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IMO, the Yankees are the only team that can truly afford to pay him his worth for 10 years at $30M/yr. I think he is a Yankee come this time next year. Don't know if it will be a trade sometime this year, or from free agency after the season.

And I think he is worth every penny. It will be a hard time for St. Louis fans, but they are awesome fans and after they understand what it may mean to the rest of the team if the Cardinals paid his rate, then they will accept it.
quote:
Originally posted by Backstop-17:
IMO, the Yankees are the only team that can truly afford to pay him his worth for 10 years at $30M/yr. I think he is a Yankee come this time next year. Don't know if it will be a trade sometime this year, or from free agency after the season.

And I think he is worth every penny. It will be a hard time for St. Louis fans, but they are awesome fans and after they understand what it may mean to the rest of the team if the Cardinals paid his rate, then they will accept it.

Nobody on the face of this earth is worth $30M/yr.
Especially an athlete.
Albert Pujols has been vastly underpaid averaging a little more than 8.5 million dollars a year for ten historic seasons. St Louis has held all the cards in most of the past years and it is now time to pay the piper. While it may be thought that the only team who can pay $30 million dollars for ten years (believed by many to be the level of contract it will take) is the New York Yankees I don't feel they will be players in that they are already tied up with a first baseman with a huge contract. All a team has to do to get Albert from the Cardinals is pay substantially more than St. Louis and that may not take $30 million dollars a year. The Cardinals may not go near 30m and may limit their offer to something like 25m to 28m for eight years. Conceivably, someone like the Angels or Rangers could step in and beat that offer. There will be no trade as he can block any trade.

I don't feel negotiations will really stop at this self imposed deadline but will be ongoing out of sight. If the Cardinals really want to sign him, they need to do it now as it will only be more expensive once he hits free agency. The Cardinals should have tried to sign him to an extension long ago and certainly should have taken care of him before Holliday. Truthfully, Albert is one of the very few players who has given every last penny of worth on his previous contracts. Not one off year, not one injury filled season,--just ten Hall of Fame seasons that you could stick in the middle of Lou Gehrig or Joe DiMaggio's numbers and never tell the difference. That is baseball greatness personified.
Pujols is not your standard run of the mill MLB superstar. The only thing greater than his talent is his character. His oldest daughter, is adopted and has down syndrome. He is very active in the community. The St. Louis Cardinals have known this time was coming and if they were planning ahead, they were saving money. Albert stays and compromises a little.
Albert Pujols has been in the league since 2001. The following is a list of statistical categories. In all of these categories, Albert finished in the top 10 in the league every single year, or led the league in these categories more than once.

MVP (3-time winner, 4-time runner up)
Wins Above Replacement (7-time 1st place)
Batting Average (1-time batting champ, .331 career)
On-Base % (1-time champion, .426 career)
Slugging % (3-time champion, .626 career)
OPS (3-time champion, 1.050 career)
Runs Scored (5-time champion)
Hits (1-time champion)
Total Bases (4-time champion)
Home Runs (2-time champion, 408 career)
RBI (1-time champion, 1230 career)
Extra Base Hits (4-time champion)
Runs Created (3-time champion)
OPS+ (3-time champion, 172 career)
Times on Base (4-time champion)
Intentional Walks (4-time champion, 236 career)
AB per HR (2-time champion, 14.1 career)

Statistically at the same point in their careers, Pujols is in line with players like Joe DiMaggio, Jimmie Foxx, Frank Robinson, Lou Gehrig, Mickey Mantle, Mel Ott, Eddie Matthews and Ken Griffey Jr. All of these players, with the exception of Griffey are enshrined in Cooperstown (and Junior will be a 1st ballot guy in a few years).

If Pujols continues this pace for several more years, he could go down as one of the greatest hitters of all time, right up there in conversations about Babe Ruth, Ted Williams and Willie Mays.

Am I saying he's worth $30+ million? No. But if anyone is, he's probably the guy.
Opinion: Pujols is the best player in MLB today, and probably for the next 5 years. After that, he will probably be a very good player, role player or DH in the AL.

Fact: He wants a 10 year deal. He is a better player than A-Rod every was, and A-Rod is making $25M per year. Pujols has been underpaid his whole career.

Fact: Very, very few teams (maybe 3 or 4) can afford to pay him what he thinks he is worth. There are a lot of very, very good 1st basemen in MLB right now. Supply and demand economic factors are not going to be in his favor.

Fact: Scott Boras is his agent. Scott Boras likes drama and he likes top dollar deals. He will do anything (yes, anything) for his clients.

Opinion: This is not going to end well for St Louis unless they put a crowbar to their wallet or get very creative. He will end up with a large market team or a team that doesn't mind paying a luxury tax for an overall competitive team. I can only think of a few....the usual suspects less one (Boston) as they just got Gonzalez. Also, Teixeria is signed for a few more years, and he is pretty darn good. Comapared to what Albert will be asking, Tex may be a value bargain.

fenwaysouth-

  • Pujols's agent is Dan Lozano, not Boras. Lozano also represents Jimmy Rollins, Nick Swisher, Michael Young, Joey Votto, Dallas Braden, JC Romero and Orlando Cabrera, among others. He left his previous firm (Beverly Hills Sports Council) last year to start his own agency.

  • Also, A-Rod's contract is going to yield him about $32 million in 2011. Over the life of the contract the Yankees will owe him a minimum of $275 million, with more depending on incentive based milestones (Ie: Career home runs).

    Not trying to be argumentative, just throwing some facts out there. I agree with everything else you stated. It will also be interesting to see if a team would really be willing to provide him with a 10 year deal. Even with his incredible consistency in production, that would mean the contract would run until he's 41 years old. The odds are against him that he could keep that same level of production to that age.
  • Last edited by J H
    I was surprised myself when I found that out also. Everyone has their reasoning for choosing who they choose. I'm sure its a comfort level...Albert's public image is as a wholesome family man, and perhaps Lozano appealed to some of the things Pujols values. Boras is a love 'em or hate 'em type of guy I think. He's a brash straight shooter who attempts to manipulate the system, but as you said, he will literally do anything for a client.
    Pujols has always stated that it isn't about the money. It's time for him to back that statement up. He is "supposedly" 31 years old. The Cardinals would be out of their mind to give him a 10 year guaranteed deal. He has a great 10 years in St. Louis and they were the best he will ever have. As a lifelong Cardinals fan, I say let him walk if he chooses to be unreasonable. $30 million a year will buy a lot of great pitching.
    quote:
    Pujols has always stated that it isn't about the money. It's time for him to back that statement up.


    I think he already has backed that up by his actions over the past several years. Realistically, without NY AND Boston creating a bidding war no one else is going to drive the price up in the neighborhood of what his agent is asking.
    Agreed that he is substantially underpaid and that he deserves an enormous contract. Is he worth 30 mil a season? I'd say no, more like 25. But, presuming he has 2-3 top years left in him, followed by 3-4 great years, and then a rapid decline on a year-by-year basis. It makes no sense to sign him to anything longer than a 7-year contract. He will not be worth 20+ mil a season in as little as 3-4 years, so why pay through the nose for a declining star? After 5-6 years, ideally, he moves to the AL and finish up his storied MLB as a DH but be considered a true Cardinal.
    quote:
    Originally posted by biggerpapi:
    quote:
    Originally posted by redbird5:
    Pujols will not be a Yankee. Tex is signed to a multi-year deal.


    I also wondered about how he'd fit in there because of Teixeira.

    Tex is great but Pujols is better.


    Agreed, but Tex is a better defensive 1B. They could share 1B/DH. Make for quite the lineup wouldn't you say, for a few years anyway. Remember the Evil Empire struck out on big name FAs this year. That doesn't sit well in the Bronx. I'm sure Pujols is first and foremost on their agenda. I believe that if he hits the market (he will), they will not be denied. They will outbid anyone, even themselves, at all costs to get him.
    Let's see...the two biggest spenders have Tex in New York and A-Gone in Boston. There's a very good chance Pujols won't be going to either franchise. After watching the MLB network, it appears that St Louis isn't anywhere near to reaching an agreement? I agree with J H, Albert isn't worth $30 million per year...but if anyone is, he's probably the guy when you look at the numbers he's put up the last ten years.

    The Cubs have new ownership, will they take a shot at Albert? You bet, and I'm sure that fans in Chicago would love to take Number 5 away from their rivals!

    I'm a Dodgers fan, and if it wasn't for our horrible ownership situation out here, I'd say that spending the money to bring Pujols to the west coast and putting him in Dodger Blue would be amazing!

    BUT...I wouldn't be surprised if he stays in RED, Angels Red that is! Arte Moreno isn't afraid to spend money. Pujols can play with the Halos and remain at first base for the next 5-6 years and naturally move over to the DH towards the end of his contract!

    We'll see what happens, but unless he signs with the Cardinals sometime during this season...he's gone, he won't sign with them once he's on the free agent market, JMO.
    Boy, 10 years is a long time, a pretty big risk for any club. Not too many are going to take that risk. Albert is the best hitter in baseball for sure but will he be a 30 million dollar man in 2021? I'm not even sure he will be able to effectively play 1st base at 41 although it isn't beyond the realm of possiblity.

    Look at Manny and his dropoff over just a couple of years. He is just 38 and his last two years have been ok at best. I just am not sure that King Albert can keep up that pace for that long.

    I can't see St. Louis offering longer than an 8 year contract. This isn't a big market organization and they never got where they were by spending money on deals like this.
    quote:
    Originally posted by biggerpapi:
    quote:
    Originally posted by Backstop-17:
    In comparitive terms to what others are being paid, he is.

    Oprah Winfrey is not worth $30M a year either in my opinion, but compared to her peers, she dwarfs that amount.


    Oprah dwarfs most of us.
    Or is that "eclipses us?" I'll bet you can't see the sun if she gets between you and the sun.
    The Sox and Yankees already have stud first basemen who won't want to DH. Pujols won't want to DH. I say he takes a small hometown discount rather then sign with the Cubs, Dodgers or Angels even if they back up a Brinks truck to his door.

    I believe community and winning are important to Pujols. This would dictate staying in Saint Louis. The numbers are so large his decision will be like Cliff Lee's ... personal quality destination over the largest offer.

    Right now it's about squeezing every last dollar out of the Cardinals.
    I am not really sure how I feel about the whole thing. He is definetly worth more than any other player now in the game, how do you place a price on that with today's economy.

    FWIW, AP went on record a few years ago saying it would not be about the money, but remaining with STL.

    Now here is a thought, if the best player in baseball can't get what he wants, what makes people think that when their sons are drafted they will get what they feel they are worth. crazy
    Pujols to the Royals! I know this post will get some laughs at first, but the Royals salary is projected to be in the 35 million range this season after 2 years of being in the 70 million range. They have cleared close to 25 million in salary with the trade of Grienke and the retirement of Meche.

    Now why would Pujols want to come to KC?
    1. He lived here and played HS ball here.
    2. His wife was born and grew up in KC.
    3. He comes back to KC every offseason to train with his mentor.
    4. He already owns a home in KC.
    5. KC has the number 1 ranked farm system in KC to put around him and compete during the length of the contract.

    The main problem with this idea is the owner of the Royals, he is cheap and does not seem to look in what the long term payoff would be in bringing Pujols to KC.
    Way too early to tell. As a lifelong Cardinal fan, I am disappointed that this is not taken care of, and AP will be a Cardinal for life. The uncertainty is unsettling.

    However, it is a game for recreation for us, it is a business for AP and the Cardinals. I don't really blame either side for the current position. AP has been severely underpaid during this current contract. He feels he should be recognized (paid) for the being the best player in the game. It is a valid point. The Cardinals got a steal. DeWitt was quoted from when the Cardinals were critized for signing him to this contract for overpaying for a young, but still unproven (only three years) player. Asked if he had any concerns about giving AP that contract,"I'm afraid it may not be long enough". The Cardinals do not want to overpay for future, and almost certainly, lower production over an extended contract length.

    At this point, I still hope that AP returns to the Cardinals. I think they can justify overpaying now for some of the past years, when looking at overall franchise operations/marketing etc. But they won't be negotiating against themselves when he hits free agency. It is possible that his AAV contract could exceed $30M, because someone else is waving that kind of money around. AP might be disappointed as well, if no other serious bidders materialize, ala Jeter. I believe the Cardinals will make a good offer to keep AP in STL when the market is set after the season.
    $30 million a year is just absurd, for anything. Are others overpaid? Sure, almost every corporate CEO out there, with salaries blessed by the Boards of Directors who are also overpaid, so it's a marriage of convenience.

    It's called "greed" and it is rampant in the business world. People will make excuses saying "why not take it if you can get it?", but ultimately as a society we tend to see flaws in some situations of greed but not others. If the target is one who otherwise appears to be a "good guy", we cut him a little slack (see most of the posts on this thread), but the predominant attitude tends to be to grab as much as you can while you can. Storing up for a rainy day is fine, but nobody-nobody- deserves $30,000,000 per year, which works out on a 52 week 40 hour basis to $14,423.08 per hour. Good work if you can get it.

    How refreshing it would be if Pujols actually had a conscience and said "You know what, I like St. Louis, St. Louis has been berry berry good to me, my family likes it, I don't really want to leave, and I don't need to bankrupt the organization to stay here. Give me $15 million a year for the next 10 years and my family will get by somehow."
    I find it funny that folks throw words around like "greed" when talking about Pujols, but isn't the other side of the argument to call billionaire owner Bill DeWitt "greedy"? Why is it "greed" on the part of the player, but not on the part of the owner? Isn't most of every dollar not given to Pujols going to go to the owner's pockets instead? We can comfort ourselves with the idea of that money going to other players or aspects of the organization, but you can bet the owner will pocket his share of the savings.

    We can say all day that no player is worth X. The simple fact is the market (or perceived market) will dictate the value of the player. Baseball is built with the owner's best interests in mind and things like the draft and six year's of player control screw the player over right off the bat. But nobody clamors for the players to make more. But as soon as free agency hits everybody thinks the player should make less.

    It is my opinion that Pujols has been vastly underpaid over the past ten years (ten of the best years any player has ever produced). He has made roughly $90M, or $9M per season. Great work if you can get it, but nothing approaching his worth. I'm not one to say that the Cards owe him extra b/c he has been underpaid (afterall, under his free will he did sign an extension in 2004 that took him through 2010 with a club option for 2011). But everyone thinks a player should give his team a "home team discount", but nobody every screams that an underpaid player should get a "home team bonus". Pujols has MORE than fulfilled his obligation to St. Louis and the Cardinals, and I hope he cashes in.

    Personally, I wouldn't go ten years on a player his age, but I don't think five to seven years at $30M per is unreasonable.
    Last edited by Emanski's Heroes
    Capitalism being the foundation of our economy by definition is a private owner paying the wages of an employee at the rate they agree upon based on his/her worth to the organization or business. Whether you are a CEO or a baseball player or a widget maker it is that bargaining agreement process that makes this country a place of opportunity. You can chose to be the employer or the employee. As long as the pay is not obtained through fraudulent actions the amount doesn't matter. Many of these CEO's and highly paid ballplayers become philanthropists giving huge amounts of their income to charity. These charitable gifts are not usually common knowledge because the nature of someone who would give is to give anonymously. So I don't begrudge anyone for their salary. They will have to account for what they did with all that influential money some day but not to us. I always marvel at the variety of ways to make a living in this great country and more often than not we prosper. Greed is the accumulation of things including money above and beyond which you can never properly use and the storage of such things so that no one else can benefit from them. Whether you make minimum wage or 30 million dollars, all are capable of greed.
    I always find it amazing that nobody criticises a movie star for making 20 million dollars per movie or a TV star from making 100,000 an episode or Tiger Woods or LeBron from making $100,000,000 a year for endorsing products they may not even use except that the product is given to them free, yet Pujols who gave his team incredible value for his pay is critcised when he tries to get his fair market share.

    Pay for baseball skills is not exponential--great, irriplaceable talent should get the vast amount of compensation. It is the guys who don't draw crowds, who don't really do anything good by ML standards, yet see their pay increased over and over due to the strongest union around and an arbitration process where the player almost can't lose that bothers me. Puljos is an incredibly special talent and must be compensated like one.

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