If a coach tells you "arm bar makes swing longer than needed". What does he mean by this?
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Your "bottom hand" arm is straight or near straight at the elbow instead of bent and relaxed. This is likely happening either at initial set up or when you load. This will make it very difficult to stay inside and be quick to the ball.
In the video (below) four different batters are shown with varying degrees of bend in their lead elbow while IN THEIR STANCE, just prior to launching the bat.
He then uses slow footage to try to prove his key point: Try to maintain that angle of bend--whatever it is-- through contact.
Note that Griffey and Holiday have virtually barred lead arms in their stance.
Example--If a batter set up in his stance with a 90 deg. bend in the lead elbow, and then straightened (barred) the arm as he swung and made contact more or less even with his front foot, then you could say that he bars his lead arm AS HE SWINGS, which pushes the hand path farther away from the body, making "the swing longer than needed."
The handpath would be shorter if he maintained the original bend through contact.
/www.youtube.com/profile?user=MrBatSpeed#p/u/4/vS3HTHXspmk
He then uses slow footage to try to prove his key point: Try to maintain that angle of bend--whatever it is-- through contact.
Note that Griffey and Holiday have virtually barred lead arms in their stance.
Example--If a batter set up in his stance with a 90 deg. bend in the lead elbow, and then straightened (barred) the arm as he swung and made contact more or less even with his front foot, then you could say that he bars his lead arm AS HE SWINGS, which pushes the hand path farther away from the body, making "the swing longer than needed."
The handpath would be shorter if he maintained the original bend through contact.
/www.youtube.com/profile?user=MrBatSpeed#p/u/4/vS3HTHXspmk
quote:Originally posted by cabbagedad:
Your "bottom hand" arm is straight or near straight at the elbow instead of bent and relaxed. This is likely happening either at initial set up or when you load. This will make it very difficult to stay inside and be quick to the ball.
This is a great answer. Let me add how you want the hands moving into and through the zone. Most all good hitters move their hands backwards before they come forwards to hit a pitch. The trouble is that the path the hands take to the pitch can be troublesome and inconsistent. One of those mistakes is the "arm bar" as referred to in the answer above.
What I work with in hitters who have this trouble is making sure that the hands are moving forward with the rotation of the shoulders. Watch this clip of Alex Rodriguez. It's an inside pitch. He does a good job keeping the angle in the bottom arm as well as rotatiing this shoulder in an up and outward fashion. If he had let his hands stray from his body in the early stages as they were coming through the zone, this pitch would have broken his bat.
Rodriguez Clip
Arm bar is caused by having your hands too far from your shoulder/armpit at toe touch.
This makes your front arm straighter than it should be, which makes you sweep through the zone with a "long swing".
This makes your front arm straighter than it should be, which makes you sweep through the zone with a "long swing".
Don't worry about your arm bar. I mean you wouldn't want to hit like this guy.
http://video.search.yahoo.com/...gr=11vo2a73m&newfp=1
http://video.search.yahoo.com/...gr=11vo2a73m&newfp=1
Most coaches make armbar seem like its more of a problem than it really is.
Some of the best hitters, past and present, arm bar.
Some of the best hitters, past and present, arm bar.
I agree Walawala. The other extreme is having too much bend in the lead elbow. A sure recipe for hitting nice double play ground balls. Totally agree with you Einstein. 
Walawala, I have noticed that some of the best lefties really have a serious arm bar. Most great righties have a couple of more degrees of bend in the lead elbow.
Ken Griffey looks like he is almost at 180 degrees on the lead arm and Albert Pujols looks like 175 degrees.
Arm bar actually helps you get your bat head on plane with the pitch. Plus it eliminates timing related issues of straightening the lead elbow at the wrong time during the swing. In one of the above posts it addresses that maintaining the distance between the elbows is important. They reference the Mr. Batspeed video. I would tend to agree with that analysis.
Ken Griffey looks like he is almost at 180 degrees on the lead arm and Albert Pujols looks like 175 degrees.
Arm bar actually helps you get your bat head on plane with the pitch. Plus it eliminates timing related issues of straightening the lead elbow at the wrong time during the swing. In one of the above posts it addresses that maintaining the distance between the elbows is important. They reference the Mr. Batspeed video. I would tend to agree with that analysis.
quote:Originally posted by Walawala:
Most coaches make armbar seem like its more of a problem than it really is.
Some of the best hitters, past and present, arm bar.
Remember though, we're talking not about how far the bottom hand arm goes backward, but what happens as it comes forward. If the bottom hand/arm strays away from the body, that is a problem. Wasn't necessarily caused because of the Griffey-like or Pujols-like movement of the hands backwards, but how the hands come forward. Guys all load their hands in a different fashion.
Nate
edit: deleted stupid question of mine
From Mankin (he's not talking about the Power V phase)
Makes sense to me. I wouldn't recommend something that's guaranteed to reduce bat speed.
quote:Most coaches make armbar seem like its more of a problem than it really is.
From Mankin (he's not talking about the Power V phase)
quote:Extending a flexed elbow as you rotate will straighten out the hand-path and reduce bat-head acceleration.
Makes sense to me. I wouldn't recommend something that's guaranteed to reduce bat speed.
Yes you can hit with an arm bar and an arm bar can take on different variations. Some you can still hit but most will hurt the swing.
Overall if the bottom arm straightens or gets close to being straight which causes the bat head to take a path through the hitting zone farther away from the body is a bad thing. Some people call this casting and it's a pretty accurate term. The arm bar causes the bat head to be "casted" away from the body. This causes bat speed to slow down and will make you late (typically) on inside pitches.
Overall if the bottom arm straightens or gets close to being straight which causes the bat head to take a path through the hitting zone farther away from the body is a bad thing. Some people call this casting and it's a pretty accurate term. The arm bar causes the bat head to be "casted" away from the body. This causes bat speed to slow down and will make you late (typically) on inside pitches.
quote:Originally posted by coach2709:
Yes you can hit with an arm bar and an arm bar can take on different variations. Some you can still hit but most will hurt the swing.
Overall if the bottom arm straightens or gets close to being straight which causes the bat head to take a path through the hitting zone farther away from the body is a bad thing. Some people call this casting and it's a pretty accurate term. The arm bar causes the bat head to be "casted" away from the body. This causes bat speed to slow down and will make you late (typically) on inside pitches.
Well said!
OK, thanks for all the help, but not sure what to do now so here's a video of me taking some swings.
Swing Video Link
Not the best video, but better than nothing. The same coach (not louisville coach) told me I handle inside pitches well, which is kind of confusing with the armbar comment he gave me.
Generally I hit pretty well but not a homerun hitter, only 1 last year, here are some HS stats, but always looking to improve. Open to all advice anyone has.
Batting Avg. 0.545
On Base % 0.781
Slugging % 0.848
OPS (OBP + SLG) 1.629
Swing Video Link
Not the best video, but better than nothing. The same coach (not louisville coach) told me I handle inside pitches well, which is kind of confusing with the armbar comment he gave me.
Generally I hit pretty well but not a homerun hitter, only 1 last year, here are some HS stats, but always looking to improve. Open to all advice anyone has.
Batting Avg. 0.545
On Base % 0.781
Slugging % 0.848
OPS (OBP + SLG) 1.629
It's hard to stop that video at a certain spot, but it looks like your hands are coming forward (leaving your shoulder) too soon. This is causing your hips to not turn fully, which in turn causes your back leg to squish the big (you appear to be on the ball of your foot not the toe at contact, and your knee is not coming forward).
Keep your hands at your shoulder longer, then let your hips rotate fully.
Keep your hands at your shoulder longer, then let your hips rotate fully.
Your HS stats prove you're a great hitter.
The vid quality is poor. When you get better video, see if your lead arm--which as far as I can tell has a lot of bend in your set-up--straightens early in your swing.
If yes, then what you're doing is not typical of most MLB swings. Yet even if that's the case, I'm not saying you won't crush the ball in college. IMHO, be wary of changing the swing that got you there.
The vid quality is poor. When you get better video, see if your lead arm--which as far as I can tell has a lot of bend in your set-up--straightens early in your swing.
If yes, then what you're doing is not typical of most MLB swings. Yet even if that's the case, I'm not saying you won't crush the ball in college. IMHO, be wary of changing the swing that got you there.
jjinmo,
Good, aggressive, athletic swing. You're going to have a lot of fun in this game.
That being said, I would listen to the coach. I do see a bit more lenght in the first half of swing than necessary that may put you at a dissadvantage against higher level pitching. Plenty of players have success with a longer swing, but why not be the best you can be? Definitely don't lose the length on the finish.
Has he said anything about getting your front foot down a bit earlier? I think this would help accomplish some of the things Sultan is referring to.
I'm guessing those numbers you state are JV? If so, you may want to clarify when stating or, better yet, don't bother mentioning them as most HS and college folks put very little value on JV stats.
Regarding ability to hit inside pitches even with an armbar - I could see where, possibly, your quickness and athleticism help you overcome it against pitching that is just fair (heck, some MLB'ers do it). But IMO, typically, if you armbar you are giving up the ability to do something you can do a little better.
Please know that I am taking the liberty of some assumptions here based on the little info we have so far.
In any case, keep swingin' it and have a great year.
Good, aggressive, athletic swing. You're going to have a lot of fun in this game.
That being said, I would listen to the coach. I do see a bit more lenght in the first half of swing than necessary that may put you at a dissadvantage against higher level pitching. Plenty of players have success with a longer swing, but why not be the best you can be? Definitely don't lose the length on the finish.
Has he said anything about getting your front foot down a bit earlier? I think this would help accomplish some of the things Sultan is referring to.
I'm guessing those numbers you state are JV? If so, you may want to clarify when stating or, better yet, don't bother mentioning them as most HS and college folks put very little value on JV stats.
Regarding ability to hit inside pitches even with an armbar - I could see where, possibly, your quickness and athleticism help you overcome it against pitching that is just fair (heck, some MLB'ers do it). But IMO, typically, if you armbar you are giving up the ability to do something you can do a little better.
Please know that I am taking the liberty of some assumptions here based on the little info we have so far.
In any case, keep swingin' it and have a great year.
Mankin has a training device on his website that is designed to help with staying connected.
perfect connxtion
perfect connxtion
quote:Keep your hands at your shoulder longer, then let your hips rotate fully.
In looking at various videos in the hitting section, do ya'll think if I used my lower body more and get better hip rotation that would help to fix this?
quote:Originally posted by jjinmo:quote:Keep your hands at your shoulder longer, then let your hips rotate fully.
In looking at various videos in the hitting section, do ya'll think if I used my lower body more and get better hip rotation that would help to fix this?
I think the hips are a result, not the cause.
jjinmo,
No argument with alot of what I've read.
I think you are on the right track in your thoughts about the lower body and hip rotation but how do you go about it? Personally, I would narrow the stance some (you ain't built like Pujols) as it takes alot ( I mean alot) of core and lower strength to get proper hip rotation with a stance as wide as yours. Too wide and a hitter can actually slow and even block hip rotation. Just try standing with varying width stances and find one that is wide enough thatt you are comfortable with yet allows fulll rotation. If you are completing hip rotation after contact, you're wasting energy. JMHO
No argument with alot of what I've read.
I think you are on the right track in your thoughts about the lower body and hip rotation but how do you go about it? Personally, I would narrow the stance some (you ain't built like Pujols) as it takes alot ( I mean alot) of core and lower strength to get proper hip rotation with a stance as wide as yours. Too wide and a hitter can actually slow and even block hip rotation. Just try standing with varying width stances and find one that is wide enough thatt you are comfortable with yet allows fulll rotation. If you are completing hip rotation after contact, you're wasting energy. JMHO
quote:Originally posted by SultanofSwat:quote:Originally posted by Walawala:
Some of the best hitters, past and present, arm bar.
Can you give us a link where any (good) MLB player has arm bar at toe touch?quote:Most coaches make armbar seem like its more of a problem than it really is.
From Mankin (he's not talking about the Power V phase)quote:Extending a flexed elbow as you rotate will straighten out the hand-path and reduce bat-head acceleration.
Makes sense to me. I wouldn't recommend something that's guaranteed to reduce bat speed.
You can start by checking out the guy in your avatar. He was pretty good.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...qDtI&feature=related
This is what is meant by arm barring.My son used to have a real issue with it when learning the Epstein approach.He has since corrected the issue.(he was only 8 in this pic)
Notice how the lead arm straightens out at the beginning of the swing.
Arm barring is not the same as extension during the swing.
Not sure how anyone can look at Pujols and say he has ANY arm barring going on.
Notice how the lead arm straightens out at the beginning of the swing.
Arm barring is not the same as extension during the swing.
Not sure how anyone can look at Pujols and say he has ANY arm barring going on.
