Advice From UVA Pitching Coach -- How Many Pitches Should a Twelve Year Old Throw?

Good Info. but I believe Mike Ballard and Mike Kamrath had arm surgery. Good information though.

The pitch count discussion is good, until they start talking about 12 year olds throwing curves.

However, the drill that Coach Kuhn demonstrates after the pitch count discussion is terrific. I've seen Kuhn demonstrate this before and it really makes sense. Especially the part about Mom's recognizing when their player's mechanics are going to H*ll.

Should this thread be sent to pitching or general forum as well? I don't know how to do it, or I would.

BB8888,

Kuhn mentions the "16 years at UVA" and that makes it sound like he's been at UVA all 16 years. Actually he got to UVA when O'Connor got there, what, 4 seasons ago? I am not sure where he was before that. Anyway, I think Kamrath and Ballard were hurt before Kuhn arrived, in all fairness.

There have been UVA guys to encounter arm trouble since then, though, albeit not to the extent of needing surgery. Yet. Not a criticism of Kuhn, but it'll happen in due time. There is no magic bullet.

And, it bears mention that in the heat of battle, some of those iron laws get bent a bit. They are more guidelines than hard and fast rules. But again, that's not an indictment of them any more than any other program that would do the same things.

To add to Midlo Dad's post...

Coach Kuhn before UVA... now starting 5th year

University of Arkansas at Little Rock - 7 yrs. P/C
Charleston Southern, SC - 3 yrs. P/C
Buchholz HS, Gainesville, FL - 2 yrs. P/C

quote:

Originally posted by MWR-VA:
Coach Kuhn before UVA... now starting 5th year
University of Arkansas at Little Rock - 7 yrs. P/C
Charleston Southern, SC - 3 yrs. P/C
Buchholz HS, Gainesville, FL - 2 yrs. P/C

--------------------------------------
Kuhn (an Assistant Coach....maybe #3 or #4 guy) does spin it a bit, don't you think?

However, to imply that he's been around 16 years (and at UVA at that) is way too much rotation.
And then to simply and emphatically say there has been zero arm injury (implying in 16 years at UVA) the gyro nearly broke (probably similar to the Intel Satellite out of control).

Yet, Kuhn may be a bit of a new Dad to understand the arm injury debate.

And one that's gone on for years and years:

Whose watch did get hurt on
vs

He was injured when we got him.

Let's put a marker on a few names in addition to both of the Mike's mentioned above.

But before that can of worms is opened, I was trying to think about the arms from UVA that have big league experience.

More recently (maybe in the last 15-20 years) try:

Daneker (Pa kid - 1 good year),
Greisinger (most well known young hot prospect),
Johns (goes back to mid 90's),
Lankford (briefly),
Horton (very good pro career)
Malloy (briefly)
Lopez (active)

Other than a sprinkle or two (before 1900!), I don't think there was any pitcher from UVA in 50's, 60's, or 1970's in the bigs.

And maybe only Bill Harman in the early 1940's, Buck Rogers (in the mid 1930's), (ok Eppa Rixley pitched forever in the NL for Phil & Cin) and maybe Holland (briefly in the 1920's)

(Hope I did not miss anyone)

To settle up on some of the arms injury's at or after UVA, some may want to re-consider:


Seth Gresinger.
Top shelf guy and supurb collegiate career.
TJ injury, and Nearly right after UVA!
Lost years 91-01, and at 27 then,
no longer the hot young prospect
Who is covering?
UVA? Tigers? Twins? Korea? Japan?

Bob Malloy
Who is covering?
UVA? Rangers?


Alexander Shooter Starr
Labrum and elbow injury.
House (lol) rules pupil.
Only one to cover that. UVA!

And I think the only diamond in the ACC where I see House 'Towels' is at Davidson Field.


Should you want to check out young Kuhn's bio (and new papa in Aug 07) here's the URL
http://www.virginiasports.com/ViewArticle.dbml?SPSID=88...134118&Q_SEASON=2007

And should this blog turn into a
Wahoo-wah, Wahoo-wah. Uni-V, Vir-gin-ia. Hoo-rah-ray, Hoo-rah-ray, Ray! Ray! UVA
then move it out of the MD forum (to VA forum, maybe?)!

cheers
Bear

Bear, im sorry but someone has got to tell you that none of that makes sense to anyone, but you.
You ramble on about stuff that is irrelevant to the video.

And are you saying that the towel drill is bad or do you not agree with House. I don't understand you.

Just another one of Bear's terrible posts.
From what I have observed Coach Kuhn has had some pretty good sucess with his pitchers at UVA in the last 6 years. I think that one of the best pitchers in college baseball currently resides in Davenport Field. But this is the same guy that last year tried to compare MD's program to UVA's program......which is totally laughable...and shows major ignorance....and all of this comes from a MD fan!!

quote:

Originally posted by Terp_Pride:
Just another one of Bear's terrible posts.
From what I have observed Coach Kuhn has had some pretty good sucess with his pitchers at UVA in the last 6 years. I think that one of the best pitchers in college baseball currently resides in Davenport Field. But this is the same guy that last year tried to compare MD's program to UVA's program......which is totally laughable...and shows major ignorance....and all of this comes from a MD fan!!

Jacob Thompson -- 11-0 2007 ACC record -- ERA 1.87 -- right handed pitcher projected to go in the MLB first round -- top 10 overall picks.

Interesting --- the relationship between UVA and Maryland - most prep kids from Maryland have NOT been accepting offers from UofM and have ventured outside the State. With the recent acquisition of Coach Farr, Pitching Coach, (from William & Mary) that trend will change but it will take some time.

trepfan&terp-pride
Must differ with you on your point about md preps heading to md.No less then ten current players are md prepsters with two more just leaving one of them via 1st rd mlb draft.In addition fourteen members of 08 squad are from md public high schools.I also find your term laughable a bit mean spirited.

Terp Fan,

I wish as much as anybody that MD Baseball would get to the point where they can compete for ACC Titles. The reality though is the program is one of the worst in the ACC. I still don't think they are fully funded which makes it very tough to compete in the ACC. I am not sure that the right man is at the helm of the program either. That is just my view though, I could be wrong. I really respect Coach Farr, I think very highly of him. MD is getting kids from in state, but I think the top talent leaves the state or goes somewhere else to often. Wish that would change. GO TERPS

quote:

Originally posted by terpfan:
trepfan&terp-pride
Must differ with you on your point about md preps heading to md.No less then ten current players are md prepsters with two more just leaving one of them via 1st rd mlb draft.In addition fourteen members of 08 squad are from md public high schools.I also find your term laughable a bit mean spirited.

Terpfan - Trepfan is innocent and means litle harm.
Trepfan also likes Pabst (with me) and would also like Miller Lite (with you).

A HSBB webster just emailed me to let me know about another site feature, which appears invaluable (ie. 'ignore), since I have been told it's more than likely the mean spirited guy/gal is a long standing poster, who's son got cut a while back, (and that is the laughable part.)

Thanks for your support.

Bear -- Thank you -- your Pabst Beer reference brings to mind a true story -- when I was a kid I used to work in a deli in Baltimore City and Art Donovan (old Baltimore Colt/Hall of Fame) would come into the deli each Friday night and order a pound of salami, half of rye bread and a six pack of Schlitz Beer. --- and he gave me a $10 buck tip -- on a $7 tab.

quote:

Originally posted by Terp_Pride:
Terp Fan,

I wish as much as anybody that MD Baseball would get to the point where they can compete for ACC Titles. The reality though is the program is one of the worst in the ACC. I still don't think they are fully funded which makes it very tough to compete in the ACC. I am not sure that the right man is at the helm of the program either. That is just my view though, I could be wrong. I really respect Coach Farr, I think very highly of him. MD is getting kids from in state, but I think the top talent leaves the state or goes somewhere else to often. Wish that would change. GO TERPS

You are being too kind. It isn't one of the worst it is the worst. Md. is a team playing in the ACC. It is not an ACC quality team.

I also think to some extent they get good players but they don't know what to do with them. As far as recruiting goes they are just lazy. They could get more by just picking up the phone.

As far as fully funded goes - that isn't the problem. If South Carolina wasn't fully funded they would still get great players to go.

quote:

Originally posted by scout10:

quote:

Originally posted by Terp_Pride:
Terp Fan,

I wish as much as anybody that MD Baseball would get to the point where they can compete for ACC Titles. The reality though is the program is one of the worst in the ACC. I still don't think they are fully funded which makes it very tough to compete in the ACC. I am not sure that the right man is at the helm of the program either. That is just my view though, I could be wrong. I really respect Coach Farr, I think very highly of him. MD is getting kids from in state, but I think the top talent leaves the state or goes somewhere else to often. Wish that would change. GO TERPS

You are being too kind. It isn't one of the worst it is the worst. Md. is a team playing in the ACC. It is not an ACC quality team.

I also think to some extent they get good players but they don't know what to do with them. As far as recruiting goes they are just lazy. They could get more by just picking up the phone.

As far as fully funded goes - that isn't the problem. If South Carolina wasn't fully funded they would still get great players to go.

Totally agree with Scout10 -- having seen the Maryland program recruitment process first hand -- their facilities are below the ACC norm in terms of their stadium, seating and the field also -- they basically meet potential recruits in a trailer behind the left field fence. It is really a shame...and why did they offer the head coach a one year extension???? It makes no sense....The guy has limited communcation skills ----

I can tell you this about Maryland. They could've had Chris Briere (James River 2007), possessor of THE BEST CURVE BALL I HAVE EVER SEEN IN ANY AMATEUR PITCHER, 86-88 mph fastball and projectable into the 90's, for the asking.

They muffed it. Dithered and dallied and never made an offer. Briere ended up at Longwood.

When we get to June, pull up Longwood's stats and tell me if you think maybe UMD should've gone after him a bit harder.

I also question their commitment to the Md. player. A large number of Maryland kids have gone elsewhere to play, and most were turned off or poorly recruited by their home state university. It would be interesting to see what the program could be if they could keep the best players in state.

quote:

Originally posted by deldad:
I also question their commitment to the Md. player. A large number of Maryland kids have gone elsewhere to play, and most were turned off or poorly recruited by their home state university. It would be interesting to see what the program could be if they could keep the best players in state.

1. Make Jim Farr the head coach next year and hire local high coaches as assistant coaches.

2. Fully fund the program.

3. Move the baseball stadium to the recently identified new site near the basketball arena.

quote:

Originally posted by scout10:

quote:

Originally posted by Terp_Pride:
Terp Fan,

I wish as much as anybody that MD Baseball would get to the point where they can compete for ACC Titles. The reality though is the program is one of the worst in the ACC. I still don't think they are fully funded which makes it very tough to compete in the ACC. I am not sure that the right man is at the helm of the program either. That is just my view though, I could be wrong. I really respect Coach Farr, I think very highly of him. MD is getting kids from in state, but I think the top talent leaves the state or goes somewhere else to often. Wish that would change. GO TERPS

You are being too kind. It isn't one of the worst it is the worst. Md. is a team playing in the ACC. It is not an ACC quality team.

I also think to some extent they get good players but they don't know what to do with them. As far as recruiting goes they are just lazy. They could get more by just picking up the phone.

As far as fully funded goes - that isn't the problem. If South Carolina wasn't fully funded they would still get great players to go.

Lazy with recruiting? If you only saw how all over the place Coach Farr was this summer. Your statement is dead wrong.

quote:

Originally posted by happyhourhero:

quote:

Originally posted by scout10:

quote:

Originally posted by Terp_Pride:
Terp Fan,

I wish as much as anybody that MD Baseball would get to the point where they can compete for ACC Titles. The reality though is the program is one of the worst in the ACC. I still don't think they are fully funded which makes it very tough to compete in the ACC. I am not sure that the right man is at the helm of the program either. That is just my view though, I could be wrong. I really respect Coach Farr, I think very highly of him. MD is getting kids from in state, but I think the top talent leaves the state or goes somewhere else to often. Wish that would change. GO TERPS

You are being too kind. It isn't one of the worst it is the worst. Md. is a team playing in the ACC. It is not an ACC quality team.

I also think to some extent they get good players but they don't know what to do with them. As far as recruiting goes they are just lazy. They could get more by just picking up the phone.

As far as fully funded goes - that isn't the problem. If South Carolina wasn't fully funded they would still get great players to go.

Lazy with recruiting? If you only saw how all over the place Coach Farr was this summer. Your statement is dead wrong.

Its not the point of being around the area to recruit they don't recognize talent. I don't know about Farr bt Rupp is the problem. If your not 6ft 3 or better he doesen't take an interest. They do have talent on the team. Rupp worries to mch about size and not heart and talent.

quote:

Originally posted by Kss8890:

quote:

Originally posted by happyhourhero:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by scout10:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Terp_Pride:
If you only saw how all over the place Coach Farr was this summer. Your statement is dead wrong.

Its not the point of being around the area to recruit they don't recognize talent. I don't know about Farr bt Rupp is the problem. If your not 6ft 3 or better he doesen't take an interest. They do have talent on the team. Rupp worries to mch about size and not heart and talent.

I would love to see MD be competitive in the ACC. It would be nice to have a good rivalry between UVA and MD. I agree that Farr was all over the place,,,of course he was the only coach from MD I did see on the road. I think I saw Rupp once at a Team One or PG event but don't remember for sure.

In the past the University did not seem to support the program, hopefully that has or will change. Nothing against Rupp but when a program that wants to compete is unsuccessful year after year in conference, changes need to occur...starting with the university's commitment to the sport.

quote:

Originally posted by happyhourhero:

quote:

Originally posted by scout10:

quote:

Originally posted by Terp_Pride:
Terp Fan,

I wish as much as anybody that MD Baseball would get to the point where they can compete for ACC Titles. The reality though is the program is one of the worst in the ACC. I still don't think they are fully funded which makes it very tough to compete in the ACC. I am not sure that the right man is at the helm of the program either. That is just my view though, I could be wrong. I really respect Coach Farr, I think very highly of him. MD is getting kids from in state, but I think the top talent leaves the state or goes somewhere else to often. Wish that would change. GO TERPS

You are being too kind. It isn't one of the worst it is the worst. Md. is a team playing in the ACC. It is not an ACC quality team.

I also think to some extent they get good players but they don't know what to do with them. As far as recruiting goes they are just lazy. They could get more by just picking up the phone.

As far as fully funded goes - that isn't the problem. If South Carolina wasn't fully funded they would still get great players to go.

Lazy with recruiting? If you only saw how all over the place Coach Farr was this summer. Your statement is dead wrong.

I didn't say that the man was lazy. I am saying that his method of recruiting is lazy. The program speaks for itself.

Scout10 - I've never seen Coach Farr as a "lazy" recruiter. Whenever I talked to him during the spring or summer, he always said he's on his way back home from seeing a player in South Carolina, North Carolina, Virginia, etc.

And Kss8890, you don't have to be above 6'3 to be recruited by Maryland. Do you think Pat Blair (Calvert Hall 09 SS) isn't being recruited by Coach Rupp? Pat's probably 5'10, maybe 5'11, and he is definitely getting attention from the UMd staff.

Work smarter not harder. Why go to Va. or North Carolina when there are a lot of home grown kids that could play at Maryland. Why can't they get more local kids to sign at Maryland?

quote:

Originally posted by SRB55:
Scout10 - I've never seen Coach Farr as a "lazy" recruiter. Whenever I talked to him during the spring or summer, he always said he's on his way back home from seeing a player in South Carolina, North Carolina, Virginia, etc.

And Kss8890, you don't have to be above 6'3 to be recruited by Maryland. Do you think Pat Blair (Calvert Hall 09 SS) isn't being recruited by Coach Rupp? Pat's probably 5'10, maybe 5'11, and he is definitely getting attention from the UMd staff.

I have been to many games and showcases where the top talent from Md has been. There is also top talent from other states there as well. No one that I know has seen Farr at one of them in 2 years.

I have seen coaches from VMI, Radford, Virginia Tech, Coastal, UNC Greensboro, Florida International, Florida State, Towson, UMBC, Virginia, Winthrop, High Point, West Virginia, James Madison, and VCU. These guys all seem to be working hard to find players for their programs. Harder then anyone from U of Md.

I have never seen Rupp or Farr at any of these things unless it is at their field. I think that parents and players would be in shock if Farr showed up at a game.

I saw Farr at games in the Richmond, VA area last year.

Maybe he just feels more comfortable with the relationships he built with VA coaches while at W&M.

Or maybe he thinks the talent pool is richer down here?

No doubt that the talent pool is a little deeper down near W & M, but there are a lot of kids from Maryland playing at Virginia and Carolina schools.

What happen that he left a head coach job to become the pitching coach at Maryland?

Sometimes a coach who applies for a job opening while at one school will get the admin at current school upset by pursuing career advancement possiblities. Sometimes it leads to a coach being shown the door at his current school, warranted or not. The guy is well thought of and will likely be Md's head coach if things don't turn around there soon.

My opinion is that coach Farr works very hard as a recruiter he was all over the place this summer at multiple tournaments and showcases.....but where UMD lacks in recruiting is not following up with kids. I have heard stories from players saying that UMD called one day and then never called again.

If I was UMD in my mind I would be thinking that I want to keep the best players from MD in state because they are not fully funded they can get more quality players for less money.I mean UMD is a good school it has a nice campus and great academics, so its not the schools fault they don't get players(except not fully funding,but they are getting more each year). Also UMD needs to get some better facilities for ACC they are lacking. Their coaches office is Trailer.

University of Maryland not being fully funded. In the ACC! A huge hole to start from. Personally, that is all I would need to hear to scratch them off my son's list. It doesn't matter what caliber player you are, that effects all the players from the stud to the walk on; and obviously the facilities and academic support.

quote:

Originally posted by SRB55:
Scout10 - I've never seen Coach Farr as a "lazy" recruiter. Whenever I talked to him during the spring or summer, he always said he's on his way back home from seeing a player in South Carolina, North Carolina, Virginia, etc.

And Kss8890, you don't have to be above 6'3 to be recruited by Maryland. Do you think Pat Blair (Calvert Hall 09 SS) isn't being recruited by Coach Rupp? Pat's probably 5'10, maybe 5'11, and he is definitely getting attention from the UMd staff.

Does anyone really think Pat Blair will end up at Maryland even if he is being recruited? Of course not. Moot point.

Maryland is doing pretty well so far this year. Maybe you guys need to ease up a bit. They may not be UNC, but they don't look like doormats right now, either.

I think everyone will be pleasantly suprised with the recruiting class that Coach Farr has assembled for next year. I know he has been very responsive to any calls suggesting potential recruits. I know of a number of kids who have received letters after their names were suggested to him and he had a chance to observe them himself.

You have to realize that a potential recruit not only wants scholarship money, an area which Maryland is not fully funded, they also want a chance to win as well. If you look at the kids who are leaving Maryland that the Terps staff are really interested in, the majority were headed to winning programs within the ACC with a monetary commitment by the school to improve or continue the quality of their program.

Do you think that a UVA or Vanderbilt in the SEC would have built their programs up from being league doormats without a huge influx of dollars to build state-of-the-art facilities to impress recruits or fully fund their programs to show the commitment of the school to improve?

The Maryland staff is doing what it can with the tools that they have been given by their administration. You can blame the staff to a degree, but they are playing catch up with the majority of the ACC. Even Boston College is building a new baseball facility.

One such bright spot for the Terps incoming class:
Maryland Recruit Sander Beck of Severn pitched a complete game no-hitter against Severna Park HS Saturday, striking out 8. Was throwing 88-90 on the stalker gun and mixed his pitches well.
We can keep hoping that things begin to turn around for the Maryland program. It takes a special kid to go to a program like Maryland's and turn down potentially "better options" to try to be part of building a more competitive program.
Maybe if more kids like Sander commit to the Terps then some additional standout in-state talent will do so as well to begin a turn-around like the two schools I mentioned earlier.