Announcing commitment on social media

@TPM posted:

We have a friend that I have been helping in understanding the recruiting process.

His son is a senior, they live here in Florida, attends a well known program, an honor student, high test scores, plays for a very good travel program.

He does not fit the physical profile that most coaches prefer.

With that being said, upon my advice, he began to concentate on Juco and D2 programs in state and today received a walk on opportunity to a D2, with scholarship $$ in the spring of 2025.

He received advice  to post on social media that HC from XYZ offered him an opportunity to walk on in the fall.  He was told by someone that coaches that had an interest would get word and more than likely  offer with $$$ before signing day.

I told him if other coaches had been interested they would have offered months ago. Accept the offer if he wants, but do not post on social media.

Not sure if I gave the right advice. I do not know this particular coach, who is relatively new to FL,  have heard he is very good.

Any advice?

You provided good advice. Whoever suggested that posting about a walk on offer would generate a money offer from a different school offered bad advice - and they don’t understand how college baseball recruiting works.

I think it is great advice TPM.  Posting on social media with the intent to better the offer is not a great way to start a college baseball career.

After all the i's are dotted and t's crossed, then posting on social media to thank those that have helped in the journey and commit to the program is the best way (and only reason) in my opinion.

@adbono posted:

You provided good advice. Whoever suggested that posting about a walk on offer would generate a money offer from a different school offered bad advice - and they don’t understand how college baseball recruiting works.

I know baseball is very different from football and basketball and people don't want to believe it.  I have a close friend who's son did that exact move, in football.   A P5 coach gave him permission to post he received a PWO offer from the school.  He parlayed that into a full ride at a FCS school.

That being said, baseball kids only announce commitments, not offers.  If they do, they are publicly shamed. Which is crazy because every football and basketball kid posts every visit and offer.

Thanks everyone. @Master P, there are a few other programs interested that have had interest including Juco, which I think is a better option to play as a freshman.

There was no money offered because with Florida bright futures $$ and pre pay room and board in FL it would cost him for meal plan only. Big issue is that like everywhere else freshman opportunities are getting hard to find.

@Master P posted:

I know baseball is very different from football and basketball and people don't want to believe it.  I have a close friend who's son did that exact move, in football.   A P5 coach gave him permission to post he received a PWO offer from the school.  He parlayed that into a full ride at a FCS school.

That being said, baseball kids only announce commitments, not offers.  If they do, they are publicly shamed. Which is crazy because every football and basketball kid posts every visit and offer.

There is a good reason that it’s frowned on for baseball recruits to post about offers when it’s accepted (although obnoxious IMO) with football and basketball recruits. Football and basketball are head count sports. They provide revenue to the school and are able to offer full scholarships to all key members of their teams (well in excess of that for football). Baseball is in a different category. It is an equivalency sport - which by definition is a cash drain. Baseball has a limited number of scholarships and those are chopped into pieces. Because scholarships are limited baseball counts on contributions from non scholarship athletes. A walk on offer in baseball can be (but isn’t always) the best a school may be able to offer a player they really want. When a baseball recruit posts on social media about an offer the perception is that he is trying to use the post as leverage to secure a better offer. Whether that is the intent or not, it will be viewed that way. And it will 100 times out of 100 piss off the coach that extended the offer. Sometimes to the point of the offer being rescinded. So it’s not worth the risk of losing an offer on the off chance that posting about it may generate something else. Baseball just doesn’t work like that.

My calling it "crazy" I didn't mean baseball should be like the other sports. Its just always fascinated me the different recruiting cultures of all the sports.

I know of a local D2 basketball program who tells every recruit that if you post the offer, its automatically rescinded.  They ONLY want commitments posted.  They are also a top 25 program.  

I mentioned again to dad this morning, don't say anything on social media until a decision is made.

Just to clarify, the question is about announcing an offer (not a commitment) on social media, right?  Just confirming bec the title says "announcing commitment".

Like some mentioned here, I've always wondered why other sports announces offers on social media.  I personally much prefer baseball's culture where it's not done this way (although I won't be surprised if this changes later on).

What I've been told is that college baseball is a small community.  The moment the first offers comes, other coaches will know somehow and that could open the door for other coaches to offer (either they have been interested but waiting on the sidelines, or learning of the offer brought the kid to their attention).  I'm sure the travel/HS coach plays a part in making sure that their college contacts learn of this offer through back channels.

@atlnon

Walk on opportunity. Maybe money next season. Player wants to post on social media his commitment to walk on, thinking he would get a real offer.

Oh, that's even worse.  This means he already accepted the walk on offer (and "committed") already?  What I'm reading is that he's not really committed since his goal for posting the "commitment" is to get other better offers?

@atlnon posted:

Oh, that's even worse.  This means he already accepted the walk on offer (and "committed") already?  What I'm reading is that he's not really committed since his goal for posting the "commitment" is to get other better offers?

No he did not committ to the program as yet. He wants to announce he received a walk on offer.

Son committed to a walk on offer. He posted after he committed, but didn't say it was a walk on. Just that he had committed to the program. The details were no one's business (and he wasn't trolling for additional offers either).

@adbono posted:

There is a good reason that it’s frowned on for baseball recruits to post about offers when it’s accepted (although obnoxious IMO) with football and basketball recruits. Football and basketball are head count sports. They provide revenue to the school and are able to offer full scholarships to all key members of their teams (well in excess of that for football). Baseball is in a different category. It is an equivalency sport - which by definition is a cash drain.

Not exactly!

Women's gymnastics, tennis and volleyball are headcount sports. I'll go out on a limb to say these sports do not cover their expenses at any college, with the recent, notable exception of LSU gymnastics.

Baseball and softball are revenue-generators at many colleges and income-generators at a handful.

But baseball has long been kneecapped by the NCAA in terms of scholarships because (1) the top 15 FBS schools control the NCAA and (2) the NCAA derives 80% of their revenue from March Madness.

The goal of football's 85 "headcount" full tuition scholarships is to make football the most attractive path for talented middle school and HS athletes, esp when compared to baseball. "Uneven" is great documentary that explores this purposeful distortion: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7cKh4fo6Bg

And while the woefully inadequate 11.7 equivalency scholarships is the most glaring example of the NCAA's corrupt intent, there are many other distortions which favor basketball and especially football at the expense of baseball.

For instance, guess which sport is the only one allowed by the NCAA to

- have an unlimited # of coaches

- have multiple color-shirt rules (red, green, grey, blue)

- provide their student trainers and managers with any extra, unused scholarships

- have the lowest scholarship : player ratio

"bUt fOOtbAll GenerAtes rEvenUe"

Yeah, well, so does baseball. And the WCWS has had more viewers than the MCWS for the last several years. In some years, a million more. But college football is on TV nearly year-round, good luck finding a rerun D1 baseball game in December.

It's turtles all the way down.

@SpeedDemon posted:

Baseball and softball are revenue-generators at many colleges and income-generators at a handful.

This is pre-pandemic (2019), but it says:  "There are 299 Division I baseball programs. Though specific figures were not available, an NCAA spokesman estimated less than 10% of them turn a profit."  That would be fewer than 30.

https://talkbusiness.net/2020/...ecord-revenue-total/

@anotherparent posted:

This is pre-pandemic (2019), but it says:  "There are 299 Division I baseball programs. Though specific figures were not available, an NCAA spokesman estimated less than 10% of them turn a profit."  That would be fewer than 30.

https://talkbusiness.net/2020/...ecord-revenue-total/

Thanks for the article @anotherparent.

I'd give a buffalo nickel to know who & how those 30 programs are turning a profit.  My first inclination was the P5 schools but that may not be the case as the article mentioned Florida, Texas Tech and others clearly in the red while having success getting to the CWS.

The article was written (2020) a few years ago before all the recent changes for player mobility and compensation which probably adds to the ledger's expense column for present day programs.

Again, I'd like to know the formula for turning a profit in D1 college baseball.  It appears to be very elusive, but some folks have figured it out.

I am sure that there are programs that have figured it out, it's now 2024.

To add to my comment, it's more than likely that baseball programs don't turn a profit. I believe every sport in a school contributes to the annual fund and the Athletic Director awards each sports projected annual budget.

@anotherparent posted:

This is pre-pandemic (2019), but it says:  "There are 299 Division I baseball programs. Though specific figures were not available, an NCAA spokesman estimated less than 10% of them turn a profit."  That would be fewer than 30.

https://talkbusiness.net/2020/...ecord-revenue-total/

Thanks!

I'm surprised it's as high as 30. Would have guessed it was more like 10 - 15.

Would be nice to know how many generate revenue. I bet it's hundreds.

@TPM posted:

I am sure that there are programs that have figured it out, it's now 2024.

To add to my comment, it's more than likely that baseball programs don't turn a profit. I believe every sport in a school contributes to the annual fund and the Athletic Director awards each sports projected annual budget.

Exactly.

And it’s not like NIL money is coming from the universities…

It also makes no sense that college sports are expected to turn a profit. I mean, great if they do, but does the physics dept turn a profit? Is the undergraduate business school or fine arts dept expected to generate millions in income each year?

Esp if the players are expected to be students first, athletes second, measuring a college sport based on its ability to generate profits makes no sense.

@SpeedDemon posted:

does the physics dept turn a profit? Is the undergraduate business school or fine arts dept expected to generate millions in income each year?

Yes, yes, and yes.  They are expected to do this at many schools.  In the form of grants, or in numbers of students taking their classes, or alumni donations.  And those are academic departments.

College sports, in theory, exist to allow students to have fun, get exercise, learn leadership, etc.  I.e. the D3 model.  What they have become in D1 is not that.  So, why are universities paying huge amounts for these extra-curriculars that are not the money sports?

I wouldn't be surprised if the MLB is giving them money.  Could you imagine if 90% of the schools did away with baseball because "It wasn't turning a profit?"  there would be no more baseball as we know it.

@SpeedDemon posted:

Exactly.

And it’s not like NIL money is coming from the universities…

It also makes no sense that college sports are expected to turn a profit. I mean, great if they do, but does the physics dept turn a profit? Is the undergraduate business school or fine arts dept expected to generate millions in income each year?

Esp if the players are expected to be students first, athletes second, measuring a college sport based on its ability to generate profits makes no sense.

I benefited from the D1 athletic scholarship model. Both kids benefitted. But what started out as a couple of Princeton and Rutgers guys arguing in a bar over beers has turned into an absurd, corrupt model.

@anotherparent posted:

Yes, yes, and yes.  They are expected to do this at many schools.  In the form of grants, or in numbers of students taking their classes, or alumni donations.  And those are academic departments.

College sports, in theory, exist to allow students to have fun, get exercise, learn leadership, etc.  I.e. the D3 model.  What they have become in D1 is not that.  So, why are universities paying huge amounts for these extra-curriculars that are not the money sports?

Nice try, but no.

While an individual lab or dept may apply for grants, get them, and then use the money for basic research, this is not recorded as revenue. And no research facility turns a profit, nor are they expected to. In almost all cases, researchers are also required forfeit any new IP to the university, which pushes the profit motive even further away.

Donor-directed funds to support basic research or help with a capital campaign are also not recorded as revenue. And no donor seeks capital appreciation or a paid dividend from their donation. If they did, it would not be a donation!

Tuition is recorded as revenue, since services are provided in exchange for payment. But academic departments aren’t expected to turn a profit based on classroom education…what would be the mechanism for doing so?

The NFL’s and NBA’s decision to outsource their minor leagues, along with the associated revenue and profits, to colleges across the country has been an absolute bonanza for the schools. But with no obligation to treat the participating athletes as anything but students and seeking to protect their increasingly large, media-driven revenue stream, the schools created a fig leag called the NCAA. The NCAA in turn created 10,000,000 rules and multiple divisions to ensure the free labor and subjugation of the students, into perpetuity.

Because we’ve all grown up watching college football and basketball become bigger and bigger businesses ie major revenue and income generators, and because the colleges have heavily promoted the virtue of such arrangements for so long, it seems normal to us to expect all college sports to generate revenue and turn a profit if they can.

But capitalism has never been a part of academia and looking at the way the non-athletic parts of the university operate make that clear.


The anomaly that is the NCAA is rapidly deteriorating right now because its foundational principle was always unstable, based on the lie that college students participating in intercollegiate athletics are nothing more than students, while the parts of the university that sponsor and oversee them are righteous, profit-seeking enterprises.

Colleges do not exist to generate profits.

Student-athletes are employees.

The NCAA is a corrupt cartel.

The courts are just now righting the long-standing problems in college athletics.

So tell your sons to go ahead and post their offers on social media if they want. They have the freedom and agency to do so, take advantage.

Colleges absolutely do look at the profitability of its academic programs. That’s why some majors get cut when times are tough and the forecast doesn’t look good for increased student interest (tuition) to fund the programs. Of course, many do operate at a loss on paper but because they bring in some other value (uniqueness, prestige, donor interest, future value of the IP they generate, etc.).

I definitely think more D1s will convert to D3 (like Hartford) when push comes to shove on cutting academics vs extra curriculars.

@wildcat posted:

Colleges absolutely do look at the profitability of its academic programs. That’s why some majors get cut when times are tough and the forecast doesn’t look good for increased student interest (tuition) to fund the programs. Of course, many do operate at a loss on paper but because they bring in some other value (uniqueness, prestige, donor interest, future value of the IP they generate, etc.).

I definitely think more D1s will convert to D3 (like Hartford) when push comes to shove on cutting academics vs extra curriculars.

Sure - colleges look at revenue in the form of tuition when they decide what classes to offer. Of course. They can’t operate without money!

But revenue and profit are not the same thing. And no academic center consistently turns a profit, nor are they expected to.

Which highlights how weird college football and basketball are.

These two sports are large, profit-driven entertainment businesses that use nearly-free labor, housed in an academic setting.  Applying the metrics of businesses such as these to the rest of campus, in order to justify the existence of the rest of campus, is a distortion born of an unholy marriage.

I agree that the current situation is unsustainable. Will be interesting to see what shakes out when colleges are forced to revenue-share with the athletes. Can’t imagine all of them will continue to maintain the expensive staff and facilities and travel costs of D1 if their football and basketball revenue is cut in say, half.

@SpeedDemon wrote, “So go ahead  and tell your sons to post their offers on social media if they want. They have the freedom and the agency to do so, take advantage.”

As it relates to college baseball recruiting, this is horrible advice. And I have explained why in a previous post. Just because you can do something doesn’t mean you should. You can drive a car with your feet if you want to. That doesn’t make it a good idea.

@SpeedDemon posted:

But revenue and profit are not the same thing. And no academic center consistently turns a profit, nor are they expected to.

They certainly do take in revenue from research grants - it's called overhead.  At research universities, in fields that offer grants for research, faculty are very much expected to bring in grants.

Anyway, this has nothing to do with whether or not to announce a baseball offer on social media.

@SpeedDemon

Thanks for turning this topic into another one of your angry rants against the NCAA.

This topic is about posting offers on social media - or not. Assuming that the goal is to play college baseball it only stands to reason that you wouldn’t want to do something that would reduce the chance of that happening.

I read the last post by @SpeedDemon before it was deleted. Paraphrasing from memory it said (among other things) : “The times they are a changin’. Young athletes have a lot of power. The oldheads that think they control this board are gonna find out.”

So much to unpack there, but I will start with this. What dictates how things operate in any industry are market conditions. In amateur baseball there are more good players than there are roster spots. This is especially true at the college level. That means supply exceeds demand. And not by a little. By a mile. That means the market conditions overwhelmingly favor the schools. That’s why they continue to get away with all the things that go on that make it a challenge to get recruited, make a roster, and actually get on the field to play college baseball. No coach  wants a clubhouse lawyer, a radical, or an activist on his team. Baseball is a team sport and players that put themselves before the team are a cancer. They kill team chemistry. And good team chemistry is essential for a team to reach its potential. Players that promote themselves over the team don’t get recruited - unless they are a superstar. Baseball parents that promote individuality over team are setting their kids up for epic failure. As a parent I believe that you should empower your kids in a way that will help them be successful. There is a lot of good advice on this board about how to do that. Since we still enjoy free speech (to some extent) there is also some occasional bad advice. It’s important to be able to discern the difference. A “me first” attitude is for individual sports. Not team sports.

So happy that I missed the reference about the "oldheads".

I have no issue about a player (any sport) posting on SM regarding their commitment. If SpeedDemon had paid attention to the original post, I asked if it were appropriate to mention that the player would receive no athletic or academic $$. 

Adbono;

As a grad in Social Psychology {the study of the individual in a group], I now have data for my PHD. The team is an informal group and can be a "valuable" asset to the young player's growth.

We should as Coaches & Parents always become aware of the young players goals and objectives for playing the game.

Why is he playing, practicing, competing and studying the game?

Parents and Coaches can provide the stage for the player to learn to adjust in life thru baseball. "Self improvement".

Bob

@anotherparent posted:

They certainly do take in revenue from research grants - it's called overhead.  At research universities, in fields that offer grants for research, faculty are very much expected to bring in grants.

Anyway, this has nothing to do with whether or not to announce a baseball offer on social media.

Incoming funds can only be booked as revenue if they are given in return in for a good or service.

Grants and donations are money, but not revenue.  Tuition is revenue.

@adbono thanks for getting the conversation back on track.

FWIW the player accepted the offer which is a preferred walk on. He will post to social media that he will be continuing his education at ABC U and play for the baseball team and Coach XYZ.

Thank you to those who responded to my original question.

A walk on offer or a guaranteed fall roster spot are not exactly things to brag about. As a matter of fact, it’s pretty common. There must be other schools that had given him a similar option or other schools that have shown interest even if it’s minor interest. The player should call those coaches only and explain the offer, but also let the coach know he would much rather attend their school if he can get treated as a preferred walk on. If he had no similar offers or interest then posting to media will do nothing to create interest.

@Ozone posted:

A walk on offer or a guaranteed fall roster spot are not exactly things to brag about. As a matter of fact, it’s pretty common. There must be other schools that had given him a similar option or other schools that have shown interest even if it’s minor interest. The player should call those coaches only and explain the offer, but also let the coach know he would much rather attend their school if he can get treated as a preferred walk on. If he had no similar offers or interest then posting to media will do nothing to create interest.

I agree with the above. The player had no offers from only a few programs that had interest. He was trying to create interest but I didn't agree with his method.

I sat with the player a few weeks ago at a baseball game between two P5 teams. His former HS teammate is a member on one of the teams. He is a freshman huge, and has only had a few at bats. I think he realized that he needed to change gears.

Anyway, whatever the outcome, he has been given an opportunity.

I have no problem with kids posting commitments.   I think posting offers (usually football kids) is ridiculous.   Especially when they say "excited to receive my 9th D1 offer from Michigan".   Everyone knows Michigan is D1 lol. 

My only issue with commitments is if you are going to post it......get the name of the school right.

I've seen The University of Ohio State, University of Indiana, Kansas University.....and too many others to mentiono lol