Advisors - how do they work?

Should you sign a contract with or pay an advisor/agent the player immediately loses his NCAA eligibility ------ according to NCAA rules


Anyone can advise you so long as no contract is signed nor monies exchanged

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Originally posted by TRhit:
Should you sign a contract with or pay an advisor/agent the player immediately loses his NCAA eligibility ------ according to MCAA rules


Anyone can advise you so long as no contract is signed nor monies exchanged

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"I think my time as a parent and coach speaks for itself"
TRhit

1)What players have lost their NCAA eligibilty because of contracting with an Agent? Let me answer it for you... NOT ONE! NOT EVER!

2) Don't give a hoot about your time as a parent, my dog sired 4 litters...doesn't make him a role model.

3) Very few Major League players from the NE in general, even fewer still from CT. Who did you ever coach?

1)What players have lost their NCAA eligibilty because of contracting with an Agent? Let me answer it for you... NOT ONE! NOT EVER!


vodoochile, Just so there is no confusion, would you please clarify this statement so that no readers end up in a sticky situation.

I thought it was pretty clear. NOT ONE player EVER has lost his NCAA eligibility for contracting with an Agent.

Very few players have ever even had any problems with this issue. The ones that have received a "slap on the wrist". For example, Jeremy Sowers who will be a #1 pick in next month's draft was suspended for 6 games his Freshman year as a result of having been represented by an Agent. As a starter, that meant he lost maybe 2 games his Freshman year out of the approximately 12-15 appearances he would have made that year & 35-50 in the 3 years between drafts. Big difference between that & "losing" his eligibility.

You should also know that he practically had to take out a full page ad in USA Today to get caught.

Is that clear enough?

I'm sorry, I will not ask any more dumb questions for you to answer.

voodoochile

You are a real piece of work -- cutting and pasting from another post of mine and using it here--real high class move--

The fact is what I said is correct !!! Those are the rules and most advisors/agents obey them.

As for the rest of your post in response to me-=-I think it stands on its own lack of merit as a personal attack on me.

Being suspended, by definition, is loss of eligibility for that time period--

If all "big time agents" thought like you it would be a one great world--no wonder agents get a bad name--it is thinking like yours that causes that sort of thinking by the general public.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by TRhit:
voodoochile

"You are a real piece of work -- cutting and pasting from another post of mine and using it here"

You've never cited someone else's posts? Are you man enough to stand by what you said or not?

"The fact is what I said is correct !!!"

Not true. What you said is NOT correct. Again I challenge you to list the players who have lost their eligibility?

"As for the rest of your post in response to me-=-I think it stands on its own lack of merit as a personal attack on me."

Your words stand on their own as an attack against you.

"Being suspended, by definition, is loss of eligibility for that time period--"

NO! Being suspended is being suspended. YOU said "the player immediately loses his NCAA eligibility" meaning the ability to play at all.

BTW I'm still waiting for that roster of All-
Stars you have Coached. That way I'll know the caliber of players you'll never let me talk to.

Do advisors actually negotiate with the team even though the NCAA rules say an advisor can't negotiate with a MLB team directly or indirectly? And no one answered my question whether you pay an advisor for his services.

ISPM

Technically and advisor is not to be paid--according to NCAA rules

That is my understanding

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Originally posted by fungo:
ISPM,
A player can "use" an advisor in negotiations with MLB but it has to be done in the proper manner. For instance, the advisor can instruct the player to ask specific questions while in the presence of the team's representative. This eliminates the NCAA violation of the advisor negotiating directly with the team's representative.
No, you do not, nor are you allowed by NCAA regulations, to pay an advisor for his services. You are also not allowed to accept any gift or money from an advisor. He “advises” the player/parents in hopes that player will sign a contract with him when he does turn pro. Until the player turns pro, there can no contract, written or spoken, between the advisor/agent and the player or his parents because of NCAA regulations. At the same time, common sense should explain the player or parent has no control over what an advisor does or says during this time period. If that advisor chooses to speak with a representative of MLB then they would do so without my knowledge or approval.
Hope this helps,
Fungo

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[QUOTE]Originally posted by ISPM:
Do advisors actually negotiate with the team even though the NCAA rules say an advisor can't negotiate with a MLB team directly or indirectly?

Yes.

And no one answered my question whether you pay an advisor for his services.

You're a lawyer, do you work for free?

quote:

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Originally posted by fungo:

quote:

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Originally posted by fungo:
ISPM,
A player can "use" an advisor in negotiations with MLB but it has to be done in the proper manner. For instance, the advisor can instruct the player to ask specific questions while in the presence of the team's representative. This eliminates the NCAA violation of the advisor negotiating directly with the team's representative.
No, you do not, nor are you allowed by NCAA regulations, to pay an advisor for his services. You are also not allowed to accept any gift or money from an advisor. He “advises” the player/parents in hopes that player will sign a contract with him when he does turn pro. Until the player turns pro, there can no contract, written or spoken, between the advisor/agent and the player or his parents because of NCAA regulations. At the same time, common sense should explain the player or parent has no control over what an advisor does or says during this time period. If that advisor chooses to speak with a representative of MLB then they would do so without my knowledge or approval.
Hope this helps,
Fungo

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What you say is accurate according to the NCAA rules. However, the NCAA rules are a joke & they are not enforced.

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Originally posted by TRhit:
ISPM

Technically and advisor is not to be paid--according to NCAA rules

That is my understanding

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Still waiting for that roster of All-Stars you've gotten to the Majors.

voodoochile,

I have sat on the sidelines and been very patient but ......

I am now asking you very politely to tone down your remarks and to refrain from ANY personal attacks against members of these forums.

While at times it appears that you have information of value to offer to our members, your manner and demeanor on these forums makes you a target and many times your comments are considered of less worth due to the manner in which you offer them.

It is my hope that you "get the message."

Thanks to all that have helped in this forum...Voodo when you say that you can negotiate with MLB teams as the advisor, are you saying from experience, I wouldn't want to make a call on behalf of my client to a MLB team during negotiations and have that MLB team say "what are you calling me for, don't you know the NCAA rules"....let me know how you work that out.

Bob,

Good call IMO. I have stopped the back and forth with this guy awhile ago. He has some interesting insights to share - but it was just a matter of time before this guy started denigrating individual players IMO.

VC - have a glass of wine and relax.
Life is good baby.

TR,
I think that most of us familiar with the process understood exactly what you were saying.

Fungo,
As always, you have done a fine job of clarifying what the rules state, not necessarily what takes place behind the scenes. This can be awfully confusing to someone who may not know where to find the information.
Saw Josh play this weekend when I tuned in to see Chuck's boys. Sorry that Auburn came up short, know that feeling well.

Sark,
Never think any question here is too dumb for an answer.

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Originally posted by hsbbweb:
voodoochile,

I have sat on the sidelines and been very patient but ......

I am now asking you very politely to tone down your remarks and to refrain from ANY personal attacks against members of these forums.

While at times it appears that you have information of value to offer to our members, your manner and demeanor on these forums makes you a target and many times your comments are considered of less worth due to the manner in which you offer them.

It is my hope that you "get the message."

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Will gladly abide by your wishes as long as you enforce the same requirements on those who have made attacks & accusations against me. Fair is fair.

quote:

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Originally posted by ISPM:
Thanks to all that have helped in this forum...Voodo when you say that you can negotiate with MLB teams as the advisor, are you saying from experience, I wouldn't want to make a call on behalf of my client to a MLB team during negotiations and have that MLB team say "what are you calling me for, don't you know the NCAA rules"....let me know how you work that out.

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Apparently, you are trying to represent someone without knowing what you're doing & want me to teach you how. "Homey don't play that".

You can learn it the same way I learned it 30 years ago.

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Originally posted by itsinthegame:
Bob,

Good call IMO. I have stopped the back and forth with this guy awhile ago. He has some interesting insights to share - but it was just a matter of time before this guy started denigrating individual players IMO.

I have NEVER denigrated any players in this forum.

VC - have a glass of wine and relax.
Life is good baby.

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I have a collection of close to 1000 bottles & drink a couple glasses every day. You don't have a clue how good it really is.

Voodo,

Talking business, regardless of what my information is for, I would think being an agent you would understand the need to represent each client within his best interest. As an attorney, if another attorney had a question about an area of law that I specialize in I would gladly educate him on whatever he needed to know to help his client.

I do appreciate your information; however, it is completely unnecessary to withhold information to prevent competition...we are all on the same team, making an athletes career the best it can possibly be.

And if your objective is to not educate the needy, why are you even participating in this forum?

So don't worry, I don't need you to teach me the business, I just had a specific question on how the practical side of the advisor business works compared to the written NCAA guidelines.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by ISPM:
Voodo,

"Talking business, regardless of what my information is for, I would think being an agent you would understand the need to represent each client within his best interest."

I would gladly help any player or Parent who asked as I have done several times already.

"As an attorney, if another attorney had a question about an area of law that I specialize in I would gladly educate him on whatever he needed to know to help his client."

I'm not a Lawyer. I was raised to think better of myself than that.

"I do appreciate your information; however, it is completely unnecessary to withhold information to prevent competition"

You aren't my competeition.

"And if your objective is to not educate the needy, why are you even participating in this forum?"

Parents/Players might be considered "needy" in regard to this information. Some Lawyer trying to be something he isn't doesn't strike me as "needy".

"So don't worry, I don't need you to teach me the business, I just had a specific question on how the practical side of the advisor business works compared to the written NCAA guidelines."

If you don't know the answer to an elementary, fundemental question like that, apparently you DO need someone to teach you so you can learn on your clients' dime.

quote:

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Originally posted by voodoochile:


I have a collection of close to 1000 bottles & drink a couple glasses every day. You don't have a clue how good it really is.

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How impressive. LOL

And thanks for the enlightenment.

Impressive voodo, but I'm not surprised you are able to taunt others considering your history of putting others down...keep it up, I would love to send my son to you for representation, your exactly the agent we're looking for!!!

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Originally posted by ISPM:
Impressive voodo, but I'm not surprised you are able to taunt others considering your history of putting others down...keep it up, I would love to send my son to you for representation, your exactly the agent we're looking for!!!

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Geez, between you & TRHit I won't have ANY clients. Maybe I should go to law school. Can you tell me how to do that?

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Originally posted by itsinthegame:

quote:

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Originally posted by voodoochile:


I have a collection of close to 1000 bottles & drink a couple glasses every day. You don't have a clue how good it really is.

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How impressive. LOL

And thanks for the enlightenment.

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It's... I'm not good at turning the other cheek. Someone hits me I hit back simple as that. I didn't appreciate someone sarcastically telling me to relax & that life is good. You're either predator or prey & I don't intend to get eaten.

I'm not sure if you could handle it...they require each student to have morals and ethics.

Voodoo,

I wasnt being sarcastic. I meant it. You seem wound up pretty tight.

I think when it gets to the point that you begin to slam another person's team/program - (one which anyone with access to the internet can view) - to make your point - you have stepped well over the line. You have begun the descent into individual bashing. That is a bad thing - not a good thing.

It is also classless.

All the bottles in the world cant buy you respect. Perhaps a point to remember when you think about slamming again.

Good luck fella.

I think I am getting a headache !!!

Pass the MIDOL please !!!!

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Originally posted by ISPM:
I'm not sure if you could handle it...they require each student to have morals and ethics.

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Since when? Half the people in prison & more than half the people in Congress are lawyers.

What's black & brown & looks good on a Lawyer? A Rottweiler.

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Originally posted by itsinthegame:
Voodoo,

I wasnt being sarcastic. I meant it. You seem wound up pretty tight.

I think when it gets to the point that you begin to slam another person's team/program - (one which anyone with access to the internet can view) - to make your point - you have stepped well over the line. You have begun the descent into individual bashing. That is a bad thing - not a good thing.

It is also classless.

All the bottles in the world cant buy you respect. Perhaps a point to remember when you think about slamming again.

Good luck fella.

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So it's ok for TR & the rest of his minions to bash me all they want but if I say anything I'm !@#$%ing Osama?

Don't denigrate the kids.
That is not what this site is about. Leave the young men out of your trivial pissin contests.

It is as simple as that.

quote:

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Originally posted by itsinthegame:
Don't denigrate the kids.
That is not what this site is about. Leave the young men out of your trivial pissin contests.

It is as simple as that.

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'Scuse me but can you please point out where ever denigrated ANY kids?

The denigration to the kids is for any of them reading some of the posts.

As a new member maybe this banter is normal. I suspect not. Especially when the head bottle washer put in his two cents.

I would expect when someone asks a question, you can volunteer to answer or choose not to. If someone has a top secret answer or a highly guarded trade secret, or for that matter a handed down family recipe, then just don't answer. It can be that simple.


About the predator or prey comment. The fact is the strongest critter in the jungle is neither.

Moral of the story.

Strive to have the class of an elephant even while the lowly jackals and hyenas scavenge for the road kill.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by SBK:
"The denigration to the kids is for any of them reading some of the posts."

denigrate
Pronunciation: 'de-ni-"grAt
Function: transitive verb
Etymology: Latin denigratus, past participle of denigrare, from de- + nigrare to blacken, from nigr-, niger black

1 : to cast aspersions on : DEFAME
2 : to deny the importance or validity of : BELITTLE

Not seeing any of the above in ANY of my posts.

"About the predator or prey comment. The fact is the strongest critter in the jungle is neither."

Don't fool yourself. Even Elephants get eaten when they're old, hurt, outnumbered etc.

Vodoo,

Don't get too literal or nit-picky with my comment or maybe others too. I don't and probably not many others do either, have the time to fully explain every last detail of what they mean.

Sorry I didn't clearify that I meant only healthy bull elephants, except during breeding season and certainly not during elephant hunting season or when poachers are around.

I'll try it one more time. I wasn't trying to get personal or make anyone feel like prey. My simple comment was that as a brand new member, I find the useless posts that jockey back in forth with underlying personal agendas probably as a result of past history denigrating to readers of all ages. If denigrating is a poor "transitice verb" then try classless.

I've read several posts by you that I've found quite useful and interesting. ( And also quite well written) I guess that is why I was dissapointed to see a few starting to denigrate.