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Area Code Team Tryouts

B baseball08dad10+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by crawdad:

Let's be honest - at the 16-18 year old level select summer teams are increasingly becoming "teams" that players play on when it is convenient for them. .




I think we as a society have taught our children that there is no loyalty to either it be
a team or a job. I say this, because you rarely see the same kids stay on one team for
several years. Also, in the big world people change jobs often. The Pros rarely stay with the
same team, granted some of it is not their doing. We are all chasing the American Dream. !!!
Last edited by baseball08dad
Ken GuthrieKen Guthrie1,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by FormerObserver:


About 20 boys from Texas, LA, OK, maybe make the Texas Rangers Area Code team that travels to California for one week, in August, late in the season.

That ain't messing up a whole lot of select teams...............



Unless about 6 starting pithcers come to you and say......

"Coach, I can't pitch this tournament because I have to throw at Area Code's on Monday"
V Vance34100+ posts
Guys, here is an article I ran across from a LHP who attended the area code workout last year. I'll only use the part of the article that involves the area code.

quote:
"I don't think Kevin realized how good he was until probably last year," Lee Angelle said. "After we got beat out in the state tournament, he got asked to try out for the Area Code Games."

Angelle wasn't picked to the final squads that play each summer in a weeklong series of showcase games in California, but his tryouts at the University of Texas and Houston's Minute Maid Park put him on the radar screens for all the pro and college teams.

The last tryout included a talk on the ins and outs of scouting by the scouts.

"That kind of opened my eyes," Lee Angelle said. "Me and Kevin both were busy trying to learn the ins and outs of college scholarships, and not the pro draft and all that other stuff.

"I didn't have any idea that was coming. That's when all this stuff started getting in our head. 'Gosh, he's good enough to go to the pros.'

"I knew he was good, but I didn't realize he had that potential."


Guys, Scouts have to have guys with Tools. Tools play in the big leagues. But it's not just about the Tools. There are alot of things. Instincts for the game, game awareness, poise, Character of the person, Makeup of the person. and YES, their skills and how they play the game. BUT YOU HAVE GOT TO HAVE TOOLS.

The most important season for a high school player is his High School season. NOT his select team season. Maybe if the Select teams would CUT DOWN to say ONLY a 100 games instead of 150. Maybe the kids could get to some of the showcase events. You know there are more HS kids having Tommy John and Labrum surgery than ever before. What really needs to be happening is kids need to practice more, AND NOT in an expensive INDOOR FACILITY. Kids just play games they never THROW A BALL AGAINST THE WALL FOR AN HOUR or PLAY PEPPER. They never practice so their Tools never get better.

The point of the mater is that the Area Code workout allows a scout to SEE ALL the players at one location without having to DRIVE all over Texas. The scout can make comparrisons of players.They can talk to the player. They can look him in the eye and see who has self esteem and who doesn't. They can meet a parent or answer a question.

The scout is the players best friend. He is the salesman for that player with his org. The Agent makes money on the player. The scout gets NOTHING when he signs a player.

The area code is an ALL STAR WEEK of the best high school players in the country. Just like little league and any other league that picks ALL-STARS. It does have WORTH. SLECT BALL is played so SOMEONE can make money. WHAT SELECT BALL SHOULD BE IS AN AVENUE FOR ADULTS TO HELP HIGH SCHOOL KIDS WITH A PASSION FOR BASEBALL GET EVERY OPPROTUNITY TO PLAY IN COLLEGE AT SOME LEVEL AND HELP THEIR PARENTS WITH SOME OF THE COST FOR COLLEGE. Not put a hundred thousnad dollars in the hands of the guy running the select team.
V Vance34100+ posts
Texan, Lets take the Bruce kid from Beaumont. 1st rd pick in 05. Was projected about the 5th round or even lower coming into his Sr. HIGH SCHOOL SEASON. Had a great HIGH SCHOOL season. Top half of 1st round pick. 1.8 million and NO the Reds scout didn't get a cut BUT the agent did.

Former Observer, aren't you the one who said Area Code was paid for by MLB. So stop typing what you think and passing false information. WILL YA?
V Vance34100+ posts
FORMER OBSERVER

NO, Kasparek was 90-94 at the SCOUTS Game in Minute Maid Park and he was 90-94 with a nasty breaker all fall in select ball. BUT he was 83-86 ALL SPRING LONG of his SENIOR HIGH SCHOOL SEASON.

Pro ball cares less about a college scholarship that a kid has. Pro ball gives 4 year FULL GUARANTEED COLLEGE SCHOLARSHIPS and colleges can only give one year and thats a partial at that.
Last edited by Vance34
Ken GuthrieKen Guthrie1,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by FormerObserver:
You won't have that problem this year, will you...........


Nope, cause I'll be chasing the crappie, training the dog, and taking care of the coolest little dude I have ever laid eyes on.

The pressures of select coaching just beat me down. Roll Eyes

I'm recharging my batteries in order to pursue a 9 year old YMCA team one day.

But I'm trying to get my arm in shape in case I get an Area Code invite to throw BP.........

Now that is a skill. Big Grin
O OldDallas10+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by Dad0406:
Vance,
Since you are in the know, what is the percentage of those full, guaranteed 4-year scholarships (I think they are part of the negotiation process) that are ever used?

I believe MLB holds the $ in escrow; boy I'd like to have a % of THAT float!


Yes, Vance or whoever can help --- how does the professional player fund/scholarship thing work? Of the young professional players I know, none of them are on that program. I've got a relative who said he was offered that versus increased cash and he took the cash instead. If that is the case, then it's not really an extra benefit it's just an under the cover switch of funding.
Frozen Ropes GMFrozen Ropes GM1,000+ posts
According to Vance kids should sit around banging a tennis ball off the garage all summer until the next showcase so that they can talk to and answer questions from a scout that doesn't gain anything from the MLB club to get the kid drafted and signed. They need not bother to get instruction or learn how to really play the game but get that arm stronger and keep it entirely safe so that they can then be compared to the other kids at the event, have their esteem judged, be drafted, make millions and live happily ever after.

But what about the other 99.9% of the kids that will never be afforded those opportunities beyond just trying out for AC or spending three hundred bucks to attend some over-hyped, jackleg showcase that they get nothing out of?

I have personally been dealing with scouts and colleges every summer for the past twelve years. They seem to learn plenty about the kids by watching them in a competitive environment against other quality kids. It’s not so much about whether or not they hit three bombs or struck out thirteen but rather the quality of their tools, their composure in certain game situations and how they handle themselves as a person. The guys that are making the decisions about scholarship money or draft potential need to know these things and they need to see the kid more than once or twice and definitely in game situations. Why do you think the MLB teams have so many in-home visits leading up to the draft and check out the kids so thoroughly that they pull back his lip to see his gums? And when exactly do the colleges have time to come see the kid play in a game during the HS season?

And as for scouts being your best friend? Just like in any walk of life there are good and bad people involved in everything. Known scouts to be very truthful and honest and others to have been deceitful and misleading. Have not known many to tell a kid to go ahead and turn down money to pursue an education while playing college ball. It’s a business and their employers require them to observe and report - not to disclose every tidbit of information that will be helpful to a family with a hard decision to make.

I personally have no problem with the AC tryout during the summer but think that kids should temper their enthusiasm about it as a be-all-end-all. The truth is it’s a cattle call for baseball players but if you have something that sets you apart you just might get noticed by somebody whether it’s a college coach or a scout. Those scouts though, they already know about the special kids - it’s their job to know. And the colleges? Do you think they’re going to offer an unheard of, surprisingly talented kid a scholly on the spot? Unlikely. Much more plausible that they are going to call his summer team or high school coach that night, get the summer schedule so they can follow him and inquire about his makeup. Then they’ll follow him again through the fall and maybe the spring before basing their decision on a lot of homework

And the AC event in August? We had four players from last summer’s DBAT team attend. Three with the Rangers and one with the White Sox. Did they all attend the AC tryouts for those teams? Nope. Why? Probably because the guys arranging those teams already knew who they wanted or recruited players to the team based on a specific need. Couple of them were told prior to the tryout that they were going to be selected to the AC team so just show up and throw a bullpen if you can. No more no less and then you can go home.

At the AC event one highly regarded pitcher from this area was instructed to throw about forty-five bullpen pitches for the scouts after he had already warmed up and before he took the mound for his two innings. Said he was so tired before he pitched in the game that he was running on fumes. So did they have his health and best interest at heart by running him into the ground that day so they could see him just one more time out of the twenty times they had already been to his HS and summer games to watch him? Did this help his status or was he just a commodity being examined?

As for cost to go to AC, it’s not cheap. One of our kids had a fund raiser to pay for he and his family to attend. They enjoyed the experience. Was it beneficial to him potentially being drafted? Who knows. I have to think he would be drafted pretty high anyway had he not gone. Would the players have skipped the World Series in Farmington to go had we made it? We’ll never know because we didn’t. Is it worth the risk of a pitcher to potentially hurt his draft status by pitching at the AC event in August after throwing all spring and summer armed with a wing that is without doubt not at its full strength and with the potential for overuse at the event? Not for me to answer.

My advice is to go to the AC tryout and do your best. Be prepared for a long day and the fact that you probably won’t be invited to Long Beach. Take from it what you can get and try your best to make an impression on somebody. Afterwards, go have a good dinner with friends or family and get back on the field the next day. Enjoy playing and learning the game and making memories with your teammates. If you’re one of the relatively few lucky ones that we may get to watch on TV one day…..relish the opportunities that are coming your way and try your best to not believe all the hype – whether good or bad.

Finally, to imply that kids injure their arms from summer ball is ridiculous. I’d like to also add that not all select programs are based upon the need to make money. Not that it matters to anybody reading but our teams don’t make a dime. Lose quite a bit actually due to the generosity of Cade and Kyle Griffis at DBAT.
Last edited by Frozen Ropes GM
penjapenja10+ posts
Vance, I am curious then. Player A is a highly touted by the scouts Player B is on the radar but maybe a 6 to 10th rounder. Player A High School team just cannot field the ball or hit the ball. Player A ends season his season 7-5. Era of 2.55. Still has the heat, placement, all tools intact. Player B team just has incredible fielding and batting and goes all the way to state. He is throwing a lil harder than previous. Has good control. His ERA is 1.25 his W-L Record is 12-1. I know very hypothetical but still curious the same.
C crawdad100+ posts
Vance is partially correct - the senior high school season is probably MORE important for a draft eligible player because it is the LAST season just before the June 6 draft. That makes sense for obvious reasons - the most important baseball season is the current one (or most current).

Still, to say that summer ball is NOT important is not right either. Summer ball is a great chance to get "noticed" by scouts and college recruiters. In fact college coaches cannot scout at all until the summer since they are immersed in their own spring college seasons during high school ball. The other obvious benefit of summer ball (at least very competitive summer ball) is the chance for the player to further develop his skills playing against a very high level of competition.

For college recruiting I would say that the summer season between the junior and senior years is probably the most "important" season since that is the season that begins the early recruitment process.

Anyway, all the seasons are important.

Where the arm problems come into play is when the Fall and certainly Winter seasons are used for continual baseball playing. In my opinion the Fall season should be much less intense than the summer season. Taking every other weekend off in regard to tournaments or double headers I think would be a good idea. And November - December should be definite "no baseball" times. Some young kids I know play almost year around because their parents are scared to death that they might "lose their edge" if they take some time off.

Anyway, I got off subject. But I would say this - for ML Draft the senior high school season is most important. For college recruiting it would be the summer between the junior and senior years. But BOTH high school and summer seasons are important for player development and recruiting.
Last edited by crawdad
V Vance34100+ posts
Crawdad, didn't say summer ball wasn't important. Just said 150 games isn't that important or even a 100. Summer ball has worth, good worth.

What I did say in other terms was this.

DBAT and all his select buddies and all the indoor facility guys CHARGE an arm and a leg to coach baseball, teach baseball. You know what the problem is They'd change Mickey Mantle to if he walked through the door!

DBAT, what I said was THROW a BALL, not hit a tennis ball! Its all important, the select team the showcase whatever, etc. What is crazy is to charge a hard working family 5,000 bucks to allow a kid to play. DBAT, why not let them play for free? Why not teach skills free? Tell me DBAT how much do you charge to change good hitters to bad ones?
V Vance34100+ posts
College Sch plan is given along with the bonus. UNLESS a player would rather have that money in hand.

When the player registers for class, the school bills the Commisioners office. They in turn send payment to the school.

The player has until the end of the 2nd year AFTER he no longer is playing to use the scholarship or he looses it. However, in most cases the player can petition the Commisioners office for a 3rd year.

Its a great plan, BUT up to the player to use.
Frozen Ropes GMFrozen Ropes GM1,000+ posts
Vance, $5000 to play and 100-150 games are absurd numbers to be thowing out about summer ball. I was curious about your posts for a while but your misleading information and exaggerations have caused you to lose credibillity with me. You have entered CoCo Coocoo Puff territory.

If you're really a scout or someone involved in the baseball business - come see me at a ball game this summer and we can discuss the merits of your observations. Our schedule is posted on the web site below....
Last edited by Frozen Ropes GM
V Vance34100+ posts
DBAT, it is happening! Tell me DBAT what is the fee to play on a select team with the DBATS. Also, tell me what you charge for an hour lesson?

Tell me DBAT, how many Games does a player on your team play in one calender year? Thats summer, fall, spring and winter.

Credibility, ok. And making MICKEY MANTLE into a non prospect IS CREDIBLE??
Last edited by Vance34
Frozen Ropes GMFrozen Ropes GM1,000+ posts
quote:
Vance said:

DBAT and all his select buddies and all the indoor facility guys CHARGE an arm and a leg to coach baseball, teach baseball. You know what the problem is They'd change Mickey Mantle to if he walked through the door!

Old Pitcher, what I'm talking about is that if MICKEY MANTLE had walked into a indoor facility they'd tell him he had a bad swing and then they'd charge him to work his HALL OF FAME skills out into a NON PROSPECT.

They is the instructors at the indoor facility.

Maybe if the Select teams would CUT DOWN to say ONLY a 100 games instead of 150. Maybe the kids could get to some of the showcase events. You know there are more HS kids having Tommy John and Labrum surgery than ever before.

What is crazy is to charge a hard working family 5,000 bucks to allow a kid to play. DBAT, why not let them play for free? Why not teach skills free? Tell me DBAT how much do you charge to change good hitters to bad ones?

DBAT, it is happening! Tell me DBAT what is the fee to play on a select team with the DBATS. Also, tell me what you charge for an hour lesson?

Credibility, ok. And making MICKEY MANTLE into a non prospect IS CREDIBLE??

Well can you tell me where ALL this players are they are instructing? Texas has less prospects for 07 than Nevada does. NOW THAT IS SAD

I apologize to all to stray from the original AC content of this thread but felt I should respond to Vance one last time as he seems to have a significant chip on his shoulders and a desire to misinform people either through purpose or ignorance.

First: I do not work at the DBAT facility and do not personally give lessons. You're barking up the wrong tree there and unjustly so at that. Many instructors throughout the area provide a valuable service to ballplayers and deserve to be compensated for that service.

Second: Once all tournaments, league fees, 3 sets of uniforms, equipment and all expenses have been factored in it's about $15-20K that we are out up-front for the summer team. That stuff isn't free you know. Then the owners of DBAT generously throw in a significant amount of that $15-20K to offset the cost to the families. The remaining amount is then divided out based upon the number of players. I can attest to the fact that not a single dollar goes into the DBAT coffers. I suppose it would be ideal if someone ponied up the entire cost of the team but that is not generally feasible - especially when DBAT has three teams. As you can see it is a far cry from the $5K per player you suggested for the 50-60 games that we play during the summer.

Third: The number of prospects in Nevada, South Dakota, Maine or Kuwait compared to Texas is as meaningless as your Mickey Mantle comment which was so random and silly that it takes away credibility from any other statements you have made in this thread.

From this point on should you need further enlightenment about how we run our summer program please e-mail me directly so we don't have to bore the readers here.
Last edited by Frozen Ropes GM
V Vance34100+ posts
DBAT, ok, not barking. Thanks. Still simple questions not answered. Guess you don't know. Which is ok.

All I'm saying is don't bash Area Code. Kids playing baseball is a good thing. The price that it takes to play in todays world is a bad thing.

My Mickey Mantle comment is a true one. Ever watch a lesson. Ever see a coach just say "Good swing" keep it up. Keep your money you're a good hitter already!
Ken GuthrieKen Guthrie1,000+ posts
DBAT,

I find it interesting what some of the baseball community thinks a team earns in profits.

If they only knew exactly how much DBAT actually lost in monies spent. Roll Eyes

Not counting the money the coaches spent out of their own pockets.

Not counting the vacation time spent to travel the country satisfying players and families in what is considered "must attend" events.

Although you and I have had our differences, I can appreciate the time you and others have spent helping young players.
Frozen Ropes GMFrozen Ropes GM1,000+ posts
I told Rusty that after catching lightening in a bottle last summer he should have retired at the top of his game....


Ken, you forgot to add:

All the times the wife says:
"You have another game tonight???"

Or when the kids say:
"Hi, Dad. Remember us?"

Or, my personal favorite:
"You just got home from a doubleheader - why do you have to rehash it for three hours on the phone with the coaches?"

Ahhhhh...but it's baseball. Smile
Last edited by Frozen Ropes GM
Frozen Ropes GMFrozen Ropes GM1,000+ posts
quote:
All I'm saying is don't bash Area Code.
I never intended for my original post to be a bash of Area Code. I stated information that I have direct knowledge of as well as some observations.

I will say again that I think kids should attend the AC tryout if they can. Go and bust your tail but temper your enthusiasm about being given an invitation to the event in August. Only a few will be selected and the majority of those have already been decided upon whether they choose to attend the tryout or not. Those kids are currently being recruited to go to the August AC event just like I recruit kids to play for our summer team. One big name committed to going to the event may entice another big name to commit to go and that leads to a marked increase in legitimacy and interest of the event and so on and so on....

If you go to the workout with the expressed desire of using it for exposure purposes and can set yourself apart you may create an opportunity for yourself. But also realize that there are many avenues to create the same opportunity....not just a one-day tryout.

I purposely left our DBAT 18 schedule open on June 13th so that some of our players could go to the tryout. They'll most likely go down to Waco, bide their time patiently awaiting their turn, display their talents and then be back on the field with us the next day to play in a baseball game. A game in which there will undoubtedly be scouts and college coaches in attendance.

The cycle continues and life goes on.

It is what it is.
Last edited by Frozen Ropes GM
D dbg_fan1,000+ posts
This topic always elicits passionate responses and opinions.

KG preaches very strongly against showcase events for aspiring pro/college baseball players. The team is more important than the individual. The good players will be seen if they are on the HS & summer select team. (As an aside, this is the same fallacy that HS coaches use to argue against select teams.)

Vance is a strong proponent of the showcase, Area Code in particular. Even going so far as to make the mistake of insulting the men & businesses that run select organizations.

Most likely, the truth is that neither of these extreme positions is the correct path for every player who wants to play baseball beyond HS. My own son played for 3 of the major select programs in Dallas. One of those programs forbids players from attending showcase events, though some pitchers manage to work around that restriction. In the summer following my son's Jr year John (Knights) was very cooperative in allowing son to attend 2 camps. Had my son not been seen playing at the Stanford camp he would not be attending Dartmouth. Once seen at camp, college coaches called past/present summer coaches & HS coach for opinions & background on son.

My opinion is that baseball players need both avenues of exposure. Showcases serve their purpose, as do summer teams. The best HS summer programs I have encountered make allowances for players to attend a reasonable number of showcases. These events increase the number of scouts that see a player and increase the number of potential destinations (colleges) for that player.
Old PitcherOld Pitcher1,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by Vance34:
Old Pitcher

They is the instructors at the indoor facility.

What makes me say/ think this.

Well can you tell me where ALL this players are they are instructing? Texas has less prospects for 07 than Nevada does. NOW THAT IS SAD!


Vance,

Are you talking about a particular facility or all facilities in general?
S SGDad10+ posts
Since the game doesn't start till 8:00, I'll throw my worthless 2 cents in.

My kid has been playing select in the area for years, and for a few different teams. There has been only 1 team where I thought that the team was only in it for the money. For the most part, I really doubt the idea that coaches and gms are getting rich off select. On MANY occasions, if the coach thought the kid was willing to put in the work, the coach would meet at the facility, we'd offer to pay, he'd shake his head. There is no way, without select, my son would have 1/2 the talent he has today without the help of these men.
C ctown1010+ posts
I usually just read these posts and sometimes learn and sometimes laugh. But when someone starts bashing DBAT, I will have to step up. DBAT and their staff have gone above and beyond in helping my son learn the game of baseball. Not just the "skills" but also about how to play the game with character and good sportsmanship. Cade,Kermit,and Kyle as well as the various coaches through the years have all earned my respect and appreciation. We are from a small town in East Texas with a less than stellar high school team. Any and every penny I have spent, which is nowhere close to what Vance is stating, is well worth it. We have met some great people in DBAT and as well as the other kids and their parents. We realize what the AC tryouts are and have no great expectations other than it is another chance to get on a ballfield and get after it. DBAT has always been supportive and honest with my son and they have given him chances that would not have been possible any where else.
S screwball100+ posts
ctown, excellant post. i do not know DBAT but i have come to respect and appreciate his posts. we too play select and do not spend near the money vance is talking about.

with regard to vance's comments about select hitting lessons and changing swings. Is this something that only happens in select organizations? High School coaches do not tinker with kids swings? Case in point, my son played select summer and fall and had his weekly hitting sessions with a select coach. HS season starts, first game he goes 3 for 3 with one HR. Next HS practice the coach is totally changing his swing.
Panther DadPanther Dad5,000+ posts
I see that -- congratulations on the 1000-post thing. I hope it's ok to continue to hope PantherSon has an AC opportunity. Smile

A few catch-up observations....

Despite this discussion causing frustration and exasperation for some, it is a good one. Good points have been made by several posters. Let's not let disagreement turn into personal attack. Also, when we discuss summer select, let's not single out a specific program for criticism. I think DBAT GM 18 did a nice job defending his....turf.....but DBAT is not unlike many other summer select programs when it comes to the challenges of offering excellent opportunities while trying to control costs. And there are charitable forces behind many programs. DBAT is a little different because of their facility and such. I appreciate the behind-the-scenes generosity of many associated with DBAT. I'm sure it occurs in other groups as well.

Those of you that think Vance's numbers are crazy ---- there was an article in the DMN last year that focused on select sports -- and select baseball in particular. Some well-known area athletes and their teams were mentioned -- and the price tag was twice the number that Vance was throwing around this week. Now, I have to say....I have never been involved with a team that charged $5000 in team fees (alone), but that number is certainly not obsurd when adding up the costs associated with summer baseball. We've had this discussion before ---- I understand a family can drop $5000 on a summer beach trip. Yadda....Yadda....

Concerning AC --- why is this event singled out here? In general, the high-profile events are not cheap -- including JO, AFLAC (select few, I know), East Cobb tourneys, showcases in general, etc. Area Code games is an opportunity. Most of us hate the idea of events like this one conflicting with team schedules. It takes a degree of organizational planning.

Anyway....I heard a rumor about Team USA, FO. Smile
Last edited by Panther Dad
Frozen Ropes GMFrozen Ropes GM1,000+ posts
quote:
Anyone know how Texas did last year in Area Code? I bet they were the fastest team from dugout to batter's box and back to dugout again. Great team speed.

Baseballpapa - I know you have asked this questions several times and it seems no one knows how the Rangers group did at AC. I do not. We had four pitchers attend last year (three with the Rangers) and not a single one of them ever mentioned the outcomes of any of the games. They went and did their thing.

I think the event is geared more toward individual performance than team performance and not so much of an emphasis on winning. Probably more like an all-star game than say playing for your city, school, select team or country.
Last edited by Frozen Ropes GM
K KCBaseball100+ posts
AC has so much hype because you get so many scouts watching your moment in the sun.

My '06 pitched 2 innings at Long Beach last summer with about 150 radar guns pointed at him. He got to CHOOSE which college scholarship to accept and heard from schools he had only dreamed about. AC was the only event he ever attended. I don't think many other events produce this sort of result.

The baseball was free. The cost to get there was the best investment we ever made. And we had a great family vacation in Calif. when the baseball ended. We will be eternally thankful to the scouts who gave my son a chance at AC ... no politics involved... he was chosen because he's a good pitcher. Its no exaggeration to say it opened so many doors and changed my son's life.
Bighit15Bighit155,000+ posts
quote:
This all started when I said I didn't understand why there was so much hype on AC.

I think the reason there is so much hype is that if you go to the tryout you can get seen, but if you make the team and go to Long Beach, you get to play in front of the decision makers in a very unique forum. The AC can really change opinions or increase your value. Just as it did for KCbaseball's son. That is why there is hype. It is easily understandable whether you agree or not.
Ken GuthrieKen Guthrie1,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by Bighit15:
quote:
This all started when I said I didn't understand why there was so much hype on AC.

I think the reason there is so much hype is that if you go to the tryout you can get seen, but if you make the team and go to Long Beach, you get to play in front of the decision makers in a very unique forum.


And again, those players that get the invite (usually before the workout) will get seen several times by the "important" people regardless if they are in attendance.
V Vance34100+ posts
Ken, are you saying the AC should be for 2nd level players because the top level guy is gonna be seen anyway?

Come on, so the BEST players get penalized for being the best?

You can never see a player to many times. I'll guarantee you that EVERY 1st and 2nd and 3rd and 4th rd pick in the draft has been seen multiple times by the upper level scouts in each org. As a mater of fact I'll be willing to bet that some directors have seen Kershaw, Walden, Lincoln, Stubbs, McCullough, Drabek 3 or 4 times this spring alone. ANd as many as 7 or 8 times.

Any time you make someone an instant Millionaire there will be alot of people involved in the out come of who gets picked.
Last edited by Vance34
SWACSWAC500+ posts
Vance your comments would lead one to believe you are bashing DBAT. You stated you were knocking the cost to pay and the instructors. Did you mean all facilities or just this facility? You don't know what the cost is to play if you have never had a son on one of the teams. Based on your comments you have not. In my opinion, you are way off base. DBAT is a well respected organization among its peers. Don't take shots because others maynot agree with your opinion.
Bighit15Bighit155,000+ posts
quote:
And again, those players that get the invite (usually before the workout) will get seen several times by the "important" people regardless if they are in attendance.


This is true, but when you have all the organizations there and you perform well, you can really raise your stock and maybe even create a sense of urgency. That could lead to more moooooney! So even though you might think it ridiculous, people want to take evey opportunity. Just human nature. If a 1st rounder can up his pick by 3 or 4 spots. He gets more money. It is a greeed thing. It is a business at this point. I am not saying it is right or wrong, but in the words of Chris Rock; "I understand!"
V Vance34100+ posts
No SWAC, I'm not! There are some that do a good job. But let me add, DBAT sure hasn't told us what it cost to play either. Alot of times the few good get way overshadowed by the many bad. Bad meaning the ones taking advantage of the parents and padding their pockets.

quote:
And again, those players that get the invite (usually before the workout) will get seen several times by the "important" people regardless if they are in attendance.


You know the funny thing here is that the scouts and cross checkers and scouting directors THROW UP RED FLAGS when those best guys aren't at every showcase, workout, and big tournament. They say, "Why isn't _______ here. Is he hurt. Whats he doing? He lacks passion. He has no desire. If he wanted to play he'd be here. Etc." now thats bottom line!
Last edited by Vance34
Bighit15Bighit155,000+ posts
quote:
Let's not forget... MANY of those that try out are there for the opportunity to play at the collegiate level. It's not necessarily a "greed" thing. It's an avenue to fulfill a young man's dream.

I used the word greed. I did not imply that it was a "bad" thing. If you notice, I also used it in the context of a potentially very high draft pick.
Frozen Ropes GMFrozen Ropes GM1,000+ posts
quote:
Vance said:

But let me add, DBAT sure hasn't told us what it cost to play either.


quote:
Second: Once all tournaments, league fees, 3 sets of uniforms, equipment and all expenses have been factored in it's about $15-20K that we are out up-front for the summer team. That stuff isn't free you know. Then the owners of DBAT generously throw in a significant amount of that $15-20K to offset the cost to the families. The remaining amount is then divided out based upon the number of players. I can attest to the fact that not a single dollar goes into the DBAT coffers. I suppose it would be ideal if someone ponied up the entire cost of the team but that is not generally feasible - especially when DBAT has three teams. As you can see it is a far cry from the $5K per player you suggested for the 50-60 games that we play during the summer.


In order to bolster your theory about 'evil' instructors/facilities, your above statement implies that I have something to hide. I thought my earlier breakdown in this thread would have been easy enough for you to figure out. It would certainly seem that if our total team expenses ran between $15-20K then the player fee would not be close to the $5000 per player as you claim - unless we had just three or four players. In case you were not aware, it is very difficult to play 100-150 summer games with 4 players. We usually carry 17 or 18 players on our roster and the cost runs between $800-$1200 per summer, per player.

It is apparent that you want to come across as a knowledgable individual but after reading your posts it is apparent that you are not. More likely you are someone whose kid was wronged by some instructor and now you troll these boards with an intention of providing misleading and outright false information.

Stop by the field this summer and I'll be glad to take you over to DBAT for a tour. Heck, I might can even get your kid a free lesson. Smile
Last edited by Frozen Ropes GM
Panther DadPanther Dad5,000+ posts
We're getting close, T-Ball....but not quite yet. The horse is looking very pale though. Smile

I'd really like to hear more about specific personal AC experiences -- wish we knew more about KCBaseball's situation.

If you're ready to tune out everyone, feel free....I know there is a certain redundancy here.
If you're ready to tune out everyone, feel free....I know there is a certain....never mind.

Cool
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