arguing

You can not be serious with such a stupid question.

Are you saying that the player turns his back to the ump and argues then he gets a call? That makes no sense.

Any real ump would never give a call or hold an argument against a player. They just make safe and out calls and that's it.

Besides players NEVER argue with an ump EVER. That is the coaches job to come out and discuss what went on with the ump. Players never say a word.

Hornetz,

Another perspective as well...

As a pitcher who had the ability to locate pitches, if I saw a guy unhappy with a call or argued a pitch call it created an extra surge of adrenalin for me. It shows a weakness and most likley you were going to get the same pitch you argued very soon after. You apparently didnt think it was a strike the first time and the ump did. The disciplined hitter who made adjustments to the umps zone was always the toughest out. The guy who throws bats and argues calls, they get themselves out.... jmho works the same with the Pitchers too.. This is a game of making adjustments.. at least for the good ones..

This is one of the Golden Rules of Baseball .

quote:

Originally posted by coach2709:
Besides players NEVER argue with an ump EVER. Players never say a word.

One of the first rules of baseball we taught our son. The sooner players learn this rule the better the game will be for them and their team mates. Unfortunately some players never ever learn it.

quote:

Originally posted by hornetz3B:
to any umpires: if a player turns around and argues a call, do you give him a call to even it out? and if you do, under what circumstances? (how nice does he have to be? )

Umps should never make a makeup calls for any reason for a player or coach. A player that argues with an ump will get explained that he needs to play baseball and be quiet. If he chooses not to then he may make an early exit.

I took much of this from a past post of mine.....

"to any umpires: if a player turns around and argues a call, do you give him a call to even it out? and if you do, under what circumstances? (how nice does he have to be? )"



Never....Two wrongs never make one right.....the moment you deliberately make a "wrong" call to even up your inital mistake, you have wrongly interjected yourself into the outcome of the game....

A genuine mistake, or missed call is part of the game, part of the human factor....but to deliberatly make a wrong call is cheating....now you have effectively wronged 2 teams and rightly so, given them reason to doubt your judgment and ethics.....

Now to the obvious part of this post..........

Never..........

Never..........

Never..........argue a call with the umpire..as has been stated .....your Manager (head coach) has that job.....all you are going to do is get grief......

Here's a video

The better question would not be if he gets the call, but rather if he starts to get even fewer calls...if the kid gets obviously frustrated and humiliates the ump, maybe 3 games later if he gets that same ump, does the ump have a larger strike zone? I'm asking to umpires out there because honestly, if I were an ump, and a kid showed me up...strike zone might widen

quote:

I'm asking to umpires out there because honestly, if I were an ump, and a kid showed me up...strike zone might widen

That would likely depend on if you were a great ump or a mediocre ump. IMHO the great umps are the ones that you rarely even notice, they just do their job without having an ego to stroke.

I think that anyone who wants to argue with any Ump should go look in a mirror and question that person's sanity.
That being said, I know that at times the coach or manager "has" to argue so that the players know that he'll stick up for them, but I have usually seen that when arguments start with an umpire, the game is all downhill from there.
And all umps can say with the utmost honesty that they don't let any of that affect how they call a game, but I believe that no matter how much they try, you are on their subconscience mind for the rest of the game and if you get "bad" enough, then maybe for games after that. It affects some umps more than others. I can think of an ump that let things roll off his back very good, but I would think that even he has a point that you shouldn't cross.
My 3rd oldest umpired younger kids games when a teenager and I was surprised at times when I hollered at an ump about a call, he would get on my case about it. Once it was a blatent missed call and when he jumped on me for yelling, he agreed that it was a blown call, but that I was wrong for yelling and that the ump has a hard job out there.
A funny story - An ump I know who had coached one of our kids back in Babe Ruth league; we got to talking one time. He told me of a game he umped(in Babe Ruth league after his kid was in HS) where the parents were yelling at him about his balls and strikes calls. He even knew a few of them. He told me it got so persistent that he finally walked over to them, leaned on the fence, and proceeded to yell out "play ball". The pitcher threw the ball and the ump called it and the parents were really whooping and hollering and asking him what he was doing. His reply was that they seemed to have such a good view for calling pitches that he thought he would take advantage of it. Well after a few pitches like that and he went back behind the plate to a nice, quiet sideline!

Tim Robertson

quote:

to any umpires: if a player turns around and argues a call, do you give him a call to even it out? and if you do, under what circumstances? (how nice does he have to be?

Yes, I do even it up.

Ex:
Player Dis's me, that was a ball, I was safe, etc.
I dis him, your gone.
There, all even. One dis apiece.

One of my biggest peeves. Players nor coaches have a need to "argue" anything with an umpire.

Many believe coaches have to "protect their players", well, if you really want to protect your players, have em take up piano or something else, baseball is dangerous.

Really though if you want to protect your players, then know the rules, know when a legitimate protest should apply, or know the rules enough, so you can trap blue, ex; "Blue was that ball foul before or afer it went over the bag?" Blue says "after", then "protest" his misinterpretion/application of a rule. Move on.

The skipper may come out and "argue", but, it must be "very well cloaked", under the; ah, blue, I think you may have missed some important information, perhaps your partner could assist you with, or, blue, I think that call was in direct violation of the rules, period.

A player may, flail their arms "a bit", may even give the what, shoulder shrug, disagree with a call to themselves as they trot back to their position, but they may not stand and argue with an umpire.

I say this with just as much confiction whether I'm coaching (17yrs worth), playing (uh, 40 some yrs), or umpiring (coming quickly upon my 31st yr).

Some examples:
As a coach, I clearly explain this to my players, coaches and fans.

State SRBR tourny, championship game, my stud (F1, F9, and clean-up hitter) hits a two out, bases loaded, sinking laser towards LC. F8 lay's out and makes a "duh, duh, dunt", catch of the LD.
My stud let's loose with an expletive, removes his (as in not the teams) helmet and slams it down, then drop kicks it half way to RF. PU, says to me as I'm returning from 3B box to the 1B dugout, "that's enough from him", as U1, is warning my stud, I say "I agree", and as loud as I can, "I have a substitution, scrub XX for stud, XX CF, sorry about that blue". And my stud wasn't even arguing, but he was "embarrasing my team" and my community, done.

As a player, F1; I have asked, "down, outside, up, in"?
In a manner which only F2, B and PU could tell, I never had one tell me to knock it off, rather just a simple "yep or whatever the location". I never stated "that was a strike", rather feigned it off as a legitimate fact finding question.

I still play SPSB, with a younger crowd, I'll say mid to late 20's, I am always on them, they know I am an umpire so they generally respect my answers: But I don't pull many punches with em.
Ex: bases loaded, 1 out, GB to F6, on the close relay to 1st for the inning ending DP, BR goes into their; "What?, I beat that", whiny antics. I will interject quickly, (regardless of what I thought the call was), "Shut up, lets go, you just hit a two hopper to F6 with the bases loaded, you deserve to be out, let's go".

Hope that helps.

quote:

Originally posted by baseball168:
...I'm asking to umpires out there because honestly, if I were an ump, and a kid showed me up...strike zone might widen

Kids dont show up umpires, they just embarrass themselves and have to face the punishment. Holding a grudge, then getting back at a kid, maybe days later, says something about that person.
My rep is important to me, and Im not changing my calls to punish....If you cant stand a little heat, stay out of the uni...

Umps what about when its not the kids??

I got this email from a friend this morning:

quote:

Little League Parents

At one point during a game, the coach said to one of his
young players, "Do you understand what cooperation is? What
a team is?" The little boy nodded in the affirmative.

"Do you understand that what matters is that we play
together as a team?"

The little boy nodded yes.

"So," the coach continued, "when a strike is called, or
you're out at first, you don't argue or curse or attack the
umpire. Do you understand all that?"

Again the little boy nodded.

"Good," said the coach. "Now go over there and explain it to
your parents."

Received from Thomas Ellsworth.