1) It rejected totally my requests for relevant documents.

(2) It permitted one interview with its executive director, Donald Fehr; my request for an interview with its chief operating officer, Gene Orza, was
refused.

(3) It refused my request to interview the director of the Montreal laboratory that analyzes drug tests under baseball’s drug program but permitted her to provide me with a letter addressing a limited number of issues.

(4) I sent a memorandum to every active player in Major League Baseball encouraging each player to contact me or my staff if he had any relevant
information. The Players Association sent out a companion memorandum that effectively discouraged players from cooperating. Not one player contacted me in response to my memorandum.

(5) I received allegations of the illegal possession or use of performance enhancing substances by a number of current players. Through their representative, the Players Association, I asked each of them to meet with me so that I could provide them with information about the allegations and give them a chance to respond. Almost without exception they declined to meet or talk with me."
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It looks like the Players Association is a MAJOR contributor to the problem. The only way to properly tackle the players union and get it under to control is to address the anti-trust exemption that the owners receive. It's time to get ALL of baseball accountable for their actions.

Quincy!

Where have you been? Glad to see you posting again!We have missed you here! Back to your comments...

While I agree with some of your comments, as usual there are some points I disagree with.

I guess in a way I can agree with the distaste for MLB, but I watch the game just as much as I did when I was a child, and I don't think that steroids can ever deter me from watching MLB.

The reason I will continue to watch is that, steroids or not, it will always be the highest level of competition in baseball, and I love to watch it.

I think we all can agree that we would love to have a 100% clean sport, but that will never be the case, IMO.

Steroids/HGH IS NOT the only performance enhancing substance out there. Even before steroids there were drugs being used (greenies, uppers, etc) that can be traced back far longer than steroids.

Having a father who played pro ball in the 1960s and 1970s, I have been privy to stories and rumors about players who used ped's back then.

Who knows when it started? Who knows what a PED really is? Is it limited to steroids and HGH? Or greenies and uppers also? Where do we draw the line? Are protein shakes PED's?

The nature of sports is competition. The nature of humans is to want to win. Sometimes that takes humans to the point where they will "cheat to get an edge."

It's not just MLB, the NFL and NBA and NHL all have cheaters. It goes down into the minor leagues, college and high school sports as well, albeit at a lesser rate. I know because I have seen it for myself.

I guess I am writing this to put things in perspective. Just because you are watching what you think may be "clean," doesn't mean it is.

Bottom line, sports is business and entertainment. I sympathize with what you are trying to say Quincy, how young kids should get a shot if they are clean. I just think that will never be 100% the case, IMO.

I will continue to love the game because I love it. It is a great game and I think it will always prevail.

Lot of cheaters still out of that list. Probably the guys on the list were just the careless ones. They were the few rats that die the first day after the exterminator put the venom, the most of them still alive under ground.

quote:

It's not just MLB, the NFL and NBA and NHL all have cheaters. It goes down into the minor leagues, college and high school sports as well, albeit at a lesser rate. I know because I have seen it for myself.

Yes, the damage trickled down through the various levels of sports because it became almost impossible to compete with the users.

Ownership and adminsitrations of the various teams have turned a blind eye to PED's until it became a given that any player who aspires to play at the top levels would almost have to use to attain and maintain the competitive edge.

I enjoy the game but I do not enjoy supporting cheaters (as a fan, a paying customer or a purchaser of their products).

Years ago players took amphetamines after a night without sleep for whatever reason ( including staying too long at the bar of the Concourse Plaza Hotel). Other players for years would have a few drinks before a game to relax. Others still would have a few hot dogs during the game.

In the fifties, it was known that the drugs given to livestock made the animals grow larger and stronger than they had been. Some players would use these same steroids to enhance their growth and performance. Others took to hormone therapy of a sort to improve their performance. (Hormone therapy was in common use in the raising of livestock also.)

The Bizarro Years of the 70's and 80's had players taking a few hits of cocaine before an at bat.

Today HGH could prolong the healthy life span of an athlete an indeterminate period.

The question has been "What synthetic drugs are improper performance enhancers ?".

The second question should have never become a question "When a player becomes involved with illegal drug use, what action should be taken ?". Somewhere in the Bizarro Years the use of illegal drugs was condoned, accepted and not acted upon until the use became a problem.

Sport and athletic competition should be on a pure human level. Talent, nutrition and a good work ethic should be the only performance enhancers allowed.

Cheating is wrong. Nothing will change as said by many. How do they decide whos names come out without solid proof. So where do we go from here? Every time a player dominates Hitting, pitching, stolen bases, will that mean he should be suspected of using some designer drug? How about a cortizone shot will that be a way of cheating ? It helps you perform. I realize big difference, just where is it going?

By april this will be done nothing changed and the sad part is every game you watch on tv will be about the Mitchell report. Every time player who is on the report steps up to the plate or throws a pitch that will be the topic over the game.

I love the game and that wont change. I hope some good comes from this and the young players learn something.

"Sport and athletic competition should be on a pure human level. Talent, nutrition and a good work ethic should be the only performance enhancers allowed."

I Agree 100%!

However, I feel that this will never be the case, unfortunately. IMO, the science of what to take and how to take it is always ahead of how to test for it. IMO there will always be some scientist in a lab trying to develop a designer drug to get ahead of the tests. This is obviously an unfortunate consequence.

I do believe that this report and whatever changes are made in the drug policy will deter even more players from using, but how many and for how long I do not know.

After listening to the coverage yesterday, I think that baseball should go to at least a two year suspension just like the IOC does. I would go even farther to a one strike and you are out drug policy. I think that would truly be the best deterrent. I'm not saying the sport would then be 100% clean, but I think that will get as close to 100% clean as possible.

I agree with beemax. I was listening to XM Radio yesterday and one of the individuals interviewed for comment on the Mitchell Report indicated that he believed "More outcomes of games have been effected by steriod use than by the effects of gambling". His point was that the penalty for Steroid use should be as significant as the penalty for Gambling. One offense and a lifetime ban. This would make the deterrent significant enough to deter the use of Steroids as the game moves forward. IMHO.

The correct penalty should be a lifetime ban and the expunging of all records.

The future use by players thinking they have found an undetectable drug is 'premeditated cheating' and should have large financial penalties, up to and including all salary paid while perpetrating the fraud.

As Hall of Famer inducted in 1962 Bob Feller has stated "If they can't play by the rules, get out."

I couldn't agree more Quincy.

As of now, Roger Clemens has made well over $100 million playing baseball. Barry Bonds has made close to $200 million. Andy Pettitte has made close to $100 million. What if MLB were to take their salary away?

With all of these guys, you can discredit their career all you want. Writers can not vote for these guys into the HOF all they want as well. However, at the end of the day, their bank account is so big that they can set up their families for generations to come, and nobody can take that away from them.

The steroids era has made the risk of taking steroids VERY VERY rewarding for a player's bank account. As long as that is the case, players will continue to risk their reputations and their health to get PAID.

If you were to start taking MONEY from these guys, that may be the most effective deterrent. As it stands, when a player is suspended they are not paid, but they have to be caught through a MLB drug test. What if the MLB could take money away from Bonds, Clemens, etc. based on evidence outside of just a MLB drug test?

I have been drug tested 3 times so far during my career. I know guys who have cheated the test. It is not fool proof. The MLB drug testing system is a deterrent, but a lot more can be done to strengthen it.

quote:

Originally posted by beemax:

I have been drug tested 3 times so far during my career. I know guys who have cheated the test. It is not fool proof. The MLB drug testing system is a deterrent, but a lot more can be done to strengthen it.

How do you react when a PED user advances to the show while the clean guys are left in the minors ?

How will you react when a PED user leaves you to not only not advance but leaves you left to ponder your future in the game ?

Worse still, how will you feel should a PED user get your spot causing you to be released ?

At what point do the players say that this cheating is nothing more than cheating and it will not be condoned ?