Academic Scholarship

If you can get your total costs of attending college from academic money, there isn't a coach in college ball that would not love your son. He doesn't have to give any BB money.

anxiousmom,

Welcome to HSBBWB!

As BBH indicated a lot of baseball coaches will like your son in terms of baseball $$, but for him to play he need the skills to make the team. You should continue to get in contact with the baseball coaches and solidify a position on the team. I don't totally agree with other statements that BBH says about coaches only show love for those he gives large amounts of money to, but if there is not a commitment from the coaches beyond come and walk on without a firm commitment for making the spring roster, you may find yourself there in the fall and out in the spring.

Good Luck, Enjoy the ride!

Thanks for your quick responses. And, homerun04, I know he has the skills to play somewhere, per his select team coach, but at this point, it's where will he fit best.

I think the academic money, which is wonderful, will affect my son's decision. I am just wondering if it will affect the coach's attitude towards him. Will the coach be happier to have him since he will cost less, or does it matter at all?

3fingeredglove will chime in here with the right answer...but...

If your son was recruited by the baseball coach, I do believe he is still subject to the academic threshold for academic aid to not be counted against the athletic budget. If that is the case, the baseball coach may very well not allow your son to accept the academic scholarship unless he meets the threshold requirement.

I would guss that since he has recieved such generous academic offers, he probably qualifies.

Is this a D1?

anxiousmom,

Great about your son's skill, I was not questioning them.

Finding the best fit both academically and athletically is the key.

One great thing about academic scholarships is they usually are for four years and baseball money is renewed each year.

I had a related question...since the baseball budget didn't commit any money to you might the coach feel less committed to you and treat you much like a walk on, where a scholarship player might have a leg up?

That's the $40,000; does a coach really put more stock in a player who he has invested an amount of baseball money. How does it look that someone he has for free out performs a player who is getting money? There might be some sub-conscious thought of liking the player and giving him more chances. The coach might sub-consciously want the player to succeed more than one who is not getting money.

But the bottom line is it is the coach's job to win and often times the coach wants to win at almost all cost, even at the expense of possibly playing a player who out performs another player scholarship or not.

homerun04, I understand totally your question about my son having the skills to play baseball. I think you're right too about finding the best fit, academically and athletically.

That's the hard part for us right now, knowing where he can play and be a part of the team AND get a good education too.

I appreciate all your responses.

Now you can see why I chose the username "anxiousmom."

anxiousmom,

You mention an academic "full-ride". Do you really mean tuition, books, fees, room and board? For selfish reasons, I'd like to know what class of colleges offer this kind of academic scholarship. I'm familiar with academic scholarships that cover 100% of tuition and books, but room and board? Even if the family has no financial need?

I believe that a coach will generally prefer a player who has non-baseball money to one who does, assuming they have equal talent and skills, because it may free up money for younger incoming players. However, unless a player is a recruited walk-on, he quite likely will not be given a reasonable opportunity to show he can play. But if your player is offered very good academic aid, and you know that he would be attractive to the baseball program, then I think it is better to take the academic aid.

If the player qualifies for the academic aid exception to the equivalency calculation (for D1, 1200 SAT or 105 total ACT, or 3.5 GPA, or top 10% of class; D2 has less stringent requirements) then everything is easy.
If he doesn't qualify for the exception, then the college would need to certify (both the faculty athletic representative and the director of financial aid) that the aid was given without regard to baseball. The certification may be problematic, and the financial aid office may prefer to know nothing about a student's baseball prowess before committing to the acadmeic aid.

Recruited vs non-recruited can make a difference, but as a practical matter it takes a very unusual situation for a truly non-recruited baseball player to have any shot at making the team. So I'm not inclined to try to list all the permutations of how this would matter, because it's a fair amount of work. If you want to disclose what NCAA division the schools are or if this is NAIA, I'd take a shot at it. Of course, all of us here can easily understand that you might not want to go into that detail

Anxiousmom:
Will the college coach guarantee him a roster spot? Some coaches will guarantee a roster spot to players who come on financial aid or academic money, and then treat them exactly the same as the baseball $$ guys.

I'm not saying every coach does this, but some coaches find the players they want, and don't care what the source of the money is to get them there.

If he's good enough, he'll play regardless of where the money came from. Like previously stated, any coach that can get a player (especially a good one) for "free" will jump at the chance.

3fingeredglove,

Yes, I do mean academic full ride, including books. His academic credentials are pretty darn good. For example, his ACT score total is 131.

I'm not comfortable naming the schools at this point, but maybe I can after some decision is reached.

Where can I find out more about this equivalency calculation? Is there a thread on this message board?

Like I said earlier, this message board is so full of useful information. What did folks do before the 'net?

quote:

I think the academic money, which is wonderful, will affect my son's decision. I am just wondering if it will affect the coach's attitude towards him. Will the coach be happier to have him since he will cost less, or does it matter at all?

The coach is going to spend all of his scholarship money. He is going to put the best team on the field he can. He doesn't really care if one of his key guys is on all academic money or has a rich uncle paying his way. He gets a little antsy when a guy on a big scholarship player doesn't pan out well, but a good baseball player on all academic money is a bonus. The high scores give the coach an added comfort level with the player's ability to stay eligible.

If I can add on thing to consider, that is a bonus about academic money!?!? It does not go away if the Program faces sanctions for NCAA violations. It sounds like a win-win to me. I agree with those who've stated the coach's main goal is to win.

That usually means the best team he has will be on the field!!

I see you guys are from Katy? Where does your son play summer ball? We may have played you guys this summer?

GED10DaD

GOD loves catchers!

anxiousmom,

Welcome to the HS Baseball Web, and CONGRATULATIONS, this is a very pleasant issue to be anxious about!

Would you mind letting the other posters know what division of college (DI, DII, DIII, NAIA) you are talking about for your son's academic offers? We can totally understand you wanting to keep the name of the specific school private, but knowing the division will help other members give you more targeted advice since the recruiting and scholarship rules differ so much between divisions. (And it will also make the advice given here even more helpful to future readers with a similar question.)

Keep us posted, and best wishes to your son!

Julie

anxiousmom......i'm confused about the 131 ACT total....it would be easier if you posted the COMPOSITE score.......i.e., 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33 or above.

3fingeredglove.......this falls under "merit aid" and that's how you search for it at the websites. sometimes you can email the honors department chairs and ask them about merit aid opportunities and you can also check with admissions or the dean of enrollment. sometimes only partial or full tuition may be awarded but yes, sometimes a full ride is awarded. sometimes it is based on merit alone and then there are sometimes when the merit aid awarded is based on the financial need of the student. your post is right on....it's a very complicated process and not everyone understands the rules when it comes to academic merit aid. the op could check with the compliance officer(ncaa) at the school that is involved and that might be a good place to start. sadly, it's really a very separate process from each other.....academic recruitment versus athletic recruitment. the one hand doesn't know or care sometimes what the other one is doing.

would it be helpful to perhaps get in touch with the dean of enrollment for the college ? he/she could maybe answer some questions about the academic/athletic issues. awarding of the full ride shows that they are indeed interested in your son choosing their school. is he nmf by chance ?

It is very confusing. One of the admissions counselors told me that sometimes the baseball coach asks her to step out of the process. She said she had four years of experience in admissions and that she was still confused by the academic money versus athletic money.

As for my son's ACT score, I added up all the subscores just because I saw that mentioned here. His composite score was 33 (36, 34, 32 and 29). He is a NMSF, as well.

Before I say anymore and give away my son's identity, do college coaches ever lurk around here? Maybe they are much too busy coaching these days and getting ready for some baseball...

hi anxiousmom,

I have heard one thing that you should check out. Academic scholarships probably carry much more stridgent requirements. Read the requirements over very carefully.

The example related to me was that a kid on an academic scholarship made a "C" one semester. The overall average still met the requirements but the single "C" did not.

The result was that the student lost the academic ride!

quote:

Originally posted by AL MA 08:
hi anxiousmom,

I have heard one thing that you should check out. Academic scholarships probably carry much more stridgent requirements. Read the requirements over very carefully.

The example related to me was that a kid on an academic scholarship made a "C" one semester. The overall average still met the requirements but the single "C" did not.

The result was that the student lost the academic ride!

It's a very good point. Happened to my son one semester. If the grades slip below a "floor", so does the scholly.

quote:

Before I say anymore and give away my son's identity, do college coaches ever lurk around here? Maybe they are much too busy coaching these days and getting ready for some baseball...

They have been known to lurk, along with some MLB folks.

NMSF recognition is a different beast so to speak. Congrats ! Sometimes, simply the recognition alone garners the merit aid award (partial tuition, full tuition, full ride). NMSF and NMF's are sometimes recruited (by admissions) and the red carpet is rolled out for them. Some schools are very interested in enrolling them, some are not. Sometimes the merit aid $$$'s come from endowments that are "earmarked" for the recruitment of NMSF's and NMF's. Your son scored well on his taken PSAT his junior year and that's how he got the NMSF recognition. He was likely required to take the SAT this past fall in order to advance in the NMSF, NMF contest. Did he take the SAT ?

NMSF's and NMF's may be recruited heavily by the admissions/enrollment management staff, however, what we found is that coaches (d1, d2 levels ) did not understand the significance of the nmsf or nmf recognition and so they showed little to no interest.

There are dozens of colleges that are eager to enroll nmsf's and nmf's. Hoping you can find a good fit where the coach and the admissions/enrollment management folks are on the same page. I think your son has until May 1 to make a final decision and pick a school. I do think that if you'll bring this situation to the attention of the Enrollment Management Director or Dean at the school, they may be able to give you some answers. Check with the colleges involved about what is their final date to accept the full ride packages ? Some colleges have different dates that may or may not be sooner than the National Merit May 1 cutoff date.

Ultimately, the coaches who understood the significance of the NMSF/NMF were at the Division III level. But.......the most generous full ride offers came at the D 1 level.......and so that's a question....Can he play at the D1 level ? What level schools are showing interest ? Have you completed the FAFSA and the CSS Profile and would your family qualify for significant financial aid? There are EFC calculators at the collegeboard website. I think Princeton may have one as well and so do some other colleges.

Congrats, too, on the 33 ACT. That's a great score. I think the SAT equivalent may be a 1470.

You might want to contact the National Merit folks to make sure that all paperwork is being submitted on the timeline as required. You don't want something to slip through the cracks.

It's all very perplexing..hang in there ! Your son is in a great position here and he's provided himself lots of options. Wouldn't hurt to be in contact with 10 or more schools/coaches as you have to cast a wide net when dealing with this type of situation (the NMSF, NMF). Has he contacted the ivies, service academies, or the top d3 academic schools yet ? They have a limited pool of top student athletes at your son's academic level from which to recruit.

if you'll google National Merit Semi-finalists full ride colleges, you may find a listing of additional colleges to contact. college confidential website has some lists there at their board as well.....do a search.

I think it is important to relate the division of college you are referring to. As MN Mom stated it really makes big difference in advice given.
I doubt any coach will figure out who your son is based on the general info given. There is nothing wrong with the questions y

anxiousmom,

I think that one of the issues you're grappling with is how to estimate the level of interest the baseball coach has in your son at the schools that have offered the academic scholarship. That's one of the reasons that I asked about the meaning of "full-ride". Typically when people discuss academic money, the term "full-ride" means 100% of tuition; when discussing athletic money, "full-ride" means quite a bit more, and is pretty close to the total cost of attendance.

So if, as I surmise from your reply of "academic full ride, including books", the offers have not included room and board and other items in the COA, then your son could in principle get a larger award from the baseball program or money in addition to the academic award. A sufficiently skilled pitcher can receive awards approaching the COA.

For D1 and D2 schools, colleges are limited in the number of "equivalencies" that they may award to the team of baseball players. D1 allows 11.7 and D2 allows 9. One equivalency is the value of a full grant-in-aid, which is defined as the total cost of tuition, books, fees, room and board. However, any academic money that your son gets will be exempted from the equivalency calculation (see 15.5.3.2 and 15.5.2.2 in the NCAA Manuals), and won't figure into the 11.7 or 9 limits.

If the baseball coach has significant interest in your son, he might be willing to expend part of his equivalency pool to augment the academic money. A D2 school can offer small amounts of athletic money (which could be used to gauge interest) but D1 schools have to provide 25% if they provide any athletic aid. Actually, if a D1 school had enough interest to augment the academic money with another 25%, I'm pretty sure you'd already know about it.

As far as I can see, there is no downside to talking to the coach(es). Coaches sometimes want to handle applications rather than having them go through regular channels, because many colleges permit athletic programs extra admissions leeway for designated student athletes, but that wouldn't be an issue in your case. Also, it is completely clear that your son's academic money will be exempt, so the recruited/non-recruited distinction won't matter.

nmsf and nmf FULL RIDE offers ....they usually include tuition, room & board, maybe books. they cannot exceed the total cost of attendance (COA). some schools recruiting nmsf's, nmf's will even through in a laptop computer, also will pay for a visit to the school (flight and hotel). these offers come through the admissions office, not the coach. these offers are completely different from athletic recruiting offers.....completely. it's a different beast than athletic recruiting $$$'s altogether. it's 100 percent academic, no athletic $$$'s are a part of the offer.

now there are some schools, yes, that may only offer full tuition to an nmsf or nmf. they may waive out of state tuition. the coach may decide to through in some partial dollars......say 1k to help cover room, board, books. this might be at the d2 level. each school has their own individual policies as to what they offer to nmsf's and nmf's. it varies from school to school so that's why you have to see the offers in writing and compare them. i really think the op is referring to a national merit full ride offer which is academic and not athletic...and does include tuition, books, room & board.

some schools may only offer 1/2 tuition too.

the op's son has a real opportunity here to gain admission to top schools in the country and to find a good fit for him where he can play baseball and excel at academics at a nationally ranked academic school. he should go where he is wanted for both the academics and the athletics, not one or the other, if it's important to him to continue to play baseball. there are posters here with kids at the ivies and other top academic schools and they can likely share their stories.

I can't thank you all enough for all of this wonderful information. It's something I've been thinking about and researching with little success. I would like to PM a couple of you and ask you some more questions that maybe I shouldn't post on here.

The schools he has been talking with are D1.

Unfortunatley, he will not become National Merit Finalist, only NMSF. His GPA wasn't high enough to continue in that competition.

One of the schools that offered full ride didn't even know he was talking with the bb coach, and the bb coach didn't know he was offered an academic scholarship.

I would like him to pursue a lower level bb program, because I want him to have a secure spot on the team. He, of course, wants to hang in and wait on the D1 offer(s).

Any further suggestions? Maybe he should apply to other schools and talk to other coaches?

jmho, he can keep contacting coaches....10 to 14 or more. it's not unusual for kids with high ACT's (and 33 is a great score) and nmsf to apply to 10 to 14 schools or more. you can build a list of safeties, matches, and reaches (and include different divisions, d1, d2, d3, and naia. i think coaches would like to hear from him since he has the 33 ACT. it's worth a try ! maybe others here can give you a list of schools that might be a good fit for him baseball wise and academic wise. visit petersons.com and you can run queries to generate lists of schools that meet his criteria. always be sure to include the 33 ACT and the nmsf recognition.

in texas some schools that come to mind are trinity, southwestern, tcu, baylor. smu. baylor has a merit aid calculator i think. they used to anyways. i think southwestern does also. in arkansas, hendrix is one you might check into and in okalahoma, oklahoma city university and tulsa both come to mind as more academic type schools. check with texas tech and texas a & m as they recruit national merit.