Well honestly, I don't believe good players are born, OR taught. Speaking from my own experience, I was cut from every team until I was 17, then all of a sudden the next year finding myself playing on an 18u elite wood bat team before I even played travel ball at any lower level. That summer I also made the local travel team finally and hit around .440, about 100 points better than our second best hitter, who was more of a power hitter. Then I played college for two years, and I've come such a long way compared to where I was when I was 16 or 17 (I'm 21 now), and performed farely well at tryout camps.
I was cut almost every year cause I just wasn't good enough, and since I thebn played at the lowest level I never got any half-decent coaching either.
To me, being born with the talent means that a 6 year old could pick up a bat for the first time and hit the first pitches thrown to us, but how many people do you know of could actually hit the ball the very first time they picked up a bat?
Giving someone the best instruction to me means that you could take any player-crummy or poor, and because he's being coached by one of the best instructors, will become a good player. But Michael Jordan was given some of the best instruction in the world in the minors and never became a half-decent hitter...okay so he wasn't a pre-teen at the time. But I'd bet my life that only about half or less of pro ballplayers only got some of the best instruction in Little League...didn't Bob Feller grow up on a farm?
So the only thing I can conclude with is that good players aren't born with the talent nor coached or taught the talent. I think they are all born with POTENTIAL, the ability to learn, learn from others, and teach yourself, the drive to become better and improve. From what I hear, most latino and dominican republic players don't get much coaching, they just pick teams and play...back in the day they used to use milk cartons as gloves...doesn't sound like they could afford the best instruction. And from what I read all over the net, there are millions of hitting videos, websites, programs, personal coaches, etc. And how many of them who take part of these offers are successful in high school, college, pro? Again, probably about half.
I think it has more to do with their ability to become better and progress, IMO.
Regarding talent at a young age. Some have mentioned youth teams their sons played on and very few of the players continuing on.
Here is a brief description of a 12-13 year old group my son played with. It’s true that only four went on to play college baseball or higher. However, three played college football and one played college basketball. Those 8 were by far the best players and athletes, but only half ended up playing baseball. One of the ones who went to football did fairly well. 2 time NFL MVP and Super Bowl MVP. He was a very good baseball player when he was younger and could have played at least at the college level, but he didn’t.
Point is… Sometimes the reason young kids give up baseball isn’t because of lacking talent, but because they are doing something else.
Guess I would agree with those who say great athletes are born (doesn’t always show up right away though) and good baseball players are a combination of natural and learned ability. The very greatest baseball players (I think) were born with natural ability that relates to baseball if not athletics.
Biggest thing is… I love to see kids who prove everyone wrong. (even me)
Baseball is a game that has no absolutes. I really do believe in miracles… have seen some first hand.
Here is a brief description of a 12-13 year old group my son played with. It’s true that only four went on to play college baseball or higher. However, three played college football and one played college basketball. Those 8 were by far the best players and athletes, but only half ended up playing baseball. One of the ones who went to football did fairly well. 2 time NFL MVP and Super Bowl MVP. He was a very good baseball player when he was younger and could have played at least at the college level, but he didn’t.
Point is… Sometimes the reason young kids give up baseball isn’t because of lacking talent, but because they are doing something else.
Guess I would agree with those who say great athletes are born (doesn’t always show up right away though) and good baseball players are a combination of natural and learned ability. The very greatest baseball players (I think) were born with natural ability that relates to baseball if not athletics.
Biggest thing is… I love to see kids who prove everyone wrong. (even me)
Baseball is a game that has no absolutes. I really do believe in miracles… have seen some first hand.
PG
You bting up a great point of what happens to the 12/13 year olds as time moves on.
My son played on a 12 year old LL team that was loaded with talent. About half of those kids went to be real good HS players and my son was the only player from that group that went on to play college ball.
For most of them it was not lack of talent , it was lack of desire and passion for the game that made them ceaase playing.
You bting up a great point of what happens to the 12/13 year olds as time moves on.
My son played on a 12 year old LL team that was loaded with talent. About half of those kids went to be real good HS players and my son was the only player from that group that went on to play college ball.
For most of them it was not lack of talent , it was lack of desire and passion for the game that made them ceaase playing.
PG,
I'll second that proving everyone wrong -- love to watch Eckstein!
Can't come up with the NFL guy it's racking my grey matter.
I'll second that proving everyone wrong -- love to watch Eckstein!
Can't come up with the NFL guy it's racking my grey matter.
Got the NFL player...I'd say he proved a lot of folks wrong on the way up!
Kurt Warner played baseball with my oldest son. I tried to talk him into playing baseball over football. Good thing he wasn't buying it!
Interesting also is that on my youngest sons 13 year old team Tim Dwight and Dedric Ward played. Both went on to have good NFL careers as wide receivers and kick returners. Both could have played baseball if they wanted to. Neither played high school baseball. Zach Johnson also played on the youth team, but not in high school and he is now on the PGA tour.
My son was the worst player on that 13 year old team. The best player and athlete at that age was a 5'8 phenom who was the fastest, strongest, best pitcher, best everything. He did go on to play small college baseball and had a successful career (now a high school coach) but many others passed right by him in both size and ability.
Interesting also is that on my youngest sons 13 year old team Tim Dwight and Dedric Ward played. Both went on to have good NFL careers as wide receivers and kick returners. Both could have played baseball if they wanted to. Neither played high school baseball. Zach Johnson also played on the youth team, but not in high school and he is now on the PGA tour.
My son was the worst player on that 13 year old team. The best player and athlete at that age was a 5'8 phenom who was the fastest, strongest, best pitcher, best everything. He did go on to play small college baseball and had a successful career (now a high school coach) but many others passed right by him in both size and ability.
PG,
Your last post implies Tim Dwight was no longer playing? I think he is still playing - New England maybe? Good player.
Kurt Warner - I can never get that image of his wife at the Super Bowl out of my mind. Some sort of mullet-flat top fusion hair cut
Your last post implies Tim Dwight was no longer playing? I think he is still playing - New England maybe? Good player.
Kurt Warner - I can never get that image of his wife at the Super Bowl out of my mind. Some sort of mullet-flat top fusion hair cut
My sons AAA city team has only 2 guys that went on to college. His regional all star team had most of the players go on to college and the minors.
A great example of a guy who was not great until he reached 16-17 was Nick Weglarz (94th pick 05). He was cut from the Niagara Falls AAA team and that spurred him on. I personally feel that too much early success can be a bad thing.
A great example of a guy who was not great until he reached 16-17 was Nick Weglarz (94th pick 05). He was cut from the Niagara Falls AAA team and that spurred him on. I personally feel that too much early success can be a bad thing.
Can definately relate to Nick Weglarz as he's from my area, went to a high school about half an hour away from mine. So he grew up in the same league with the same coaching as I did, and both of us not becoming good ball players till our late teens, and neither of us got that strong of coaching. Bringing me to another point. If you're cut from your local travel team then you're stuck playing at the lowest level of compeition. And you just can't rely on any good coaching to help you make the team next year. You gotta do it yourself.
CD,
You are right Dwight is with the Patriots and is used as a punt returner primarily...does well and has received good reviews...
You are right Dwight is with the Patriots and is used as a punt returner primarily...does well and has received good reviews...
Athletic ability isn't the only thing that they have to be born with. They also need heart and desire. Of course good coaching improves their chances.
We've all seen the junkyard dog kid that doesn't have the athletic ability but gets after it. Some of them are roaming the majors.
We've all seen the junkyard dog kid that doesn't have the athletic ability but gets after it. Some of them are roaming the majors.
Here we get right back to our friends in the NCAA. 85 football scholarships and 11.7 baseball. If paying for college is a concern (and it is for most of America) what would you tell your son that had equally great potential of playing in both?
Savannah
Are you taking into consideration long term medical expenses from football injuries?
Are you taking into consideration long term medical expenses from football injuries?
Of all the sports that are out there, I believe that baseball puts the most pressure on a young athlete.
It's those players that over come that pressure that succeed!
How many of those great players, That had pushy Parents and or Coaches, that put to much pressure on the player to win, win, win, At 10, 12, years old. that were burnt out by age 14?
I always told my LL ( yes I was a Parent Coach) that real baseball doesn't start or end at 12yrs. old.
Real baseball starts at 15-16 plus years old.
And that all those great players at 12 may not be playing at 16.
Burnt out, injury to arm, legs. Grades-Grades-Grades!
I did not want to become that pushy parent, even though I catch myself all the time being one. Fortunately my Son puts me in my place, and I love him for that!
I new not to coach after he was 12yrs. old, to let them experiance all the coaching that was available, some good, some bad.
Just because your cut from that elite team, Don't make your Varsity HS team as a Sophmore. Doesn't mean you can't play, It just means you can't play for Them!
Get use to it, how many players that get released from the minors, majors, and then get picked up by another Team.
Justs keep playing.
As for Parents you must learn everyday, All the things we should are should not Do.
And we must learn how to keep are mouths shut, and let the Kids play ball!!!!!!!
It's those players that over come that pressure that succeed!
How many of those great players, That had pushy Parents and or Coaches, that put to much pressure on the player to win, win, win, At 10, 12, years old. that were burnt out by age 14?
I always told my LL ( yes I was a Parent Coach) that real baseball doesn't start or end at 12yrs. old.
Real baseball starts at 15-16 plus years old.
And that all those great players at 12 may not be playing at 16.
Burnt out, injury to arm, legs. Grades-Grades-Grades!
I did not want to become that pushy parent, even though I catch myself all the time being one. Fortunately my Son puts me in my place, and I love him for that!
I new not to coach after he was 12yrs. old, to let them experiance all the coaching that was available, some good, some bad.
Just because your cut from that elite team, Don't make your Varsity HS team as a Sophmore. Doesn't mean you can't play, It just means you can't play for Them!
Get use to it, how many players that get released from the minors, majors, and then get picked up by another Team.
Justs keep playing.
As for Parents you must learn everyday, All the things we should are should not Do.
And we must learn how to keep are mouths shut, and let the Kids play ball!!!!!!!
TheEh That pushy parent/pushy coach comment got me thinking. Names like Tiger Woods, Vince Carter, Williams sisters and on and on. Maybe we don't push fard enough ?
How many great athletes stand up and thank one or both parents ?
Should a parent get involved and make sure the guitar player,pianist and athlete explores the depthy of their kids talent ?
How many great athletes stand up and thank one or both parents ?
Should a parent get involved and make sure the guitar player,pianist and athlete explores the depthy of their kids talent ?
[QUOTE]Originally posted by theEH:
Just because your cut from that elite team, Don't make your Varsity HS team as a Sophmore. Doesn't mean you can't play, It just means you can't play for Them!
Get use to it, how many players that get released from the minors, majors, and then get picked up by another Team.
theEH:
Great point. As I recall, something like this happened to Michael Jordan (didn't make his high school team AND was passed over by the Trailblazers in the first round), Lou Brock, and so many countless others.
Ya just gotta believe in yourself and keep playing.
Just because your cut from that elite team, Don't make your Varsity HS team as a Sophmore. Doesn't mean you can't play, It just means you can't play for Them!
Get use to it, how many players that get released from the minors, majors, and then get picked up by another Team.
theEH:
Great point. As I recall, something like this happened to Michael Jordan (didn't make his high school team AND was passed over by the Trailblazers in the first round), Lou Brock, and so many countless others.
Ya just gotta believe in yourself and keep playing.
Bobble head,
I guess what I meant! Was is it your dream are your childs dream!
We must check are selfs as Parents everyday and learn from are Mistakes, and Successes.
and share the Info!
There's a fine line between Pushy and encouragement!
And if you push to hard the child will resent you, the sport, and the Coach!
It will just not be worth the pressure there put under.
And that is somtimes why a great ballplayer doesn't make it at the next level.
Believe you Me, I'm no expert on parenting.
They don't come with instructions on there Butt!
Just we as parents.
Need to be careful not to push to hard, and to let them grow on there own terms into fine young men.
I heard a good one this weekend. ( Helicopter Parents )
Because we Hover. LOL
I guess what I meant! Was is it your dream are your childs dream!
We must check are selfs as Parents everyday and learn from are Mistakes, and Successes.
and share the Info!
There's a fine line between Pushy and encouragement!
And if you push to hard the child will resent you, the sport, and the Coach!
It will just not be worth the pressure there put under.
And that is somtimes why a great ballplayer doesn't make it at the next level.
Believe you Me, I'm no expert on parenting.
They don't come with instructions on there Butt!
Just we as parents.
Need to be careful not to push to hard, and to let them grow on there own terms into fine young men.
I heard a good one this weekend. ( Helicopter Parents )
Because we Hover. LOL
The Eh I agree but there are some who need a push. My parents didn't push me and I had opportunities that I (inmature 18yo) passed up.
I never had to push but I probably would have if I needed to. I never even got upset with a bad mark. He is a typical lazy teen and for several years did only what the team did as a whole. He has been lifting for just over a year and is behind in physical development. I should have pushed earlier but I knew college would be were he would develop his physical strength. I do believe that some kids if you push too hard will oush right back.
I never had to push but I probably would have if I needed to. I never even got upset with a bad mark. He is a typical lazy teen and for several years did only what the team did as a whole. He has been lifting for just over a year and is behind in physical development. I should have pushed earlier but I knew college would be were he would develop his physical strength. I do believe that some kids if you push too hard will oush right back.
so if all it is is gifts michael vick would be the greatest quarterback of all time yet brady and manning are far superior and lesser talents
larry bird magic johnson neither great athletes
but undeniably great players
give me performance i'll take the guy who can play if he's fast or has great power or a canon for and arm these are plusses, look at the world champs not a super athlete among them
who judges the tools? compared to who ? there is only one willie mays
there are so many great players who are not 5 tool
"driven" is a great word, keep working, shagging flies, taking grounders tee work etc that is what makes great players gifts are nice but there's not much you can do if you don't have. the so called five tools
the examples i posted are proof you can do it anyway
larry bird magic johnson neither great athletes
but undeniably great players
give me performance i'll take the guy who can play if he's fast or has great power or a canon for and arm these are plusses, look at the world champs not a super athlete among them
who judges the tools? compared to who ? there is only one willie mays
there are so many great players who are not 5 tool
"driven" is a great word, keep working, shagging flies, taking grounders tee work etc that is what makes great players gifts are nice but there's not much you can do if you don't have. the so called five tools
the examples i posted are proof you can do it anyway
quote:Originally posted by Fungo:
I remember this post from years ago. I’ll make it a two part question:
Question #1. Are great players born with the natural ability to hit and throw better than everyone else or is this a learned process over the years?
Question #2. Can you take an average pre teen player, get him the best instructions possible, and mold him into a great player?
Your thoughts.
Fungo
This is a very interesting post to me at this time. There is a player that we've been associated with all through LL and high school whom's parents have always somewhat bragged on their son's "natural" abilites. Many times these parents have talked openly about their son's "god given" talent. This has gone on for years. Recently the truth was exposed when we learned that their son has been getting and is still getting specialized baseball lessons for a fee.
chicks
Are you saying these two things are mutually exclusive?
Is it possible this kids DOES have natural talent and that is WHY they spend the money on good instructors?
After all, most folks would not spend big money on a kid with little to no natural talent.
On the flip side, folks whose kids show a lot of talent are interested in furthering their development.
Are you saying these two things are mutually exclusive?
Is it possible this kids DOES have natural talent and that is WHY they spend the money on good instructors?
After all, most folks would not spend big money on a kid with little to no natural talent.
On the flip side, folks whose kids show a lot of talent are interested in furthering their development.
I never associated "natural ablities" or "god given" talent to mean a player never needed lessons in his life. Free or paid.
Natural abilities and talents just helps to make the whole developmental process easier.
If a batter has a nice, easy natural swing, I would imagine he could get better with working with a professional, if parents have the financial resources to do it, that's up to them.
If a pitcher has a natural loose arm, long legs, and height I suppose someone could take those things that god gave him and improve upon his pitching.
However, making people think that he just "popped" out that way, without instruction of any kind, is deceitful.
Natural abilities and talents just helps to make the whole developmental process easier.
If a batter has a nice, easy natural swing, I would imagine he could get better with working with a professional, if parents have the financial resources to do it, that's up to them.
If a pitcher has a natural loose arm, long legs, and height I suppose someone could take those things that god gave him and improve upon his pitching.
However, making people think that he just "popped" out that way, without instruction of any kind, is deceitful.
Have you ever stopped to wonder how the "greats" we grew up with Mantle, Mays, Dimaggio, Feller, Gibson, Koufax et al ever became what they were without all the "instruction" that we have now ?
In most cases the "instruction" came from a family member
In most cases the "instruction" came from a family member
good point tr, off the wall and stick ball was mostly what every one did back then.so god given talent?the old days weren't so bad.
TR
I agree 100%.
I agree 100%.
TR,
didn't they go to showcase events????
Or was it our travel teams??
didn't they go to showcase events????
Or was it our travel teams??
TPM
There is nothing I enjoy more than watching a parent admit that their sons success comes in part from "god given" talent.
There are a lot of HARD working kids out there who never meet with success simply because they were NOT so fortunate.
While saying "my son got where he is today because he worked hard to get there" is a true statement - it can be taken by others to mean "if your son would have worked harder he would be here too." - and while sometimes that is also a true statement, sometimes work has nothing to do with it.
I may be way off base (maybe even out in the parking lot) but perhaps these folks were not trying to be deceitful, but rather trying to be humble by giving credit not to him, but to what was given to him.
There is nothing I enjoy more than watching a parent admit that their sons success comes in part from "god given" talent.
There are a lot of HARD working kids out there who never meet with success simply because they were NOT so fortunate.
While saying "my son got where he is today because he worked hard to get there" is a true statement - it can be taken by others to mean "if your son would have worked harder he would be here too." - and while sometimes that is also a true statement, sometimes work has nothing to do with it.
I may be way off base (maybe even out in the parking lot) but perhaps these folks were not trying to be deceitful, but rather trying to be humble by giving credit not to him, but to what was given to him.
quote:Originally posted by AParent:
chicks
Are you saying these two things are mutually exclusive?
Is it possible this kids DOES have natural talent and that is WHY they spend the money on good instructors?
After all, most folks would not spend big money on a kid with little to no natural talent.
On the flip side, folks whose kids show a lot of talent are interested in furthering their development.
They think he popped out with all these natural abilities and they've always hidden the fact they he takes regular lessons year around. I guess it's more like Tigerpawmom says about being deceitful about it all. I do believe that some kids are born with better physical abilities than others.
To answer the original question, i think that many players are born with a certain amount of ability. However even if your born with all the five tools in baseball, there is a chance you will never excel at the sport.
There are many players who were not born with the same abilities that turn out to be outstanding baseball players. For example David epstien (i think thats how you spell his last name) is one of the better shortstops in the major leagues right now, however he lacks in many if not all areas in terms of talent. He doesn't have the strongest arm, the quickest feet, the softest hands, doesnt hit for power, and is average at hitting for average. But his energy and work ethic have carried him.
Yes alot of the player are born with ability, and you need some to go places, but hard work beats just pure talent.
There are many players who were not born with the same abilities that turn out to be outstanding baseball players. For example David epstien (i think thats how you spell his last name) is one of the better shortstops in the major leagues right now, however he lacks in many if not all areas in terms of talent. He doesn't have the strongest arm, the quickest feet, the softest hands, doesnt hit for power, and is average at hitting for average. But his energy and work ethic have carried him.
Yes alot of the player are born with ability, and you need some to go places, but hard work beats just pure talent.
HScatcher #6
I agree 100%
However, the original question "are great players born or taught" in no way envisions that one player works harder that the other.
To answer whether great players are born or taught you have to assume that both the naturally talented player and the player who is being taught will both work HARD.
The question is whether natural talent, or teaching will make him great in the end.
(and no fair saying BOTH - that's a no-brainer)
quote:Yes alot of the player are born with ability, and you need some to go places, but hard work beats just pure talent
I agree 100%
However, the original question "are great players born or taught" in no way envisions that one player works harder that the other.
To answer whether great players are born or taught you have to assume that both the naturally talented player and the player who is being taught will both work HARD.
The question is whether natural talent, or teaching will make him great in the end.
(and no fair saying BOTH - that's a no-brainer)
chicks
You obviously know their motives better than I do.
I just like to look at things from different viewpoints, just in case. It's just a habit of mine.
You obviously know their motives better than I do.
I just like to look at things from different viewpoints, just in case. It's just a habit of mine.
AParent,
I am so sorry that you misunderstood my post.
I think that I should have read it over, the last part anyway. I was in a hurry. please reread with the following corrections.
"However, making people think that he just "popped" out that way, without instruction of any kind,when asked is deceitful.
In other words, I was trying to be tactful, in saying, it really doesn't matter does it, if the player is able to get to the level he desires, whether it's a natural thing going on or helped by paying for it.
I am so sorry that you misunderstood my post.
I think that I should have read it over, the last part anyway. I was in a hurry. please reread with the following corrections.
"However, making people think that he just "popped" out that way, without instruction of any kind,when asked is deceitful.
In other words, I was trying to be tactful, in saying, it really doesn't matter does it, if the player is able to get to the level he desires, whether it's a natural thing going on or helped by paying for it.
Natural or Created Athletes?
Some Athletes or just born with the natural ability to run, jump, hit the ball with good hand- eye cordination. And they never have to work as hard as others!
And some Athletes have to work hard everyday to just keep up!
In the long run the Athlete that has learned how to work hard and never gave up could pass the natural athlete in ability!
The natural athlete may never have learned how to work at getting better and let the created athlete pass him by, by not knowing how to work hard.
All athletes need a structsured environment, all the natural ability would be lost if not properly utilized with proper focus on a certain goal!
Some Athletes or just born with the natural ability to run, jump, hit the ball with good hand- eye cordination. And they never have to work as hard as others!
And some Athletes have to work hard everyday to just keep up!
In the long run the Athlete that has learned how to work hard and never gave up could pass the natural athlete in ability!
The natural athlete may never have learned how to work at getting better and let the created athlete pass him by, by not knowing how to work hard.
All athletes need a structsured environment, all the natural ability would be lost if not properly utilized with proper focus on a certain goal!
TPM
No problem. I understand.
Ironically I can't see how it would be any more prestigious to claim your son was born talented, vs. admitting he learned the skills through lessons.
Either way, he turned out to be a good ball player. What more can you ask for?
No problem. I understand.
Ironically I can't see how it would be any more prestigious to claim your son was born talented, vs. admitting he learned the skills through lessons.
Either way, he turned out to be a good ball player. What more can you ask for?
quote:Originally posted by AParent:
TPM
No problem. I understand.
Ironically I can't see how it would be any more prestigious to claim your son was born talented, vs. admitting he learned the skills through lessons.
Either way, he turned out to be a good ball player. What more can you ask for?
If they hide the fact that they take lessons all the time then they hope that the scouts at the next level will think it's all natural and "Boy, just think what we can do with him when we give him expert instruction!".
Chicks,
I am not really sure about this one, but I think that most scouts are pretty good at evaluating talent, that's their job, though it isn't always fool proof. I don't remember any coach or scout asking if son took lessons.
I am not sure whether he or the college recruiting coach cares if a player has had paid lessons all of his life or not. A player can be taught how to hit or pitch correctly, but the real learning of the game takes place on the field, in playing the game. I find this sixth sense of the game to be a players greatest asset. You can't buy that, I think scouts know that when they see it. These things are taken into consideration when being evaluated.
In college the bottom line is, what can this player do for me NOW. So if parents have decided to prepare their player for that next level , to improve upon his chances of securing a good scholarship, than more power to them.
In the end, it really doesn't matter, if the player gets the job done, the goal was accomplished.
The only thing I objected to in your post and presummed was that the parents when asked avoided the isssue. Which really wasn't my business anyway.
In the end, it really doesn't matter.
I am not really sure about this one, but I think that most scouts are pretty good at evaluating talent, that's their job, though it isn't always fool proof. I don't remember any coach or scout asking if son took lessons.
I am not sure whether he or the college recruiting coach cares if a player has had paid lessons all of his life or not. A player can be taught how to hit or pitch correctly, but the real learning of the game takes place on the field, in playing the game. I find this sixth sense of the game to be a players greatest asset. You can't buy that, I think scouts know that when they see it. These things are taken into consideration when being evaluated.
In college the bottom line is, what can this player do for me NOW. So if parents have decided to prepare their player for that next level , to improve upon his chances of securing a good scholarship, than more power to them.
In the end, it really doesn't matter, if the player gets the job done, the goal was accomplished.
The only thing I objected to in your post and presummed was that the parents when asked avoided the isssue. Which really wasn't my business anyway.
In the end, it really doesn't matter.
quote:Originally posted by Tiger Paw Mom:
Chicks,
I am not really sure about this one, but I think that most scouts are pretty good at evaluating talent, that's their job, though it isn't always fool proof. I don't remember any coach or scout asking if son took lessons.
I am not sure whether he or the college recruiting coach cares if a player has had paid lessons all of his life or not. A player can be taught how to hit or pitch correctly, but the real learning of the game takes place on the field, in playing the game. I find this sixth sense of the game to be a players greatest asset. You can't buy that, I think scouts know that when they see it. These things are taken into consideration when being evaluated.
In college the bottom line is, what can this player do for me NOW. So if parents have decided to prepare their player for that next level , to improve upon his chances of securing a good scholarship, than more power to them.
In the end, it really doesn't matter, if the player gets the job done, the goal was accomplished.
The only thing I objected to in your post and presummed was that the parents when asked avoided the isssue. Which really wasn't my business anyway.
In the end, it really doesn't matter.
Exactly and that's really the whole point of my post is why hide it. What are they thinking?
quote:I am not sure whether he or the college recruiting coach cares if a player has had paid lessons all of his life or not.
TPM, The spin on this is that if a player has had lessons, and has learned from those lessons, there may be more of a perception that he is coachable. It's not given, but it may be an intangable on the plus side at recruiting time.
One thing that I think is kinda interesting about the responses is that everyone is dividing natural ability and instruction in half, then placing "heart" as a kind of mystical plus. I believe that the ability to learn is just as much a natural ability as speed, power, etc.
And just as you can do drills to improve your speed, you can also work to improve your perceptions. I think a great example of this is Jason Bay's SBs. He's not that fast, but he was something like 23-23 stealing last year. He got caught, I believe, a few times the year before. He didn't get any faster and I don't think he improved his technique, but his knowledge improved. And for Bay, I think his greatest natural physical attribute might be his head (yeah, I know his head can't catch balls or run, but you get the point...)
And just as you can do drills to improve your speed, you can also work to improve your perceptions. I think a great example of this is Jason Bay's SBs. He's not that fast, but he was something like 23-23 stealing last year. He got caught, I believe, a few times the year before. He didn't get any faster and I don't think he improved his technique, but his knowledge improved. And for Bay, I think his greatest natural physical attribute might be his head (yeah, I know his head can't catch balls or run, but you get the point...)
Chicks
I am going way out on a limb with this one but...
Most often when they see a player and think -
"boy, just what can we do with him when we give him expert insturction!" - it's because they see raw talent with easily recognizable flaws that can be corrected with good instruction.
If this kid is good because of years of expert instruction those types of flaws would have been corrected years ago and the scouts would not have that - wow we can fix that issue.
Scouts may not be perfect, but they are a whole lot smarter than we sometimes give them credit for.
I am going way out on a limb with this one but...
Most often when they see a player and think -
"boy, just what can we do with him when we give him expert insturction!" - it's because they see raw talent with easily recognizable flaws that can be corrected with good instruction.
If this kid is good because of years of expert instruction those types of flaws would have been corrected years ago and the scouts would not have that - wow we can fix that issue.
Scouts may not be perfect, but they are a whole lot smarter than we sometimes give them credit for.