A question regarding the role of the left leg during the pitch and long throws

Many or possibly most pitchers straighten their lead leg after foot plant, and it does seem to help generate velocity. Some pitchers, most notably Tom Seaver, get an advantage from staying low and having a low release point thereby giving them a different look from the majority of pitchers. Seaver was able to generate pretty good velocity without the straight leg.

There is quite a difference in pitching. A javelin thrower is trying to keep the javelin from quivering which jobs the force exerted. I also prefer the non running approach to javelin and discuss.
The javelin is very dynamic compared to a BB. BBs slow down at roughly 1mph per 10'
You are also launching upwardly as opposed to downwardly at a small strike zone from an elevated mound.

It is interesting that you mentioned the lead leg coming straight. I noticed this several years ago in my sons mechanics. I found that the leg comes straight just at or after release of the ball. This is due primarily to the fact that the lead leg is the "stopper" or what one throws against, otherwise they would fall down! I then started studying catapults and noting that good catapults had long strong front legs or arms to throw against that went out in front a long ways.

I do not however think that whether one bends his leg or keeps it straight at release has much impact on velocity but has more impact on what their follow through looks like. A bent leg can be as strong as a straight leg and doesn't necessarily transfer into ball velocity. Something (the leg in this case) has to be the equal opposite force to keep the body from falling over and crashing into the ground. Why do pitchers have big legs? To stop their momentum of the arm hurrling forward! Think about it- a 10 pound arm that accelrates at it's tips from 0-90+ mph in less than a tenth of a second is going to create a lot of force/weight that needs to be stopped. That is the job of the lead leg mostly!

Roald62,

quote:

“I have a question for all those coaches and pitchers out there.
Does anyone now or in the past deliberately straighten there left leg when they throw to increase release speed of the ball.”

Yes but if you stride closed with the length of 70 to 90 % or more of your standing height you loose all your linear and rotational gains to that point into the ground, you actually push towards (glove arm leg) home plate that is a declarative mechanic.
With the traditional pitching motion the plant leg can be extended or flexed because the legs are not being used at this point other than posturally because of the early spent rotation and linear drive that is then stopped. The traditional pitching motion is unlike all other throws from a baseball field accept some catching throw techniques, all late transition that puts them into injurious mechanical positions.
The reason you do not injure yourself with even 6 times the stress is because you transition early and have learned to lock your humerus in line with your acromial (shoulder) line early, called early transition that all correct throwing motions like tennis serves, badminton overhead smashes, quarterback throws, Cricket bowling, outfield and left side middle infielders throws make. Notice how you drop step to the stride leg side of center line (about 18 inches) to target that allows you to create early transition and late rotation through release. This is the most powerful position you can attain mechanically.
I’ll bet you perform some great Triceps exercises!!

There is change coming to baseball although very slowly! The leading expert in the world on overhead throwing mechanics and injuries is trying to bring the Crow-hop throwing mechanic to the mound. One of his specific motor skill regimens involves throwing practice javelins so his pitchers get the feel of lining up the throwing object early instead of late. I have been teaching these mechanics to my clients for over ten years now and they feel the same proation snap that you feel with no ill effects that allows them to go at it more maximally, train 30 times the resistance, train specifically and pitch when ever they want to with out worrying about pitch counts. One of my HS seniors last spring ended up throwing at 98 MPH after going through this training regimen and mechanical tenets similar to yours.

If you wish to learn more go to DrMikeMarshall.com and e-mail him your specific questions, they will be published for all to see and I’ll bet he can help you attain even greater distance. All discovery there is free to the public.

I'm of the opinion that the leg straightening is pretty much a non-teach. This happens mainly because of a lot of other things happening prior to this point (mostly unloading - momentum transfer and rotational torque transferring from he hips).

BTW...congrats on the 100mph throw. That is incredible!

I think this is like comparing apples to Subarus. Just because it involves throwing something doesn't mean they can be compared. I'm truly amazed at how other athletes perform and the mechanics involved. Throwing a javelin is a skill that is amazing because it's so difficult but I just don't think we can link it with baseball pitching. But my knowledge of javelin throwing is very limited.

Here are the huge differences between the two

1. Baseball throws off a mound - Javelin throws on flat ground
2. Baseball wants to throw downhill - Javelin is trying to throw uphill
3. Baseball is about throwing through the catcher - Javelin is about throwing to distance
4. Baseball is about pinpoint control - Javelin has much more room to throw in

I may be wrong about this one or it may not be a factor due to my limited knowledge of javelin

5. Baseball doesn't have a line they cannot cross - Javelin throwers has to throw before crossing a line

6. Baseball pitchers do not get a running start - Javeline throwers can get a running start (although reading some replies might not be a good thing)

Overall it's impressive feat to throw a javelin but I don't see how anything they do can translate over to a pitcher. I'm not trying to be rude or combative but that's what I observe.

As for the role of the left leg to me the purpose of it is to act like a shock absorber. At some point there will be a bend in the knee and it allows the body to slow down quickly to get back into a fielding position.

Which I guess leads me to another difference between the two

Baseball pitchers sometimes have to catch what they throw - Javeline throwers don't have to worry about a javelin coming back at them over 120 MPH after they release it.

I don't think I would want to play a sport where a javelin comes back at you like that.

I'm sure most have seen the prior articles about this, but in this thread I thought it might be appropriate to create a link. Its about two javelin throwers from India, of all places. They signed with the Pirates earlier this year and have played a little in the minors.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports...-06-4160228959_x.htm

It's about 2 guys who have thrown a javelin not 2 guys who are javelin throwers. There is a huge difference.

Yardbird, you mentioned trying to bring the crow hop in. I attended a session of a Perfect Game tournament this summer and watched a young man attempt to do just that. The officiating crew did not allow him to throw in this manner after a protest. I believe the main argument was the equivalent of him starting his motion about six inches in front of the rubber.

When he used a traditional motion his velocity dropped a good ten mph. While he was taking his warm up tosses with the crow hop he was fairly accurate.

Pedropere,

quote:

“I'm sure most have seen the prior articles about this”

The sad part of this experiment is these two young men were not brought to the right instructor with their already very close to Crow-hop deliveries. They were brought to the NPA (Tom House) and have had to relearn how to drive the new smaller implement by lifting their legs with the destructive traditional motion instead of taking what they already had in mechanics and studying them for their positive attributes. This shows that Organizations like the NPA are not even looking at Marshalls materials or they would have had a place to start from.
I wonder if when they throw the javelin again they use a leg lift? LOL

CoachO,

quote:

“Yardbird, you mentioned trying to bring the crow hop in.”

Yes, I tested Dr.Marshalls material on myself for 2 years before I started to bring some and then all of his tenets to my clients that has resulted this year into a first round pick in the MLB and a first round pick in the NFL totaling more than 50 million in bonuses.

quote:

“I attended a session of a Perfect Game tournament this summer and watched a young man attempt to do just that.”

Very interesting and typical of organizations everywhere that will not allow these mechanics to flourish or even be seen. When my students turn 14, I must give them an acquiescing unnecessary leg lift for them to be accepted at a High school tryout!
It’s to bad Perfect Game is also caught up in the suppression of these mechanics,
People in general do not want to try something unless they see a major leaguer performing them first and with this scenario it will take a long time before safe pitching mechanics get their fair shake

Hopefully the managers at Perfect game were not aware that this umpire did this and that they were not involved with the decision, but I think not from my experience. Usually the umpires are confused by the mechanics, along with the opposing coaches so they must confer with organizers to squash them.
I would sure like to hear the story from the parents view and Perfect games view??
I wonder if perfect game gave them their money back?

Another problem is runners at first and second have little chance to steal a base when a Crow-stepper holds them on because they are almost facing the runner at first and conversely much quicker over. This is when the complaints by opposing coaches whom really do not know the rules start in and disrupt games.

quote:

“The officiating crew did not allow him to throw in this manner after a protest.”

The problem arises from the rule that states you must be in contact with the rubber until you release the ball, unfortunately this motion gives you so much more useable rotation that you are off the rubber much further than the traditional pitchers whom are all off the rubber also from the minimum of 6 inches to 24 inches (Lincecum) when you release the ball in clear violation of this rule! If the same participant protested against the traditional pitchers for the same violation he would have gotten nowhere and they would been allowed to compete with their violations.
Can you imagine what would happen if all pitchers were to be held to this rule?

This year a full Marshall pitcher played for the Springfield Cardinals “AA” for 2 weeks
and got into 4 games where the umpires had no trouble with his legality.

quote:

“I believe the main argument was the equivalent of him starting his motion about six inches in front of the rubber.”

They start well back of the rubber and start their pendulum swing early while still back of the rubber with their ball arm leg firmly on top and pointed forward on the rubber. Then they powerfully move straight forward and rotate off the rubber just a little further than Lincecum does before release.

quote:

”When he used a traditional motion his velocity dropped a good ten mph.”

This makes perfect sense, if he had been pitching all along using a leg lift he would have the same situation in reverse, I believe if one of our fastest pitchers like say Randy Johnson were to have been raised pitching this way he would consistently be in the hundreds, with the potential to get near 110 mph. With no injurious affects.

quote:

“While he was taking his warm up tosses with the crow hop he was fairly accurate.”

I have found that accuracy is more acute with these mechanics because you are releasing from a vertically planed drive instead of a horizontally (centripetal) planed drive.

Finally found an application for Marshal mechanics. Javelin throwing.

quote:

Originally posted by BobbleheadDoll:
Finally found an application for Marshal mechanics. Javelin throwing.

Spear chucking was here first!

Maybe Africa is MLBs next untapped gold mine. I nominate Dr Marshal to head that one up.

quote:

Originally posted by BobbleheadDoll:
Maybe Africa is MLBs next untapped gold mine. I nominate Dr Marshal to head that one up.

Don't even go there! If Africa starts playing baseball or football we will never win a world competition again? We allready can't win with our big swings!

Especially if we send Mike. Kill 2 birds with one stone.

quote:

Originally posted by BobbleheadDoll:
Especially if we send Mike. Kill 2 birds with one stone.

Absolutely correct, If Mike went we would never win and the Eagle would die, not good!
What's sad is Asia is all over Marshall's materials and implementing them, just like they re-engineer everything we invent to perform better!

Yup we got rid of Mike and Africa is no longer a threat. Now everyone is happy.
Now you are telling me Asia will soon be out of the loop as well.

Man, your head really wobbles when dealing with this issue! good luck in the future?

quote:

Originally posted by Yardbird:
Roald62,

I’ll bet you perform some great Triceps exercises!!
Would a 470lb bench press count?

The leading expert in the world on overhead throwing mechanics and injuries is trying to bring the Crow-hop throwing mechanic to the mound. One of his specific motor skill regimens involves throwing practice javelins so his pitchers get the feel of lining up the throwing object early instead of late.
If you wish to learn more go to DrMikeMarshall.com and e-mail him your specific questions, they will be published for all to see and I’ll bet he can help you attain even greater distance. All discovery there is free to the public.

I contacted Dr Mike and got a very nice email back - thanks for the suggestion.

Lot's of UCL injuries with Javelin throwers.

Incredible number of back injuries with cricket fast bowlers.

Let's combine the two so we can be safe????