I think that this is a very thought provoking thread and visited a few times today to watch responses (slow friday).
I also was one of those who sent son to play local LL with local travel only and nothing major until he reached HS. I have in the past taken a stance against big time travel for those under HS age.
However, I think that there is such tremendous pressure for parents to "think" that there are certain things you have to do, so early, so many new opportunities to make sure your son has success in HS, after HS. Coaches recruiting earlier and earlier, kids verballing earlier and earlier, makes many anxious and feel the need to do more than wait until son is older.
I hope that some of these posts and those in other threads, will help folks to realize that we have made such a simple game so complicated.
While I agree with much said and think JBB post is one of his best, any parent reading this who has been "too involved" or spent "too much", should never feel quilty.
Perhaps this brings closure:
We had a player at one of our events a few years back and he said to me very openly " Wouldn't it be great if we had a bubble over the field and the parents sat outside and could only watch?"
AMEN!!!!
We had a player at one of our events a few years back and he said to me very openly " Wouldn't it be great if we had a bubble over the field and the parents sat outside and could only watch?"
AMEN!!!!
Great thread, and excellent contributions by all.
I myself didn’t get the instructional manual that listed the do’s and don’ts of being a baseball parent, and I don’t know anybody that did. But I worry sometimes that baseball has become an elitist sport. That is something I always hated about golf or tennis (not that I hate either sport), and telling people how to act or looking down one’s nose at those who act differently are symptoms that lead me to think that it’s more than a bit true.
Social skills are complex, culturally diverse, and subject to broad degrees of interpretation. People in general learn these skills from observing. If you want parents to become more tolerable, you model tolerance for them. Personally and professionally speaking, I have a much, MUCH bigger beef with under-involved parents, if you know what I mean.
Just my 2 cents.
I myself didn’t get the instructional manual that listed the do’s and don’ts of being a baseball parent, and I don’t know anybody that did. But I worry sometimes that baseball has become an elitist sport. That is something I always hated about golf or tennis (not that I hate either sport), and telling people how to act or looking down one’s nose at those who act differently are symptoms that lead me to think that it’s more than a bit true.
Social skills are complex, culturally diverse, and subject to broad degrees of interpretation. People in general learn these skills from observing. If you want parents to become more tolerable, you model tolerance for them. Personally and professionally speaking, I have a much, MUCH bigger beef with under-involved parents, if you know what I mean.
Just my 2 cents.
Just...Great post!
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Yes...Parents are too involved.
I was one of them...and I'm a nice guy.
High school baseball coaches should "look over their shoulders" because so many of them are not qualified but get the job because they teach at the school. Then, too often, they pick the teams based on an indoor tryout (especially up North) based on a few ground balls taken and throws made in a gym.
To them I say....get out in the sunshine and see the potential makeup of next years varsity teams. Kids play at all levels in the summertime and there is usually no problem for anyone seeing a few games.
-------------------------------
Yes...Parents are too involved.
I was one of them...and I'm a nice guy.
High school baseball coaches should "look over their shoulders" because so many of them are not qualified but get the job because they teach at the school. Then, too often, they pick the teams based on an indoor tryout (especially up North) based on a few ground balls taken and throws made in a gym.
To them I say....get out in the sunshine and see the potential makeup of next years varsity teams. Kids play at all levels in the summertime and there is usually no problem for anyone seeing a few games.
Parents cheering for their kids should be applauded. People interfering in the game should be sent away (parents or anyone). Can you imagine how boring sports would be without the cheering fans?
I have come across travel teams at the young high school ages and below demand that their players do not play Little League. I keep hearing all summer about Legion 'C' teams demanding that their players devote themselves solely to Legion ball.
It's getting crazy, but I think that is because the coaches are for the most part inept and arrogant.
All of the demands that kids play exclusively for one team and no other limits the child's recreation. The level of competition is usually higher at the levels that are asked to be forsaken.
I had a policy with my boys trying out for money teams. If they could start on the team, I would fork over the money. I would never pay full price for my child to be a bench player. I told my boys that if they didn't win the starting spot, they didn't make the team.
I have often wondered why pitchers pay full price on travel teams. They will not pitch every day or in some cases twice in a tournament. They should get a better rate.
I have come across travel teams at the young high school ages and below demand that their players do not play Little League. I keep hearing all summer about Legion 'C' teams demanding that their players devote themselves solely to Legion ball.
It's getting crazy, but I think that is because the coaches are for the most part inept and arrogant.
All of the demands that kids play exclusively for one team and no other limits the child's recreation. The level of competition is usually higher at the levels that are asked to be forsaken.
I had a policy with my boys trying out for money teams. If they could start on the team, I would fork over the money. I would never pay full price for my child to be a bench player. I told my boys that if they didn't win the starting spot, they didn't make the team.
I have often wondered why pitchers pay full price on travel teams. They will not pitch every day or in some cases twice in a tournament. They should get a better rate.
Here's one solution to parents being "too involved". . .when my son was younger, he did gymnastics during the winter. The gymnastics center had a soundproof area above the gym floor for parents to watch, and parents were only allowed to watch 1 lesson a week. Boys' gymnastics when they are 10 looks more like kids trying to see what daredevil things they can do from the swingset 
but girls' gymnastics at that age is WAY different. I sat up there one time and decided that I would take baseball parents any day. 
but girls' gymnastics at that age is WAY different. I sat up there one time and decided that I would take baseball parents any day.
Did you ever sit next to, during a competition, a cheerleader's mom?
John and TPM - You do bring some other memories to my mind! My daughter cheered for a couple of years, did gymnastics for several years, and dance for a couple! Baseball doesn't own all of the "too involved" parents!! 
As a matter of fact, now that I think about it, maybe baseball parents are some of the more mellow folks!
As a matter of fact, now that I think about it, maybe baseball parents are some of the more mellow folks!
There are some powerful words coming out of this thread thanks to many of the poster here including Justbaseball and Infielddad. While I have never met Infielddad or Justbaseball, I feel as if I know both of them quite well. Here are two people that are very involved in their son’s lives but at the same time I know that involvement is a blessing and not a burden to their sons. How do they do it? Maybe that’s what sets them apart and makes them who they are. Thanks for sharing!
Fungo
Fungo
i'll throw my 2 cents in or nickel as tr says. parents need to be INVOLVED,getting the kids to games,washing uniforms,supporting our kids.i do think with all of the showcases parents feel the need to be or do everything the other kid did.
i just left a sr babe ruth game ages 16 to 19.two parents yelled out to their kids to see if they needed gator aid.i happened to know one of the dads so i asked if his dad would have done that?i do think kids are babied today.i tell my kids to bring what is needed and if they don't.oh well.
i see the better players parents coducting themselves differently.as rz said i sit in the outfield by myself to avoid the game by game replay.parents have changed, society has changed.i never liked change but i'm having a hard time finding 8 tracks, i am going to have to move forward and get a cassette player.
they say kids are hereditary,if your parents didn't have any you won't either.
great post with some great insight.
i just left a sr babe ruth game ages 16 to 19.two parents yelled out to their kids to see if they needed gator aid.i happened to know one of the dads so i asked if his dad would have done that?i do think kids are babied today.i tell my kids to bring what is needed and if they don't.oh well.
i see the better players parents coducting themselves differently.as rz said i sit in the outfield by myself to avoid the game by game replay.parents have changed, society has changed.i never liked change but i'm having a hard time finding 8 tracks, i am going to have to move forward and get a cassette player.
they say kids are hereditary,if your parents didn't have any you won't either.
great post with some great insight.
Very good topic. I just discovered it this morning. Anyway....
I am involved with both of my son's baseball. And I watch games and cheer them on. I groan if one of them miss a ball, pop it up, or strike out. I jump out of my seat when one gets a great hit, or makes a good play. My 17 yr old has been contacted by colleges, and yes, I'm involved. I want to know who may be interested and how much. I go to the college website and check out everything they have to offer. I get my son involved by having him research the college as well. i make sure thatthey have phone #'s, snail mail address, and e-mail address. That's what parents do. Help.
I haven't spent that much on camps and showcases. I like the theory that, "if you are good, they will find you". But, that has changed somewhat. I believe, and I amy be wrong, that scouts are now relying on showcases. My son has been invited to a national showcase, but I just don't have that extra $3000 to spend on the trip, hotels and the showcase itself. Don't get me wrong, I think that what these guys are doing for the kids is great. It's just not right for us. I will take him to a camp. I shop around. Kentucky's was inexpensive and he learned a great deal. He went to a showcase this past June and he recieved calls from two colleges. That showcase cost me $50. The organization doing the showcase just so happens to be headed by a parent who cares about the sport and kids. And he really cares about how they are seen. Some coaches couldn't make it. He sent evauluations to all of them, and then some.
I've seen parents that are too involved. There was a couple on our HS team that would make Kim Jong Ill(SP) look tame.
Being involved could be a good thing or a bad thing. You just have to know how to recongnize which is which and adjust.
I am involved with both of my son's baseball. And I watch games and cheer them on. I groan if one of them miss a ball, pop it up, or strike out. I jump out of my seat when one gets a great hit, or makes a good play. My 17 yr old has been contacted by colleges, and yes, I'm involved. I want to know who may be interested and how much. I go to the college website and check out everything they have to offer. I get my son involved by having him research the college as well. i make sure thatthey have phone #'s, snail mail address, and e-mail address. That's what parents do. Help.
I haven't spent that much on camps and showcases. I like the theory that, "if you are good, they will find you". But, that has changed somewhat. I believe, and I amy be wrong, that scouts are now relying on showcases. My son has been invited to a national showcase, but I just don't have that extra $3000 to spend on the trip, hotels and the showcase itself. Don't get me wrong, I think that what these guys are doing for the kids is great. It's just not right for us. I will take him to a camp. I shop around. Kentucky's was inexpensive and he learned a great deal. He went to a showcase this past June and he recieved calls from two colleges. That showcase cost me $50. The organization doing the showcase just so happens to be headed by a parent who cares about the sport and kids. And he really cares about how they are seen. Some coaches couldn't make it. He sent evauluations to all of them, and then some.
I've seen parents that are too involved. There was a couple on our HS team that would make Kim Jong Ill(SP) look tame.
Being involved could be a good thing or a bad thing. You just have to know how to recongnize which is which and adjust.
would this have happened back when(yes I am an old timer so humor me)
this actually happened(about 2 years ago) and was told to me by a former coaching colleague.
Parent shows up for a high school game. His kid is not starting. goes to the bench tells the kid to get his stuff and they leave. Of course a few comments to the coach on the way to the car. When I heard it I said are you kidding or just another day at the office?
this actually happened(about 2 years ago) and was told to me by a former coaching colleague.
Parent shows up for a high school game. His kid is not starting. goes to the bench tells the kid to get his stuff and they leave. Of course a few comments to the coach on the way to the car. When I heard it I said are you kidding or just another day at the office?
Will - I've seen that exact thing before except a bit expanded. There was a kid that in 8th grade didn't make the JV, but only the HS freshman team. They were to have team pics made and the dad was there. Dad had a fit and made son strip out of uniform and they went home. The next year - same kid in playing on a travel team. Sitting bench and dad makes him leave - stripping out of uniform as they head to car. He takes the uniform and throws it at one of the wife of one of the coaches. They ended up changing HS from the public school where the fresh/JV argument happened and going to a private school. Apparently, he didn't get playing time there neither right off the bat and the kid just quit. No more baseball. 
The kid wasn't a horrible player, just not a terrific one. He would have ended up contributing somewhere if he'd been given the time by his parents to do so.
The kid wasn't a horrible player, just not a terrific one. He would have ended up contributing somewhere if he'd been given the time by his parents to do so.
The 'walking parent' is a good example of the under-involved parent.
If parents want their child to play ball they have to seek out the niche where that child fits. It may not be 'elite' ball but there is always a team out there for that child to play and start at his position.
It never makes sense to me to put your child on a team where they will sit the bench. If I am paying for my child to play ball, I expect that they will play ball.
Winning and losing are part of the game, but winning is more fun. I'd be content to have my child play regularly on a losing team than sit the bench on an undefeated team.
If parents want their child to play ball they have to seek out the niche where that child fits. It may not be 'elite' ball but there is always a team out there for that child to play and start at his position.
It never makes sense to me to put your child on a team where they will sit the bench. If I am paying for my child to play ball, I expect that they will play ball.
Winning and losing are part of the game, but winning is more fun. I'd be content to have my child play regularly on a losing team than sit the bench on an undefeated team.
lafmom and will, the parents that I spoke of in my previous post did this very thing. Their son was benched after missing a couple of critical catches in the OF and slinging equipment after a stikeout and then cursing. Parents come down and ask coach why, during the game, and they went off. They stormed off with son in tow. The better way would have been to wait until game was over and discuss with coach, why their son was benched.
If you think baseball parents are "involved" go to a girls softball game
Then come back and say baseball parents are over the edge
Then come back and say baseball parents are over the edge
I have been following this discussion during the past week.......in the past ten years I have done a significant amount of research on the parenting of athletes. Baseball is not unique as far as the behaviors of parents are concerned. Hockey and s****r tend to top the list when it comes to extreme behaviors......softball parents, in my experiences, are not worse than baseball parents.
Early in this thread somebody mentioned that parents sometimes feel a sense of entitlement because of the amount of time and money they have spent on their children's athletic development, etc. This is very true, and in baseball, where there are opportunities/competition for (mostly partial) scholarships and the potential to play professional baseball (even though about 4-5% of professional baseball players earn an outstanding income), the sense of entitlement is often evident. Many parents believe that hard work, attendance at showcases and camps, private instruction, etc., entitles their sons to starting positions, scholarships and more.
A major issue comes with parents who can be referred to as 'helicopter parents'. These are the parents who hover over their children, especially in the athletic arena. They force the kids to practice, even at young ages, sometimes dictate to coaches the requirements for team participation, and lead their children step by step, etc.
Note: above is not a complete description of what is considered a helicopter parent, nor do all of these parents exhibit all of the characteristics.
Sport Psychologists who specialize with youth/HS/college athletes do believe that children of the helicopter parents tend to struggle significantly when they go away to college, or anyplace where their parent(s) are not there to speak/do things for them. This tends to happen to athletes who are elite athletes as well as the rest of the athlete population.
On the flip side, a large majority of parents understand that playing a sport is about the kids, not the parents. They understand that participation in sports is one way that their kids develop communication skills, learn how to interact with adults, develop leadership skills, and become the person they are destined to become.
Appropriate parents understand that what their children are to become on the field is not nearly as significant as what they become off the field.
Early in this thread somebody mentioned that parents sometimes feel a sense of entitlement because of the amount of time and money they have spent on their children's athletic development, etc. This is very true, and in baseball, where there are opportunities/competition for (mostly partial) scholarships and the potential to play professional baseball (even though about 4-5% of professional baseball players earn an outstanding income), the sense of entitlement is often evident. Many parents believe that hard work, attendance at showcases and camps, private instruction, etc., entitles their sons to starting positions, scholarships and more.
A major issue comes with parents who can be referred to as 'helicopter parents'. These are the parents who hover over their children, especially in the athletic arena. They force the kids to practice, even at young ages, sometimes dictate to coaches the requirements for team participation, and lead their children step by step, etc.
Note: above is not a complete description of what is considered a helicopter parent, nor do all of these parents exhibit all of the characteristics.
Sport Psychologists who specialize with youth/HS/college athletes do believe that children of the helicopter parents tend to struggle significantly when they go away to college, or anyplace where their parent(s) are not there to speak/do things for them. This tends to happen to athletes who are elite athletes as well as the rest of the athlete population.
On the flip side, a large majority of parents understand that playing a sport is about the kids, not the parents. They understand that participation in sports is one way that their kids develop communication skills, learn how to interact with adults, develop leadership skills, and become the person they are destined to become.
Appropriate parents understand that what their children are to become on the field is not nearly as significant as what they become off the field.
.
Grateful,
Excellent post....as usual..
At the risk of being attcked once again for "Self Flagellation", I DO feel that it is CRITICAL be keenly self aware and self vigilant...
There is a new book out that deals with EXACTLY this on a Life Scale.... "The Price of Privilege: How Parental Pressure and Material Advantage Are Creating a Generation of Disconnected and Deeply Unhappy Kids"
Have read a few excerpts...
"...We need to examine our parenting paradigm. Raising children has come to look more and more like a business endeavor and less and less like an endeavor of the heart. We are overly concerned with "the bottom line," with how our children "do" rather than with who our children "are." We pour time, attention and money into insuring their performance..."
"...Between accelerated academic courses, multiple extracurricular activities, premature preparation for high school or college, special coaches and tutors engaged to wring the last bit of performance out of them, many kids find themselves scheduled to within an inch of their lives. Criticism and even rejection become commonplace as competitive parents continue to push their children toward higher levels of accomplishment"..."
"...But whenever we prematurely solve problems for our children, we deprive them of the opportunity to come up with novel solutions that allow them to add another tool to their arsenal. We also deprive them of the sense of competence that comes with figuring things out on ones own..."
"...I want to be clear that children do need a great deal of involvement from their parents. High levels of parental involvement are shown to be an important predictor of success for children in many areas. But appropriately involved parents know the importance of stepping back as soon as is practical, and of respecting their child's strivings toward independence. Overinvolvement is not simply "more" healthy involvement; rather it is involvement that can get in the way of development..."
44
.
Grateful,
Excellent post....as usual..
At the risk of being attcked once again for "Self Flagellation", I DO feel that it is CRITICAL be keenly self aware and self vigilant...
There is a new book out that deals with EXACTLY this on a Life Scale.... "The Price of Privilege: How Parental Pressure and Material Advantage Are Creating a Generation of Disconnected and Deeply Unhappy Kids"
Have read a few excerpts...
"...We need to examine our parenting paradigm. Raising children has come to look more and more like a business endeavor and less and less like an endeavor of the heart. We are overly concerned with "the bottom line," with how our children "do" rather than with who our children "are." We pour time, attention and money into insuring their performance..."
"...Between accelerated academic courses, multiple extracurricular activities, premature preparation for high school or college, special coaches and tutors engaged to wring the last bit of performance out of them, many kids find themselves scheduled to within an inch of their lives. Criticism and even rejection become commonplace as competitive parents continue to push their children toward higher levels of accomplishment"..."
"...But whenever we prematurely solve problems for our children, we deprive them of the opportunity to come up with novel solutions that allow them to add another tool to their arsenal. We also deprive them of the sense of competence that comes with figuring things out on ones own..."
"...I want to be clear that children do need a great deal of involvement from their parents. High levels of parental involvement are shown to be an important predictor of success for children in many areas. But appropriately involved parents know the importance of stepping back as soon as is practical, and of respecting their child's strivings toward independence. Overinvolvement is not simply "more" healthy involvement; rather it is involvement that can get in the way of development..."
44.
44
May i ask who is the author of the book?
And are they/he/she a parent?
Many of these type books are written by people who have not been parents
May i ask who is the author of the book?
And are they/he/she a parent?
Many of these type books are written by people who have not been parents
.
TR...
Madeline Levine, Ph.D. is a psychologist in the Bay Area. The author of two books on children and the media, she lives with her husband and three sons.
(Don't know her or if her sons play baseball!)
44
.
TR...
Madeline Levine, Ph.D. is a psychologist in the Bay Area. The author of two books on children and the media, she lives with her husband and three sons.
(Don't know her or if her sons play baseball!)
44.
No problem--all too often these books are written by people who have never had kids and gone thru the experience--just wanted to know
.
TR...
Agreed.
In this case I understand that she sees this disturbing trend where successful, kids with everything going for them are suddenly struggling to find meaning. Not just the at risk kids, but the seemingly successful ones.
Curious, She checked with other professionals around the country and found that they were all seeing a huge increase in problems in this upper end, priviledged demographic. Seems the kids were very successful in sports and academics and other venues that could be measured and quantified and kept score of by overinvolved score keeping boomer parents. But stuggling in other less quantificable venues.
"In spite of parental concern and economic advantage, many of my adolescent patients suffer from readily apparent emotional disorders: addictions, anxiety disorders, depression, eating disorders and assorted self-destructive behaviors. Others are perplexingly and persistently unhappy in ways that are more difficult to quantify. The fact that many of these teens are highly proficient in some areas of their lives helps mask significant impairments in others..."
AS I mentioned something to be aware of.
44
TR...
Agreed.
In this case I understand that she sees this disturbing trend where successful, kids with everything going for them are suddenly struggling to find meaning. Not just the at risk kids, but the seemingly successful ones.
Curious, She checked with other professionals around the country and found that they were all seeing a huge increase in problems in this upper end, priviledged demographic. Seems the kids were very successful in sports and academics and other venues that could be measured and quantified and kept score of by overinvolved score keeping boomer parents. But stuggling in other less quantificable venues.
"In spite of parental concern and economic advantage, many of my adolescent patients suffer from readily apparent emotional disorders: addictions, anxiety disorders, depression, eating disorders and assorted self-destructive behaviors. Others are perplexingly and persistently unhappy in ways that are more difficult to quantify. The fact that many of these teens are highly proficient in some areas of their lives helps mask significant impairments in others..."
AS I mentioned something to be aware of.
44
But, I can recall hearing stories of kids that go into trouble, dropped out of school, ran away, chemical issues......
And, one of the questions was,
"Where were the parents?...................
And, one of the questions was,
"Where were the parents?...................
.
FO...
Agreed.
As quoted from the book and my earlier post...
"...I want to be clear that children do need a great deal of involvement from their parents. High levels of parental involvement are shown to be an important predictor of success for children in many areas. But appropriately involved parents know the importance of stepping back as soon as is practical, and of respecting their child's strivings toward independence. Overinvolvement is not simply "more" healthy involvement; rather it is involvement that can get in the way of development..."
44
.
FO...
Agreed.
As quoted from the book and my earlier post...
"...I want to be clear that children do need a great deal of involvement from their parents. High levels of parental involvement are shown to be an important predictor of success for children in many areas. But appropriately involved parents know the importance of stepping back as soon as is practical, and of respecting their child's strivings toward independence. Overinvolvement is not simply "more" healthy involvement; rather it is involvement that can get in the way of development..."
44.
There's a Balancing act when it come's to being Involved.
When is it to much, when is it not enough.
As a Parent you have to find that middle Ground.
Quiting are making your child quit is never the Answer.
It just teaches them how to quit, when thing's don't go there way.
Nothing in this world is 100% alway's fair, once the Parent learn's that the better.
I've made my share of Parental foot in mouth mistake's.
And will make many more.
I try to learn from my Mistake's, and I'm getting Better.
It's not an easy thing to do.
Remember it's not alway's your child that's trying out for a Team.
It's also the Parent's?? Just food for Thought. EH
When is it to much, when is it not enough.
As a Parent you have to find that middle Ground.
Quiting are making your child quit is never the Answer.
It just teaches them how to quit, when thing's don't go there way.
Nothing in this world is 100% alway's fair, once the Parent learn's that the better.
I've made my share of Parental foot in mouth mistake's.
And will make many more.
I try to learn from my Mistake's, and I'm getting Better.
It's not an easy thing to do.
Remember it's not alway's your child that's trying out for a Team.
It's also the Parent's?? Just food for Thought. EH
quote:Originally posted by theEH:
Remember it's not alway's your child that's trying out for a Team. It's also the Parent's?? Just food for Thought. EH
Not sure I understand this comment. What do you mean by this?
Observer44,
I wasn’t “Attacking” you with the self-flagellation remark, didn’t highlight you specifically and it was not an ‘attack’. You make it sound like this is some sort of Hitting Forum discussion.
My comment was for people to just quit all the self-analysis and go have fun watching baseball. Period.
Every time you turn around there is a constant stream of analysis, psychoanalysis, self reflection (that somehow always seems to be broadcast publicly) and self-criticism ad nauseum. You turn on the TV and there’s some reality show fool blubbering away about their problems while their housemates huddle around and analyse them.
Then there are the endless books. Incidentally, any book that begins “We need to examine our parenting paradigm” is in trouble from the get-go.
Now, so you don’t get the wrong impression, I think this is a good thread, otherwise I wouldn’t have contributed to it in the first place. There are some very good posts here and interesting takes on this, everyone’s is valid, Observer44s’ and everyone’s. I gave my 2cents because no one else was offering that angle to it. I wasn’t attacking anyone. But come on. I know this is the High School baseball web, but here again, it’s a bunch of parents talking on and on and on about . . . what? . . . THEMSELVES! Seems in society today it’s always about ME, ME, ME. It gets tiring.
Just go out and have fun watching your boy’s game.
But in the future I'll homogenise my comments until they are so meek as to not give offense.
I wasn’t “Attacking” you with the self-flagellation remark, didn’t highlight you specifically and it was not an ‘attack’. You make it sound like this is some sort of Hitting Forum discussion.
My comment was for people to just quit all the self-analysis and go have fun watching baseball. Period.
Every time you turn around there is a constant stream of analysis, psychoanalysis, self reflection (that somehow always seems to be broadcast publicly) and self-criticism ad nauseum. You turn on the TV and there’s some reality show fool blubbering away about their problems while their housemates huddle around and analyse them.
Then there are the endless books. Incidentally, any book that begins “We need to examine our parenting paradigm” is in trouble from the get-go.
Now, so you don’t get the wrong impression, I think this is a good thread, otherwise I wouldn’t have contributed to it in the first place. There are some very good posts here and interesting takes on this, everyone’s is valid, Observer44s’ and everyone’s. I gave my 2cents because no one else was offering that angle to it. I wasn’t attacking anyone. But come on. I know this is the High School baseball web, but here again, it’s a bunch of parents talking on and on and on about . . . what? . . . THEMSELVES! Seems in society today it’s always about ME, ME, ME. It gets tiring.
Just go out and have fun watching your boy’s game.
But in the future I'll homogenise my comments until they are so meek as to not give offense.
Too many "sensitive" people in this world today
justbaseball:
Let me try and give you some possible insight to the EH's thoughts on parents having to make the cut.
It has been our experience in the Chicago area through many, many years of travel ball that the parents do indeed come under close scrutiny...especially when the parents are known to be troublesome.
I know of coaches that have agonized over a decision whether to take a very talented player despite his or her known problem parents.
Parents like that can literally destroy a team...and good, experienced coaches know that.
Decisions regarding parents are critical...the wrong decision can result in an immense amount of valuable time and energy needing to be expended during the season to correct problems created by these parents. And if coaches choose to ignore the problem(s) then they do so at their own peril. The team's well being is in jeopardy.
Conversely, the right decision(s) regarding parents at the outset will pay huge dividends...a great bunch of families usually results in a fun, successful, and relatively stress free season.
Our family tries to find teams composed of these type of families and that are also led by good coaches.
Let me try and give you some possible insight to the EH's thoughts on parents having to make the cut.
It has been our experience in the Chicago area through many, many years of travel ball that the parents do indeed come under close scrutiny...especially when the parents are known to be troublesome.
I know of coaches that have agonized over a decision whether to take a very talented player despite his or her known problem parents.
Parents like that can literally destroy a team...and good, experienced coaches know that.
Decisions regarding parents are critical...the wrong decision can result in an immense amount of valuable time and energy needing to be expended during the season to correct problems created by these parents. And if coaches choose to ignore the problem(s) then they do so at their own peril. The team's well being is in jeopardy.
Conversely, the right decision(s) regarding parents at the outset will pay huge dividends...a great bunch of families usually results in a fun, successful, and relatively stress free season.
Our family tries to find teams composed of these type of families and that are also led by good coaches.
I have to second the thoughts expressed by gotwood4sale about parents making the cut. Very, very true.
[My comment was for people to just quit all the self-analysis and go have fun watching baseball. Period.]
I was wondering why the book mentioned (and some of the quotes) looked so awfully familiar to me. This book was excerpted in our local newspaper's Sunday section. My initial reaction was: somebody trying to sell a book which preys on parents' continual feelings of inadequacy. Frankly, I'm a little tired of parents being blamed for either too much or too little. There is no perfect combination and the balancing-act game is difficult enough already without being made to feel that I am TOO involved. American education is withering in the shadows of other nations. Our kids are overweight. Our families are fracturing. And this author chose to write about children of privilege: a small and select percentage of the population. Guess who will buy those books!!
I think I'll give this book a miss and go watch the little leaguers practicing down the street on a field that the city "forgot" to maintain again this year. The author (who lives locally by the way and probably passes this field every day) ought to write about municipal governments who never seem to find funding for youth sports!!
I was wondering why the book mentioned (and some of the quotes) looked so awfully familiar to me. This book was excerpted in our local newspaper's Sunday section. My initial reaction was: somebody trying to sell a book which preys on parents' continual feelings of inadequacy. Frankly, I'm a little tired of parents being blamed for either too much or too little. There is no perfect combination and the balancing-act game is difficult enough already without being made to feel that I am TOO involved. American education is withering in the shadows of other nations. Our kids are overweight. Our families are fracturing. And this author chose to write about children of privilege: a small and select percentage of the population. Guess who will buy those books!!
I think I'll give this book a miss and go watch the little leaguers practicing down the street on a field that the city "forgot" to maintain again this year. The author (who lives locally by the way and probably passes this field every day) ought to write about municipal governments who never seem to find funding for youth sports!!
Parental Involvment ?
When they grow up I bet they will thank you.
When they grow up I bet they will thank you.
Or in some cases despise you.quote:Originally posted by BobbleheadDoll:
Parental Involvment ?
When they grow up I bet they will thank you.
I do know of situations where kids have quit playing because of either unreasonable parental expectations, or, embarrassing parental behavior. It's a shame, but it is a reality with parenting in general that we will never be able to completly control, nor do we have the right to control. I've always tried to make it a personal rule not to get involved with how parents deal with their lives unless there would be physical violence or the attitude starts affecting others personally or within a team structure. I expect that same respect from them.
As a player told TR about putting a dome over the field to keep parents out. Great idea but the best part of life is being a parent and watching and being part of your kids growing up.
So true Newcomer, but every other public interest group in the community is crying the same foul. All I need is every Tom, Dick, and Harry getting their desires met and the results being added to my tax bill. Selfish, yes, but I do sleep at night with that attitude. At times the public sector is at fault for relying on the government to take action, when grass root public efforts are more satisfying IMO.quote:....ought to write about municipal governments who never seem to find funding for youth sports!!
quote:Originally posted by rz1:
All I need is every Tom, Dick, and Harry getting their desires met and the results being added to my tax bill. Selfish, yes, but I do sleep at night with that attitude. At times the public sector is at fault for relying on the government to take action, when grass root public efforts are more satisfying IMO.
Agree wholeheartedly with that! We've built 2 beautiful new fields in the past 5 years with nothing more than donations from families and local businesses. Its amazing whats help is out there if you just ask for it. In addition, if you come up with just some of the funds...its also amazing how much MORE willing the financially strapped city or school district is to throw in a little more when you did your part first.
Parental Involvment
I would venture to say if you polled the top 300 youth players around the country that a vast majority of these young men come from families whose parents are very involved in their lives.
I would venture to say if you polled the top 300 youth players around the country that a vast majority of these young men come from families whose parents are very involved in their lives.
TR mentioned softball parents. In addition to being a baseball parent, I am also a softball parent to my two daughters, both playing travel ball--one on a 12U team, the other on a 10U team. Please allow me to share an experience I witnessed this past weekend at a local but major softball tournament.
One of the families in our organization also has daughters on both of our teams. The older girl is a pitcher, the younger one is a catcher. The mom has already contacted the university of HER choice to alert the softball coach about her 12 year old daughter in 6th grade. She stated she will NOT ALLOW her daughter to ever QUIT softball because of ALL THE MONEY they have spent on her SO FAR and she has a ledger book with every expense paid, from pitching lessons to spikes to hotels and meals and gas for their travel, etc.
The younger daughter, the catcher, is phenomenal--with a bullet-like arm. I have witnessed this girl go from being a confident and powerful hitter with a stellar performance behind the plate, to crying when she strikes out. The mom told me that her daughter now has NIGHTMARES about catching and that she cries that she does not want to catch any more, but this is her position. After the girl stuck out for the 3rd time in a particular game, the mom turned to me and very matter-of-factly stated, "I think she needs a beating." I gasped and told her, "No, she needs a hug." The dad, by the way, is the coach.
Just an example from one family...Are we too involved? I'm an emotional wreck just thinking about these two girls, and the pressures they must feel at home.........
I'm mortified by what I see. My girls play on "successful" teams, but this is not my recipe for success. Next year, they will play somewhere else........................
One of the families in our organization also has daughters on both of our teams. The older girl is a pitcher, the younger one is a catcher. The mom has already contacted the university of HER choice to alert the softball coach about her 12 year old daughter in 6th grade. She stated she will NOT ALLOW her daughter to ever QUIT softball because of ALL THE MONEY they have spent on her SO FAR and she has a ledger book with every expense paid, from pitching lessons to spikes to hotels and meals and gas for their travel, etc.
The younger daughter, the catcher, is phenomenal--with a bullet-like arm. I have witnessed this girl go from being a confident and powerful hitter with a stellar performance behind the plate, to crying when she strikes out. The mom told me that her daughter now has NIGHTMARES about catching and that she cries that she does not want to catch any more, but this is her position. After the girl stuck out for the 3rd time in a particular game, the mom turned to me and very matter-of-factly stated, "I think she needs a beating." I gasped and told her, "No, she needs a hug." The dad, by the way, is the coach.
Just an example from one family...Are we too involved? I'm an emotional wreck just thinking about these two girls, and the pressures they must feel at home.........
I'm mortified by what I see. My girls play on "successful" teams, but this is not my recipe for success. Next year, they will play somewhere else........................
Gosh playbaseball, that story makes me emotional too! How very sad for those girls! I talked earlier about a couple of dads, but you do see these over the top behaviors in moms too of course. It's just heartbreaking to see any parent categorize their child by how successful they are on a field or on a court. Both of those girls may very well end up giving up sports - I know I would if I had to live under that kind of stress!
quote:Originally posted by infielddad:
I have been going to the Stanford Camp for a number of years to see and talk to several coaches with whom I have become friends. Went again on Tuesday.
What struck me as unusual was the amount of cheering combined with some "groans" from the stands. Asked a couple of the coaches if they remembered it from the past and the answer was a resounding no. Was new to them too.
Also exchanged a number of emails with a friend about observations a very good local high school coach made at a tournment over the weekend. The coach observed a very intense tournament for 14 year olds. Many parents stood behind the backstop and barked constantly at the umpire the opposing pitcher and and hitter. Not encouragement of players on their team but rather trying to get in the head of the opposition...and sometimes, apparently, even worse.
Just from the surface, it seems clear that the Stanford Camp is a high visibility/high expectations type experience for anyone invited. The 14's tournament seemed like the same but, perhaps, less stakes(although you couldn't tell by the parents) and much younger.
Needless to say, we would all love to see our son have great success when they are on the field. So many of them did in little league. When they get to the regulation diamond, the field dimensions, as history proves, shows how hard the game is to play.
Even though the game is harder as players progress upward,do we as parents adjust our expectations?
Or, as the game gets harder and visions of DI/scholarships and the like get closer, do we actually increase the expectations on their performance...and become more vocal with the cheers/groans and other?
When your son is playing baseball, do you watch him as a fan of the game and the skills necessary to play it, or do you watch as a parent trying to shield him from "failing," hoping he looks good, and looking around to see if the Ivy league coach is watching him and taking notes. Is one better than the other? If we are more than a fan of the way they play the game and the skills they show on the field, are we "too involved?"
I pose these questions from the view of our son. The year he went to the Stanford Camp(a very long time and way too many gray hairs ago
The rule for parents is a simple one. The bigger the forum (major showcase, national tournament), the farther away you should be from your son to allow HIM to have the experience. If your son is talented you will find him playing on larger and nicer fields - not the rickety stands of your high school or local field where he started.
And, what about kids setting limits for parents? My wife was told in no uncertain terms by my son to be quiet and watch as he participated in a college showcase. You can learn from your kids.
Finally, please do not suggest that baseball parents are any more nuts than any others. Perhaps you should read the posts on Japanese baseball, or educate yourself on how latin players come to the big leagues - dropping out of school at age 12-13 to attend baseball academies - lying about their ages on birth certificates, taking illegal drugs, etc. You want to see nuts? Watch the Caribbean World Series...
Perfect Game, Team One, Area Codes, etc. are great for promoting your player. Travel teams provide a great service, and scholarships are available on many of the elite teams. Don't tour the country with your 8-year old all-star, but do educate yourself as to the realities of recruiting and exposure as your child gets older. You'll spend some money getting him to play against the toughest competition as he gets into high school, and then the most in his junior year of high school. That's the game. As you do all these things pile up great memories and build a bond with your player so he will remember you fondly.
And, what about kids setting limits for parents? My wife was told in no uncertain terms by my son to be quiet and watch as he participated in a college showcase. You can learn from your kids.
Finally, please do not suggest that baseball parents are any more nuts than any others. Perhaps you should read the posts on Japanese baseball, or educate yourself on how latin players come to the big leagues - dropping out of school at age 12-13 to attend baseball academies - lying about their ages on birth certificates, taking illegal drugs, etc. You want to see nuts? Watch the Caribbean World Series...
Perfect Game, Team One, Area Codes, etc. are great for promoting your player. Travel teams provide a great service, and scholarships are available on many of the elite teams. Don't tour the country with your 8-year old all-star, but do educate yourself as to the realities of recruiting and exposure as your child gets older. You'll spend some money getting him to play against the toughest competition as he gets into high school, and then the most in his junior year of high school. That's the game. As you do all these things pile up great memories and build a bond with your player so he will remember you fondly.