American Legion Baseball

I have found that the level of competition varies alot from area to area. In PA, it's pretty competitive. Our general area has alot of 19 year old college players. I know that that's not the case in MD, however. Hopefully you will hear from someone from IL on the subject.

I don't believe there is any minimum age (my son played at 13), but teams in our area are mostly made up of rising juniors to 19 year olds. This is referred to as the Senior Legion. There is Junior level also, for the 13-15 year olds.

Playoffs are held at the local level, on up to a national championship. In our state, there is also a very nice, and free, statewide showcase series.

chickpea, try this.

Harry Seiple...hseiple@comcast.net

American Legion baseball is open to 15 to 19 year olds.
The head coach of the team will contact the players he wants to have on the team. There are only certain schools that the team can draft from. Example St.Charles Post 342 can only use players from the St.Charles schools, Geneva,Batavia and some schools in Aurora. They play 25 games a year with weekend trips. At the end of the season they play in a national tourney. I would check with your High School coach.

There really is no minimum age requirement as my son started a game last summer as a 14yo prior to turning 15 in the middle of June. Nevertheless, what separates American Legion from club baseball is that Legion teams are bound by some pretty stringent rostering requirements. For example, Illinois is divided up into 5 geographical divisions with all but Cook county (Division 1) being further divided up into districts. Within each district or division, every Legion team has a specific boundary in which to pull players from which includes high school and residence...with the rare exception of a release or waiver. Further, for each team's geographical boundary, Legion teams may draw from those high schools within as long as the total enrollment does not exceed 5,000 students from the 10th through 12th grades. Thus, there will be some Legion teams who draw from 5 or 6 smaller schools compared to others who may only draw from 1 or 2 larger schools. Rather complicated but that's a brief summary of the rostering issues.

At the conclusion of league play, each division conducts a tournament to determine it's Division Champion. After that, the Legion State Tournament consists of the 5 Division champs plus the host team. After that, the State Champs move on to the National tournament.

As for quality, Legion is generally a step above high school varsity and on par with upper-level club ball with exceptions. However, Legion has a Jan.1 cutoff compared to the May 1 cutoff for club travel. As a result, quite a few 19-year-olds are playing Legion baseball which has been a terrific experience for my son.

Hope that helps.

Bravescoach-

Are there any legion teams currently playing out of Will County?

Also, does anyone know if any of the legion teams have current high school coaches? Is that even allowed?

Yes there is a team out of Will County. I manage the Sr. POST 1080 Team. We play out of Plainfield Cetral and Plainfield South H.S. You can contact me at bill_sully@sbcglobal.net for more information.

quote:

Originally posted by Hit it hard:
Bravescoach-

Also, does anyone know if any of the legion teams have current high school coaches? Is that even allowed?

It is allowed and, in fact, is becomming more of a trend. Here in Cook County, the Wilmette Waves (est. 2000) is a New Trier-based team coached by Mike Napolean and Glenview (est. 2008) is a Glenbrook South-based team coached by Bob Rosinski...both of whom are the respective high school varsity coaches. I'm sure there are other examples within the other 4 Divisions.

Ed Toledo from Niles North coaches a Legion team that is a NN/ Maine South combo team.

Congratulations to Mark Payton on leading the Legion team (which included Bryce Harper) in HR at the USA Baseball Tournament of Stars.

Link to final team stats

Kevin Koziol (AABC) and Jeff Jackson (USA Stars) also played in the tournament.

quote:

Originally posted by Ratboy:
Congratulations to Mark Payton on leading the Legion team (which included Bryce Harper) in HR at the USA Baseball Tournament of Stars.

Link to final team stats

Kevin Koziol (AABC) and Jeff Jackson (USA Stars) also played in the tournament.

What Legion team is that?

Thank you all for your responses. Good information here.

It is, I am assuming, a "Legion All-Star" team that played against all-star teams from the other organizations.

I think UIC hosted this event several years ago, Mariners draft pick Ryan Anderson was the big name at that time for that year.

My congratulations to the Elk Grove Legion team who recently captured the Cook County crown and are headed to State. With Wijas and Wojcik on the mound, wouldn't surprise me if they took the State crown as well. Those two boys are outstanding pitchers and were a pleasure to compete against. At the same time, and as the host team, Palatine will still be a force to be reckoned with...should be a great State Tournament filled with terrific baseball.

Watch out for Post 158

quote:

Originally posted by FastballDad:
Watch out for Post 158

Which Division are they representing? Not up on my Post #s.

Braves, that's barrington...I think they are the 2nd Division Champs.

quote:

Originally posted by FastballDad:
Braves, that's barrington...I think they are the 2nd Division Champs.

Thanks FastballDad...you are correct. Congrats to them as well. Should be a great State Tournament with Barrington, Palatine, Elk Grove, Mattoon, Rock Island, and Belleville.

Palatine wins American Legion State Title, 4-3 over Belleville. Congratulations to them as they move forward to Appleton Wisconsin for the midwest regional.

Congrats to Palatine on the title lots of very good players on that team.

One side note while following the tournament. Any thoughts on the handling of some of the pitchers? The one from Belleville threw a complete game on Wed 145 pitches then threw the game on sat for 128 pitches.
Palatine threw a complete game wed 137 pitches and then 95 more on Sat. The other Palatine pitcher threw a complete game on Fri and came back Sat for just over 2 innings.

Very common practice, not only in that tournament (which I have watched for years), but the likes of the CWS, etc.

Only answer is that the coaches are total idiots who only care about winning. This is the only logical answer.

Isn't that what a team tournament is about? All of which involved want to win (Coaches/Parents/Players)etc.

Yes, of course that is what it is about. Just not at the expense of a baseball players arm. Would you find it acceptable if a coach were to pitch your son that many pitches and then pitch him again with such a short down time?

Hopper, it is all situational, The Johnson kid is going to school next year only, last opportunity to move forward in the sport, tremendous student (Perfect ACT), these are 18/19 year olds, knowing Matt he probably said give me the ball skip.

quote:

Originally posted by Playball2:
...knowing Matt he probably said give me the ball skip.

The responsibility for using players properly and not putting them at undue risk lies with the coach, and the coach only. It cracks me up each time someone wants to use the excuse, "hey, the kid wanted to, so I let him". What a bunch of cowardly garbage.

The essence of being a man is standing up and admitting your actions, whether they be right or wrong, and taking full responsibility for them. The essence of a coward is to try and divert that attention away from your actions and refocus it on an innocent and ignorant person.

If you want to throw a kid for 140 pitches and then throw him on two days rest for another game, stand up and say, "I did it, and I think it's the right thing to do, and I'd do it again". Then be judged as the shortsighted usury abusive person you are.

"Situationally we decided it was in my and the teams best interest to throw Johnny again. Johnny wanted the ball, and you've just got to love a kid that has that kind of heart and desire to help his team win. How can I, as the coach, tell Johnny no? The right thing to do in that situation is ignore all the experts in orthopedic surgery and give Johnny the start. I must have been right, we won the game." How can you not root for a coach like that?

quote:

Originally posted by Playball2:
these are 18/19 year olds

NO THEY'RE NOT...let's not exaggerate the circumstances here, these are 15 to 18 year olds, with an occasional 19 year old as the exception. Don't make them out to be emancipated adults capable of critical thinking, they're not. That's what coaches are there for, and these coaches failed at execution of their responsibilities. It takes a big man to look down the barrel of defeat and not jeopardize his players health...some simply aren't up to the task.

Hmmm

I don't know if it is always the wrong thing to pitch a kid in that situation. Yes, if a kid throws the curve too soon or pitches too many innings they will likely have arm problems when they are pitching later in their careers.

But in a case where there is no career, and perhaps the instance that is being examined is "the career" for the pitcher. This kid is apparently not going to pitch in college or as Playball said only one more year. If that is the case he need not worry about what happens down the road in a few years.

It's kind of like the argument over whether a 12 year old should throw a spinner curveball to win the championship because he can't get the fastball over 50 MPH. I'm not so sure you need to be worrying too much about whether or not his arm will hold up when he is 24. He won't be pitching when he is 24, probably not when he is 15. Yes if you are a legitmate prospect or your intent is to play as long as possible you need to conform to these standards, they are proven.

I think that most forget that the vast majority of these players are not going on to some higher level where they would regret having thrown 145 pitches in a game. Again, it sounds likely that (by choice) that this could well be the highlight of this pitcher's career. Food for thought.

quote:

Don't make them out to be emancipated adults capable of critical thinking, they're not. That's what coaches are there for, and these coaches failed at execution of their responsibilities.

CPLZ, these are older young men, who should be able to make a decision about how they feel, I understand your position, but be careful about the pre-suppositions. Lastly, the world is full of 18 year olds making critical decisions on behalf of the world.

Playball,
You're right, I jumped the gun and thought HS and not Legion...they are a year older than I had stated...however, that single year does not exonerate the coach from his duties as responsible adult decision maker.

I'm sorry, but the excuse that they aren't going to go further in baseball is not a valid reason to risk permanent injury requiring surgery to repair. Having had my shoulder operated on twice before the age of 18, and seeing the residual effects now at 50, where cortisone and naproxen are staples for regular, albiet daily discomfort, living, is enough evidence for me that the sins we commit early can haunt long after the activity has passed.

We either use our bodies in a responsible manner or we don't. For kids, that responsible use lies in the hands of educated coaches. The irresponsibility arises when that education is ignored and permanent damage is needlessly risked.

I agree CP - talk to my 24 year old son who's had surgery twice and still has pain daily just trying to work and live. And maybe some day he'll have a kid of his own that he wants to play catch with. Not gonna happen unless he learns to throw with his other arm.

It's our one regret - we let the boys pitch too much, too early and too often for their own good. And we were careful - fast balls and change ups only until high school, but it didn't matter. It's the repetitive motion which leads to injury. I think it's the exceptional kid who plays ball WITHOUT injury anymore.

Take care of your kid's arm - he may never throw another pitch, but that doesn't mean he won't be using his limbs for other stuff! My son can't even hug me with both arms - it hurts too much to raise his arm that high. Tell me THAT doesn't matter. Oh, but he did win lots of games for his coaches over the years.

Don't be stupid like we were. Leave the glory for the other guy.

my3,

Exactly my point, thank you for giving us a personal example of what can happen when a young man's arm is overused even if he will never return to baseball in a competitive situation. As you pointed out unless something changes, he will not be able to play catch with his own child or ever be able to throw batting practice if he or she decides to play ball. That is truly a shame and leaves a tear in my eye when I read of such things all because a coach "has" to win a game no matter what the cost.

Getlemen, I truly understand your position and am in the practice of counting pitches and structuring bullpens, etc. However, while I follow a strict regimen had a kid two years ago breakdown in his junior year and sat, with rehab worked himself back to throwing his senior year. Broke down again, had the arm re-evaluated, two doctors told him that he would not injure the arm further and that he had a choice between surgery or throwing so long as he could tolerate the pain. He chose to throw, stating "I am not missing my senior year", he knew he would not throw at the next level. Today, he continues to throw long toss routinely, has yet to have the surgery and his arm has responded. Was the toughest call I ever had to make until he asked me to see the experience through his eyes.

quote:

Originally posted by Playball2:
two doctors told him that he would not injure the arm further

This is a completely different situation than using a a healthy player and risking permanent injury and surgery from abuse.