Another balk question

quote:

Originally posted by coach2709:
I have a kid who has never pitched before in high school throwing in a JV game. We have went over what you can and cannot do in terms of balks but like all young / new players he has no clue until he gets out there.

"Coach" and I use that term very loosely in your case. I have a balk clinic for 9/10 yoa team pitchers and in an hour, I can teach everyone of them not to balk.

quote:

He balked quite a bit during the game but wasn't called for it but there was one time I'm not sure if what he did was a balk or not.

Wonder if this is the problem?

quote:

Runner on first and he is taking signs from the catcher. He comes up and brings his glove hand to the set position but his throwing hand still was behind him. With his glove hand at his waist in the typical set position for a second he then brings his throwing hand into his glove and then he holds for another second and then pitches.

Is this a balk because he didn't bring his hands together in one continuous motion or is it legal for whatever reason?

I hope this makes sense.

Shirley you jest to ask.

quote:

Originally posted by coach2709:
I have a kid who has never pitched before in high school throwing in a JV game. We have went over what you can and cannot do in terms of balks but like all young / new players he has no clue until he gets out there.

Coach, this video is a great resource on balks if you are looking for more teaching material.

http://www.umpireacademy.com/store/product_info.php?products_id=30

quote:

With his glove hand at his waist in the typical set position for a second he then brings his throwing hand into his glove and then he holds for another second and then pitches.

I'm not really clear from reading this but did your pitcher brong his glove to one position, pause, and then bring his throwing hand into the glove and pause again and then deliver?

If this is the case, that should be a balk for failing to deliver after the first pause.

quote:

Originally posted by The All Knowing Garth:

quote:

Originally posted by coach2709:
I have a kid who has never pitched before in high school throwing in a JV game. We have went over what you can and cannot do in terms of balks but like all young / new players he has no clue until he gets out there.

"Coach" and I use that term very loosely in your case. I have a balk clinic for 9/10 yoa team pitchers and in an hour, I can teach everyone of them not to balk.

quote:

He balked quite a bit during the game but wasn't called for it but there was one time I'm not sure if what he did was a balk or not.

Wonder if this is the problem?

quote:

Runner on first and he is taking signs from the catcher. He comes up and brings his glove hand to the set position but his throwing hand still was behind him. With his glove hand at his waist in the typical set position for a second he then brings his throwing hand into his glove and then he holds for another second and then pitches.

Is this a balk because he didn't bring his hands together in one continuous motion or is it legal for whatever reason?

I hope this makes sense.

Shirley you jest to ask.

IDIOT

Welpe

quote:

I'm not really clear from reading this but did your pitcher brong his glove to one position, pause, and then bring his throwing hand into the glove and pause again and then deliver?

If this is the case, that should be a balk for failing to deliver after the first pause.

You got it - glove hand to one position (his waist) then pause. His throwing hand to same position (his waist) then pause. Then deliver.

I thought it would be a balk but not real sure.

Thanks for the link as well. I am going to check it out tomorrow.

Appreciate the help.

I agree, the title "coach" should be used VERY loosely in coach2709's case.


"THE DEFINITION OF THE BALK.

Rule 32, Section I, defines a balk as "Any motion made by the pitcher to
deliver the ball to the bat without delivering it." This definition
embraces every one of the motions the pitcher is accustomed to make
preliminary to the actual delivery of the ball, whether of his hands,
arms, or feet, or any motion of his body. He cannot therefore make any
pretense of delivering the ball while not having the ball in his hand
ready to deliver it as in the case of a base player hiding the ball while
the pitcher acts as if he himself had possession of it--without his making
a balk.

The words "any motion calculated to deceive a base runner," refer to
pretended movements to deliver outside of those referred to in the first
portion of the rule."

Once again,coach2709 making a mountain out of a molehill and trying to make himself look smart.

Good call,All Knowing Garth !!

May I ask why a balk clinic for 9/10 yr olds ?---in most leagues of that age there is no leading and most pitchers do not use a stretch--if there is no leading go to a stretch ?

Nick Witt are you the alter ego for Garth the Unknowing ?


Also Nick--what is the source of your definition ?---they talk many sources in this forum depending on the level of play ( You did not use quotes either)

No,I am no one's alter ego. I am my own man,but I agree with Garth the All Knowing in this case.

Love the play on words--is "Nick Witt" you way of saying "Nit Wit" ??

Don't tell me you are going to insult me as a form of debate,are you ??

I got that definition form the BASEBALL ALMANAC OFFICIAL RULES AND REGULATIONS site.

Sorry, I didn't quote the source.

Are those definitions and rules not accepted here
or for that level of play ?? A balk is a balk no matter what level of ball is played.

Where do you find a balk at the 9/10 under age bracket?


May I ask where Big Indian NY is located? --I am a NY native

There seemed to be a discrepancy concerning what a balk was by coach2709 and it's relation to use in the JV level of play. I did not find any specific balk at the 9/10 under age bracket per say,but the actual question was in regards what actually consitutes a balk and the motions needed to call a balk. Since that seemed to be an issue and coach2709 was weakly arguing the point for his own self aggrandizing,I quoted the official definition as a means to further understand the balk and not be confused with coach2709's convoluted and long winded rhetoric.

Big Indian is 45 miles west of Kingston,NY.

NK

You are talking past Shokan then?

My question regarding the balk clinic was for the UNKNOWING GARTH, when are there balks at the 9/10 under groups ?

Do you know the answer?--

quote:

Originally posted by Nick Kitt:
I agree, the title "coach" should be used VERY loosely in coach2709's case.


"THE DEFINITION OF THE BALK.

Rule 32, Section I, defines a balk as "Any motion made by the pitcher to
deliver the ball to the bat without delivering it." This definition
embraces every one of the motions the pitcher is accustomed to make
preliminary to the actual delivery of the ball, whether of his hands,
arms, or feet, or any motion of his body. He cannot therefore make any
pretense of delivering the ball while not having the ball in his hand
ready to deliver it as in the case of a base player hiding the ball while
the pitcher acts as if he himself had possession of it--without his making
a balk.

The words "any motion calculated to deceive a base runner," refer to
pretended movements to deliver outside of those referred to in the first
portion of the rule."

I don't know where you got this definition. A balk is defined as an illegal act by the pitcher with men on base. The illegal acts which result in a balk are listed in Rule 8 - The Pitcher.

Here is a link to the rules.

http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/official_info/official_rules/foreword.jsp

The HS rules differ in some ways, but what was described in the OP is a balk in all codes.

Dash

Do you worry about balks at the 9/10 under group ?

I don't do that age group, but I think balks are silly at that age. They should be thinking about the batter, period.

quote:

Originally posted by coach2709:


You got it - glove hand to one position (his waist) then pause. His throwing hand to same position (his waist) then pause. Then deliver.

OK, in that case, definitely a balk.

quote:

Thanks for the link as well. I am going to check it out tomorrow.

Not a problem, hope it helps!

quote:

Originally posted by TRhit:
May I ask why a balk clinic for 9/10 yr olds ?---in most leagues of that age there is no leading and most pitchers do not use a stretch--if there is no leading go to a stretch ?

In competitive leagues, not LL, balks are commonly called at that age group. Coaches learn to coach at that age group. Players learn to play the game by FED or OBR at those age groups.

Since when can't you balk from the windup?

To the OP:

Do not be led astray by the other clueless posters in this thread. The pitcher must bring his hands together AT THE SAME TIME otherwise it is a balk.

Well, it would be pretty difficult to bring them together at a different time

I've seen a right-handed pitcher already having his glove in front of his belly and his right arm along his side taking signs from the catcher [OBR 8.01: "Preparatory to coming to a set position, the pitcher shall have one hand on his side"]. He did come to a set by just 'sneaking' his arm into his glove, almost without moving any part of his body except his right arm. As U1 I had some problems seeing this because it was happening behind his body and his glove from my point of view.
But I think it is still legal.

Jan:
I think the difference between what you are describing is in the OP the glove coming up is one motion and then the hand comes into the glove. What you are seeing is the glove is there as he settles on the rubber and then he brings his hand up. Illegal in the OP, legal in your case. Subtle difference but a difference none the less.

Ok for all the guys who made a positive contribution to this thread and explained to me that my guy did balk - thank you.

For all the others on here who just posted garbage please stop because this is a great place to learn. I love baseball just like others in here and want to learn more about it. Best way to learn is get in here and ask the people who know something. So if you are here to cause trouble please go somewhere else and cause trouble.

quote:

Originally posted by coach2709:
For all the others on here who just posted garbage please stop because this is a great place to learn. I love baseball just like others in here and want to learn more about it. Best way to learn is get in here and ask the people who know something. So if you are here to cause trouble please go somewhere else and cause trouble.

Coach, I could ask you to brush up on the rules though.

Tim,

Why do you think I am on here for? Pardon me for teaching six classes all day, preparing for practice for 35 guys, driving the bus to and from the games, probably having to pay for two or three meals after the games because my guys can't afford it, getting home at about 10 at the earliest to grade papers until midnight because I don't have a free period (that is when I have to pick up the bus), spend my free time keeping the field in shape, rasing every dime we spend in the offseason, getting my guys into colleges, taking them to showcases because they can't afford it, listen to some parents gripe and complain because their kid isn't playing enough (although that hasn't been a real problem this year) and a few other things I am forgetting until I have to do them.

So yeah when I do have a few free minutes to try and learn some rules I am going to go where it is the quickest and easiest to learn them - here.

Besides which is more important - reading a book or talking to someone who has seen that obscure rule during a game and get a firsthand account of how to handle it and what to look for?

EDITED - after I hit post I reread this message and feel it's coming across too negatively. Tim based on your post about why people come in here sort of hit me wrong. I haven't seen enough of your posts to know how you are going to be so I am editing this post to give you the benefit of the doubt. This is a great place to learn.