Posse,
I recommend saving your money until the player is 16-17 for PG showcases. Honestly he is probably not good enought to garner enough attention unless he is 85 on the radar gun or hits bombs ala Bryce Harper.
Instead, get on a quality year long pitching program that will prepare him for when the time does come. I point you to Ron Wolforth's "Combat Pitcher".
www.combatpitching.com/
It has arm care, a weighted ball routine, plyometircs, and a lower body functional strength section. Coupled with a good weightroom program and long toss regimen you should have a solid player by the time he reaches high school.
To make sure he is mechanically efficient look into Paul N y m a n and his studies.
In short, expect nothin and accept everything. Good luck on this fun upcoming journey.
There are many paths to success, and I think they are different in different parts of the country. Also, showcases can be elimination events, as well. But, showcases are also great gathering spots for coaches and scouts, college and professional. At least some of them. They also provide a great venue for players to get acclimated to playing under pressure, which is important. And the best of the showcases, by far, are the Perfect Game showcases. So, if you decide a showcase is the best path, Perfect Game, in my experience, has always produced great value for the price.
Hi guys! Thanks so much for the replies. 
7 Steps: I do understand about what you mean in regards to it probably being a waste of money before late HS age. I guess I should have phrased my question to ask: are there any kids as young as 14 at PG showcases? Is this even allowed?
I'm, at this point, more interested in (A) giving him the experience of a big-time showcase BEFORE he really NEEDS it...may help with nerves down the road...I don't know? and (B) seeing how he measures up against kids in his age bracket who are very talented, especially your boys from the States. Not knocking Canadian baseball, but, let's face it, the majority of the talent is to be found in FL, TX, CAL...warm places like that.
I'm not jumping at the prospect of bursting his bubble but we need to see if he actually IS as talented aswe're often told. Don't want to buy into pipe dreams if somebody is just out for our $$$$....you know what I mean? 'Talented' here could mean a giant zero when compared to the kids that attend these PG showcases so....
jemaz: Yes! I guess I would be looking at it as somewhat of an 'elimination' tournament. Hope it doesn't go that way, of course, but we'd rather spend that kind of money to find out as opposed to spending 5x's that, annually, to find out 3 years from now that he never had a shot in...you know where...!
Sorry for the long, rambling post.
Oh...does anybody happen to know if PG holds Canadian events? If not, where would a good one be?
Thanks again!
7 Steps: I do understand about what you mean in regards to it probably being a waste of money before late HS age. I guess I should have phrased my question to ask: are there any kids as young as 14 at PG showcases? Is this even allowed?
I'm, at this point, more interested in (A) giving him the experience of a big-time showcase BEFORE he really NEEDS it...may help with nerves down the road...I don't know? and (B) seeing how he measures up against kids in his age bracket who are very talented, especially your boys from the States. Not knocking Canadian baseball, but, let's face it, the majority of the talent is to be found in FL, TX, CAL...warm places like that.
I'm not jumping at the prospect of bursting his bubble but we need to see if he actually IS as talented aswe're often told. Don't want to buy into pipe dreams if somebody is just out for our $$$$....you know what I mean? 'Talented' here could mean a giant zero when compared to the kids that attend these PG showcases so....
jemaz: Yes! I guess I would be looking at it as somewhat of an 'elimination' tournament. Hope it doesn't go that way, of course, but we'd rather spend that kind of money to find out as opposed to spending 5x's that, annually, to find out 3 years from now that he never had a shot in...you know where...!
Sorry for the long, rambling post.
Oh...does anybody happen to know if PG holds Canadian events? If not, where would a good one be?
Thanks again!
Posse-
I've never had a kid go through this process so you may want to consider someone's opinion that has, but I would say that some kids would benefit from a 'practice' showcase. Being from the north as well, you are right that most warm-weather states churn out talent more consistently. It would definitely be a great experience to see how he stacks up against tougher competition.
-----------------------
I've never had a kid go through this process so you may want to consider someone's opinion that has, but I would say that some kids would benefit from a 'practice' showcase. Being from the north as well, you are right that most warm-weather states churn out talent more consistently. It would definitely be a great experience to see how he stacks up against tougher competition.
-----------------------
Posse,
Go to one a soon as you can. If you can find one up north that you can drive to then you can save the airfare. If not you will have to fly. They are a great reality check for where your son's talent and potential are, so well worth the $549. Its not like you have to go to a zillion of them. We went to 2, the first one to scope out the wolves and the second one to focus on doing better. It gave us what we needed to know. Maybe not what our egos liked but definitively helps for mapping out a strategy.
I should add that he went "late" at 17 and started this whole recruiting process very late as well (as a Senior), but in hind sight I think that getting started earlier would have been better.
Go to one a soon as you can. If you can find one up north that you can drive to then you can save the airfare. If not you will have to fly. They are a great reality check for where your son's talent and potential are, so well worth the $549. Its not like you have to go to a zillion of them. We went to 2, the first one to scope out the wolves and the second one to focus on doing better. It gave us what we needed to know. Maybe not what our egos liked but definitively helps for mapping out a strategy.
I should add that he went "late" at 17 and started this whole recruiting process very late as well (as a Senior), but in hind sight I think that getting started earlier would have been better.
Posse
you have a PM
you have a PM
Don't waste your money. PG is a great venue but your guy is too young and he isn't playing elite ball against top competition yet. OBA is good but not great. In a couple years 15-16 you should look at elite BB. It can be expensive but that is where you will see how good he is. If you do that be careful where the elite team places most of their players.
The closes PG event would be probably in the Long Island NY area.
The closes PG event would be probably in the Long Island NY area.
Hi again!
Wow! Now I'm really confused! LOL!
I guess I can understand the totally opposing viewpoints about taking such a young player (=waste of $) and waiting until he's older (= he may receive an opportunity from attending).
Bobblehead: you mention the elite leagues for him in a few years. I do realize that all (most) of the OBA talent pool moves to this stream if only to gain exposure by playing in US tournaments and attending US showcases. They cost MUCHO $$$$!!! I just thought maybe, for a bit less, we could check things out by attending a showcase much earlier. We could find out that he's a dime a dozen, we could find out that he has a natural talent....who knows? I guess it would just be nice to know before we continue on the path. I don't know. I really am pretty confused by all of it.
TR: Thanks! Sent one right back at ya!
*off topic* is there no way to see that you have a PM on this site without being told? I see messages like that often and I also can't find a place that tells me I have a new message or whatever. Just curious and learning how this place works. Thanks
Wow! Now I'm really confused! LOL!
I guess I can understand the totally opposing viewpoints about taking such a young player (=waste of $) and waiting until he's older (= he may receive an opportunity from attending).
Bobblehead: you mention the elite leagues for him in a few years. I do realize that all (most) of the OBA talent pool moves to this stream if only to gain exposure by playing in US tournaments and attending US showcases. They cost MUCHO $$$$!!! I just thought maybe, for a bit less, we could check things out by attending a showcase much earlier. We could find out that he's a dime a dozen, we could find out that he has a natural talent....who knows? I guess it would just be nice to know before we continue on the path. I don't know. I really am pretty confused by all of it.
TR: Thanks! Sent one right back at ya!
*off topic* is there no way to see that you have a PM on this site without being told? I see messages like that often and I also can't find a place that tells me I have a new message or whatever. Just curious and learning how this place works. Thanks
7 Steps: forgot this part in my 1st post to you.
Our son attended Ron Wolforth's Elite Pitchers Boot Camp last October. It was a 3 day clinic held at the Baseball Zone in Mississauga (just outside of Toronto). FANTASTIC program! I attended the entire thing as a parent spectator and learnt so much. His stuff just made total sense. I had more than a few laughs when things were pointed out as to the (generally) worthless drills that most teams run/pitchers do. Eye opening, to say the least!
Our boy was pretty much the youngest player there but Ron, I'm sure, will remember that really tall kid with the mop of curly hair! LOL! He was great with our son. Just wish Texas was ALOT closer.
I do hope that he and Flint Wallace will come back again this year and if they do...we'll be there for sure!
Thanks for the info on his program though. Sorry I hadn't mentioned that earlier.
Our son attended Ron Wolforth's Elite Pitchers Boot Camp last October. It was a 3 day clinic held at the Baseball Zone in Mississauga (just outside of Toronto). FANTASTIC program! I attended the entire thing as a parent spectator and learnt so much. His stuff just made total sense. I had more than a few laughs when things were pointed out as to the (generally) worthless drills that most teams run/pitchers do. Eye opening, to say the least!
Our boy was pretty much the youngest player there but Ron, I'm sure, will remember that really tall kid with the mop of curly hair! LOL! He was great with our son. Just wish Texas was ALOT closer.
I do hope that he and Flint Wallace will come back again this year and if they do...we'll be there for sure!
Thanks for the info on his program though. Sorry I hadn't mentioned that earlier.
Why not watch a show case and watch the kind of talent that attends.
My son attended PG the summer before his Jr yr. and yes it was worth the money.
When your son is older he could attend pro tryouts as "practice" for showcasing, they are free.
PS
(I thought you have to be invited to attend a perfect game showcase?)
My son attended PG the summer before his Jr yr. and yes it was worth the money.
When your son is older he could attend pro tryouts as "practice" for showcasing, they are free.
PS
(I thought you have to be invited to attend a perfect game showcase?)
Hi njbb
That would certainly work as well. I guess I figured that, since it appears that there will not be PG showcases here in Ontario and we'd have to travel to, I guess, New York state, may as well participate. Your idea would save ALOT of money though, wouldn't it? Hmmm...well, now I just need to find out where they post their showcase and/or tournament schedules by location and decide what to do.
We are headed to a tournament July 2nd-5th in Rehoboth Beach in Delaware so, with any luck, it would be great to just extend that road trip.
Thanks for your idea!
That would certainly work as well. I guess I figured that, since it appears that there will not be PG showcases here in Ontario and we'd have to travel to, I guess, New York state, may as well participate. Your idea would save ALOT of money though, wouldn't it? Hmmm...well, now I just need to find out where they post their showcase and/or tournament schedules by location and decide what to do.
We are headed to a tournament July 2nd-5th in Rehoboth Beach in Delaware so, with any luck, it would be great to just extend that road trip.
Thanks for your idea!
Posse, here is something you may want to think about. PG will give your son a permanent record, available for all to see. If you are just wanting to see where your son stacks up - and he doesn't, at this time, do you want that there for all to see? I don't know anything about your son. How tall is he? How hard does he throw? Answering these questions will help the people here decide how he MAY stack up and whether it would be worth it for him to go. I say that because these are two things that will weigh heavily upon his "projectability" and current ability that PG will judge him on.
If you go to perfectgame.org, you can look up past showcases and see other players profiles and what they scored. You can also find out what showcases are coming up and what might be close to you. Just to give you an idea, my son went last fall. He is 16, 5'9", 160lbs, fastball was 86 mph with a change and curve. In his two innings, he struck out 4, no walks, no hits. He scored an "8".
There are other showcase organizations out there who do not publish their results to the public. If you have any doubts, you may want to start with one of these. I really think 13 or 14 is a little young to worry about it yet. Once he is in HS, and holds his own on the varsity level or dominates at the varsity level, you will want to start to get him exposure.
I would say that PG is more of an exposure organization - no one better - than a let me see if my son is any good organization. Hope this helps and makes sense. Good luck to you and your son.
If you go to perfectgame.org, you can look up past showcases and see other players profiles and what they scored. You can also find out what showcases are coming up and what might be close to you. Just to give you an idea, my son went last fall. He is 16, 5'9", 160lbs, fastball was 86 mph with a change and curve. In his two innings, he struck out 4, no walks, no hits. He scored an "8".
There are other showcase organizations out there who do not publish their results to the public. If you have any doubts, you may want to start with one of these. I really think 13 or 14 is a little young to worry about it yet. Once he is in HS, and holds his own on the varsity level or dominates at the varsity level, you will want to start to get him exposure.
I would say that PG is more of an exposure organization - no one better - than a let me see if my son is any good organization. Hope this helps and makes sense. Good luck to you and your son.
Hi bballman
Thanks for the info. That's another spin on things now. Hadn't thought about the record thing. Good point.
I did post some info on my son on the Canadian Forum of this site. I was asking about PG showcases in Ontario. I think it's still the 1st post on there and not sure if this will work as a link to it or not
http://hsbaseballweb.com/eve/f...=943107993#943107993
I realize that he is young but there is so much for us to learn and I worry about maybe waiting too long and then ending up being too late.
*Hope this doesn't sound really stupid but I'm hoping somebody can explain to me what Varsity and JV mean? Is that a term from the States or will we be trying out for diffeent levels of HS teams like that here in Ontario? Thanks*
Thanks for the info. That's another spin on things now. Hadn't thought about the record thing. Good point.
I did post some info on my son on the Canadian Forum of this site. I was asking about PG showcases in Ontario. I think it's still the 1st post on there and not sure if this will work as a link to it or not
http://hsbaseballweb.com/eve/f...=943107993#943107993
I realize that he is young but there is so much for us to learn and I worry about maybe waiting too long and then ending up being too late.
*Hope this doesn't sound really stupid but I'm hoping somebody can explain to me what Varsity and JV mean? Is that a term from the States or will we be trying out for diffeent levels of HS teams like that here in Ontario? Thanks*
Read your other post Posse. Sounds like his frame is projectable. He's a big kid for his age. Not sure what you said about his velocity. You said 72 on a Bushnell recently (not a good gun), but then you said 80 last summer. 80 would be pretty good for his age, 72 pretty average.
My personal opinion is, if he can hit 80+ this year as a 14 yr. Old consistently, with his size, it may be worth it to go. He should get a decent score to build on. As long as his control is decent and he has an off speed pitch. If he's closer to 72, you ought to wait. I don't think if you wait till after his Freshman year, it is delaying it too long either way. Colleges can't talk to you untill July before Junior year.
I don't know about Canada, but in the US, there are different levels of HS Baseball. Varsity and Junior Varsity. Many HS's have a Freshman or Sophmore team as well. You should check into what your HS has. How he stacks up to the other players in HS will usually a pretty good barometer of talent.
My personal opinion is, if he can hit 80+ this year as a 14 yr. Old consistently, with his size, it may be worth it to go. He should get a decent score to build on. As long as his control is decent and he has an off speed pitch. If he's closer to 72, you ought to wait. I don't think if you wait till after his Freshman year, it is delaying it too long either way. Colleges can't talk to you untill July before Junior year.
I don't know about Canada, but in the US, there are different levels of HS Baseball. Varsity and Junior Varsity. Many HS's have a Freshman or Sophmore team as well. You should check into what your HS has. How he stacks up to the other players in HS will usually a pretty good barometer of talent.
Keep in mind that kids are changing quite a bit at his age. If he does not show well, that doesn't mean that he won't in 2 or 3 years...I don't think it hurts to see how he compares to those his age (which you should get a feel for at some of the larger tourneys) or to see where he needs / wants to be, but I certainly would not count him out of anything at that age!
Posse--
you have a pm
you have a pm
bballman: sorry. I guess my post on the other thread was somewhat confusing.
His pPITCH speed recently, using the not so great Bushnell, was 71-72mph. His coach said he knows that he is throwing quite a bit faster than that. That he would probably be more in the 76+ range using a Jugs or Stalker but that hasn't been done so I can't say for sure. I know that speed isn't the be all and end all of pitching though so I guess it's not that important right now. I am curious to get an accurate reading for him though. It would just be nice to know.
His off speed pitch is consistently -10mph than his fastball.
His BAT speed, last Spring, at almost 13 years old was 80mph. This was measured (or whatever you call it) at the Baseball Zone using a proper gun. Don't know how important bat speed is....just posted it because we had that down from last year.
Oh, I sure hope I don't sound like an idiot....I don't know exactly what I'm talking about when I say this stuff about our son, what these measurements mean, if I'm using the correct jargon, etc. etc. Please forgive any mistakes I'm making in my posts. : )
TurnTwoNet: I hear what you're saying about the way they can change. He is the youngest of our 3 boys (the other 2 were never interested much in athletics) and at 21 and 24 years old...boy, they change so much it's not even funny! I know that our son may decide that friends and girls and hanging out may become more important to him within the next 2-3 years so, who knows where he'll be or what he'll be doing. We can only keep our fingers crossed at this point in time, right? LOL!
OnWabana: Got it! Thanks so much! Very helpful and very much appreciated.
His pPITCH speed recently, using the not so great Bushnell, was 71-72mph. His coach said he knows that he is throwing quite a bit faster than that. That he would probably be more in the 76+ range using a Jugs or Stalker but that hasn't been done so I can't say for sure. I know that speed isn't the be all and end all of pitching though so I guess it's not that important right now. I am curious to get an accurate reading for him though. It would just be nice to know.
His off speed pitch is consistently -10mph than his fastball.
His BAT speed, last Spring, at almost 13 years old was 80mph. This was measured (or whatever you call it) at the Baseball Zone using a proper gun. Don't know how important bat speed is....just posted it because we had that down from last year.
Oh, I sure hope I don't sound like an idiot....I don't know exactly what I'm talking about when I say this stuff about our son, what these measurements mean, if I'm using the correct jargon, etc. etc. Please forgive any mistakes I'm making in my posts. : )
TurnTwoNet: I hear what you're saying about the way they can change. He is the youngest of our 3 boys (the other 2 were never interested much in athletics) and at 21 and 24 years old...boy, they change so much it's not even funny! I know that our son may decide that friends and girls and hanging out may become more important to him within the next 2-3 years so, who knows where he'll be or what he'll be doing. We can only keep our fingers crossed at this point in time, right? LOL!
OnWabana: Got it! Thanks so much! Very helpful and very much appreciated.
quote:Originally posted by Posse:
I know that our son may decide that friends and girls and hanging out may become more important to him within the next 2-3 years so, who knows where he'll be or what he'll be doing. We can only keep our fingers crossed at this point in time, right? LOL!
You bet I understand that as my 14 year old just gave up baseball in favor of lacro$$e...BUT...
I was actually thinking the other way as you said it might eliminate the need if it didn't look like he fit...even if that were the case, he might fit in quite well in 2-3 years...
It's like social health care....Absolutely NOT.
My son has played travel ball awhile and has experience at top tournaments; however, he has not played any showcase tournaments as he is a 14 year old freshman.(15 in summer) He has made what we feel will be a good travel team from central Florida, and plans are to play a memorial day classic in Ft. Myers, USA Jr Olympic Trials, BEST Auburn Invitational, Perfect Game- East Cobb, and BCS Ft. Myers. Most are 16u, with the exception of Auburn,(18u) I am unfamiliar with showcases. This number scoring I know nothing about, is it fixed? As he ages and gets stronger, do the scores go up? Also, since he will be playing with his team, does the team do these evaluations? The only big expense is AU and East Cobb (lodging, food, transportation), as we are close enough to the others and have friends/family to stay with. What do you think? Too much too soon, or OK. We have been looking forward to it, and understand the coaching will be excellent.
jmom
" This number scoring I know nothing about. Is it fixed?"
Can you explain what you mean by that statement?
" This number scoring I know nothing about. Is it fixed?"
Can you explain what you mean by that statement?
I mean, once he gets a number, does that number always show up? Will he have the opportunity to perform at another showcase down the line and improve it? We were really taking this summer as a great opportunity to play some good ball and face good competition- not really worrying about the scouting part because I imagine that will happen in the next year or two. The truth is, if you want good competition at the age of 14+/15, the best competition seems to be in the showcase tournament format, as 14u and 15u seems weaker once you're playing against older kids in high school.
I want to clarify. It's not that league age 14's and 15's are weaker-- they definitely aren't. It's just that as you get this age,particularly if you are in HS, more and more of those kids are playing up, possibly with their school teams or people they have hooked up with through school or travel teams, and their doesn't seem to be as much competition on a local scene, although there is some here and there.
The score only relates to a Perfect Game individual showcase. If you are entering showcase tournaments, there will be no score. If your son plays in a PG/WWBA/BCS tournament, they will have a record on him, but not a public profile and score.
I believe the score can go up, but I would think you have to show significant improvement. I think some of what PG bases the score on is "projectability", meaning that based on what they see, they project you be at the level they assign you. So, I can change, but I would think it's not that easy. You can go to Perfect Game and search for a name of someone and if they have attended multiple individual showcases, they will all be available for viewing.
We have only been to one, so I am speculating as to having your grade increase. I know a couple of people who have gone to multiple showcases with PG. One has been 3 times and his score has remained the same each time. Another has been to many and his score has varied between 7.5 and 8.5 depending on how he did at that showcase.
Big thing jmom, is realize there is a difference between a showcase tournament and an individual showcase. Individual gets graded, tournaments do not.
I believe the score can go up, but I would think you have to show significant improvement. I think some of what PG bases the score on is "projectability", meaning that based on what they see, they project you be at the level they assign you. So, I can change, but I would think it's not that easy. You can go to Perfect Game and search for a name of someone and if they have attended multiple individual showcases, they will all be available for viewing.
We have only been to one, so I am speculating as to having your grade increase. I know a couple of people who have gone to multiple showcases with PG. One has been 3 times and his score has remained the same each time. Another has been to many and his score has varied between 7.5 and 8.5 depending on how he did at that showcase.
Big thing jmom, is realize there is a difference between a showcase tournament and an individual showcase. Individual gets graded, tournaments do not.
bballman,
Thanks so much for your answer. I think I am more relaxed now. I believe you are telling me that his team can play PG at East Cobb, but it won't be an individual showcase, so while people might see him he won't be getting an individual score since it is not an individual showcase. In other words, this year he can go be a part of a team and try to accomplish as much as he can, but wait until next summer to do the individual thing. (That would be the summer after sophomore year when he will be an old 16.) Possibly a trial run in a way.Does that sound like a plan? We don't know the coach or other teammates except for tryouts, but he is the head coach of a top 6A program in Florida, and we think our son can learn alot from the experience.
Thanks so much for your answer. I think I am more relaxed now. I believe you are telling me that his team can play PG at East Cobb, but it won't be an individual showcase, so while people might see him he won't be getting an individual score since it is not an individual showcase. In other words, this year he can go be a part of a team and try to accomplish as much as he can, but wait until next summer to do the individual thing. (That would be the summer after sophomore year when he will be an old 16.) Possibly a trial run in a way.Does that sound like a plan? We don't know the coach or other teammates except for tryouts, but he is the head coach of a top 6A program in Florida, and we think our son can learn alot from the experience.
You got it. And that sounds like a plan. Perfect Game will have him in their data base and some general information is available to a certain level of subscriber to Perfect Game, but he will not receive a "grade" by going to a PG tournament. The more he is seen there the better, especially if he does well.
I'm sure he will learn a lot from the expeience. If you are playing in the 16u even at ECB, maybe we'll run into you there. I am pretty sure my son is playing in the Auburn 18u tournament as well. The one we are going to is June 18 -20. Son plays for the 16u Georgia Hurricanes. Is this the one you guys are going to?
I'm sure he will learn a lot from the expeience. If you are playing in the 16u even at ECB, maybe we'll run into you there. I am pretty sure my son is playing in the Auburn 18u tournament as well. The one we are going to is June 18 -20. Son plays for the 16u Georgia Hurricanes. Is this the one you guys are going to?
I'll send a pm , if I do it right. This is all very new to me-- but fun.
ballman I'm going to try to send a pm with schedule, but I already goofed twice. You might want to check if one goes through. I might change my name to "novice."
Got it and responded.
quote:Originally posted by TurnTwoNet:quote:Originally posted by Posse:
I know that our son may decide that friends and girls and hanging out may become more important to him within the next 2-3 years so, who knows where he'll be or what he'll be doing. We can only keep our fingers crossed at this point in time, right? LOL!
You bet I understand that as my 14 year old just gave up baseball in favor of lacro$$e...BUT...
I was actually thinking the other way as you said it might eliminate the need if it didn't look like he fit...even if that were the case, he might fit in quite well in 2-3 years...
Noooo! He gave up baseball??? Oh...I'd be so heartbroken. I LOVE the baseball atmosphere so much. Good luck to your son in his new sport though.
I hear what you're saying about 2-3 years down the road now. If he's not quite ready to show well now, he may be a different athlete down the road. Good way to think about it. Thanks!
I love this site! Everybody is so helpful and I wanted you guys to know that it is very much appreciated.
: )
