Academics, when do they come into play??

Is it possible that the coaches or their athletic department already sent a request to your son's school for a transcript request (meaning they already know his grades)?  

I am a high school guidance counselor, and we often get faxed requests from colleges asking us to fax over a prospective athlete's unofficial transcript.  Now, our department never does this without talking to the kid first to make sure it's ok that we fax that information over...but I wouldn't be shocked if some other guidance departments/coaches would just send that information back without asking.

In many instances, I will get a request from a school and ask the kid about it-and he/she will be totally surprised or not even know the college was interested.  This is just my 2 cents...I do think that it is odd in your case with dealing with large D1's that you haven't been asked AT ALL about grades.  

Has he filled out his NCAA clearinghouse forms by registering on-line? Colleges could access the info that way. Have his high school coaches been contacted? Maybe a scout that has watched your son knows what kind of student your son is.

As I remember before an official visit the college must have your sons unofficial transcripts. Academics do matter @ most colleges and the best bonus is that your son may qualify for academic money to add to his athletic aid.

I have seen several student-athletes verbal to good college programs that did not make it by admissions, so it does matter. I have also seen players be admitted to the colleg of their choice and flunk out of school because they couldnt balance the tough athletic/academic schedule. Tell your son to keep working hard in the classroom.

The answers you got were sufficient to assume that there may be a possibility that they have already done their homework. 

I will have to admit that many times coaches pull weight in admissions and they will get a commitment from a player even before he has taken any test.  I don't get that either, but if we tried to figure out everything we wouild go crazy,  I think that local schools often take players just so no one else will and those players head to JUCO eventually or end up attending and then have to leave.

The whole idea of staying on top of academics, IMO, is so that you know as a parent that your son will be capable of playing at that level AND take 16-18 credits in his major and stay on track to graduate in 4 years if not just soon afterwards.

I think the really good coaches stear clear of asking for that stuff so that the recruit doesn't have a let down, so I will bet that some of it is done without the player knowing. They may just check to see if they are eligible through the clearinghouse.  I don't think that I have much respect for any coach who would ask a player to commit without first determining if they can handle the academics but I think that is often ASSUMED that they are ready for college. It would be up to the parent who understands their child better to guide him to the right program, not just Big State U because that was where he always wanted to go.

Don't worry, grades ARE important, don't let anyone let you believe otherwise!

Hope that this helps.

hardgame, as was mentioned earlier, if your son is registered with the NCAA Eligibility Center (formerly called the NCAA Clearinghouse), the school(s) may have submitted his name on an Institutional Request List (IRL) and received his academic info that is on file.

If he isn't yet registered with the Eligibility Center, then they probably obtained the info from a coach, pro scout from the area, or both.  If he hasn't yet registered, be sure he visits www.ncaaeligibilitycenter.org or .com to get signed up. 

I have been a long time poster saying how important grades are, however the reality is that grades (good ones) are inversely proportional to the velocity a pitcher throws.

So if your son is throwing 96 in HS - his grades are not too important. For the rest of the mortals out there they are.

As a high school coach my answer is this.   Grades are very important based on the fact that Colleges only have 11.75 (or whatever) scholarships to offer.  The better the kids grades are the more it allows the school to get creative with their money. However with that said if a kid qualifies and kid qualifies.  In California we have the UC/CSU system.  You could get into a CSU by taking all the right classes while getting B's/C's and passing the SAT's.  You could not do the same thing with a UC school.  The next thing is, and I agree with the guy that said this earlier, grades are based off your velocity.  The better a kid is the more some schools will overlook.  Lastly, I have yet to have a kid sign a letter of intent, or verbal without the school requesting a transcript.  Also keep in mind, and someone said this as well, they have to been on NCAA clearinghouse.

grades are always important   regardless of how hard you throw

Well, to clarify, yes if the flamethrower is truly in the 90s as a HS player then its doubtful he will need to go to college.  In that case grades will not matter.

For everyone else, understanding and passing your courses, hopefuly with good grades, will allow you to succeed in life, never mind getting into college.

And college selection still should be about what the school will give you in the absence of baseball, unless you are the aforesaid first 10 rounder come MLB draft time.  So therefore, a quality college will always be looking at grades when making the final admissions decision.

Just wanted to add another dimension to this conversation.

Grades are important...even to the player's pro possibilities.  If a given HS player has few (or no) college options due to academics...even if he is a top talent, the pro team that drafts him will know that and it can effect their offer.  That is, they know they don't have to "buy him out of" college...so to speak.

Frankly...if the top player in the country was also stellar academically and could get into Stanford/Vanderbilt/etc... he could enhance his pro offer by having a commitment to a school like that.  Those schools are harder to 'buy' kids out of.

But even that situation is not that simple.  At the same time, some pro teams will just pass on such a player figuring his cost will be too expensive to get him to forgo college.

Re: why bother focusing on academics

1) Academic merit scholarships. These can be combined with athletic scholarships, unlike need-based financial aid. If the team can have your son for "less" (due to some of the $$ being picked up by academics), your son will become even more appealing. Despite baseball full-rides being very rare, this is one way to get pretty close.

2) The better your grades, the more schools that can recruit your son. As Fenway told me a long time ago, if your son has good grades, you don't eliminate any schools from your prospective schools list. And more possibilities/options is always a good thing!!

And yes, I have heard of kids committing early and then having to scramble a bit because they got rejected by the admissions office. (Big D1s).

hardgame,

I sent you a private message yesterday but forgot to tell you.  My bad.  You can find it in the "Dialogs" box on the top right hand corner of the Website.

Academics should always be in play. Very few players will play past high school or college. All players will go out into the real world (God willing) once they graduate college. In the real world, nobody cares where you played college baseball if you don't have a solid academic record.

Academics should always come first, and sports should always come second. I have never agreed more with a TRHit post. Let me be a little clearer: if I'm a D1 coach, and I have a choice between an academically mediocre player with good skills and an academically exceptional player with above-average skills, I would probably pick the academically exceptional player. Why? Because he's more likely to be eligible; he can help the team. The academically mediocre player may or may not be eligible; if he is, he'll help the team more. If he isn't, he'll be a waste of a spot.

This x1000.  I'd also add that taking the ACT or SAT (whichever fits you best) multiple times is one of the best things you can do for your son.  I generally recommend starting late sophomore year.  Take it once then, once or twice as a junior, and once again as a senior.  

Schools take your best score per section.  So if I took the ACT three times and my English section score went: 22, 23, and 25, they'll count the 25 towards admission.  They call this "super scoring," and it's very much to your advantage to take the exam multiple times.  

Besides super scoring, it also helps with test day nerves.  I know RecruitTalk Son turned a whiter shade of pale (to borrow from Procol Harum) on his first test day!

Be careful, not all colleges will do that. The top ones don't; they want to see all the scores. Most colleges do not care about anything but composite score for the ACT as it is.

Well, I guess I'd be an atypical D1 coach. On the other hand, I'm glad someone else realizes the importance of grades. I know this isn't a baseball example, so feel free to shoot me if you want.

Crystl Bustos is like the Babe Ruth of  softball; she's the best hitter the game has ever seen. IMO, she revolutionized the game from small ball to "swing big," much like Ruth did. She was a fantastic player coming out of high school, probably one of the best in the country. She had to play JUCO, because she didn't have the grades for a D1.

Let's be honest: I'm a young guy; I haven't graduated high school yet. I probably won't play baseball in college, but that's dependent on where I end up going. I've always focused on my grades, because grades are what will make my future. Not my ability to throw 95 MPH fastballs (because I can't). Now maybe I'm old fashioned, but I think a lot of the issues with people acting like idiots in high school would be ameliorated if parents forced them to do schoolwork.

Some people hate to do schoolwork. You have to force them. It's the single most important thing you can do in high school, IMO. Do well in high school, do well on the SAT/ACT, and do community service. Do well on the field too, if you're playing ball. If you do all of those things, colleges will want you. You can get more money for academic scholarships than you can athletic.

I can say that without a doubt, Web would not be playing where he in now without excellent grades. The first request from the RC at his school, after we decided that there was mutual interest, was to send transcripts and test scores to make sure that Web could get admitted. 

I agree with blue10, the academics just open up more opportunity.

We were fortunate to get Web in to a summer program the summer before his HS freshman year that is run by a former D1 AC and RC. He had Web start taking PSAT's his freshman year. He took the SAT's 3 times and the ACT twice, I believe. His scores went up every time. Any of the colleges that we talked to only took the highest scores. Studies have shown that test scores tend to go up every time you test.

Another interesting tidbit we got from the summer coach is that college coaches take one point off your GPA to predict your college GPA.

Good thread!  Yup grades and scores matter.

I'd like to add some info about testing.

1. As Low Finish said, most colleges do not Super Score the ACT. They use the composite (1-36) score, plus writing if that is their policy. I am seeing a handful of colleges say they will Super Score the ACT but it really isn't a common practice. it is very common for colleges to Super Score the SAT.

2. Many selective colleges do not allow "Score Choice," that means they want to see ALL scores taken (ACT, SAT all dates, and SAT Subject Tests all dates). That being said, they do admit you based on your best, so they are able to see the lower scores but make admission decisions based on highest.  

3. In contrast, many colleges will allow you to exercise "Score Choice" and pick your best test "sittings" to send. In that case you are picking test dates, not best sub-scores. So if you rocked all 3 sections in January but were sick in May and didn't do well, you have the option of just sending January to the schools that allow score choice.

4. To a point, I agree with the OP about taking it early and often. But this isn't the appropriate strategy for every student. Taking the SAT prior to completing Alg 2, and the ACT prior to having some trig, can be self defeating. For slow readers taking the ACT without really practicing the timing on reading sections can be disaster. In soph year, what might be a better approach is practicing on real tests that have been released, and taking them in a timed setting like a real test. (Some high schools sponsor such tests as to prep companies. But be sure it is a released real test, not 'their' version of the test.) Use that practice test to really figure out your areas of weakness, and work on this section(s).

5. For top tier and very selective colleges, you will also want to have between 1-3 subject tests. THOSE can be appropriate to start looking at in spring of soph year. If  a student is in honors or AP in a subject that has a test (see the list at the College Board) , by the book published by the college board "The Official Guide to Subject Tests" and have him/her start reviewing now. They should take the subject test in May or June of the year that corresponds with the class. Yup. Prime baseball season, Too bad! (Subject tests are just one hour long, offered most dates that the SAT is offered.) Most kids take subject tests in spring of junior year which is a very busy time.

6. Some colleges accept the ACT in lieu of SAT+Subject tests.  This policy is more typical at the smaller elite liberal arts colleges. Handy to have a great ACT score for those schools.

Lots to know on this topic, but the bottom line is to be as prepared as possible, and, to plan ahead. Get the dates and map out your testing plan!  

web's dad posted....I can say that without a doubt, Web would not be playing where he in now without excellent grades. The first request from the RC at his school, after we decided that there was mutual interest, was to send transcripts and test scores to make sure that Web could get admitted.

Ditto.  Grades and SAT were first questions asked by academic baseball coaches..  Possibly OP's son hasn't run into a school where Admissions is highly selective or grades are not seen as important as baseball.  High academic performers will have options that non-academic performers will have just as elite baseball players will have options that non-elite baseball players will have.  It is important to understand the type of school you are communicating with. 

Another interesting tidbit we got from the summer coach is that college coaches take one point off your GPA to predict your college GPA.

Interesting tidbit.  I'll assume it is the non-weighted GPA.

Hardgame, 

Just because they haven't asked you about grades doesn't mean they don't know your son is a good student.  Many travel programs keep a version of their roster with GPA's and test scores so they can quickly tell an interested college coach if a player of interest is a plausible academic match.  This check often happens discreetly in a matter of a few seconds at game sites.  The silence on the subject may just mean the college coaches already know grades aren't an issue with your son.

Also, many who don't care about academics soon will.  One dad told me his son's travel coach had a heart-to-heart talk with him before his senior summer saying he liked the kid but there just wasn't much he could do for him because of his spotty academics.  He was permitted to stay on the team but his appearances in front of college coaches were limited because those innings had to be invested in guys who might go to those schools.  I believe the player went to a JUCO.  

Hardgame,  

I agree with Swampboy. You'll see it come into the mix in the coming year.  Can't give specific examples, but we know of several local kids who had been getting very good looks and were clearly 'on the boards' at colleges, but when the grades didn't rise up enough, they got dropped from those particular schools for academics.  I think they each found the right home for college but possibly not with baseball.....

At the higher academic colleges, as SB indicated, the coaches looking at your son  probably already have a feel for your son's grades based on the coach info on rosters. However (you may do this too) my son ALWAYS had a transcript in big bat bag (came in handy at a few showcases and tournaments, starting in late Junior year and summer after), and always attached it to any emails to coaches. We made sure they always knew his academic profile.

In the end, academics made a very nice difference for my son, and held back a few  other players we know.  Tell your son it DOES matter!! 

I think what is much more important in this conversation of course is that the HS student who can commit to taking their sport seriously while still getting great grades is preparing him/herself for college and life success.  

Schools take your best score per section.  So if I took the ACT three times and my English section score went: 22, 23, and 25, they'll count the 25 towards admission.  They call this "super scoring," and it's very much to your advantage to take the exam multiple times.  

Be careful, not all colleges will do that. The top ones don't; they want to see all the scores. Most colleges do not care about anything but composite score for the ACT as it is.

----Actually, I think many schools do look selectively at the top ACT/SAT scores of their applicants.  Then, when summarizing the average ACT/SAT score data to characterize the last incoming group of Freshmen, they definitely report the average of the top scores.  Those data figure very strongly into their collegiate rankings which are used, in turn, to keep attracting academically-strong applicants, bring in Federal and/or State funding, alumni funding....etc, etc.

In fact, there has been at least one well-publicized story of a D-1 school that systematically reported falsely high average SAT scores for its incoming classes over the past several years to do just that--improve their national ranking.

Just a minor correction, all colleges now accept the ACT in lieu of the SAT. However, some require subject tests regardless. Also, almost all highly selective colleges require the ACT with writing.

Finally, I would advise taking SAT subject tests, regardless of where you're applying. If you do well, it only can help you.

The composite score for the ACT is the overall score, based on the English, Math, Reading, and Science sections. Colleges do not tend to look at each individual section; they consider the test as a whole.

If no coach has asked about grades and SAT or ACT scores, it is because they knew them already. 

Every college coach worries about players remaining eligible. They simply didn't have that concern with your son, because they knew already he was a higher academic performer. 

Why are grades important to the player? OPTIONS.

The better the grades and scores, the more colleges are in the picture. Baseball ability allows admission somewhat above academic performance. This is a gift. The higher the scores and grades, the better the college (academically) your son might get the chance to play for.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qJfcgHBeN4Q