Any advice on our situation appreciated

Congratulation on raising a son that is both academically gifted and skilled at this wonderful game of baseball.

 

Many, many D-1 recruits leave ther D-1 program and seek greener pastures for more playing time. Check out the University of Tampa's roster (a D-2)  to get a fuller appreciation of what I am talking about.

 

I am a firm believer in going where they love you, if many love you go where the greatest exposure is (if the goal is to play at the next level).

 

Every D-1 in the south should get plenty of scouts, so you should be okay from that perspective. In Florida, every D-2 and JUCO gets plenty of scouts. On Friday I was in Tampa and watched several innings of a JUCO game that had about 15-18 scouts in attendence. Later I went to the University of Tampa's opener and there were at least as many there.

 

If you have a strong offer from a smaller program, but like the school and feel like you can fit in there and contribute right away, I would lean that way.

 

I would call the other programs and tell them to make a solid offer right away because you have a great offer on the table that you need to consider. It is time for those schools to present their offer or rsk losing their prospect.

 

I is nice to be loved, it is nice to have optons, but offers are the best.

hardgame,

 

Thanks for your post. 

 

My two cents....I'm not sure what your son wants to get out of college baseball.  Is he looking for the best possible program to go pro, best possible education with baseball or a way to help pay for school.  So, that answer would have a huge part in any decision I would make.  I would want to be crystal clear on the path to get to his goals.

 

When you say he is on the "cusp with the top conferences ACC/SEC" that tells me he will sit on the bench for a year or two. Very rarely does a freshman earn a starting position on these teams competing against other freshmen, sophs, upper classmen and JUCO transfers.   The top conferences have already recruited their phenoms.   Is he prepared to sit the bench for a year or two? 

 

The school that made the offer seems to want your son.  That is a very good thing.  What about playing time?  Would he be competing for a position as a freshmen with the school that offered him?  Also an important thing to consider IMHO.  

 

Truthfully, I would probably contact his first choice and ask them specifically about their timetable & progress with his recruiting class NOT about their "intentions".  From that "timetable" answer you can most likely start the conversation movely gently forward.  Asking them about their "intentions" right off the bat will possibly come across the wrong way.  Asking about their timetable will tell them your son is getting interest, and they will understand that.  IN addition, any date they throw out there can be a measuring stick in a very informal and squishy process.  I think you want to keep the dialogue light until they begin to share specifics with you.  Once you see that opening with specifics then I think you can ask the "intentions" question or at least hint around it.

 

I think you have a lot of things to consider and get information.  I would research the heck out of the school that offered as well as choices 2 and 3 as well as any other schools that interest him.  There have been so many people come onto this site that wind up at a school they didn't know anything about before they started this process.   People are familiar with the "prom queen schools" (ACC, SEC PAC-10) schools because they are media darlings with football and basketball, and seem to always be on TV.  There are so many other schools to consider IMHO, and it may be worth your time.  JMO.   Good luck.

Hardgame,

 

Regarding your specific question of what to tell the school that offered, tell them the truth:   He really likes the school, its coaches, and its facilities.  He could see himself playing there.  It could be a very good fit for school, baseball, and family. He is still exploring options and gathering information.  He should tell them whether he thinks he can make a final decision within the 60-day window, and should promise to keep them advised.  

 

There is much wisdom in Florida Fan's "go where they love you" advice and FenwaySouth's explanation of what "on the cusp" will mean in practical terms.  

 

Going to a school far from home where he will be "on the cusp" is choosing a very hard road.      If he makes that choice, he should do so with his eyes open to the risks.

 

Best wishes,

 

Hardgame,

 

In answer to this question:

 

* Is this gamemanship with the offer school....i.e. would they really tell him "no thanks" in the fall if he came back and said I want to commit after all? Once they want you they want you or does that really go away?

 

It is possible that the offer would go away if your son does not commit within a certain timeframe.  At some point the coach will extend offers to his "next choices", and he only has a limited numbers of scholarships and roster spots.

 

Good luck to your son ... it sounds like he has an exciting road ahead of him!

 

Julie

A few years ago I was watching an ACC game. It was back when I was trying to learn as much as I could about college baseball recruiting practices. I talked to as many parents as possible asking about their experience. In this case the conversation was with the dad of a starting freshman.

 

The team his son was starting for was a middle of the pack ACC team. I asked if a top ranked team from their state recruited him. The dad said the top ranked team made an offer. But the college program he chose beat down their door. The dad's advice to pass on to my son was ... "Go where you're loved, not where they're interested. It diminishes the odds of having to transfer to play." 

 

A couple of years ago I read half of D1 players transfer to get playing time. When I first joined this site I recollect someone posting, "If you have pro aspirations you have a better shot at being seen on the field at a lesser program than on the bench at a powerhouse.

Hardgame, I also have a 2014 and your situation is so similiar to my son's it's scary.  The same Sept 1st stuff, camps, unofficial visits, and a mid-level school that is being very aggressive.  He is also on the cusp of SEC/ACC .  When we met with the HC of the Mid-Level D1 he asked us what his commitment time line was and son said that he wants to play out the spring and summer and commit the end of July. 

 

Now that could change but that's the plan today. I am a firm believer in going where they want you and going where you have the best chance to succeed... Let me know how it goes for you, this is exactly my sons issues as well.

Thanks to everyone for the feedback and great advice! Really appreciated....

 

basballdadinining, did this lower level school say OK to your end of July timeline? That would be ideal, I just didn't go there but would have been a good idea.

 

Son's intentions are to go to as big a school as he can and use baseball to help finance it. Pro is something he would love, of course, but he is also smart and will do well in school and already has ideas on careers so if getting drafted happens, great. He fully expects to, but as a Dad that is last thing on my list for him. Would like to see him love his college experience and truthfully, I'm not so sure that sitting for a few years at big school wouldn't be more appealing to him than starting as freshman at school he isn't happy with. Tough call. He wants the "full college" experience of football, basketball, etc. at a school he is proud of and can follow the rest of his life. I actually get that, as I played college football at a I-AA and could have sat awhile at bigger schools but chose to go where I could play and to this day, I can't follow my alma mater that closely, see them play on TV, etc. I just look back now and might have been OK at bigger school that I didn't play at right away so I could be engaged in that school the rest of my life (travel to bowl games, be a booster, etc)

 

Oh well, sounds like we have some calls to make and just lay cards on the table to all the schools, in the right manner, and see what happens. Thanks again, all!

I would say that this school that is very interested in 2104 plays SEC and ACC schools regularly.  They are a good baseball school, lets say they are like a RICE or a Southern Miss, not too shabby.  This school is very close to our house so we can attend many games.   We are in the heart of SEC land. 

 

I think 2014 wants to attend the biggest school he can where he will play early rather than later.  I have had many family members and friends play SEC/ACC and if my 2014 can end up at a SEC/ACC school and play then that's great, But he does not want to sit for a year maybe a year and half.  Factor in that some SEC/ACC schools are only expecting you to stay 3 years anyway, he does not want to sit half the time he's there.    You will not get to the pro game unless you get better and and you cannot get better if you are not playing.  The school in question for 2014 has the same facilities that any ACC/SEC school has. Go where they love you

 

To answer your question, when we told the HC our committing time line, He seemed to be fine with it, He also knows the travel team that 2014 plays for, and he knows that we have 4 already committed to SEC schools.

 

I think this school is the better fit for 2014, it's close, the cost would be minimal, he plays great comp, in a good conference, in the south..and would likely play sooner than if he were on a top 10 roster. I sure don;t want to go top 25 and then transfer, hey there are good programs that are not SEC/ACC  Rice, Stoney Brook, Kent State

Baseballdadintraining,
Great advice,   you understand the recruiting game and how its played.

Go where they show you the love.  My son played in the ACC, not the school he always dreamed of playing for but where he felt most wanted. That should be the goal no matter what conference, what divion.
Go where you will play asap. You don't get better sitting on the bench.
Best of luck to your sons.

I'm not so sure that sitting for a few years at big school wouldn't be more appealing to him than starting as freshman at school he isn't happy with

  For many kids playing time = happy at school.  Not playing = not happy at school.  You have to figure out which kind of kid you have, and he may change! 
You may also find no matter where your son goes, ACC/Big West, .JC he may end up redshirting his first year, even if the coach really likes him  Its a big step up to D1 from HS, especiatlly for position players.

1st off you want to send him to a school where the coach sincerely wants him
2nd he must trust the coach, if his gut says something not quite right, don't go.
3rd don't bow in to  pressure to decide at this point, a hurred decision can be a bad discision even if it means paying more tuition.
4th Playing succesfully in a confernce with solid pitching helps a position player in the draft.  Pitching is better in the SEC and ACC.  My son's 5th place ACC team Sunday pitcher threw 95 (yes he threw strikes and a curve), you don't get that in the big west etc. (I can say that because he also played in the big west).

5th don't worry about where a school "is" on your son's list.  The school my son ended up at was never on any list he ever told me about, he liked the coach a lot better then schools he had on his list. 

 

There is no easy answer.

 

Go where your wanted.

 

Aim for the highest level of conference play, with a coach you like.

 

btw, you don't have to play on the top team in a conference to have pro scouts notice you, you just have to play good against the top team!

I see we have some new members in this thread so welcome.

 

I wouldn't over think this stuff.  The problem is when nobody is contacting you and neither of you have that so things aren't so bad.  What you really want is the best of both worlds.  You want the initial offers to stay open indefinitely while you continue to play the field.  

 

We all know life does not work that way.  All you have to do is put yourselves in the shoes of the other person to understand that.  If they leave offers open that long, they might get caught short-handed so they'll move on to Plan B.  Be honest with these coaches.  Tell them you would like as much time as possible to make a decision because there are a number of schools you are evaluating.  If they tell you a time frame that is less than you would like, make a commitment or move on.  It's no more complicated than that.  No need to stew about what ifs or what the other guy is thinking.  Keep executing your plan until you get the offer you like at the school you like.  No one can predict the future.

 

As a friendly suggestion, please consider not referring to your sons in the third person as 2014 or 2015.  That is somewhat clunky to read and follow frankly.  It's OK to let us know that your son may be a 2015 but then refer to them like you always do in the second person voice - as my son this and my son that....     

I also have a 2014 who is in a very similar situation.  He has a VERY strong offer from mid-major school and they sincerely want him.  He has 5+ major D1  schools who are waiting to see him during HS season and plays on a very good HS team.  The offer is open ended, but they promised to keep us posted as others they have offered accept.  Communication lines are wide open.

 

My son is also intrigued by a larger school and has very good academics.  Our problem is that I really think he needs 1-2 offers from the big schools to have no regrets when he decides.  If he takes the mid-major offer (in my opinion a great option), he may look back with wonder if he doesn't choose it with clarity.  For this reason, we are playing the risky game of waiting on the big D1.  I think we are probably only 60-75 days from having those options, so it looks like a great risk now. 

 

Although I think it is nice to attend a school that has all the national following, I am really wondering how much it impacts your life.  Getting to play the game and getting an extremely good education seem so much more important at my age.  I guess you can strive for both.  I just don't ever want my son to move schools.  If you move, you will likely be at 3 schools in 3 years.  That does not sound fun at all.

Make a list of the pros and cons of each school. Be honest about your abilties, my son has gotten some good attention from a few ACC/SEC schools.  BUT the attention he has gotten from the mid-majors has been better.  Go to the school that gives you the best chance to succeed on the field and in the classroom.

 

I mean we are splitting hairs a bit here are we not?  Rankings will change, teams and programs will get better, some will get worst.  Would you rather play for UT that was 24-31 or Kent State that was 47-20 and went to the World Series? 

 

Is it important to you as a player to play for Vanderbilt and get on TV, but not the field, or not as much TV and your playing everyday? 

 

Once you get to campus you'll know if you were fooling yourself or not. Don't be a roster filler at an top 25 school, thinking that wow, I'm here, now everything will be ok.  I know a few of major leaguers that never played for top 25 school and some minor leaguers that did.  

 

I make is a point to read the JH post every month or so.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Very nice post.  I wouldn't necessarily equate risk to a problem but I understand what you mean.  Believe in your plan and follow it.  Your plan makes sense for your family and circumstances.  If your son has interest now, it won't mysteriously dry up.  You could lose the opportunity at the mid-major but something else better could also fall in its place.  If you feel that having a couple of other offers in place to provide contrast to the mid-major offer, then that is the plan you should follow.  None of us here could possibly know any better because we do not stand in your shoes.

 

Stick to your plan and keep executing it.  Something good will happen.  Risk is part of life and great things are often born from risk.

At the end of the day, most people go with what the son wants. Often it doesn't work out well. The more they want you, the more you're likely to play. You are getting some good advice here.

 

I'm not sure what being on the "cusp" means.  If someone really wants you, you are not on the "cusp".  If it means with a little improvement and you expect that to happen, why not just wait.  Money seems to appear out of nowhere if they really want you bad enough.  We are out of money, is only true to those they don't feel like they have to have.

 

If your son improves over the summer, his value goes up, not down.  Even with the school that first offered. Injury can always cause a problem, though. Remember that gamesmanship actually works both ways and used by the recruiter as well.

 

Honesty is great, but sometimes too much honesty can reduce your possibilities. Show extreme interest in anyone that shows interest. SEC and ACC are extremely good, but also a baseball grave yard for some kids. That is why the word "cusp" is confusing.

 

Where are you from?

 

Best of luck

Son was pleasantly surprised with school, great facilities (actually better than some of the ACC/SEC schools we saw) and loved coaching staff. The conference concerns him and they aren't a "name brand" school like he wants (the interest he has gotten from the big boys is almost a bad thing as he fully expects to play at one of those schools but being a dad, I want to be realistic too....I know they fill up quickly with their offers and I worry about waiting until summer for them to see him again and if/when they have room for him).

 

If it were me, I wouldn't wait... sounds like it could be a great thing... Good luck!

I also am not sure about what "being on the cusp" might mean. 

 

This is not to be negative towards college coaches, especially the ones from the high powered conferences.  Telling a player that they want to "follow" him during the season and through the summer,  might mean, IMO, "we really have quite a few more players we are more interested in than you right now but they haven't committed to us".

 

Someone told me a few weeks back that without a doubt, when someone is SERIOUSLY interested you KNOW it.  There is no mistaking genuine now interest vs maybe future interest.  Understand that coaches also have lists, A, B and C players for all positions. A is, we want this guy and we will pay good $$ dollars for him, B is, we will take him if A commits somewhere else and offer him less because he wants to play here and C is the backup guy, the one who gets the call if A or B commits somewhere else or gets drafted and may be asked to be a walk on with no $$.  Now I know that everyone has to prove themselves in practice to ge the job in spring and year to year, but who do you think will get more opportunities, and which one would you prefer to be as a player? 

 

There are many good points playing for the top programs in top conferences in the country, there are many not so good ones as well.  I only say this because son attended one of those top programs that show up in Omaha.  My son had a great college experience, but those that know me will tell you that I say, and all to help people understand, this is not for everyone. 

 

And for heaven's sake NEVER relocate your family to go watch him play. If this is a priority, then seek options closer to home.

 

 

 

 

Very truthful post, TPM!

Of course the big D1's are not for everyone.  For starters, they do not recruit everyone.  If you go there, and find out you are the 35th kid on the roster, I would guess those feelings would come to the surface and regrets may then set in.  

 

My strong feeling is that coaches do not call kids who are not prospects.  If I were a coach, I would not waste my time doing that.  For lower prospects, I would try and get them for less, but I would still consider them prospects nonetheless or I wouldn't call them in the first place.

 

I'm for the advice that says go where they show you the most love.  I feel that way most of the time, however I believe there are exceptions to every rule.  One exception is the player's belief in themselves.  Sometimes, you just have to go out and prove everyone wrong.  You also have to be willing to deal with the consequences of that decision.  For those types of players, the rewards can be enormous even though the risks seem to outweigh following that course of action.

 

I know there is a big leaguer up there in Minnesota right now who people said did not have the ability to play D1 let alone get drafted from a D2 and then grind it out to the top level from the minor leagues.  Sometimes you have to out-stubborn people, not take no for an answer, and then outwork everyone in your path to the top of the heap.  It also helps to find some luck along the way 

Very good advice. First thing that came to mind after reading this is, isn't the recruiting process fun?

 

Your son does the work and is lucky enough to be considered, you do your due diligence, make your lists, communicate, prune down the choices (hopefully), make your choice and when your son walks on campus, all your previous busy work means nothing. He either performs or doesn't. It could very well turn out that what you thought was all sunshine and light was in fact a dark tunnel.

 

This isn't an attempt to depress anyone but CD's point about not over thinking the process is an important one. The only points I might add would be:

 

* Don't go chasing shiny objects. If its an SEC, ACC school whatever don't let that fact blind you to the second point:

* Know your son, (try) and know the coach. Does your son want to shoot for the brass ring, knowing if he misses at least he made the effort or would the stress of the whole ordeal affect him negatively? Make sure the HC has an honest reputation. No guarantee of anything but at least he'll be treated fairly. Just because his school might go to CWS it doesn't guarantee happiness if he's watching the games from the bench for 4 years. 

* It's all about performance. When your son chooses a school he will be up against All State/ All American etc type players who will be more than happy to show your son their press clippings. Go about his business, outwork the others and don't look back.

 

It's a wild ride. Enjoy.

 

   

 

 

I just want parents/players to understand that a player's priority list of schools means nothing unless that coach is seriously interested in the player (unless the player is a stud who can contribute asap then he can have a long list if he wishes). 

 

Always remember, Coaches recruit players not the other way around.  Coaches have lists too, and even though one feels the coach has interest, you may not necessarily be their #1 or #2 priority. The coach has to recruit while keeping his team balanced $$ wise and talent wise, the coach needs to have reserves available.  They have a way of doing things that makes the player feel that they are interested and they have done it hundreds of times, maybe some of us do it once or twice. They are better at it then we are at guessing what it all really means.  They know just what to say and how to say it. It's not being dishonest, it's business. 

 

Perhaps that is why players get the feeling they are on the "cusp".

 

Our experience was that there were several D-1s out of state that expressed interest and multiple offers and there were the D-1's instate that talked.

 

On the D-2 side there were a few programs that were trying to get my son's commitment every day. One tried each year for 3 years.

 

You will know who really wants you. It is unmistakeable. TPM has stated it very accurately.

 

My son chose to go where his was loved, which fortunately involved 3 or 4 solid D-2's, and filtered that by what would provide him the best opportunity to play at the next level.

 

 

I too feel my 2014 is "on the cusp"  but when we talked to the mid-level coaches it was obvious the difference in their interest and what I thought was interest from the SEC school

 

I would rather be a 1 pick for a mid-level, get to play against an SEC school and show what you can do rather than being in the dugout for the SEC school and not getting the time.

 

I understand sometimes you can 'prove them wrong"  , but most of the time you cannot.  Go where you can play, where they have a plan for you.  Once you get there and meet your teammates and start practicing and being a part of something you will forget about being on the cusp......

 

It's about what is best for the student/athlete not dad saying "hey we signed at SEC school"  I had a D1 coach tell me last fall, you have to get recruited, commit, sign, get accepted, enroll, go to practice, and then if your lucky you get on the dirt.

 

 

You have to prove yourself in every case. You are in a much better situation if they have recruited you hard. Then you are there to prove them right.

 

I'm a big believer in shooting for the moon. But in Baseball the Moon is the Major Leagues. Nearly every player who ever lived had to further develop after high school.

 

The projected #1 pick in the 2013 draft is at Indiana State. Had he been in the SEC, he might not have had as good a chance to develop.

 

I admire kids that go to the Big Time schools for little or no money. Some of those kids hit it big! Unfortunately, more often than not, that trip to the moon never took off.

 

The other thing to consider is comfort. It's much easier to develop and be your best when you are comfortable.  The game itself is full of pressure, why make it worse by being in an uncomfortable setting.

 

My suggestion is this... If happiness depends on playing in a major conference or top 25 program... Go for it! Just have a secondary plan in place in case things don't work out. That could mean a Junior College in many cases.

 

I've also known many kids who simply took the offer that worked out best financially. That too, can be a big mistake and can turn into a nightmare. There is no certainty in all of this.  Follow your heart but use your brain.

 

To me... The most important thing to consider... The Coaching Staff! There are a lot of great baseball coaches out there. There not all in the Big Conferences.

I am agreeing with all the advice in this thread if that is even possible.  Excellent thoughts from everyone.  This is the type thread that only can be discussed here at the hsbbweb.

 

I would like to throw out a hypothetical to see if we can have more discussion.  A kid, perhaps in this thread, receives a 60% scholarship offer from a power mid-major who rotounely makes the NCAA regionals and often plays SEC and ACC schools - in-season or otherwise.  In addition, the same kid receives a 25% offer from a big time SEC school who recently played in Omaha.  The mid-major is ga-ga over the young lad and the SEC school has said they believe the kid can be a future star.  The boy has dreamed all his life of playing in Omaha and wants to go the SEC route with probably 10 times the inherent risk.  How do you advise the youngster?

 

 

I would definately take the mid major, too much upside , and too much down side for the SEC school. I agree that some players, my son included could get better and land an SEC school, but the 'cusp' player is not going to ge the first shot, he's not going to get a second chance.  Here is the honest truth about what happend to my son..

An SEC school last dec  said yes we have a big interest in you.  the mid-major ( who plays SEC schools) invited him to campus , treated him like a king, met with HC for 30 minutes and ask him if he wanted to play for them...... which one would you pick. 

 

And this mid-major has 30K students....

 

You might find this very interesting.  DK down to 2 choices. Going to Omaha had always been a dream and he believed that he would get there by going to Clemson. Of course we all know that wasn't the primary reason, also what sold him was the coaching staff, a great college town, small class size and a couple of other things important enough to lure him away from UF. FWIW, because of bright futures program here in FL, with bb $$, he would have gotten money back in his pocket.  Both programs wanted him very much but one was more sincere than the other.

 

Guess which team went to Omaha the first year DK went to college? You guessed it, UF.

 

The road to Omaha is very long and very difficult.  I don't think that should be the main reason to attend any program, a consideration, but not THE reason. 

 

My advice would be to go where you can afford to send your player where he will have a great college experience, play baseball and get an education. 

 

JMO 

 

 

If the academics were equivalent, we'd focus on his thoughts about the two baseball programs, their coaches, his role on each team, expected playing time, risk vs rewards, etc.  After all is said and done, I'd weigh in on the subject and let him decide where he wants to go to college.

 

After he decides which school, we'd discuss the financial side of his decision.

Two things to keep in mind:

 

Try as much as possible to get some objective info about the coaching staff from current or former players and their parents, i.e. their style, how they deal (or don't deal!) with freshmen. Sometimes the impression you or your son gets during the recruiting process is colored by the fact that the coach is trying to entice your son and that your son (and, by extension, you)  may be flattered by the attention, kind words, assessment of his potential, etc., etc.

 

Secondly, assistant coaches and, to a lesser extent head coaches, come and go--sometimes to greener pastures, sometimes out-to-pasture, and sometimes "legends" who have been at a school forever go off to the big dugout in the sky.

 

Now, two years after the fact, at three of the schools that were high on my son's list, as well as high on my son, the coaching staffs have been completely revamped.

 

 

FWIW, I would never ask a recruiter about playing time. If someone asked me that, I would tell them,. It's all up to YOU!

 

It's very easy to see if the school plays freshmen. After all, every successful program brings in freshmen every year. Once you know that, you shouldn't need to ask a question about it. Their demeanor and more importantly, their offer will give you an idea of the playing time THEY THINK your son will contribute.

 

Better off asking a simple question like... Do you think I can have an impact here? The way they answer might give you a hint as to their thoughts about playing time.

myy guy had it put to him this way

 

 

you have o uniform but you must earn the right to start and travel    no flowers ---you gotta earn it