all the freshman playing varsity

At my sons HS, and probably with most schools, seniors are not jv eligible. When the final varsity cuts came about and there was a senior on the list the coach would meet with the senior expain that his pt would be very minimal but if he wanted a uniform it was his. Other cuts went to the jv.

During my sons 3 year varsity career there were about 6 seniors put in this situation, every one of them stayed, rode the bench, and were the best teammates you could find. Granted, our program numbers could afford to hang on to a couple extra players, but in the end program loyalty was the winner, and my bet is those 6 players will instill the same loyalty values to their kids.

It sure beats the resentment feeling of being cut.

quote:

During my sons 3 year varsity career there were about 6 seniors put in this situation, every one of them stayed, rode the bench, and were the best teammates you could find. Granted, our program numbers could afford to hang on to a couple extra players, but in the end program loyalty was the winner, and my bet is those 6 players will instill the same loyalty values to their kids.

I think that is great.if the parents and players accepted that role that is awesome. I have seen that work. I have also sen kids kept, not played and its a nightmare.I think it does depend on the parents and how they accepted the role as well.

quote:

I think that is great.if the parents and players accepted that role that is awesome.

What do the parent's have to do with this situation.

If your a player, and you accept it??
No you never accept it.
You do everything during practice to show the coach you deserve your chance.
Never accept it??

EH

quote:

Originally posted by fanofgame:
I think that is great.if the parents and players accepted that role that is awesome. I have seen that work. I have also sen kids kept, not played and its a nightmare.I think it does depend on the parents and how they accepted the role as well.

It's all up front before the season begins, and its the players choice. One player in this situation was actually voted by the team as one of the captains. Maybe because we are not a "hotbed", our neck of the woods sometimes thinks it's not all about winning, scholarships, and awards, but rather, it's about respect.

However, if the numbers were there, the picture may be different

our area is alot like rz's. not really large number's. but our little league has been very successful for about the last 5 or 6 years. our high school just won a state tittle in the I class. for years the little league parents were dreaming of years of hs trophy's. as we know the two don't relate to much. they are just now finding that out.

i don't see all freshman being a problem. your locked in with numbers for the 4 yrs,even with the few you lose to the dark side. and the younger kids will/should work hard to achieve what these freshman did.


what i do see is the parents will be the problem. the kids will either work harder or give up. the coach will hear it now, but won't really know for a few years if it helped or not.

quote:

What do the parent's have to do with this situation.

A lot. I have seen parents of kids who are role players try everything to bad mouthing starters, going to AD, principal to get HC fired etc.I have seen wonderful young men who at he time did not have the talent and were role players who were a great asset to team and loved that they were there.
You ask any coach if he wants to keep a kid that his parents and the kids give him grief the entire year because he wont start.
AS far as accepting it, thats not what I meant.
Anyway my brain is tired from everything coming out being analyzed. have a great weekend and season everyone.

Thats what I'm saying, The Parent's have no business getting involved in HS ball.
If your paying to play then maybe you can have a talk.
And I'm not so sure about that.
But your player has to stand on his own 2 feet.
Let them be the young Man you want them to become.
It won't happen if the parent's are fighting the battle for them.

EH

when i played LL a hundred years ago,i remember a parent questioning the coach about playing time. we had no everyone must play rules back then. it wasn't taken around the corner ,but right there where we all could hear.

the coach tried to explain that the player hadn't improved, wasn't really interested in playing. the parent wasn't really listening to him.

the coach say's look, :my son want's to be in the band but he doesn't play an instrument." the parent say's " what! why on earth would he want to be in the band if he can't play an instrument?" coach say's "exactley my point. why do you want your son to play more, when he can't play these instrument's ?" the kid stayed ,the parent left.


i think back on this quite often and i chuckle. get's to the point though. maybe some of these kids are getting a dose of reality? maybe they're getting the wrong end of the stick? only they really know. not mom or dad.

quote:

the kid stayed ,the parent left.

thats usually the way it works. good for the kid who stays

quote:

Thats what I'm saying, The Parent's have no business getting involved in HS ball.
If your paying to play then maybe you can have a talk.
And I'm not so sure about that.
But your player has to stand on his own 2 feet.
Let them be the young Man you want them to become.
It won't happen if the parent's are fighting the battle for them.

I think were saying the same thing.Unfortunatley not all parents stay out of it and ruin it for their kids.

The instrument analogy was actaully pretty good. lol

quote:

"My opinion on this situation is that the coach may have covered himself, but what good can come out of this in the next 4 years, if these 11 or 12 freshman have secured most of the varsity spots for 4 years. I can envision a lot of other kids saying "why even tryout", when the coaches club team has already secured spots for the next 4 years?

Exactly..That's why a coach would kill a baseball program with that mentality. Most kids would do something else. Why bother. As for the parents, I'm against them getting involved but somehow I get the sense when you screw over an entire roster of upperclassmen who paid their dues, it could set off a revolt from all the parents of the upperclassmen and pressure the AD to do something. Whether he/she would or wouldn't, who knows.

On my son's team, a number of seniors quit who made varsity as juniors because they didn't play. Most of them would've started their senior year. This actually opened the door for three sophomores to move up to varsity and win starting jobs late in the year. One played my son's position so he played another position when he started but the of other two one was a pitcher and the other filled a position that had problems most of the year and they made key comntributions in the playoffs.

While this situation is different from what this coach did, it goes to show what players mindsets can be in other situations when it comes to feeling like they got screwed or thsat it just isn't worth the waste of time. What I usually hear is seniors want to enjoy their last year and anything that causes unnecessary aggravation, they won't be part of it.

What I feel will be a problem in the future.
Coach will not bring up the underclassmen in the future.
They will languish on JV until there senior year.
Coach will not bring up a more talented player.
This is his team for his son's sake??
And the coach will have blinders on for the next 3 years.

EH

All he has to do is start another 11U travel team this year. Problem solved. Of course the other question is does he have another son who is 11U.

The coach will play the best 9 and the next best off the bench to fill up his roster of 18+/-. Does not matter how old they are.

As a side note a Varsity team of mostly Freshmen regardless of how good they are would get creamed out here on the West Coast. We have 4 Soph playing Varsity and we are considered very young.

What are the odds that 11 freshmen would be the best 11 players in one high school in a baseball hotbed like south Florida? While there are extremely talented 14U and 15U select teams in the state and in that area, they will usually come from all over a city or area and not be come from one eighth grade class.

It would seem logical that if a school has that great a concentration of talent in just their freshman class, they would have a similarly talented crop of upperclassmen as well. Unless this particular district has some sort of open enrollment, and these kids all opted to attend a particular high school with no baseball program to speak of, I'd have to think that the ball players at that school are not limited to the class of 2012.

I can also concede there could be a level of "senioritis", but even if that group had one foot out the door, would they have poisoned the attitude of all the talented juniors and sophomores who would be looking for their chance to shine? I doubt it; not with the ballplayers I know or have seen.

While anything is possible, it defies credulity to think that the only source of baseball talent at that school would be found among the 14 and 15 year olds, and that no one else would be unable to crack a lineup composed of pre-pubescent kids.

If this coach was judging things like the "attitude" of the frosh versus the seniors, and leadership, or lack thereof, by the upperclassmen, then I'd venture to guess that he didn't ask his panel of experts to spend much time focusing on something objective, like baseball skills. If this is the outcome the coach wanted, why pretend to cloak it in the imprimatur of third parties he selected to be his proxy?

quote:

in the end program loyalty was the winner, and my bet is those 6 players will instill the same loyalty values to their kids.

As it should be, in my opinion. Shouldn't we role model loyalty to our kids? Isn't this what sports are supposed to be about? Sadly, too many "bad" things have occurred in sports over the past years . . . even Michael Phelps (a big surprise to me)! I am glad he must fight to get his reputation back among sponsors, etc. It shows there is accountability (even in athletes) to our boys (and girls)!
Was he loyal to his fans and his sponsors by using drugs as a very public national hero?

Loyalty is priceless in our society, right? They learn it as children in the home, as teens on the ball field from their coaches, and they hopefully follow these role models to show loyalty in their own families as they become adults. Then, they begin the cycle over again. Maybe I'm an idealist

MOM


Don't make others what they may not want to be or what you want them to be

quote:

Don't make others what they may not want to be or what you want them to be

What????????

Last year, we finished 2nd in the district with an all-freshman MIF. Two seniors quit, but they had been non-starters anyway. At least one parent was upset because he thought it was his son's turn to be a starter, based solely on the fact that he was a senior. This year, so far we are 2-1 with an all-sophomore MIF. They are already a lot of fun to watch because they have such great chemistry, and the longer they work together and succeed, the harder it is going to be for someone else to break in. If a better player transfers in, no doubt somebody gets bumped. But as long as they are the best middle infielders on the team, coach will play them, regardless of how old they are.

In the original post about this high school, it was reported that these freshman had great chemistry, so they looked good. What happens at the next level, when they don't have each other after playing together for all these years. Does their game diminish when they aren't together? I've seen players that only perform well in their comfort zone. When they aren't in their comfort zone they blame a different coach, they blame a different catcher, they blame chemistry. I think in the long run, the best thing for this "group" would be to break them up this year as needed to benefit the entire high school. Only bring up a few freshmen to fill a few holes at varsity, then do the same for the JV team. It will make them stronger in the end.

I agree with NOOC,

There is no way that Freshman in Florida are going to out produce upper classmen across the board. This Coach had an agenda; he wanted his Travel Club players as starters and created an opportunity to provide himself with cover to accomplish his goal.

Players that have worked hard and earned a Varsity spot in previous years should not have to be cut to make way for an incoming crop of talented prima donnas. They may not have been prima donnas before the coach made this move, but they sure are now.

It is incredulous to me that no Sophomores, Juniors or Seniors were sufficiently talented enough to start and contribute.

quote:

Don't make others what they may not want to be or what you want them to be

My interpretation of this quote(just my interpretation) is that Phelps might not want to be this huge role model and maybe we shouldn't hold a kid in such high esteem.He is a kid.

One school in our league only allows Juniors and Seniors to play at the varsity level. I don't like this rule, but after reading about this Florida coach, I can see why the school is forced to make these kinds of decisions.

At our school with the previous coach (we have a new coach), 1 Freshman player per year was permitted to play Varsity. Currently there are no Freshman playing varsity in our program. The JV team is competetive.

quote:

My interpretation of this quote(just my interpretation) is that Phelps might not want to be this huge role model and maybe we shouldn't hold a kid in such high esteem.He is a kid

Then he shouldn't have accepted $5 million of endorsements from Speedo, VISA, Hilton, etc. He should be held accountable if for no other reason than that he has put himself in a position of role model to youth, as do all high-profile athletes, movie stars, etc. Part of the responsibility. My responsibility as a mother is to hold my kids accountable, and my oldest kids are held accountable as role models for my youngest.

These are strictly my own opinions concerning parents/coaches and other people in the public eye or who put themselves in positions of influence over children (inc. teenaged ones)- I have no intentions of enforcing my values on anyone unless it involves my own children.

I thought this was a thread about Freshman players replacing upperclassmen Varsity players...So Sorry...

Sorry- Like most conversations, they sometimes take different turns. My bad

quote:

Does their game diminish when they aren't together?

I can only speak to one half of this MIF combo, and for that one half, the answer is no. In fact, 2B's game gets better in the summer because the summer team is better and the competition is better. But for the duration of the HS season, they are definitely fun to watch.

Our school is small, so players who can contribute at the varsity level get moved up quickly.

Another thing to think about is this. The seniors that quit our team were lifelong rec ball players. The underclassmen moving up are seasoned travel ball players. There is a huge difference in Florida. Some of the younger players may not be as big or as strong as the older players, but they are for the most part more savvy, and more serious. And just better.

"Where will the baseball program be in five years after all the prospective baseball players give up and play other sports? I'd say years of rebuilding the program will be required. Is the coach retiring or moving on after four years. I smell a rat."

The question doesn't have to refer to Freshman only! Why could it not be all players who are not starting. They could see they would not start and choose to play other sports.