Lots of stuff we've talked about on this board over the years in here - velocity hike, over use and the art of pitching vs. velocity - but a pretty good article, nonetheless....
Original Post
Replies sorted oldest to newest
A completely article empty of any usable takeaways or facts. Probably took 15 minutes to write under a "I need content now! so I can get paid!" deadline.
I will give him a D grade on grammar and spelling being correct.
Yes, Velo gets guys out, velo gets injured.
But there is no alternative. Throwing upper 80s worked in the 80s but now it is batting practice. Greg maddux would get hammered now and babe ruth or ted williams couldn't touch modern pitchers (unless they get several years of modern training).
There is a glorification of the past by conservative baseball fans but all that "they threw 300 innings, pitched every 4 days and did not get injured" is eyewash.
Yes they threw more but the percentage of max effort pitches was much lower because there were only 3-4 guys per team that could hurt you, now you simply can't roll one in to the number 9 hitter because he will hit a bomb if you do and that is hard for the arm.
And I think the soccer editor wrote the article headline. "Are injuries part of pitching now?"
My apologies for the saltiness. I'm on a really long drive across Texas. But I do get to see 5 distinct ecological regions today.
Go44dad posted:And I think the soccer editor wrote the article headline. "Are injuries part of pitching now?"
My apologies for the saltiness. I'm on a really long drive across Texas. But I do get to see 5 distinct ecological regions today.
Didn't your mother ever tell you to not text and drive!!!!!
Until the adults wise up, the kids will suffer.
Dominik85 posted:Greg Maddux would get hammered now... and babe ruth or ted williams couldn't touch modern pitchers (unless they get several years of modern training).
Say what?
If anything Maddux would be more successful than ever now. Movement on pitches & hitting spots will always be successful. And Ruth & Williams needing years of modern training to hit modern pitching? Can you imagine Ruth with a protein shake or two instead of pre-game beers & hot dogs? Let alone weight training? Let alone swinging a modern sized bat?
At any rate: no, I don't think we should just accept injuries as "part of pitching"
I wish the doctor had noted where the "five times more likely to have an arm injury" came from. Or is he pulling numbers from the air? I don't disagree with the article. I wish it was more evidence driven.
RJM posted:I wish the doctor had noted where the "five times more likely to have an arm injury" came from. Or is he pulling numbers from the air? I don't disagree with the article. I wish it was more evidence driven.
Pick up any research article from ASMI, Dr. Andrews, etc. It's all documented there.
https://mnhopper1s.files.wordp...-school-baseball.pdf
Just slipped a note to my son along with the article. I asked him to start throwing like the '92-'98 Maddux. And to stop working out, stop pulling the bands, stop working his forearms in the rice bucket, stop the long toss and stop going to that pitching guy he goes to for mechanics. Maybe that will bring his velocity down to an acceptable limit for the author.
RJM posted:I wish the doctor had noted where the "five times more likely to have an arm injury" came from. Or is he pulling numbers from the air? I don't disagree with the article. I wish it was more evidence driven.
"Air". Good choice of words for a family board.
TPM posted:Go44dad posted:And I think the soccer editor wrote the article headline. "Are injuries part of pitching now?"
My apologies for the saltiness. I'm on a really long drive across Texas. But I do get to see 5 distinct ecological regions today.
Didn't your mother ever tell you to not text and drive!!!!!
Tuned mom out in sixth grade. I've done alright. But she still keeps trying!
Son was driving. He's got his learner's permit now.
Go44dad posted:TPM posted:Go44dad posted:And I think the soccer editor wrote the article headline. "Are injuries part of pitching now?"
My apologies for the saltiness. I'm on a really long drive across Texas. But I do get to see 5 distinct ecological regions today.
Didn't your mother ever tell you to not text and drive!!!!!
Tuned mom out in sixth grade. I've done alright. But she still keeps trying!
Son was driving. He's got his learner's permit now.
Driving advice from mom at 1:20
Dominik85 posted:Yes, Velo gets guys out, velo gets injured.
But there is no alternative. Throwing upper 80s worked in the 80s but now it is batting practice. Greg maddux would get hammered now and babe ruth or ted williams couldn't touch modern pitchers (unless they get several years of modern training).
There is a glorification of the past by conservative baseball fans but all that "they threw 300 innings, pitched every 4 days and did not get injured" is eyewash.
Yes they threw more but the percentage of max effort pitches was much lower because there were only 3-4 guys per team that could hurt you, now you simply can't roll one in to the number 9 hitter because he will hit a bomb if you do and that is hard for the arm.
"Greg Maddux would get hammered now". Please...
I happen to agree with much that was said in this article. My son's issues (mostly minor stuff) really didn't start until the velo hit over 95.
TJS isn't a curse anymore, and doesn't stop a team from drafting you in the first round, like it was manybyears ago. South Carolina's Schmidt is a good example.
Of course you have to have more stuff than a 95mph FB, and most guys drafted with high velocityactually do have 3 good pitches.
What I get from the article is that young children should learn how to pitch before they develop higher velocity, and not before their body is ready. What I mean is that young pitchers should wait before the body can handle those higher velocity numbers.
JMO
TPM posted:I happen to agree with much that was said in this article. My son's issues (mostly minors) really didn't start until the velo hit over 95.
TJS isn't a curse anymore, and doesn't stop a team from drafting you in the first round, like it was manybyears ago. South Carolina's Schmidt is a good example.
Of course you have to have more stuff than a 95mph FB, and most guys drafted with high velocityactually do have 3 good pitches.
What I get from the article is that young children should learn how to pitch before they develop higher velocity, and not before their body is ready. What I mean is that young pitchers should wait before the body can handle those higher velocity numbers.
JMO
Took the words out my mouth... 100% agree! Son is a Greg Maddux type pitcher with velo upside, but I've discouraged him on gaining velo until his body matures. He'll be the dreaded 16 in a week and is starting to show a lot of man muscle, so this fall / winter I'll let him start to get the velo up... He's pumped to say the least!!!
Good for you. My son was a hard thrower from rhe beginning, but never encouraged to throw harder until he reached college, where he everything came together.
But his highest velo didnt come until he had a full beard, fuller frame and that was around 27.
I know velo is everything, but if your sons show projection, its ok to let them learn to pitch first.
TPM posted:Good for you. My son was a hard thrower from rhe beginning, but never encouraged to throw harder until he reached college, where he everything came together.
But his highest velo didnt come until he had a full beard, fuller frame and that was around 27.
I know velo is everything, but if your sons show projection, its ok to let them learn to pitch first.
Location and change of speed is everything to me, but velo has to come at some point. He hit 83, 2 years ago and I told him to become a pitcher and not a thrower (he has)... In other words, stop trying to throw so hard and just pitch. He's been very successful at the Varsity level and so far against travel kids up to 18-19U. Guess I'll let him loose this fall / winter, and work on the velo thing... His body is ready from what I can tell!
Injuries have always been part of the game. The 10-day DL is being abused by the Dodgers for reasons other than actual injuries.
The game is what it is. Pitchers constantly get hurt. We have better monitoring technology and service time rules make it so anyone who has a slight tear of their UCL has TJ rather than rehab for 12 months like they used to decades ago.
It is what it is. Velocity is higher than ever which obviously plays a role but it's not the only thing, and probably not even the most relevant thing regarding injuries. It's the fact that basically everyone can hit now, and max effort pitching is required to get everyone out. A slap-hitting utility guy is a way better hitter today than the utility / glove-first guys of the 1960s, I promise you that.
Folks, scroll back up & spend some time reading/studying Bulldog's post on the research article. PAY CLOSE attention to pg 6-7-8. And pg 11-14.
Try to gain enough knowledge about what's going on "in there" (both elbow & shoulder) to have a very frank discussion with any potential coach or pitching instructor. As well as your son. He needs to understand (be able to visualize)...you science minded folks may be able to build some "thing" with rubberbands to demonstrate...
IMO, the velo is secondary. Primary is understanding the mechanics of a pitch (and your body), all the way through the process, to pitch to the spot, not just the zone, regardless of what pitch is thrown.
"blowing it out" is just a recipe for injury, or worse, disaster...
Pitching ain't like a short order cook...more like prepping to be a Gourmet chef... demands skill & technique.
OK, I don't have anything to do with HSS, but I saved this page so I could understand what son was facing with torn labrum & TOS in '15. He did not go under the knife, Dr. Andrews did the stemcell & PRP's. Knock on wood, so far so good.
This link will show ya'll several articles, with lots of visuals & photos on Baseball specific injuries Recommended reading & viewing!