Are offers negotiable?

I would not negotiate with anyone unless you're ready to walk away from the deal.

Sounds to me like a really sweet deal and I doubt you'd do much better than that. If you'd be willing to walk away from it over books, then it might not be the right school?

I feel the same way as justbb. Hard for me to imagine that books would be a deal breaker.

It seems like a very nice offer to me.

quote:

Originally posted by Catcher Mom:
When the offers start rolling in soon--Are they negotiable? For example, son received offer of 100% tuition and board, but coach said college won't allow them to offer books. The college in question is a NJCAA Div. 1 school and I read in another forum that NJCAA says that you can offer books and fees also. If negotiable what is the best approach?

Have a wonderful day!!!

Ouch!! I agree with justbaseball, everything is negotiable (sounds like you already did), you need to be confident enough to walk away. If the coach already said it is not included, I would not want to have him question his offer to your son for two years since he is making the line-up card.

I would also not be so bold about offers rolling in, because they would already be Rollin...

If the coach said that the "college won't allow them to offer books", then getting books paid for is not negotiable.

Thanks guys for the advice. Being new to this game not sure how far to take things.

It seems like a wonderful offer--Trying now to see where kid stands.

Thanks again!!!

keep in mind, too that books can be found for cheap on the internet. Half .com, get textbooks, etc. We've saved a bundle the last couple years!!
I wouldn't let books stand in the way, if everything else is to your liking.

I have to agree with justbaseball. Of course you can negotiate anything -- but you do it with possible consequences. I always looked at a verbal scholarship offer as non-binding and felt it could disappear if the wrong words were said up until the NLI was signed. I think the best way to negotiate a baseball scholarship is BEFORE the offer is made and do it in a subtle way. I did this during the pre-offer discussions and after my son had talked with the coaches. I said the financial aspect of his college education would involve me and his mother since we would have to pay for anything his scholarship didn’t cover therefore we would like to be involved in the scholarship ($$$) offer portion of the talks. I also said the amount of the scholarship would be a factor in where he went to school. Understand too that he had more than one offer on the table and all the coaches knew this so I felt we could negotiate some of we had to. Did this approach make any difference in the offer? No way of telling if it did or didn’t, but I felt like I was doing “my part”.

If any school would have offered to pay for half of my books I probably would have asked where to sign. But I also just wanted to play baseball and the school that fit me best was a d3. That's where my point of view is coming from. After making loan payments the last few months I'm wishing they could have given some help with books.

Books are $600 - 1000 per semester. Are you willing to mess with your son's baseball/college future for that? Is it worth the risk to be able to say you got 100% of everything?

I go with the majority here.

This is interesting. My son's school pays for books, have to be returned or you are charged. Another school told him he got books and could sell them.

I didn't realize there were so many book DEALS out there!

quote:

Originally posted by Fungo:
I think the best way to negotiate a baseball scholarship is BEFORE the offer is made and do it in a subtle way.

Exactly!

I even went so far as to tell a few coaches, "I'm not good at negotiating so whatever you offer is what its going to be." That, in itself I suppose was a form of negotiation.

I didn't do it to put them on the spot...I really DON'T like negotiating.

I don't think I've ever paid more than $250 for books a semester for the past 3 years including summers. I scour the internet for the best price.

I am 100% sure that coach's offer is not negotiable. Remember, too, what I had said earlier about that tuition covering the out of state expense also. In other words, the offer of tuition is tuition paid whether you are an in state student or a student out of state that is included in the Western Undergraduate Exchange. The scholarship of tuition is good for taking 12 sem. hours as well as 17 hours.

CM - Thanks for asking this question. I had wondered the same thing but never asked. It helped me to see the responses of our experienced websters. My gut kinda told me what Just BB and Fungo replied; only if ready to walk away and nothings binding until the "ink is dry" on the NLI. This post helps me to stop second guessing myself on this subject.

Shouth out to Just BB and Fungo - personal thanks for your wisdom over the years. I have enjoyed the helpful and hilarious responses!

I think the best negotiating is that if the offer leaves a parent with more than they can handle, and the school is the right fit, they need to tell the coach that they need some help to find a way to make it work.

With the pitchers, catchers, and middle guys catching the largest portion of the 11.7 scholarships, spread over four years, a coach might only have the equivalent of three full scholarships to offer in a year.

So, most of them recruit about 15, on average, per year.

That spreads those 3 scholarships pretty thin.

When you go in there demanding a full ride, you need to make sure your son can command that kind of offer. (Not many can)


So, at State U, at say $15,000 per year, the dollar difference between a 1/3 average offer and 1/2 is $2,500.

I can assure you that there are others in line that will take the 1/3 opportunity at State U, if the $2,500 is an issue.

Now, $2,500 is a lot of money, but not when you're looking at a $15,000 deal, anyway.

I am not sure how a coach views someone that is at 33% and negotiating for 40%, or another $1,000 in this example.

Again, to be successful, you have to understand, as best you can, BOTH sides of the deal.

The coach has 11.7 to spread over 32-35 players.

They are not all on full scholarships.

Maybe, two or three pitchers are.

Not many players have the offer to play baseball, much less at more than a 1/3 scholarship, or the right fit.

For the right fit, the opportunity to play, and at more than 1/3, I'd take the money and run.

Keep in mind why you are negotiating, and balance that with how good the Fit is for your son.

Are you negotiating because paying the rest if the freight would be a major hardship on your family?

Are you negotiating because you have an in-demand 'product' and you want the best possible deal?

Are you negotiating out of ego, nothing but a Full Ride will satisfy?

If it is hardship, explain your circumstances to the coach. He might have any number of avenues with the Financial Aid office that could ease that burden. You'd also be laying down a marker for the Spring Term: given solid academics and production on the field, your son could then be first in line for any additional scholarship money that comes available.

Some very good stuff being brought up here.

I’d like to add to those thoughts, if I may.

This pertains to much more than this topic.

Often when I read these threads about recruiting, negotiating, pro vs college, scholarships, etc., (What should we be doing?) I get the feeling that the same suggestions sometimes are considered to hold true in every situation. IMO – That is not how it works.

Without knowing who the player is we are talking about, there can not be any standard answer to many of the questions people ask.

There can be a big difference if we are talking about players like “Fungo”, “Justbaseball”, or TPM’s sons and some other HSBBWebsters who have sons who are among the highest level players… versus… the majority of those other good players who are out there.

Then again the good thing is there’s a good blend of parents here, who can speak based on many different levels and experiences. These viewpoints are all equally important!

What is most important (IMO) is that the person asking the questions has a good understanding of how their son fits into things.

All players are not the same. A good recommendation pertaining to one player, might be the worst possible advice to another. There are players who can ask for and negotiate for the moon. Then there are the majority of players, who stand to lose some great opportunities by following the same path.

On all topics relating to recruiting and the draft, it’s important to understand that YOUR situation is likely different than many others… In the end it is the college or professional club that determines a players value. You can negotiate and probably should, to some extent, but the only thing you have full control over is saying yes or no! That’s the only way you, or your son, have available in dictating his value. It’s kind of important that you have an accurate assessment of his value or you could end up being extremely disappointed.

Note: Not to be harsh, but (in our experience) we see that many people have a tendency to over estimate their sons value to others. This is not a bad thing! In fact, it’s probably a good thing and for sure it is very normal. But it can get in the way of accurate decision making at times!

All that said… There is always a ton of good information given here, so long as the person receiving the information is able to consider it all as it relates to your players situation.

Much of that valuable information comes from the posters I mentioned above and several others. They understand that your situation might be different than theirs. What makes this site the best, is the number of experienced people who really care about helping others. That, to me, is what is the most unique thing about the HSBBW.

Bob Howdeshell created something very special and Julie (MN-Mom) has continued and even improved this very special site. It took very special people and luckily they appeared!

PG,
As always, great post!

quote:

Originally posted by Tiger Paw Mom:
This is interesting. My son's school pays for books, have to be returned or you are charged. Another school told him he got books and could sell them.

Interesting! I'll have to ask my daughter what she's required to do. I've never seen anything specifying what's required via her scholarship. She might know but I've never asked her about it or heard her mention it.

Catcher Mom - Don't view it as "negotiating". That can sometimes come off poorly. Think of it more in terms of searching for answers. My oldest (previously mentioned daughter) was recruited by a variety of different schools, D1 - D3. Once we started discussing $$$, it's easier to understand both sides if you're open and honest about your particular situation. If they offer $***XX.00 and it's going to be a burden on your family, explain that and immediately inquire what other avenues you can persue; academic scholarships or aid packages. I'd think they'd be willing to help you.

PG - Thats a really wise post with a very good message.

TPM - I may be wrong, but I believe athletes are required by the NCAA to return the books. I doubt its policed and sure it doesn't always happen...but I'm surprised a school said to just sell them. Seems kind of akin to "selling" your free pass allotment to your games - doesn't it? I.E. Get something for free...turn around and sell it.

I don't know what you want to call it but I negotiated the final amount. We were prepared in all cases to walk away. I turned down several offers and the one we accepted was not the hidhest. The one we accepted was negotiated over a couple weeks. We turned down the 1st offer and the coach said give me a week or 2 and I will get back to you. He did and we knew he was doing the best he could. The 2nd offer made it affordable and that is what it had to be. I knew he was honest and I was to.
Yes you can negotiate but not without risk. Negotiating in good faith is part of the real world. If all parents were capable of accuratly evaluating your son's ability half the great ball players wouln't be playing ball. Player development is on going and at different rates. Following a dream may mean not listening to the negative people. At 19-20 yo you should know that he can play so go for it if you can afford to lose. I am not a gambler but did the research and knew the level of interest so it cuts the risk.
many of my friends sons took the 1st offer and not put much effort into shopping around and testing the market.

Justbaseball,
That's what we were told by a school, it sort of becomes pocket money.
Big program, I doubt they would fool around like that. I am thinking, maybe the school athletic fund purchases books, not part of your scholarship package therefore you can do what you want with them?

I do know that at where son is, you need to pay for books not returned, I have seen it on his bill!

Very interesting and informative thread.

One other comment I often read here relates to choosing a college where your son will be happy, and that "you can afford". But I have to offer a dissenting opinion about that. I suspect that there are a lot of parents here who CAN'T "afford" the college their son attends! How about a college that you can "survive"?

Any other families like ours? With both of our boys in college this year, there is no way that we can "afford" it. Some months it is downright nerve-wracking, coming up with a way to pay the college bills, and it sure isn't helping our retirement hopes. But this is a relatively short period in our lives and the lives of our children, a short period that can make such a difference in their futures. If they are studying something they are interested in, at a college where they soon feel "at home"; if they are making progress toward a degree and hopefully a satisfying career; if they are maturing as people and hopefully getting a chance to play some baseball ... what a priceless time in their lives. And if Mom and Dad still have a roof over their heads by the time they are done ... well, I think that at least in our family, we will figure that we "negotiated" those treacherous years okay!

quote:

Originally posted by BobbleheadDoll:
I don't know what you want to call it but I negotiated the final amount.

My point was simply that, upon receiving an offer, I wouldn't say to the coach "Is this negotiable?" Or "Is the best you can do?"

Having books paid is nice, but should not be a deal breaker. It does add up though. Jr. is using about $1,000 worth of books this fall.

Beezer I simply told him the amount didn't work. I can't remember the exact words but I was not prepared to take the 1st offer. I am very happy that we arrived at an acceptable amount.
If parents add up all the costs that are over and above Tuition, room and board it is stagering. 2 return flights, pizza, movies, other sports events, insurance etc etc it adds up to thousands.
Several schools were well over #30,000 for Tuition room & board. Our schools are around $10-12,000 at a top school like U of Toronto.

Anyone had a D1 school renege on a verbal offer?

.
A bit late, but better than never....

PG and Mn-Mom....simply outstanding posts...



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