Advice

What grade and what ages are the players?

Your son is 13, if older players are involved he could get hurt and this is why 13 year olds should not stick to one position.

quote:

Originally posted by JohnT:
Ok... So my 13 year old son is trying out for catcher for his school. As previously mentioned, he is 5'3 and 105lbs. They posted the pop times as well as DEFENSIVE SCORES, HITTING SCORES and SPEED..They are as follows: My son goes by JT

Pop time- #1 overall.. JT- 2.72
Blocking- #1 overall.. JT- 92%
Hitting- #1 overall.. JT-(power #3 overall.. JT- 84%, line drive #1 overall.. JT- 94%
Speed- #2 overall.. JT- 5.2 seconds

GUESS WHAT.. Didn't make the team. Coach told him that he was on the small side and to try again next year. Took his nephew instead and now JT is CRUSHED.. Any advice??

Well, depends on how old the players are. But, if your information is true (and I believe it is), and the players are only slightly older or the same age, then the refusal to put him on the team is ridiculous.

Daddy ball at its worst, probably.

He is trying out for the 7th grade team and its only 12-13 year olds...
His coach would only let each kid try out for one position so he wanted to see what each kid plays. JT is so upset. The coach did tell him however that he should stick w/ baseball and if he grows to try out again...NICE

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Welcome to the HSBBW JohnT. You are keyed into a great resource for all things baseball.

I would advise you to get familiar with this site and do some serious hunting on the subject you raised. After you have been acquainted with the site then try and get your son JT involved.

From what you've posted there is no doubt in my mind that your son has what it takes to succeed in baseball.

If you really want to help your son please research all you can from what our member Boomer has posted over the years. I think you will find some striking similarities. And if you really want to get amped up (in a good way) go back and follow our member itsinthegame. Very good reading you'll find from both of these fine gentlemen.

They both cared a tremendous amount for their sons and both of their sons are very successful. Take a look at the thread here in the General Items Forum entitled MnMom...dreams do come true if you work hard enough!




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JohnT,
When you listed the rankings, were all of the players trying out included in the hitting and speed rankings? Or is that a comparison just among those trying out for catcher?

It would be very unusual for a single (nephew) player to block the #1 hitter overall. There are 8 other positions on the field.

Its pretty tough to tell which 12-13 year olds will suceed at higher levels. I would not get all twisted up in stats, rankings etc. and I would not spend anymore time worrying about how or why the coach picked the players he did....Just move on to Babe Ruth, Senior League, club ball or whatever you may have in your area and keep playing.

I definatly would encourage you or your son to NOT tell others he didn't make the team because of the coach's nephew, even if its true, it sounds like sour grapes and will backfire on you and/or your son at some point. I am sure many posters have son's that didn't make teams at some point yet their kids kept playing and have/did outlast those that did make the teams they weren't choosen for.

Working hard and looking forward will get your son "places", worrying about the 7th grade coach's fairness gets him(you) nowhere.

Good luck.

Wow.

I can understand his emotion, but here's a chance for him to become comfortable with his own opinion of himself and not that of others. His scores were posted, so everyone else can also see that this is a problem with the coach and not him. It will suck not being on the team with his friends, but at his age it will not be hard for him to develop his skills on his own, with you, and/or with an instructor better than he would under a bad coach. A good friend of my son's somehow got stuck down a level as a 10 yr old in LL. He outworked everyone that year and blew everyone away the next year. He is still one of the best players in that age group now in HS.

How did he hit in tryouts? Most coaches will take a hitter and find a place for him in the lineup.

Your son is thirteen. At 5'3" he obviously hasn't hit puberty unless you're 5'3". Once he gets over the bruise to his ego, keep practicing. Find a good summer program and play. Then tryout again next year. If he needs instruction to improve find some.

A good online site is catchingcoach.com. Check out the online camp and videos. I've had several conversations with the founder. His explanations were consistant with what a MLB catcher told my son when he was eleven.

Your son needs to grow and improve. He needs to get past marginal relative to the roster. It's the marginal players who risk getting cut.

quote:

The coach did tell him however that he should stick w/ baseball and if he grows to try out again...NICE

He should have said improve and get stronger, not grow even if it's true. But now you know the coach has an issue with smaller kids. He's not the first coach to think this way. Your son will work his way through this by getting through puberty. Keep plugging.

What happens at age 13 means very little to nothing. Tell JT to keep working hard and only worry about the things that are under his control. Given your description, he should be hitting a growth spurt sometime soon, but until then have him work on his arm strength via long toss and get a lot of at-bats against quality competition.

JohnT, three words for you.

Hitting, hitting, hitting.

Look what it did for Bryce Harper.

I am not sure why parents/kids get their shorts all twisted in knots over not making team “A” at this level. I have coached and know many coaches who have had to make very difficult decisions that they themselves are not happy with, but there is always a logical rationale. That being said it's seldom if ever seems fair to everyone. Likely if you were in their position and knew what he knew, you would have made the same choice. Why is it that we tend to think we know all the factors when we don't!

There are nearly always options if you want to play. Unless you live in the middle of absolutely nowhere you can find a place to play. Why would you want to play where you're not appreciated? Go someplace where you're wanted and needed. You will have a blast and still grow as a player. Think big fish in small pond. Your fish will grow in time so choose your pond carefully.

How tall are 12-13 year olds supposed to be? That doesn't sound overly short to me for that age.

I feel your frustration. Son is in a similar situation. He uses that as motivation to work harder, so there may be a different outcome at next year's tryouts.
Your son doesn't seem so small for his age...however, I know there are some ridiculously big kids out there that start puberty very early. Some of son's friends/teammates who were giants at 12-13, are now shorter than son at age 15.

john T, i feel for your son. i completely understand your situation. let me relay a very similar story. my 2015 did not make the middle school team as a 13yo 7th grader. you dont know my son from "adam", but suffice to say he has always been in the top 3 players in our area in his age group. several of the parents came to me shocked that he wasnt on the team. he was crushed at the time. it may sound cold, but i told him he had 2 choices, quit baseball or go to work. now on the inside i was fuming because i knew there were politics involved. fast forward to the next year. after team was selected, the coach pulled son off to side and basically told him that he "screwed up" by not picking him the previous year. he went on to have a very successful year and in the summer, the coach recommended my son along with 2 others to move up and play with our jv summer program. that put him on the team with those same kids that he got cut from the previous year. he pitched and played cf every inning of summer ball. now move to current year. he is on the 9th grade team as our school has a 9th, jv and varsity squad. he could easily play with jv, but that is coaches decision. we are fine with that. he has pitched 6 innings so far this year with 12k, 1bb, 1hit. i would tell you that even though i know it hurts now, this is a great opportunity for your son to grow. my conversations with my son were to make such improvements that the coach cant sleep at night thinking that he cut you the prior year. all you can control is your attitude and reaction to situations. if your son truly has talent and loves the game, it will become obvious, and he will not be kept off the field. but as other posters have stated, do not make excuses for why he didnt make the team. i am sure others are well aware if the stats were public info. good luck to your son in the future.

Younggun is right on spot. First, your son is really young so let him hurt and reinforce your belief in him. Remind him that ordinarily what sounds like junior high after school ball doesn't effect ANYTHING! If he loves baseball get him on a well coached summer team and focus him on improving more then those around him. He can make it impossible for someone not to pick him going forward, he still has a long way before even high school.

It is tough when kids face disappointment but honestly, he will come out the other side a better player. We all wish we could protect our kids from disappointment especially as young as he is but as young as he is, it should be easy to help him refocus too. Sorry for your distress.

JohnT,

My son had something similar to your son when he was younger. My son went to a camp and was told by the head coach he was good enough to play for the 13u tourament team he was putting together, yet all the other coaches said he should be on the team. After the camp he was real disappointed and mad. The following year, he started in high school and that coach was at a rival H.S., for the next 4 years every time they played my son had some of the best games against them and the last 2 years of h.s. the coach voted for him for all league. After the last game they played against each other, the coach came up to him and shook my son's hand said he would have loved to have him on his team. My son never told him that he had cut him.
I asked why my son never told him, he said because of that coach it made him want to be a better player and has always said because of him, (that coach) "lit the fire" in him.

quote:

Originally posted by Tooldforthis:
JohnT,

My son had something similar to your son when he was younger. My son went to a camp and was told by the head coach he was good enough to play for the 13u tourament team he was putting together, yet all the other coaches said he should be on the team. After the camp he was real disappointed and mad. The following year, he started in high school and that coach was at a rival H.S., for the next 4 years every time they played my son had some of the best games against them and the last 2 years of h.s. the coach voted for him for all league. After the last game they played against each other, the coach came up to him and shook my son's hand said he would have loved to have him on his team. My son never told him that he had cut him.
I asked why my son never told him, he said because of that coach it made him want to be a better player and has always said because of him, (that coach) "lit the fire" in him.

Right attitude, effort, focus & motivation!

quote:

Originally posted by gotwood4sale:
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Welcome to the HSBBW JohnT. You are keyed into a great resource for all things baseball.

I would advise you to get familiar with this site and do some serious hunting on the subject you raised. After you have been acquainted with the site then try and get your son JT involved.

From what you've posted there is no doubt in my mind that your son has what it takes to succeed in baseball.

If you really want to help your son please research all you can from what our member Booomer has posted over the years. I think you will find some striking similarities. And if you really want to get amped up (in a good way) go back and follow our member itsinthegame. Very good reading you'll find from both of these fine gentlemen.

They both cared a tremendous amount for their sons and both of their sons are very successful. Take a look at the thread here in the General Items Forum entitled MnMom...dreams do come true if you work hard enough!




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Here ya go John T: (requested from MnMom / Julie)...

http://hsbaseballweb.com/eve/f...6002781/m/8047084616

"Julie's" - (MnMom - aka: owner of this site / original thread) Newbie's & myself, sometimes have a little difficulty navigating thru...

quote:

Originally posted by fillsfan:
How tall are 12-13 year olds supposed to be? That doesn't sound overly short to me for that age.

Recruiting big, strong early bloomers at age twelve avoids having to teach skills. The kids can overcome their fundamental weaknesses with strength. The coach gets to delusionally feel good about his coaching when they win. This strategy doesn't work starting about 14U or 15U.

John T

I hate daddy ball...we went through the same thing 7 years ago...though my son was not the best at the time, he wasn't even close to the worst. My wife and I didn't take it lying down, we worked our tails off talking to local travel coaches and league officials until he got a chance with another team in the same organization. Long story short, my son is still playing ball and is being recruited to play in college. Not sure that's true for those that made the team that my son was not allowed to join.

Proving people wrong can be a great motivator for kids!
Good luck

I know of a kid whose parents claimed their catching son was daddyballed four years ago by the high school coach starting his freshman son. Next year the coach's son has a 50% ride to a major conference program as a catcher.

quote:

Originally posted by RJM:

quote:

Originally posted by fillsfan:
How tall are 12-13 year olds supposed to be? That doesn't sound overly short to me for that age.

Recruiting big, strong early bloomers at age twelve avoids having to teach skills. The kids can overcome their fundamental weaknesses with strength. The coach gets to delusionally feel good about his coaching when they win. This strategy doesn't work starting about 14U or 15U.

Very, very true. The varsity teams in our region have dozens of former beastly 12/13 year-olds who are now 16, 17, 18 and in the middle of the pack. They didn't have to work hard, so most of them never did. The other kids caught up physcially and passed them up fundamentally.

The average or smaller kids in the early years who work hard on their fundamentals to compete find the game gets easy when their size and strength catches up with their skills.

As a reference, my 13 year-old son is 5' even and 93 lbs, small for the grade, but not a baseball player. Don't worry about his size; he is about average, and will be whatever height is predetermined by his genetics. The hardest working kid in our area is no physical specimen but just verballed to Oregon. Work on the things he can control.

Advice #1 - work on outfield. 2nd fastest and #1 hitter? He would have been a shoe-in if he had listed himself as OF instead of catcher. Being a backup catcher without a secondary position is very limiting for a coach. Also, the wear-and-tear of being a full time catcher can get to a kid by the end of HS.

Advice #2 - work on strength. Especially as a catcher, you are going to want him to be bulletproof. Strength helps batspeed, weakness ends up in injuries. If he is serious, there will be an awful lot of baseball over the next 5 years and staying healthy is primary, that little bit of louder "thwack" that comes from the physically strong kids can get him recruited.

Advice #3 - Bury these feelings of disappointment (I know some will disagree with this). Never, ever, publicly criticize or second-guess the coaches decision to cut your son. Right or wrong, he had his reasons and, most likely, would never admit he made a mistake. The "clubhouse code" is strong in all sports, but strongest in baseball. This coach will know the select coaches, the high school coaches, the umpires, etc., and they will all remember that JT's dad badmouthed the 7th grade coach's decision. I have seen kids held off of rosters, out of starting lineups, and out of all-star teams because of dad's big mouth. Some coaches are big enough to overlook this, but many are not.

Maybe it goes without saying, but love the kid you have and let him know that he represented himself well and you are in no way disappointed in him or his effort. He needs that more than you know.

quote:

Originally posted by mcmmccm:
I am not sure why parents/kids get their shorts all twisted in knots over not making team “A” at this level. I have coached and know many coaches who have had to make very difficult decisions that they themselves are not happy with, but there is always a logical rationale. That being said it's seldom if ever seems fair to everyone. Likely if you were in their position and knew what he knew, you would have made the same choice. Why is it that we tend to think we know all the factors when we don't!

There are nearly always options if you want to play. Unless you live in the middle of absolutely nowhere you can find a place to play. Why would you want to play where you're not appreciated? Go someplace where you're wanted and needed. You will have a blast and still grow as a player. Think big fish in small pond. Your fish will grow in time so choose your pond carefully.

Good post. At 13 son didn't have an option to play bb in 7th grade, if he did and didn't make the team, he would have said oh well and gone off to the bowling alley, basketball court or the golf course. He played late spring through fall and that was enough for a 13 year old.

Whose more disappointed, JT sr or JT jr?

Come on he's THIRTEEN. He did well in tryouts, does that mean that he was the BEST? Support his efforts, that is all that matters. Does it matter? And as stated abboverm never ever criticize a coaches decision, whether you agree or not.

I just have a hard time understanding why a coach would tell a 13 year old he is too "small". You don't tell kids to go out and get bigger and stronger, at 13 mother nature has to do her job first. If the guy is an idiot, who wants to play for them anyway?

Ok, so maybe I am not being supportive enough for the OP, but my experience is that somehow things have a way of working out and he has quite a bit of time on his side to work it out.

You know... There's really a lot of very good advice being thrown out here.

Primary,

Welcome! Sounds like you might have been around the block once or twice.

Thanks for the advice from everyone.. JT was crushed but not because he didnt make it. He is more upset because of who did. The coach pulled him aside and said that if he was bigger, that he would have made the team. My son simply nodded and walked away. I asked him what he was thinking and he said that when we play them this spring (the coach also coaches for another league in the spring/summer) that he is going to shoe him what "little" guys are made of... I LOVE THIS KID

and john t i think that is exactly the approach to take. i know this is your son and we are all overprotective to some extent, but i guarantee you this will not be his last disappointment in life. but, i also bet he will be better prepared to handle the next issue, baseball or otherwise. keep us posted once summer rolls around. fwiw, my son was "small" at 13, around 5'4". i am only 5'9" in my shoes so i had always explained to him that he wasnt gonna be "eye candy" when he walks on field. he will always have to prove himself. well 2 years later he is 5'11" and i pretty sure he will grow another couple of inches as he is only 15. those are variables we cannot control.

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"I LOVE THIS KID"

Atta' boy dad!



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Never underestimate the little guys, sons best friend was small, pound for pound he was the best player, always put the ball in play, great bunting skills.

quote:

that he is going to shoe him what "little" guys are made of...

That boy is going to be just fine with that attitude!

On the other side of the equation, my son (2015/6'4") has always been one of the big kids and I have worried that he wouldn't have the work ethic necessary to really excel because he didn't have to work hard to succeed. I guess there is always something to worry about / work at.

quote:

Just move on to Babe Ruth, Senior League, club ball or whatever you may have in your area and keep playing.

To me this was the simplest, best advice in the thread. So many choices for baseball before high school.

I also found it interesting that the tryout involved tracking data points and then the coach made an otherwise utterly subjective decision. When coaches body shop at the 12 or 13U level, it appears to scream "Can't teach baseball." On the other hand, as a middle school coach he gets a kid for two or maybe three years tops, and there really isn't much demanded of him as a coach other than to round up a team, and get it ready in a week or two for an eight or 10 game season. So he defaults to body shopping rather than trusting the data.

To double-up on some of the really good advice above, this is an instructive moment and after he gets over his disappointment, teach him how to use adversity as motivation. Play Pony or Juniors (the season will last longer, potentially into the summer anyways.

Better yet, with performance factors like those listed in your post, maybe now's the time to look into "travel" ball in your area if you can afford it. Get him instruction, a scaled strength and conditioning program, and nurture some of those tools (especially the speed and hit tools!). Look for a program, not just a team. One where the director talks in terms of "process" rather than their collection of trophies. Where he takes the young guys in regardless of body-type, keeps them through high school, and views development as paramount.

That's just my two cents based on what works for my 5'2", young for grade, 13 year old. Seventh and eight grade are for fun. And if a coach can't have fun competing with middle-sized guys in his line-up, it's his loss.

Hello everyone.. For an update of what has happened since. JT got a call from the coach saying that he messed up and would like to have him on the team. We found out that the backup catcher quit because of the coaches son and the way that he gets treated. The coaches son broke his arm and now they are desperate. He said "no thanks". He is the starting catcher for his Legion team and is starting his growth spurt (I think) He has grown 2 inches since last month and is starting to fill out. He has been working with the coach from the high school and the HS coach loves his work ethic and says that he cant wait to coach him. I asked him why he didnt want to play for the coach and he just simply said, " I wasnt good enough then so I want to prove to him what he passed up on". He is really letting this drive him and we can already see a better baseball player because of it... He will be just fine.

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Now I'll say it...I LOVE THAT KID!



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quote:

Originally posted by JohnT:
Hello everyone.. For an update of what has happened since. JT got a call from the coach saying that he messed up and would like to have him on the team. We found out that the backup catcher quit because of the coaches son and the way that he gets treated. The coaches son broke his arm and now they are desperate. He said "no thanks". He is the starting catcher for his Legion team and is starting his growth spurt (I think) He has grown 2 inches since last month and is starting to fill out. He has been working with the coach from the high school and the HS coach loves his work ethic and says that he cant wait to coach him. I asked him why he didnt want to play for the coach and he just simply said, " I wasnt good enough then so I want to prove to him what he passed up on". He is really letting this drive him and we can already see a better baseball player because of it... He will be just fine.

Baseball has many "life" lessons to be learned for those that ALLOW their athlete to experience and LEARN!