Hi all, has anyone use Diamond College Advisory Team (DCAT)? I was considering it, but then saw the hefty price tag. Wondered if anyone found it worth the price?
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$7000, wow, that's crazy.
Too rich for me.
Serious question: Is there a price where recruiting help like DCAT offers would be worth it? Or, maybe another way to ask: What would you be willing to pay for recruiting help and what would you expect a service like that to deliver?
What would a recruit get from a service he wouldn’t get from a travel team with knowledgeable coaches with quality college contacts and asking questions here?
If you are going that route, NCSA is a lot less $$ and has been around longer. Some webinars are helpful, Kaplan practice for SAT, etc.
HSBBWEB has posters whose sons have been to schools at all levels and are willing to share personal experiences, which is what they are. No two recruiting journeys are alike. Lots of good "intel" here.
Everything one needs to know about a baseball recruiting effort is available to be learned here, and it's always most impressive to college recruiters when a player assumes the primary responsibility for spearheading his own recruiting effort. It's indicative of the maturity and motivation of a player who wants to play at a higher level. That's not to say that parents can't and shouldn't act as resources and guides to their children as they navigate the process; but, it's always telling when others take on the principal responsibility for a player.
That's particularly true when recruiting services are hired to promote a player. A recruiting service is second only to that of a player's parent for activating a college recruiter's negative antennae when either is responsible for providing the introductory information about a player. Whether justified or not, either one's promotion implicitly communicates that the player is at the margin; and few successful coaches are looking for marginal players.
As is always the case, there are exceptions to this and every other generality; but, if you want to put a player's recruiting prospects at a relative disadvantage compared to his peers, put a paid representative at the forefront of his promotion to college coaches.
RJM, Not much, if anything.
Frankly, our D3 recruiting process (for ‘17 and ‘19) was successful simply by using this site, committing some time, and getting to a few camps and/or showcases. We had well meaning but inexperienced coaches and no real travel team.
I know we wore folks like RJM out trying to figure out the recruiting process.
With kid #3 (a ‘22) Covid may prevent camps and showcases. We know video and verifiable stats have been enough for some ‘21s this year, so we’ll see. Stay tuned.
@RJM posted:What would a recruit get from a service he wouldn’t get from a travel team with knowledgeable coaches with quality college contacts and asking questions here?
I don't know, but then again there's a lot I don't know. I'm not even sure how I find out which travel team nearby has knowledgeable coaches with college contacts.
@Ripken Fan posted:If you are going that route, NCSA is a lot less $$ and has been around longer. Some webinars are helpful, Kaplan practice for SAT, etc.
HSBBWEB has posters whose sons have been to schools at all levels and are willing to share personal experiences, which is what they are. No two recruiting journeys are alike. Lots of good "intel" here.
I looked into NCSA previously and decided to just go with a SportRecruits profile. I'm curious about anyone having experience with DCAT because they recently emailed me after attendance at a Headfirst showcase.
@Prepster posted:Everything one needs to know about a baseball recruiting effort is available to be learned here, and it's always most impressive to college recruiters when a player assumes the primary responsibility for spearheading his own recruiting effort. It's indicative of the maturity and motivation of a player who wants to play at a higher level. That's not to say that parents can't and shouldn't act as resources and guides to their children as they navigate the process; but, it's always telling when others take on the principal responsibility for a player.
That's particularly true when recruiting services are hired to promote a player. A recruiting service is second only to that of a player's parent for activating a college recruiter's negative antennae when either is responsible for providing the introductory information about a player. Whether justified or not, either one's promotion implicitly communicates that the player is at the margin; and few successful coaches are looking for marginal players.
As is always the case, there are exceptions to this and every other generality; but, if you want to put a player's recruiting prospects at a relative disadvantage compared to his peers, put a paid representative at the forefront of his promotion to college coaches.
I hadn't considered the possibility of a negative stigma associated with a recruiting service. Does that apply to just using one to host a profile/website of the player?
@smokeminside posted:RJM, Not much, if anything.
Frankly, our D3 recruiting process (for ‘17 and ‘19) was successful simply by using this site, committing some time, and getting to a few camps and/or showcases. We had well meaning but inexperienced coaches and no real travel team.
I know we wore folks like RJM out trying to figure out the recruiting process.
With kid #3 (a ‘22) Covid may prevent camps and showcases. We know video and verifiable stats have been enough for some ‘21s this year, so we’ll see. Stay tuned.
If you don't mind sharing, which D3s did your 17 and 19 end up at? And they go to the camps on your own or were they invited by the pertinent schools to attend them?
Wow. $7000! That's like money for that Rick Singer "Aunt Becky's daughters" guy. To get value out of that amount something would have to not be on the up n up. If its straight up recruiting help, how can they bring $7k worth of value????
@BaseballJoe posted:I hadn't considered the possibility of a negative stigma associated with a recruiting service. Does that apply to just using one to host a profile/website of the player?
No, and thank you for raising the question. I think there's a significant distinction between those that simply provide a ready platform for college recruiters to view profiles and videos; particularly during this extended dead period.
I was referring solely to the ones that are hired by parents to actively promote players to recruiters. They're virtually always met with skepticism. The only referrals that recruiters tend to value is that which comes from trusted, credible sources. Paid promotional services are the opposite of that.
We used an advisor. We paid about $1,000 five years ago, when son had just finished his freshman year in high school. Probably not worth that much, but it was worthwhile. Neither one of us parents had any experience with recruiting or athletics in general. The advisor provided us with contact information for schools for my son, instructions on how to set up and shoot our video (in some cases they'll do the video for you) and helped my son craft an email and a web site that showed his skills.
They also offered baseball specific advice — is fall travel okay, does it make sense to go to this high level (expensive) tournament or are we better off going with two cheaper tournaments in different geographic regions? Advisor was the first person that son had an adult relationship with and it allowed him to test drive baseball conversations about his philosophy and strategies with non family members. Later in the process, he would call the guy and ask about specific coaches, how to answer questions he was getting from some programs, etc. This part was super valuable.
We didn't want the advisor getting involved between my son and coaches. He literally recommended him to one program that we know of — it was a D2 and we never visited, but based on the recommendation and son's video, they made him an offer. The guy said later the coach was a friend of his who needed a pitcher and he thought my son and the coach would be a good fit.
Having said all that, son ended up at the only D1 baseball school in Iowa, two hours away. He would have gone there with or without the advisor, although I do think the suggestions on how to let coaches know how you are growing and developing through a long recruiting process helped guide son in selling himself to the program.
So mixed bag. Nothing worth nearly $7k, for sure.
@BaseballJoe posted:I don't know, but then again there's a lot I don't know. I'm not even sure how I find out which travel team nearby has knowledgeable coaches with college contacts.
First, you decide what level prospect your son is. From some questions you’ve asked I’m guessing maybe D3. Now you start building a business plan.
What leagues and what programs does my son have the ability to play? What schools does my son have the academic ability to get accepted or baseball may provide leverage to get him accepted? We started with conferences we felt the kids could compete. Then we narrowed the process deciding on schools academically and baseball wise in those conferences.
Then you find out where these schools look for talent by writing to them. Express interest in the college and baseball program. Ask the coaching staff what events they attend a player can be seen.
A player can be seen two ways. 1) Showcases where players are divided up into teams for scrimmages and 2) tournaments travel teams participate that draw college coaches.
There are two ways to find out about the right travel teams to get to the next level. 1) Ask around and tryout. 2) Be recruited to be on a team. #2 is a lot easier than #1. With #2 they’re telling the player he’s a fit. With #1 the player has to convince the coaching staff he’s a fit.
Recruiting changed A LOT from when I played high school ball in the 70’s. The only events were MLB tryout camps and hope for some word of mouth recommendation. Mostly recruiting was college programs finding the player. Now a player can place himself where the eyes are.
I was clueless when my (oldest) daughter went through the softball process. I leaned heavily on a teammate’s dad whose older daughter were already player college ball. Fortunately the high school coach had come from a highly regarded travel program my daughter was already involved.
The second time around with my son I was educated on the process. I knew the what. I had to learn the where and when. Fortunately when it was recruiting time he was invited to play for the right travel programs. His choice worked out well.
One thing I did was attend college games and ask parents how their kids got to the program, where else they looked and how they went through the process. Parents love to talk about their kids. After going through the process many parents like to help/show off what they know about the process. But, never take one person’s word as absolute truth. Each players journey may be different.
Add: When communicating with schools you can help your son with what to say. But he needs to write the emails. Coaches can sniff out when a parent is writing the email. Create an email address for recruiting such as ... name.highschool(year)@email.com
Good luck.
@Iowamom23 posted:We used an advisor. We paid about $1,000 five years ago, when son had just finished his freshman year in high school. Probably not worth that much, but it was worthwhile. Neither one of us parents had any experience with recruiting or athletics in general. The advisor provided us with contact information for schools for my son, instructions on how to set up and shoot our video (in some cases they'll do the video for you) and helped my son craft an email and a web site that showed his skills. ....
Not all advisors are created equal. I know someone who cashed in on having two sons go through the D1 process and one being a top MLB prospect. He targeted the third son’s age group heavily. The kid was a D1 prospect.
He told one of my former 13-16u travel players to write to his dream school’s coaches. The kid wrote to Stanford and Vanderbilt. He advised the kid to do PG showcases. The advisor never saw the kid play. The kid was a 5’7” HA D3 prospect with no power, no arm and 6.8 speed. As a friend of the parents from having coached the kid for several years I made one free recommendation, Head First. He was recruited from Head First. He attended and played at an HA D3.
The parents got frustrated with the response time from the paid advisor. They started asking me questions. They asked how I knew so much. I told them either from experience or asking on a board called hsbaseballweb.
@smokeminside posted:Too rich for me.
Serious question: Is there a price where recruiting help like DCAT offers would be worth it? Or, maybe another way to ask: What would you be willing to pay for recruiting help and what would you expect a service like that to deliver?
There's a lot of great advice on this board. There is also a lot of flippant advice on this board that sums up to you don't need this that or the other thing if your kid is actually good enough. You don't have to look far to see advice like that. I think this fails to take into consideration the current year is totally different and a complete log jam---unlike any other.
I think that if your kid has the talent, determination, work ethic and confidence they can still get left behind in this mess. If you can help him find the right school where he fits skill-wise and academically and will actually play at that school by cutting through the clutter of emailed video and squawking voices by using a truly knowledgeable, honest, and respected advisor, then it's worth what you are willing to pay. I also think that a lot of schools have signed (or offered) kids who will never see their campus and it will be hard to tap into that if you are just randomly talking to schools about their current needs. It's all a personal decision. I know guys who invested far more than $7k on travel teams, showcases and lessons with scouts to boost their chances of living their dream (or in more cases dad's).
I think I’ve spent more than $7k since September..... but I don’t spend it with the expectation my son will be recruited. If that happens, great. At the end of the day any scholarship offered will be a fraction of what was actually spent on baseball.
@TerribleBPthrower posted:I think I’ve spent more than $7k since September..... but I don’t spend it with the expectation my son will be recruited. If that happens, great. At the end of the day any scholarship offered will be a fraction of what was actually spent on baseball.
Sometimes parents forget how much money they spend just being there to watch. Two weeks in GA and FL wasn’t cheap (flights, car, hotels, food)
@BaseballJoe posted:If you don't mind sharing, which D3s did your 17 and 19 end up at? And they go to the camps on your own or were they invited by the pertinent schools to attend them?
check your PM, pls.
@Prepster posted:No, and thank you for raising the question. I think there's a significant distinction between those that simply provide a ready platform for college recruiters to view profiles and videos; particularly during this extended dead period.
I was referring solely to the ones that are hired by parents to actively promote players to recruiters. They're virtually always met with skepticism. The only referrals that recruiters tend to value is that which comes from trusted, credible sources. Paid promotional services are the opposite of that.
Ok thank you for the distinction...phew, I already paid for a website platform lol.
@Iowamom23 posted:We used an advisor. We paid about $1,000 five years ago, when son had just finished his freshman year in high school. Probably not worth that much, but it was worthwhile. Neither one of us parents had any experience with recruiting or athletics in general. The advisor provided us with contact information for schools for my son, instructions on how to set up and shoot our video (in some cases they'll do the video for you) and helped my son craft an email and a web site that showed his skills.
They also offered baseball specific advice — is fall travel okay, does it make sense to go to this high level (expensive) tournament or are we better off going with two cheaper tournaments in different geographic regions? Advisor was the first person that son had an adult relationship with and it allowed him to test drive baseball conversations about his philosophy and strategies with non family members. Later in the process, he would call the guy and ask about specific coaches, how to answer questions he was getting from some programs, etc. This part was super valuable.
We didn't want the advisor getting involved between my son and coaches. He literally recommended him to one program that we know of — it was a D2 and we never visited, but based on the recommendation and son's video, they made him an offer. The guy said later the coach was a friend of his who needed a pitcher and he thought my son and the coach would be a good fit.
Having said all that, son ended up at the only D1 baseball school in Iowa, two hours away. He would have gone there with or without the advisor, although I do think the suggestions on how to let coaches know how you are growing and developing through a long recruiting process helped guide son in selling himself to the program.
So mixed bag. Nothing worth nearly $7k, for sure.
Thanks for sharing! $1000 is more palatable relatively speaking, and I'm glad it all worked out for you guys.
@RJM posted:First, you decide what level prospect your son is. From some questions you’ve asked I’m guessing maybe D3. Now you start building a business plan.
What leagues and what programs does my son have the ability to play? What schools does my son have the academic ability to get accepted or baseball may provide leverage to get him accepted? We started with conferences we felt the kids could compete. Then we narrowed the process deciding on schools academically and baseball wise in those conferences.
Then you find out where these schools look for talent by writing to them. Express interest in the college and baseball program. Ask the coaching staff what events they attend a player can be seen.
A player can be seen two ways. 1) Showcases where players are divided up into teams for scrimmages and 2) tournaments travel teams participate that draw college coaches.
There are two ways to find out about the right travel teams to get to the next level. 1) Ask around and tryout. 2) Be recruited to be on a team. #2 is a lot easier than #1. With #2 they’re telling the player he’s a fit. With #1 the player has to convince the coaching staff he’s a fit.
Recruiting changed A LOT from when I played high school ball in the 70’s. The only events were MLB tryout camps and hope for some word of mouth recommendation. Mostly recruiting was college programs finding the player. Now a player can place himself where the eyes are.
I was clueless when my (oldest) daughter went through the softball process. I leaned heavily on a teammate’s dad whose older daughter were already player college ball. Fortunately the high school coach had come from a highly regarded travel program my daughter was already involved.
The second time around with my son I was educated on the process. I knew the what. I had to learn the where and when. Fortunately when it was recruiting time he was invited to play for the right travel programs. His choice worked out well.
One thing I did was attend college games and ask parents how their kids got to the program, where else they looked and how they went through the process. Parents love to talk about their kids. After going through the process many parents like to help/show off what they know about the process. But, never take one person’s word as absolute truth. Each players journey may be different.
Add: When communicating with schools you can help your son with what to say. But he needs to write the emails. Coaches can sniff out when a parent is writing the email. Create an email address for recruiting such as ... name.highschool(year)@email.com
Good luck.
You guessed right! Ivy is also a remote possibility, but not likely unless a big jump in physical maturity happens soon. Thanks for the email tip too!
@RJM posted:Sometimes parents forget how much money they spend just being there to watch. Two weeks in GA and FL wasn’t cheap (flights, car, hotels, food)
I'm trying to pretend they're mini-vacations...
Those trips were our ONLY vacations.
@BaseballJoe posted:Ok thank you for the distinction...phew, I already paid for a website platform lol.
See I would think that this is all about connections / trusted sources and paying $1000 for a website platform is like throwing your money out the window.
@KennieProton posted:See I would think that this is all about connections / trusted sources and paying $1000 for a website platform is like throwing your money out the window.
Is anybody charging that? If so, wow. I would think that a free site on Wix or Google sites or whatever is more than good enough. Heck, just an account to upload videos on YouTube is plenty.
@smokeminside posted:check your PM, pls.
Done!
Wanted to bump this and see if anyone has actually used this service. They are different from NCSA as they do not market your player to coaches. They simply guide you through the process (making videos, lists, emails, calls, camps, admissions, etc.). I've found just about everything they will do can be found on this site. While I don't think the service is worth $7k, I do see value in being able to outsource the supervision of the process. Just don't know how much I'd be willing to pay for it.